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I own an older version of Jurgenson Geometry. I keep reading about others using a variety of online programs. Most are unaffordable for us, such as WHA. However, we could pay for Duke Tip. I am mostly worried about paying for it and my child hating it. But since everyone is using an outside program and this is my oldest child and I have several younger children, I don't have a ton of time to devote to teaching this. Although I am competent at teaching geometry. I used to be a secondary education math teacher and the last year I taught was maybe five years ago.  Time is simply a big issue here. Also, he wants to be an engineer or software developer eventually. He is not good with frustration. 

 

I had thought we might try out Jurgensen's Geometry and if we do not like it, switch to something else. I had kind of wondered by no one suggests Math U See for geometry. Should I just go forward and purchase the Duke Tip program? We already started the geometry this week. Of course no problems yet. 

 

Also, I would not mind reviews of other programs if you have something else you prefer or that has worked for you.

 

Edited to add: Saxon. Saxon Geometry was the other one I saw. But I already picked up from the used book store (called Half Priced Books) Forester's Algebra and the second Forester's Algebra book. 

 

Edited to add: Duke Tip dropped their program for geometry.

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Did they? Wow. I got it (the Duke TIP geometry stuff) this spring to use this fall. DD just started it this week, so we are barely going on it.

There was someone who said (in an old thread) that the DVD teacher lecture (one per chapter) was pretty boring. That is true as I watched the first chapter with DD.

However, you only have to do one of those lectures per chapter, so it isn't like you can't handle it.

 

I think you should try Jurgensen's Geometry because you have it. It is a solid book. Just help him decide which problems to do (odds, A, B, and some of the C problems? A, B, and all of the C problems?) and be ready to help him when he struggles. I'd definitely sit down & help him put together his notebook with a section for definitions and a section for theorems, postulates, etc. 

 

Good luck!

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Did they? Wow. I got it (the Duke TIP geometry stuff) this spring to use this fall. DD just started it this week, so we are barely going on it.

There was someone who said (in an old thread) that the DVD teacher lecture (one per chapter) was pretty boring. That is true as I watched the first chapter with DD.

However, you only have to do one of those lectures per chapter, so it isn't like you can't handle it.

 

I think you should try Jurgensen's Geometry because you have it. It is a solid book. Just help him decide which problems to do (odds, A, B, and some of the C problems? A, B, and all of the C problems?) and be ready to help him when he struggles. I'd definitely sit down & help him put together his notebook with a section for definitions and a section for theorems, postulates, etc. 

 

Good luck!

If I cannot get a copy of the syllabus and whatever else from Duke Tip, and they say it is ok..could I see a copy of yours? 

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Well, I don't know if you would find $185. too much money, but we just started using Jurgensen with Seton Home Study School and I am already really pleased with the the assignment structure and online help. I actually came here today (I don't post much) just to leave a review of this program! I can leave the review here or I can put it in an old Geometry discussion from the spring - I don't want to clutter up your thread!

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  • 3 months later...

Did Duke Tip drop their geometry? Ack. That was my plan. I went to look at Seton (we still have a year), but I only see the book, no support materials.

They are just re-vamping it. I think they intend to re-release it.

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Well, I don't know if you would find $185. too much money, but we just started using Jurgensen with Seton Home Study School and I am already really pleased with the the assignment structure and online help. I actually came here today (I don't post much) just to leave a review of this program! I can leave the review here or I can put it in an old Geometry discussion from the spring - I don't want to clutter up your thread!

I would love to see your review. Please let us know by linking it here so we can find it. Thanks!
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I would love to see your review. Please let us know by linking it here so we can find it. Thanks!

 

Hopefully, she'll update it. But, here it is.

 

I'll post a review of the previously sold version of Duke TIP's Jurgensen program that dd#1 is using this year.

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This year, DD#1 is using Duke TIP's geometry program that uses Jurgensen. They sell you two books and a CD-ROM. One of the books has a syllabus designed for the kid who is going through the program to use. The other one contains quizzes for most chapters & several cumulative unit tests. The solutions/answers for those are also in this book. They call it a "mentor guide."

 

- They assign very few of the classroom exercises and none of the hardest "C" problems in the text.

- If they assigned an even numbered problem, they list the answer in the syllabus since it isn't in the back of the book.

- There are also tips, suggestions, and hints given in the syllabus for specific problems.

- Almost every chapter starts with watching a (rather boring) interactive video on the CD-ROM. You have to pass the interactive video sections to get to further parts of the video, including the quizzes at the end of most chapters.

- You don't have to use the CD-ROM at all, but that makes the TIP stuff very expensive for just a list of problems & their chapter quizzes which are mostly proofs or their unit tests (combo of proofs with other types of problems).

- The quizzes on the CD-ROM aren't meant to be graded. They give you several chances to fix your answers if you get them wrong. (DD hasn't run out of chances yet, so I don't know how many exactly.) It is meant as a last-minute "did you understand the major points of the chapter you just finished" exercise before you take the graded proof quiz that is included in the mentor manual.

 

DD doesn't enjoy geometry. I spend at least one day a week (some weeks is everyday) explaining or reviewing something she's not understood. We've watched a couple of videos JadeOrchidSong linked in a past thread to help her to understand how to study the material in the text before doing the problems. I tweaked the TIP syllabus to add problems (more from sections B & C), algebra review, chapter review, and material from the back of the book (logic, circuits) that isn't ever assigned. The proof quizzes aren't any more difficult than the proofs in the chapter. She averages about 90% on the quizzes, but struggles some with the unit reviews. This is typical for her since she's always used & needs a spiral math program. So, if she hasn't used a theorem in awhile, it is gone from her head. (I've built in more on-going cumulative review since she tanked the first unit exam.)

 

Edited to add:  

- You have to do all the proof grading yourself. There are sometimes suggestions for other ways to solve a problem on the quizzes/tests, but not often. You really need to know your geometry & keep up with the student's work in order to be flexible with grading the proofs. Or, you have to have your kid explain why they did it the way they did it & double check with the book. I'm comfortable with this & have the time to keep up, but wanted to point that out to others who may not be.

Edited by RootAnn
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Well, I don't know if you would find $185. too much money, but we just started using Jurgensen with Seton Home Study School and I am already really pleased with the the assignment structure and online help. I actually came here today (I don't post much) just to leave a review of this program! I can leave the review here or I can put it in an old Geometry discussion from the spring - I don't want to clutter up your thread!

I read your review in September that RootAnn linked. However, I would love to see an updated review after 4 months of use. Thanks!
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Updated review -

 

Still liking the program. My son can be both painstaking and a bit lazy, so he is moving through the course too slowly, but that is his issue. We've only needed to speak to the Seton teacher once. He was extremely helpful. But my son prefers to struggle with problems on his own and then, finally, run them past my husband. I think he is learning a lot by working things out on his own but I am concerned that he will not finish by August.

 

His first quarter average was an 88 and he is not at all motivated to bring it up!

 

We do like the text very much and the Seton program has been helpful (schedule and answer key, online helps, available teacher), but I think my son would do better with a teacher to hold him accountable to get a certain amount done every week. I have a hard time requiring him to work faster as sometimes he is just stuck, kwim? But I am sure that there are times that he could use an extra push - I just can't always tell when!

 

I am happy to answer any specific questions!

 

 

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I had kind of wondered by no one suggests Math U See for geometry. 

 

I have reviewed MUS geometry extensively because I actually bought it intending to use it as a warm up for a more rigorous geometry course for my younger son (I didn't end up using it).  I'm guessing that people don't suggest it because it is an extremely weak program.  I would only use it if my child absolutely could not get through any other program.  

 

That said, I do think that MUS Alpha-Zeta are solid (and I've used them all).

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Updated review -

 

Still liking the program. My son can be both painstaking and a bit lazy, so he is moving through the course too slowly, but that is his issue. We've only needed to speak to the Seton teacher once. He was extremely helpful. But my son prefers to struggle with problems on his own and then, finally, run them past my husband. I think he is learning a lot by working things out on his own but I am concerned that he will not finish by August.

 

His first quarter average was an 88 and he is not at all motivated to bring it up!

 

We do like the text very much and the Seton program has been helpful (schedule and answer key, online helps, available teacher), but I think my son would do better with a teacher to hold him accountable to get a certain amount done every week. I have a hard time requiring him to work faster as sometimes he is just stuck, kwim? But I am sure that there are times that he could use an extra push - I just can't always tell when!

 

I am happy to answer any specific questions!

 

LizaQ, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and the details about Seton's geometry program. It sounds like something I'd be interested in if I can get access to all the resources you've mentioned here and in other threads . . . such as the video tips and access to a tutor if needed for specific questions. I've been poking around Seton's website, and, so far, I haven't found where I can buy anything beyond just the textbook. Do you have to be fully enrolled with Seton to get access to it, I wonder? It's probably something obvious that I'm missing, but could you please post a link to where you were able to purchase the whole geometry "package"? Thank you!

 

Edited by TarynB
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I read your review in September that RootAnn linked. However, I would love to see an updated review after 4 months of use. Thanks!

I can update my review of Jurgensen's. We are liking it a lot! Chapter 4 had so many proofs, he hated it. So, I altered the assignments. I took away a bunch of proofs and added in extra of the computation problems. My son refuses to use the disk, which frustrates me. I get not liking the videos, but I wish he would at least try to take the tests. But, he is grounded from his computer right now, so it is ok. I will use Jurgenson's again. I know I spelled Jurgenson two different ways, but the book is not in front of me right now and I do not recall which way it goes, ha ha. 

Edited by Janeway
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I can update my review of Jurgensen's. We are liking it a lot! Chapter 4 had so many proofs, he hated it. So, I altered the assignments. I took away a bunch of proofs and added in extra of the computation problems. My son refuses to use the disk, which frustrates me. I get not liking the videos, but I wish he would at least try to take the tests. But, he is grounded from his computer right now, so it is ok. I will use Jurgenson's again. I know I spelled Jurgenson two different ways, but the book is not in front of me right now and I do not recall which way it goes, ha ha. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to share this. You mentioned your son not using the "disk" . . . would you mind sharing what "disk" (and perhaps other materials) you have to use alongside the text? Duke TIP's materials, Seton's, or something else? Thank you!

 

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<snip> This year, DD#1 is using Duke TIP's geometry program that uses Jurgensen. <snip>

 

RootAnn, wow, thanks for writing up such a thorough review.

 

I really wish Duke TIP had this available right now! I emailed them today to ask if/when they plan to re-introduce independent study geometry.

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Thanks for taking the time to share this. You mentioned your son not using the "disk" . . . would you mind sharing what "disk" (and perhaps other materials) you have to use alongside the text? Duke TIP's materials, Seton's, or something else? Thank you!

 

Duke Tip.

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Thanks for taking the time to share this. You mentioned your son not using the "disk" . . . would you mind sharing what "disk" (and perhaps other materials) you have to use alongside the text? Duke TIP's materials, Seton's, or something else? Thank you!

 

The disc she references is the same as the CD-ROM I reference in my review.

 

Janeway - Do you give him the quizzes/tests in the Mentor manual? 

 

For everyone else - The actual text has chapter tests in the book, but we don't use them. If I didn't have the Duke TIP stuff, I would use them. The 'test' on the CD-ROM isn't something you grade since it has them go back to redo the ones they got wrong. If they quit the program & then reload it, it changes the questions (numbers, order, not necessarily the structure of the questions) on that particular quiz so you can't just repeat it exactly. DD found at least one question that didn't have a proper answer and possibly one other that wasn't correct, but it is a good reinforcing activity before the chapter proofs (provided in the mentor manual).

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Please share what you find out.

 

I asked Duke TIP if/when they plan to re-introduce independent-study geometry. This morning I received this response: "We had to pull Geometry course because of problems customers were having with the CD. I am sorry that we can no longer offer this course to our customers. I am not sure what the plans are for new course right now, but it is possible that we could offer Geometry.  Most of our new courses are online now."

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I asked Duke TIP if/when they plan to re-introduce independent-study geometry. This morning I received this response: "We had to pull Geometry course because of problems customers were having with the CD. I am sorry that we can no longer offer this course to our customers. I am not sure what the plans are for new course right now, but it is possible that we could offer Geometry.  Most of our new courses are online now."

 

 

Good to know. I think Memoria Press is planning to offer it as a package, but it's at least a year out. I think we're going to do Algebra 2 first, at this rate.

 

How does Seton's work? I don't see anything but the book on their site.

 

Other Jurgensen study-at-home options?

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You can use the videos that were linked previously in another thread. Check the review thread I linked earlier. We tried to find other options.

 

You would need to figure out what to assign - you could do all of the odds or some of the odds. There are A, B, and C sections. The A sections are the easiest & the C problems are more 'challenge' ones - although not as challenging as AoPS challenge ones, I would think. You'd have to do all the grading of proofs yourself.

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You can use the videos that were linked previously in another thread. Check the review thread I linked earlier. We tried to find other options.

 

You would need to figure out what to assign - you could do all of the odds or some of the odds. There are A, B, and C sections. The A sections are the easiest & the C problems are more 'challenge' ones - although not as challenging as AoPS challenge ones, I would think. You'd have to do all the grading of proofs yourself.

 

Thanks.

 

I thought there was some dispute about if those videos actually lined up with that particular text. I think I've gone cross-eyed trying to keep what I read where straight, though. Grading without any guidance is something of a no-go for me (time is an issue).

 

Wish DO had picked Jurgensen instead of Jacobs.

 

ETA Duh... I have the book from the library right now. The chapter sections do line up... Very nice!

Edited by elladarcy
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LizaQ, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and the details about Seton's geometry program. It sounds like something I'd be interested in if I can get access to all the resources you've mentioned here and in other threads . . . such as the video tips and access to a tutor if needed for specific questions. I've been poking around Seton's website, and, so far, I haven't found where I can buy anything beyond just the textbook. Do you have to be fully enrolled with Seton to get access to it, I wonder? It's probably something obvious that I'm missing, but could you please post a link to where you were able to purchase the whole geometry "package"? Thank you!

 

 

http://www.setonhome.org/tuition/

 

If you scroll down, you'll see that the single course fee for a high school course is $185. I enrolled over the phone. They explained how it worked and I paid by credit card. When I log in to Seton, I can access the short videos for each chapter (that my son thinks he doesn't need), the classroom exercise answer keys, and charts.

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