fairfarmhand Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 We've run into a kind of a problem. It's not super serious, but it is something, that as we get her ready for college I think about. It's a "socialization" thing. My daughter is very friendly, Not in a flirtatious kind of way, but it's more that she doesn't treat guy friends any differently than she does girlfriends (unless she's talking about certain "female-only" topics. She wouldn't discuss underwear or periods or anything like that in front of her male friends, but would with girls-only) She will joke and tease the same way with males as she does females and, with her homeschooled guy friends, she doesn't feel weird at all about inviting guys over to ride horses or play games as friends. In our homeschool group, there's really no pairing off or dating (not necessarily the parents pushing this, the teens just like getting together in mixed gender groups without the pressure of pairing off) However, with my kids, there is this awkward social gap with most non-homeschooled kids. My dd forces herself to keep those other male friendships at an arm's length because she doesn't want others to get the idea that she's interested in a guy as a boyfriend. My dd isn't ready for a boyfriend or dating. (her words, not mine) She won't invite non-homeschooled guys over for a game night because she thinks that the girlfriends of these nice fellows will think she's coming on to their boyfriend and that the guys might get the wrong idea about it. When she says "just friends" she means it. So as we get ready for college, is this same weird dynamic going to play out there? Is she going to have to keep guys at arm's length? Her friend who graduated last year is running into this at college. Is she constantly going to have to clarify this for people? She goes to 4H events and gets so frustrated at this playing out over and over again. PS. I do realize that I am throwing out a whole lot of generalizations. It's not my intention to put people in boxes, this is just the way things have played out in our area in our social circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 My daughter who is a college sophomore does have some guy friends but she has been asked out and hit on many times in person or via Facebook, etc. She ignores FB friend requests from lots of guys at her school. Your daughter will probably have to be very direct. The friendliness will almost certainly be interpreted as flirting by many people. My daughter tells people, "I don't date" which is her own choice right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Well, I would tell her to be herself and not worry about it, but she does need to learn how to shut down advances. Some men take the vaguest of uncomfortable laughing to get away from them as encouragement. She needs to practice a bitch face to learn to shut down stuff immediately. My college roommate (petite blonde with long hair) spent her entire college career with that face. I thought RBF was genetic, but I'm pretty sure she developed hers with careful practice. :laugh: Jenna Marbles has a funny series of videos on this (though be warned, she uses profanity frequently). I think this is the first one: It's totally worth watching the others together. Another option that can work in a "nice" way (though you still have to get blatantly rude sometimes) is by making it clear something is inappropriate by teasing. The best explanation I have ever read on that is from a book called What Southern Women Know (that Every Woman Should). She has a whole section on shutting down men clearly while also not making them feel badly about it. I'm sorry, I can't quote, I loaned it to someone and never got it back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 When/if she does decide she wants to date, I think Amy Young's advice might be a good fit for her (Also tons of profanity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 She'll figure this out on her own. Her "people" will get it, "Not her people" won't. It's not necessarily a homeschool/socialization issue. Friends have been wanting to be more than friends since the beginning of time ;-) Ditto girlfriends drawing their own conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 It's not necessarily a homeschool/socialization issue. Friends have been wanting to be more than friends since the beginning of time ;-) Ditto girlfriends drawing their own conclusions. I know that. It's just played out like this in our area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carriede Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I think it's up to the guys. She can invite a guy friend and maybe his girlfriend to help declare her boundries. But if the guy knows hanging out with someone else will make his gf upset, that's on him, not your DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 This is just the way the world works. It is just another part of socialization that every single person has to deal with at some point in time. DD16 is an outgoing public school girl. Most of her friends are guys. She has had to tell almost every one of her guy friends at some point in time "sorry, dude just wanna be friends". My DD16 has surely had crushes on one or more of her guy friends at different times too, but never to the point of doing something about it. DD16 had a year and half relationship last year, so has a bit of experience in that area. I wouldn't invite over a boy that has a girlfriend, that is just asking for trouble. DD has a few guys friends that come over who have girl friends, but usually only in a group of other guys, and only if she was friends with the guy before he got a girlfriend. Then there is also 'how jealous' is the girlfriend issue....and it is just a can of worms that is best avoided. I know there are times that dd says something upfront to a guy if they are going to do a one-with-one event, just something short and sweet like 'hey, I just wanna be clear, that I am only interested in being friends". I think that texting makes this an easier thing to slip into a conversation. They guy can respond 'yeah, me too" or something else, but it puts it out there before a problem comes up. If your dd wants to invite over or hang out with guys, I don't see a problem with it. Just make sure she knows that many guys will possibly say something at some point in time, and she will just have to shut him down. No biggie. Just move on. There has only been one guy friend of my dd who gets a little hurt by dd not accepting his advances. They are very, very good friends, but he is the type who always is crushing on someone. If he has a girl he is interested in, then everything is fine, and they are great buds. When he is totally single and doesn't have anyone in his sights, then he starts crushing on dd again. She just knows to not spend much time with him, unless he is talking about another girl. LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caribbean Queen Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Is she going to have to keep guys at arm's length? Yes. Joking, teasing, being friendly, and inviting guys over with a plan to reject their advances is leading them on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingaway Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Yes. Joking, teasing, being friendly, and inviting guys over with a plan to reject their advances is leading them on. I don't get this. I think the joking, teasing, being friendly is called "being friendly" and not "leading them on". Is she supposed to treat all guys with formality? Ignore them? Act coldly? 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SporkUK Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I don't get this. I think the joking, teasing, being friendly is called "being friendly" and not "leading them on". Is she supposed to treat all guys with formality? Ignore them? Act coldly? :iagree: I would think being friendly is the basic way to treat friends, those one would like to be friends with and most people in general. Would a bisexual or pansexual person have to never joke or be friendly to anyone and keep everyone at arm's length to keep from 'leading them on'? It would be very lonely to have to keep everyone at arm's length in case they can't handle rejection - and I would hate for any of mine to blame someone else if they did not return their affections. That's just life which is far richer if we can be friendly with many and enjoy friendship for what it is - a wonderful relationship and connection with another person - rather than a stepping stone. If I found one of mine treating friendship like that, they'd need far more social skills lessons... Maybe if being friendly was more encouraged, then appreciating said friendships so such clarifications would be less needed, learning the difference between friendly and flirting and graciously accepting mistakes between rather than blaming others for 'leading them on' would be more common, and the OP's daughter would have a lot less stress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Yes. Joking, teasing, being friendly, and inviting guys over with a plan to reject their advances is leading them on. Oh, I don't agree. Being friendly is being friendly. You are allowed to have friends of the opposite gender. What do you do with your friends - you joke, you laugh, you tease, you play games, you hang out. What do you not do with your friends - you don't touch them inappropriately, you don't make suggestive comments, you don't kiss them, etc. There is a clear distinction (for me) about what is "leading on" someone and what is not. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Oh, I don't agree. Being friendly is being friendly. You are allowed to have friends of the opposite gender. What do you do with your friends - you joke, you laugh, you tease, you play games, you hang out. What do you not do with your friends - you don't touch them inappropriately, you don't make suggestive comments, you don't kiss them, etc. There is a clear distinction (for me) about what is "leading on" someone and what is not. Yeah, I have friends of both genders and cut up with all of them. It is never inappropriate humor, just good clean fun. I do the same with my brothers and my brothers in law. No one has ever thought I was leading anyone on by doing so. I like that my dd does the same. I don't want her to feel that she has to keep people at arms length. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Maybe we should define keep people at arm's length. I agree with not going out of my way to invite over someone that has a girlfriend. Group events with guys that you were friends with before they had gfs, maybe. One on one activities with guys? Most likely safer to avoid those with guys that have girlfriends. Even if everything remains platonic, it would probably just create trouble for one party or another. There are exceptions to this, of course. Especially if your dd was friends with the guy before he had a girlfriend and everyone is fine with the interactions. To be honest, whether it's college age or adult age, everyone has a different idea of what kind of opposite-sex relationships are okay! lol. Really, that's such a debatable gray area. Just invite the girlfriends over too and then she can make friends with them. Also, have her get the meal plan with breakfast & lunch in the dining hall for at least the first semester. Surprising how frequently friendships are formed over meals in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Yes. Joking, teasing, being friendly, and inviting guys over with a plan to reject their advances is leading them on. This is just so unfair to the OP's dd. That's not what she's doing. And, in fact, it works out fine for her longtime male homeschool friends. They don't get the wrong message because she's not giving the wrong message. People are allowed to be friendly, to make jokes, to invite others out. She doesn't have a plan. She's just not interested. If they were to get the wrong idea somehow, she would have to reject them. But that's life. People get the wrong idea sometimes even when your signals are pretty clear. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Yes. Joking, teasing, being friendly, and inviting guys over with a plan to reject their advances is leading them on. leading them on to what exactly? Just because a woman is friendly she is implying sex is being offered? I don't think so. If a young woman invites a young man over to her house to a game night that in no way implies that sex is being offered. I think most men know the difference, at least my son does, thank you very much. I find that insulting and demeaning to men. DS1's best friend is a girl. To say that because she jokes with him or teases him means that she is leading him on is an insult to her and to him. Men have more self control than that. They are smarter than that. And young men and young women can be friends. I am friends with men and it does not threaten or interfere with my relationship with my husband. He is friends with women and that is fine with me, because I know he is capable of treating women as people and his equal, not sex objects. And if she does 'have a plan' to reject their advances' that is called 'setting boundaries' not 'leading them on'. It means she may enjoy spending time with them but is not looking for a romantic relationship with them. She speaks up for herself and sets her boundaries and the world carries on. It happens. That is not 'leading them on',. Human interactions are not transactional. There is no promise of a more intimate relationship if she is friends with them. If they think there is, how is that her fault or responsibility? We can only be responsible for ourselves and our response to others, not for how they chose to respond. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I think it's really great that your daughter can just treat boys as friends and not be hung up on thinking of them differently all the time. One of my daughters is definitely this way. She is very social and treats everyone alike, boys and girls. Of course if a boy has a girlfriend, she is sensitive to that and how the girlfriend might read into things, and it sounds like your daughter is sensitive to that too. My daughter happens to like rock climbing and mountain climbing, so it's often her and the boys. She is fun and smart and pretty, and unfortunately boys do fall for her a lot and then she has to tell them no, she wants to be friends only, and the boys who can handle that remain her friends and the ones who can't, don't. She has lost some good friends that way and it frustrates her at times, but it doesn't change how she treats boys and I like that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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