Tsutsie Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 ...but I can't let go of our "great" workbooks and subject areas. I wish I could just trust myself to provide exactly what my kids need at the exact time - precisely in the areas they are interested in and yearning to learn more on/about. I have tried this before, but I tend to go overboard and completely put them off it. I wish I could let go of history and reading comprehension and spelling and vocabulary and critical thinking and just let them explore topics as they arise, in whichever form they choose. I wish I could make peace with my son watching hours of science experiment videos, but never actually doing any of them for himself. I want to do math, writing and latin - and then just follow along the trails they pull me onto. The problem is, I'm not sure they will. Maybe they will just sit around and play video games all day or simply stare into space. My son, especially, is not a do-er. He does not play by himself at all, he never has. His "toys" are his friends. He does not make or tinker. How do a marry a rich, fullfilling school experience with allowing my kids to follow their own interests (whatever they may be?) Right now we work from 8am to 3pm, sometimes even longer. My kids don't complain, but I want something different for them. I want them to be inspired to the point of driving themselves - so different to completing one page in many workbooks. I'm not expressing myself well, but maybe someone out there gets what I'm trying to say. (DS10.5, DD8 - we have been using TWTM all along.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalusignan Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Hmmmm. Just my thoughts. I'm not in your home and don't know your kids, but 8-3 is a loooong time. It really just sounds like you are burnt out on "doing school" and want more natural discovery and relaxed pace. Going toward unschooling from 8-3 every day sounds like a drastic change. Maybe take a break for a week or two? Maybe do a unit study? Maybe do unit studies for the whole year? Do ALL the science experiments and just focus on making it fun - not just for them, but for you too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purduemeche Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 On a classical education message board, you are unlikely to find many people who will encourage you to be an unschooler. Instead, focus on only a few subjects well (the seven liberal arts) and leave the rest by the wayside. This will cut down the time you are "doing school" and hopefully give everyone a break. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I am not an unschooler but I am a Charlotte Masoner. I would lose the very long school day and would go for shorter lessons. I would make the lessons more hands-on. If your son likes to look at YouTubes of science experiments, great. Lose the child's textbook (but keep one for yourself as a guide) and find YouTubes on what you are learning. But don't forget to have the kids do some hands-on experiments as well. Lose the workbooks - go for living books. For rabbit trails, I kept my own little notebook. As we read aloud in history, science etc. I would write down the kid's questions. Then we would have a "rabbit trail Friday" where we would hop down all of those rabbit trails looking to see where they went. (BTW - rabbit trail Fridays were fun but a bit exhausting.) Add in handcrafts and DIY projects (I loved DIY.org for my kids when they were that age.) One word of advice though.. Make sure that your own vision of how to learn doesn't replace how your kids learn best. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 How do a marry a rich, fullfilling school experience with allowing my kids to follow their own interests (whatever they may be?) I think you can have the best of both worlds if you limit your children's formal schooling time. This can be done with a combination of careful planning for efficiency, eliminating work that doesn't really move learning along, and not taking breaks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 DS10 has a higher load this year as a 6th grader. Previously what we do is Math - 1hr LA - 1hr Foreign language - 30 mins Music - 30mins So both kids do 3hrs or less of work and then its child led. If they want to spend a few hours watching videos/documentaries or build machines out of Lego technic parts or knitting or drawing, it is fine by me. I am too schooly to be an unschooler but I want to make sure my kids have time to explore hobbies/interests/passions. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeriJ Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 We limit formal school time to a few hours in the morning and streamline the basics which frees us up to be unschoolers for most other subjects. (at least for 5th and under) My siggy might seem otherwise, but really, we use most of those materials in a very informal, flexible, "unschooly" type way. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 When you say the kids work from 8-3, I am sure you are including lunch and a few snack breaks and such. :) Maybe you should take a year, and explore! One year won't hurt anything and it might help you decide which type of homeschooler you are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 ...but I can't let go of our "great" workbooks and subject areas. I wish I could just trust myself to provide exactly what my kids need at the exact time - precisely in the areas they are interested in and yearning to learn more on/about. I have tried this before, but I tend to go overboard and completely put them off it. I wish I could let go of history and reading comprehension and spelling and vocabulary and critical thinking and just let them explore topics as they arise, in whichever form they choose. I wish I could make peace with my son watching hours of science experiment videos, but never actually doing any of them for himself. I want to do math, writing and latin - and then just follow along the trails they pull me onto. The problem is, I'm not sure they will. Maybe they will just sit around and play video games all day or simply stare into space. My son, especially, is not a do-er. He does not play by himself at all, he never has. His "toys" are his friends. He does not make or tinker. How do a marry a rich, fullfilling school experience with allowing my kids to follow their own interests (whatever they may be?) Right now we work from 8am to 3pm, sometimes even longer. My kids don't complain, but I want something different for them. I want them to be inspired to the point of driving themselves - so different to completing one page in many workbooks. I'm not expressing myself well, but maybe someone out there gets what I'm trying to say. (DS10.5, DD8 - we have been using TWTM all along.) Four things (bolded) stand out to me from your post: 1. Your children's ages. They are young, but not so young that it feels as though school can be play-based, right? I know the feeling! In fact, we have kids the same ages, except that my twins are 8.5 and there are, of course, two of them. Also, I have all girls. But it's funny that you posted this "I really want to unschool" sentiment, because I've had the same feeling all summer, going into this school year. More about that in a minute. 2. I wish I could let go... combined with... 3. Right now we work from 8 am to 3 pm. No wonder you want to let go! I think maybe you need to. We end up achieving a ton of work at a good level by the time we're "done" with the year, but there is no way we are "doing school" for seven hours (more or less) a day at these ages. That really is too much, IMO, and could lead you all to burnout. 4. Sit around and play video games. Just a quick thought about this -- if you change things up, it doesn't have to be "all or nothing," does it? I mean, if you shorten your school days to allow for more free time, just have some parameters on how you define it. "You are free to read, do art, build, exercise, write, hang out, play (real/board) games, etc., but no screen time." It's up to you, if you initiate a shift in the routine, to establish healthy habits in the new routine. What's the vision you and your children can share for the next few years? Discuss this with them. This is what I ended up doing this summer. I was sensing that my girls are now at the perfect age for the next few years to break out of our school-at-home mode. It occurred to me that the work I had beautifully lined up for this school year was really about 15 months' worth of work, LOL. Seriously. Along with that, we have some plans during the year to take a month off (travel), we like to take some time off around Christmas, and we like to have some time off during the summer. Sigh. So, I thought, "What if we just work our way through at a decent pace without trying to finish by Date X? All the kids are right on-track for everything. All the work is good and solid stuff. The only piece I'd like to move at the normal pace would be Math, but we never have to struggle for that. So.... why not?" The more I thought about this, the better I liked it. On the one hand, we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and leave strong academics behind. We plod with them, but it doesn't feel frantic and tedious. On the other hand, we give the rest of life some time. We balance things as we need them to be. If we need to exercise (and we do!), then we exercise. If we need to help my parents in practical ways (and we do!), then that's what we do. If we need to buckle down and get some academics mastered (and we will need to do this), then we will do that, also. If you have your work lined up, and it's good stuff, why not just keep Math (and maybe Music or a language?) going at the usual pace, but let all the rest get done (with integrity) according to the pace that is reasonable for this season? For me, this was a subtle, but meaningful shift in my thinking. I suppose the best way I can explain it is to say that I had been too course- or curriculum-driven. Finish the lessons, number by number, move through the levels, one per year, and so on. The change in my thinking is that here before me is a real, whole child. Does she clean up her room completely, or is she shoving things under the bed? Behold, the mess under the bed. To deal with this patiently, we need to take the time. Pull it out, talk about it, sort through, establish order. Here before me is another real, whole child. What is she asking, really, with her seemingly endless need to snuggle? Am I too much "Teacher," and not enough "Mommy?" I will take off my teacher hat for a moment and see. Hugs and kisses. Yes, she needs more mothering, and it has to come from me. There is no other mother. This nurturing takes time. And yet another real, whole child. She is coughing, she is tired, she has her father's flu. I make her herbal tea, do all things healing and soothing, tuck her into bed. She is sleeping. Her body rests. I just reached a point this summer -- and we weren't even "doing school," except for Math -- I don't know... it's hard to explain. I kept asking my husband, "Honey, what is wrong with me?" I know he was thinking, "Where do I start?" I like to teach my girls, we love homeschooling. Yet here I was, dreading another year of the same thing, and at the same time, excited to begin again! Arggggggh! It was frustrating, and was almost exactly what you've posted (except we've never done such long days). For me, it was a question of how do you fit in all the other things that are really important in life? Things like passion and interests and hobbies and helping others? Things like habits and health and soul-development? Teacher training? Travel? Chores? Practical skills? Relationships? Wisdom? Irretrievable things, like time with grandparents who will not always be here? The answer that came to me was to put the academic piece in its place. You know when you make a soup, and you have all the ingredients chopped and in the pot? Then you put that pot on the back burner and simmer it. You are still tending the soup. You still pay attention to it. You are still cooking the soup, but you are actively doing other things while it simmers. That is how I came to see the academics in our homeschool. We are in a good place with the girls' skills in many things. We can put that "pot" on the back burner to simmer, give it an occasional stir, and do other things. What if you took this year's line-up and stretched it? What if it took until next December? If you simply continued with the writing, grammar, spelling, history, science, and so on -- wouldn't your children build skills and knowledge? I think it's so easy to get in a panic that if we don't keep up a certain pace, our children will fall behind. This summer I thought about the overlap between "elementary" grades (K through about 4th) and "middle school" grades (about 5th through 8th), and also the overlap between middle school and high school. I suppose you could also say that, for some college students who need remedial courses, there is an overlap between high school and college! What I'm saying is this -- you have time to get there. What are the skills you want your children to have before they begin high school? If they are well on their way, then you have time to cut the pace down. We are not going to unschool, but we are going to take time to smell the roses, so to speak. There is a good, solid, rich and meaningful line-up for us -- which we will do -- and there is a world to explore, too. I think that these years (8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) with our children are the perfect time for both. HTH. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 How many workbooks are we talking about here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsutsie Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 I'm counting 26 items on my son's schedule. Some of it is not every day and some of it is me reading to them. Many are quick 5 minute tasks, some are online or dvd based. Some are textbooks, some are "living books" or encyclopedias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 We limit formal school time to a few hours in the morning and streamline the basics which frees us up to be unschoolers for most other subjects. (at least for 5th and under) My siggy might seem otherwise, but really, we use most of those materials in a very informal, flexible, "unschooly" type way. This is what we do, too -- until about middle school. Dd9 and dd7 usually do about 1 1/2 hours of the basics -- math and language. Dd7 loves geography, so we've been doing quite a bit of that. I let her lead us to what country she wants to study and when (and we bring dd9 along for the ride.) Dd9 loves to write and does much of that on her own. I almost never assign writing to her because she does so much of it on her own. I want her to continue to love it and not consider it a chore. I've been doing read-alouds sometimes during lunch (it's hard to find books that dd5 and dd13 will both like). Another thing I've been doing at lunch is flash cards. We've been learning about states, presidents, Spanish vocabulary, planets -- all sorts of things that I want them to know that they may not necessarily choose to study on their own. (They're kind of a captive audience while they're eating...) All this to say that I think that you can achieve most of your goals -- keep your curriculum and use it with unschooling tendencies. :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I'm counting 26 items on my son's schedule. Some of it is not every day and some of it is me reading to them. Many are quick 5 minute tasks, some are online or dvd based. Some are textbooks, some are "living books" or encyclopedias. We were posting at the same time. I think that the 5 minute tasks can be incorporated into lunch time as I was suggesting. If you have anything that is on CD you could maybe put that in while you're in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 ...but I can't let go of our "great" workbooks and subject areas.I wish I could just trust myself to provide exactly what my kids need at the exact time - precisely in the areas they are interested in and yearning to learn more on/about. I have tried this before, but I tend to go overboard and completely put them off it.I wish I could let go of history and reading comprehension and spelling and vocabulary and critical thinking and just let them explore topics as they arise, in whichever form they choose.I wish I could make peace with my son watching hours of science experiment videos, but never actually doing any of them for himself.I want to do math, writing and latin - and then just follow along the trails they pull me onto. The problem is, I'm not sure they will. Maybe they will just sit around and play video games all day or simply stare into space. My son, especially, is not a do-er. He does not play by himself at all, he never has. His "toys" are his friends. He does not make or tinker.How do a marry a rich, fullfilling school experience with allowing my kids to follow their own interests (whatever they may be?)Right now we work from 8am to 3pm, sometimes even longer. My kids don't complain, but I want something different for them. I want them to be inspired to the point of driving themselves - so different to completing one page in many workbooks.I'm not expressing myself well, but maybe someone out there gets what I'm trying to say.(DS10.5, DD8 - we have been using TWTM all along.) We have been having directed school in the mornings and student initiated/unschool approach afternoons.It can be hard to accept that the afternoon session may be all reading sci-fi, or all PE, but I am working on letting it be what it is. Mornings are long enough to do everything I think needs to be done as basics that would perhaps otherwise not be done, leaving plenty of time for creative projects or even doing nothing much in the afternoon. Staring into space is fine during the afternoon part of the day; video games are not allowed though unless educational. You could probably do math, 1 hr, Latin, 1 hr or less, writing 1/2 hour or less, and be done by 11 or 11:30 AM even with some breaks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndGenHomeschooler Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I'd suggest cutting the school time way back for kids that age. That will leave them time for the unschooling sorts of things you're looking for. We do formal school work from 8am-noon. I alternate subjects and let some do double duty. Writing for example is nearly always tied to history, science, Bible, or literature. Literature often ties to history. Some subjects are alternated throughout the week, others monthly. Afternoons are free. I don't require chores, school work, or anything else - unless morning chores weren't done or there was extreme time-wasting during school time. We also keep all screens off. The first couple of days of trying this they couldn't figure out what to do with their hours of time in the afternoons. They soon figured it out and love the time. They do all sorts of things - some resembling school, some not. It feels very balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 ...but I can't let go of our "great" workbooks and subject areas. I wish I could just trust myself to provide exactly what my kids need at the exact time - precisely in the areas they are interested in and yearning to learn more on/about. I have tried this before, but I tend to go overboard and completely put them off it. I wish I could let go of history and reading comprehension and spelling and vocabulary and critical thinking and just let them explore topics as they arise, in whichever form they choose. I wish I could make peace with my son watching hours of science experiment videos, but never actually doing any of them for himself. I want to do math, writing and latin - and then just follow along the trails they pull me onto. The problem is, I'm not sure they will. Maybe they will just sit around and play video games all day or simply stare into space. My son, especially, is not a do-er. He does not play by himself at all, he never has. His "toys" are his friends. He does not make or tinker. How do a marry a rich, fullfilling school experience with allowing my kids to follow their own interests (whatever they may be?) Right now we work from 8am to 3pm, sometimes even longer. My kids don't complain, but I want something different for them. I want them to be inspired to the point of driving themselves - so different to completing one page in many workbooks. I'm not expressing myself well, but maybe someone out there gets what I'm trying to say. (DS10.5, DD8 - we have been using TWTM all along.) You should read John Holt's books, all of them, because then you'd understand that as an unschooler, you wouldn't be trying to provide exactly what your dc need at the exact time, precisely in the areas they are interested in and yearning to learn more about. Then you'd be able to let go of reading comprehension and spelling and whatnot and let the dc explore...stuff, not "topics as they arise." They will probably not come up with trails on their own that they will pull you into because you are keeping them busy with your own trails 8 to 3. In fact, you might be expecting more of unschooling than is reasonable. Not all unschooled children find fascinating, involved, complicated trails of their own. Your reading list: How Children Learn, How Children Fail, Instead of Education, What do I do on Monday?, and, finally, Teach Your Own. And if you can get the earliest copies of "Growing Without School," that would be even better. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGirlAcademy Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 What has worked for us is to have fully scheduled school for 3-6weeks. Then we have a week where she is responsible to filling her days. I always have her do one math lesson. I try to schedule these unschooled weeks on short weeks which kind of disrupt our normal scheduled any way. During our regular schedule, if she comes up with ideas that she wants to explore, crafts, projects, or books she wants to read, she writes them done on a to do list. We find the list invaluable because a lot of the times during our unschooled week we have already forgotten. I also have a crate of "fun" educational material for her to choose from if she likes. Also, she has to run her projects through me first, and as long as she can convince me it has some educational merit, it's a go. If she doesn't have anything on her to do list, or nothing looks appealing, then we make a trip to the library for some inspiration. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I want to do math, writing and latin - and then just follow along the trails they pull me onto. The problem is, I'm not sure they will. Maybe they will just sit around and play video games all day or simply stare into space. My son, especially, is not a do-er. He does not play by himself at all, he never has. His "toys" are his friends. He does not make or tinker. 30-40 minutes of math 30-40 minutes of Latin 30 minutes free-writing (Ã la Bravewriter) minimum 1 hr of reading (assigned or free choice, self-reading or read aloud) Provide plenty of books, documentaries, art materials, options for nature study, field trips, museum visits, library events, etc. Have a "no video games or TV until after dinner" rule. It may take a few weeks to get the hang of it, but eventually they'll start finding and following interests. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 If you are having trouble letting some of it go you could pick one content subject to release. So for science (or history) put the workbooks aside and let then do what they want. Reevaluate at the new year and see what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I agree that 8-3 is a long time. Honestly - we definitely identify as school-at-home homeschoolers, and with our kiddos (DD14 - dyslexic and still relies on me in almost every subject; DS6 - struggling reader/dyslexia-suspected; and DS3 - our adorable terror) we really only work until 1 (and not all the kids work that long). Can you shave down and not do every subject every day? Honestly, I'm not one who will encourage you to unschool. If you feel a hesitation regarding your own children... well, you know them best. My children (while bright, wonderful, incredible little creatures) are NOT motivated enough that they would do anything other than build, draw, and play. There are some who would suggest that, at least at age 6, that is all that is needed - I'm not one of them. Some kids can take a bite of a small something and it will lead to amazing rabbit trails and beautiful learning takes place - others just don't. Or, rather, they don't in the areas that you want to cover. :) ETA: I would totally suggest that you could drop any formal science/history with your 8 year old for a year or so, though... or maybe just go lit-based in the sense that every day there is a read aloud, and it rotates between history and science. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Unschooling is not a suitable choice for us, but there are periods where I lay out all the subjects/resources I'm willing to administer and dd picks what she feels like doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 At those ages I would definitely want to be finished school (aside from perhaps some silent reading which I personally would leave until evening, or an art/science project or something) by lunch. The transition of lunch and then being free to do whatever after lunch can be motivating and you might be suprised what the kids come up with. I would ban screen-time in the afternoons, make them do something constructive or active. But, 8 till 3 and sometimes longer? That is a high school time schedule in my mind, not an elementary one. I think you may feel better about your feelings for unschooling if you just cut back your formal schooling and gave the kids time to do things a bit more. There are lots of good things out there, we could fill our days to the last minute with good things and still not do it all, you cannot do it all. But you can identify, and do, the great things for your family. Also consider timesaving techniques. Do science one day, history the next, alternating instead of both every day. Not having to stop, change gears and remember where you were at the day before 10 times throughout the day saves a LOT of time. In fact, I'd even consider doing science one week and history the next week. Do all of your art in a chunk on one day instead of a bit each afternoon. And merge those little things into a routine, like a morning basket or 'stuff to do while eating lunch'. And, in my personal experience, kids are more likely to go on a rabbit trail from focused time. If I spent an hour learning about frogs, im more likely to go on a rabbit trail about frogs than if I spent 20 minutes on frogs and 20 minutes on ancient rome and 20 mins on picasso or whatever your schedule is. Doing too many different things in a day overwhelms the mind and none of it gets truly explored, or retained, in my personal opinion. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiof5 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Unschooling is not suitable for us either. I like the suggestions for alternating, or working through stuff at a decent pace. Years ago our oldest attended an "interest based" school for a couple years. For her it was a recipe for disaster... much learning in the few areas/activities she liked, but overall she didn't do so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I'll preface by saying I cannot imagine loving a workbook. ;) I will also say I cannot imagine being an unschooler. My kids have very strong academic educations, but their days are focused on building skills, not factoids. I parent and teach with a focus on creating an environment which encourages high levels of cognitive development, not focused on just stuffing in lots of knowledge. Obviously, we want our children to have knowledge, but we also want our children to learn to think and create, puzzle and problem solve. Those skills take time, unstructured time, to discover independently. The newest educational craze is project-based education, but kids solving problems creatively has existed since the beginning of time (it was called being left alone to build, construct, explore, make mistakes, figure it out, make it work, lots of self-initiated trial and error.) Solving without guidance vs. guided takes things to a whole new cognitive level. My kids' academic loads grow with them. Assuming that your kids are in 3rd and 5th, they would have days that were 3-3 1/2 and 5- 5 1/2 hrs long respectively. Third looks something like this: Math 45 mins Spelling 15 mins Writing 30 mins (grammar is taught in the context of writing) Reading 30 mins History 30 mins reading or discussing with me (not a textbook) Science 30 mins reading or discussing with me (not a textbook) 5th grade Math 45-60 Writing: 45 mins mins (grammar is also taught in the context of writing). Assignments relate to science and history. Spelling 15 mins Reading: 60mins Science: 45-60mins reading (not a textbook) History: 45-60 mins reading (not a textbook) Maybe a foreign language (depends on the strength of the student. If they are solid globally, yes. If they are lopsided or struggling in any major skill area (math, spelling, reading, writing), those have higher priority.) Fwiw, I am probably of minority opinion, but I think Latin young is not the best approach. Latin when they have a strong understanding of grammar and can work grammatically through a complex Latin sentence makes Latin progression fairly rapid in progression. Latin vocabulary and simple sentences can be mastered in much less time when they are older. I have kids who have taken 5 yrs of higher level Latin, so I am making my observations from that end.) I collaborate with my children to develop science and history courses around their interests. Fwiw, my adult and teenage children have reached high levels of academic success (chemE, physics, multiple foreign languages, etc). I would read articles on how higher level critical thinking skills are developed, Bloom's taxonomy, and how imagination fosters creative problem solving. None of those are accomplished through workbooks and sitting in seats. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xixstar Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I love the unschooling philosophy but discovered that it isn't congruent with my personality and that was a recipe for disaster. I am just too order driven and check off the things and feel like I am following a plan to have enough faith to let unschooling bloom successfully. I tried it for a couple years with my oldest and constantly felt such stresss about school, even while my oldest was doing it rather successfully. So i went from unschooling to more rigorous classical with my littles and some friends commented on quite a turn around but I am far happier with our progress and path now. It was a good lesson in learning to really assess my personal skills and tolerances instead of just focusing on ideal philosophies and I still admire those that make it work successfully in their lives. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I love the idea of unschooling and have seen people who seem, from the outside, to be doing a wonderful job at it. They have curious, motivated children who are passionate about something. Robotics, horses, writing, something. Or able to move from one topic to the next, studying it in depth till his curiosity is satisfied. That's not my kids. Sure, one loves to write and the other is good at math... But the few times I've given them freedom to learn what and how they wanted, they sat around at a loss, not wanting to do anything. Even offering input and guidance was no good. If I gave them total freedom, they would watch tv and play video games all day. I know, because that's what their summer looked like, even while I urged them to read a book without pictures (they're into manga) or get ahead on the prealgebra we were supposed to be working on. I feel like I'm ragging on my kids for being lazy, which I guess I am. :) But my point is that unschooling just isn't right for all kids. My 12 year old is at an age where we sit down and plan her school year together and she has a high level of input. In fact, she actually gets whatever she wants in terms of school. But her requests are reasonable. She knows she needs to study math and history and writing and so on. She picks her classes at co-op and we chose online classes together. She picked the language she wants to study for the next five years. Homeschooling isn't a battle with her because this is what she wants to be doing and we're doing it how she wants to be doing it. If that makes sense. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 My ideal school would be a blend between Montessori, Waldorf, Charlotte Mason and unschooling. :) A time each day restricted to certain materials, well made, beautiful, nature-inspired...and a child who would flit between them at his own leisure. In reality, we achieve half that. :laugh: I set aside 8-3 for no tv/no electronics unless it's needed for learning. The rest of the home is open to use - the yard, toys, books. I have no problem strewing interesting things in the field of the wee child (like a skipping rope appearing during our reading of The Secret Garden) or asking him to join me in things I want him to do. I set aside bits of time for lessons, 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there, and stop when the quality is no longer there. Some days, yeah, it's play nearly all day. I wish, WISH, I had a child who was an ideal unschooler. That self motivation would be awesome. Eh, I'm just happy there are some days I can find a balance of what I want and what he needs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 What has worked for us is to have fully scheduled school for 3-6weeks. Then we have a week where she is responsible to filling her days. I always have her do one math lesson. I try to schedule these unschooled weeks on short weeks which kind of disrupt our normal scheduled any way. During our regular schedule, if she comes up with ideas that she wants to explore, crafts, projects, or books she wants to read, she writes them done on a to do list. We find the list invaluable because a lot of the times during our unschooled week we have already forgotten. I also have a crate of "fun" educational material for her to choose from if she likes. Also, she has to run her projects through me first, and as long as she can convince me it has some educational merit, it's a go. If she doesn't have anything on her to do list, or nothing looks appealing, then we make a trip to the library for some inspiration. 30-40 minutes of math 30-40 minutes of Latin 30 minutes free-writing (Ã la Bravewriter) minimum 1 hr of reading (assigned or free choice, self-reading or read aloud) Provide plenty of books, documentaries, art materials, options for nature study, field trips, museum visits, library events, etc. Have a "no video games or TV until after dinner" rule. It may take a few weeks to get the hang of it, but eventually they'll start finding and following interests. Lots of good thoughts, I gravitate towards these ideas above, it doesn't have to be all or nothing, decide what are your requirements, think about your interest and their interest, your strengths and weaknesses. I've heard some say that they went into unschooling by dropping one subject at a time, you stop when you feel like you are a good place, you can always add or subtract more later. We've always gravitated towards a bit of tidal schooling if I were to label it, busy times full of all kinds of things and then laid back times. I'm perpetually working on finding the balance and my goal this year is to embrace this and make the most out of it. The more full and structured times often help give us some thoughts and ideas to fill the more relaxed times but if we are too lax for too long we end up loosing the spark and motivation(I remember Critter saying that you have to keep feeding the creativity and I think that is the jist of it, sometimes the spark goes out and us and we need to relight it). We just finished 9 weeks of a pretty busy schedule and are heading into 2-4 wks of a slower time; I'm still contemplating it but my current plan is 30 min math + Bravewriter and our family nature study. Otherwise time will be doing boatloads of art(of all kinds by ourselves, lessons and with others), sewing, dance, tumbling, scouts and 4H for dd, Robotics (programming and research), TKD, scouts and drama class for ds. The kids want to enter the county fair so we'll be working on projects for that- I'm thinking my kitchen is going to be very busy. I'm thinking as well as the 90 Second Newberry as a family project, I've not talked to them about it yet but I'm thinking they are going to be super excited about this. We watch current events, play geography, math and strategy games for fun, visit museums and read TONS of good books- I believe ds and I will be hitting the Odyssey and Mythology along with new and old classics, great fic and non-fic. The girls always adore fairy tales, Beatrix Potter and have been enjoying any and all animal stories. So, our days will be pretty short on the formals but long on the extras and projects. edited to say: It sounds like our schedule is crazy but our activities are generally concentrated to 3 nights a week and our days are generally kept free (although I'm getting caught up with appointments in the next 2 weeks) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I am not an unschooler but I am a Charlotte Masoner. I would lose the very long school day and would go for shorter lessons. I would make the lessons more hands-on. If your son likes to look at YouTubes of science experiments, great. Lose the child's textbook (but keep one for yourself as a guide) and find YouTubes on what you are learning. But don't forget to have the kids do some hands-on experiments as well. Lose the workbooks - go for living books. For rabbit trails, I kept my own little notebook. As we read aloud in history, science etc. I would write down the kid's questions. Then we would have a "rabbit trail Friday" where we would hop down all of those rabbit trails looking to see where they went. (BTW - rabbit trail Fridays were fun but a bit exhausting.) Add in handcrafts and DIY projects (I loved DIY.org for my kids when they were that age.) One word of advice though.. Make sure that your own vision of how to learn doesn't replace how your kids learn best. On the bolded my son broke me of this really quick, he is so different from me but I've come to adore what works for him, he likes to work right there with me, his education is a collaboration primarily filled with books, he adores them, real books and we enjoy them together. You have to pay attention to the kid you have, ds has never been big on projects, well not the typical kind and hated writing. Now here I am with my daughter and I'm looking at how to incorporate the art and projects she loves into everything for her, the old school assigments with picture study and drawing are right up her alley, coloring sheets and her and dd2 are in heaven, so I cut those things out for ds and find extras to add in for them! I can never get enough books for ds but the dd's just don't have the stamina that he did so we enjoy books, but just not so many. I think a lot of it is modeling interest and curiosity, looking for activities and opportunities and approaching life as a great opportunity to learn something new. and keeping the electronics away, I forgot that one, those have to be limited here! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Well, I'm not an unschooler, and a mite more traditional than a classical educator. I have my workbooks and we use them too. But 26 things seems a bit unwieldy to me. I'd get lost trying to use them all. Kind of like having way too many kitchen implements when all you really need is one or two really good tools. What you want to do, if you want to encourage exploration, is to first provide the time to do it in. Given your situation, I would figure out my core and set that aside. Then I would take the extras and sort them according to whether they are redundant to the core. If they are not, then I might assess that core and get it stronger. Any extras that make the cut get evaluated for whether I can implement them on an as needed or intermittent basis. If I have to do them every day for the kids to retain them, then they get tossed, or put aside for summer study. The goal is to free up time for both you and your kids to explore. I am very hands-off when it comes to the free time. I make it clear that I will be choosing to do things in my spare time like writing or reading, sometimes drawing or playing the piano. The boys are welcome to do what they like with their free time. See what your kids do with free time. But be sure you are using yours to do things you want to do for yourself. Kids learn a whole lot of things by watching what Mom does when she has time for herself, I find. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 But be sure you are using yours to do things you want to do for yourself. Kids learn a whole lot of things by watching what Mom does when she has time for herself, I find. Yep! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk8ermaiden Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 You definitely seem to have an all or nothing approach! Like many, I think somewhere in the middle would probably be best for you and your kids. In our house, math, and phonics/language/reading get done every day. History isn't unschooled, but it is almost entirely student driven. It is the topic my child is most motivated to learn about, so I have handed the reigns to her and I facilitate and guide and read out loud. Science we hit the basics on a weekly basis and then follow rabbit trails and interests as they occur. It's not unschooling, but it's also not doing school for 7 hours a day! It also means that DD walks up to me frequently in the afternoons or evenings, asking to read or watch or do something sciency or history-related, or some logic puzzles...which warms my heart! I don't want her to be so schooled out that she's not interested in learning at any other time. I also usually don't judge another's homeschool, but 26 subjects a day is just too much!! As critterfixer said, it is cluttering up your homeschool, and it sounds like it's suffocating you. What about going back to basics? Reading, writing, math, and science, and seeing what your family genuinely misses and wants to add back? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Four things (bolded) stand out to me from your post: 1. Your children's ages. They are young, but not so young that it feels as though school can be play-based, right? I know the feeling! In fact, we have kids the same ages, except that my twins are 8.5 and there are, of course, two of them. Also, I have all girls. But it's funny that you posted this "I really want to unschool" sentiment, because I've had the same feeling all summer, going into this school year. More about that in a minute. 2. I wish I could let go... combined with... 3. Right now we work from 8 am to 3 pm. No wonder you want to let go! I think maybe you need to. We end up achieving a ton of work at a good level by the time we're "done" with the year, but there is no way we are "doing school" for seven hours (more or less) a day at these ages. That really is too much, IMO, and could lead you all to burnout. 4. Sit around and play video games. Just a quick thought about this -- if you change things up, it doesn't have to be "all or nothing," does it? I mean, if you shorten your school days to allow for more free time, just have some parameters on how you define it. "You are free to read, do art, build, exercise, write, hang out, play (real/board) games, etc., but no screen time." It's up to you, if you initiate a shift in the routine, to establish healthy habits in the new routine. What's the vision you and your children can share for the next few years? Discuss this with them. This is what I ended up doing this summer. I was sensing that my girls are now at the perfect age for the next few years to break out of our school-at-home mode. It occurred to me that the work I had beautifully lined up for this school year was really about 15 months' worth of work, LOL. Seriously. Along with that, we have some plans during the year to take a month off (travel), we like to take some time off around Christmas, and we like to have some time off during the summer. Sigh. So, I thought, "What if we just work our way through at a decent pace without trying to finish by Date X? All the kids are right on-track for everything. All the work is good and solid stuff. The only piece I'd like to move at the normal pace would be Math, but we never have to struggle for that. So.... why not?" The more I thought about this, the better I liked it. On the one hand, we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and leave strong academics behind. We plod with them, but it doesn't feel frantic and tedious. On the other hand, we give the rest of life some time. We balance things as we need them to be. If we need to exercise (and we do!), then we exercise. If we need to help my parents in practical ways (and we do!), then that's what we do. If we need to buckle down and get some academics mastered (and we will need to do this), then we will do that, also. If you have your work lined up, and it's good stuff, why not just keep Math (and maybe Music or a language?) going at the usual pace, but let all the rest get done (with integrity) according to the pace that is reasonable for this season? For me, this was a subtle, but meaningful shift in my thinking. I suppose the best way I can explain it is to say that I had been too course- or curriculum-driven. Finish the lessons, number by number, move through the levels, one per year, and so on. The change in my thinking is that here before me is a real, whole child. Does she clean up her room completely, or is she shoving things under the bed? Behold, the mess under the bed. To deal with this patiently, we need to take the time. Pull it out, talk about it, sort through, establish order. Here before me is another real, whole child. What is she asking, really, with her seemingly endless need to snuggle? Am I too much "Teacher," and not enough "Mommy?" I will take off my teacher hat for a moment and see. Hugs and kisses. Yes, she needs more mothering, and it has to come from me. There is no other mother. This nurturing takes time. And yet another real, whole child. She is coughing, she is tired, she has her father's flu. I make her herbal tea, do all things healing and soothing, tuck her into bed. She is sleeping. Her body rests. I just reached a point this summer -- and we weren't even "doing school," except for Math -- I don't know... it's hard to explain. I kept asking my husband, "Honey, what is wrong with me?" I know he was thinking, "Where do I start?" I like to teach my girls, we love homeschooling. Yet here I was, dreading another year of the same thing, and at the same time, excited to begin again! Arggggggh! It was frustrating, and was almost exactly what you've posted (except we've never done such long days). For me, it was a question of how do you fit in all the other things that are really important in life? Things like passion and interests and hobbies and helping others? Things like habits and health and soul-development? Teacher training? Travel? Chores? Practical skills? Relationships? Wisdom? Irretrievable things, like time with grandparents who will not always be here? The answer that came to me was to put the academic piece in its place. You know when you make a soup, and you have all the ingredients chopped and in the pot? Then you put that pot on the back burner and simmer it. You are still tending the soup. You still pay attention to it. You are still cooking the soup, but you are actively doing other things while it simmers. That is how I came to see the academics in our homeschool. We are in a good place with the girls' skills in many things. We can put that "pot" on the back burner to simmer, give it an occasional stir, and do other things. What if you took this year's line-up and stretched it? What if it took until next December? If you simply continued with the writing, grammar, spelling, history, science, and so on -- wouldn't your children build skills and knowledge? I think it's so easy to get in a panic that if we don't keep up a certain pace, our children will fall behind. This summer I thought about the overlap between "elementary" grades (K through about 4th) and "middle school" grades (about 5th through 8th), and also the overlap between middle school and high school. I suppose you could also say that, for some college students who need remedial courses, there is an overlap between high school and college! What I'm saying is this -- you have time to get there. What are the skills you want your children to have before they begin high school? If they are well on their way, then you have time to cut the pace down. We are not going to unschool, but we are going to take time to smell the roses, so to speak. There is a good, solid, rich and meaningful line-up for us -- which we will do -- and there is a world to explore, too. I think that these years (8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) with our children are the perfect time for both. HTH. This is a lovely post. It really resonated with me. Are you sure you haven't been reading my mind??? :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 This is a lovely post. It really resonated with me. Are you sure you haven't been reading my mind??? :) Ha ha, well I do read everything you post, because your oldest is slightly older than (and somewhat similar to) my oldest. So I'm all ears, Rose. ;) It's good to learn from each other. I made soup the day I posted that post, and as I put the pot on the back burner, it hit me -- I set it up, then let it simmer. I do not keep lifting the lid, obsessively stirring, watching the pot. Instead, when I have all the necessary ingredients in the pot, I set it on the back burner, put on the lid, turn down the heat, and let it simmer. Then, I do other things (like clean up the kitchen). A good soup can simmer for a while, you know? I thought, "And school is like that, too. They can think, write, read, reason, create, converse, calculate. The basic ingredients are there, in the pot. The missing ingredient is time." This led to me thinking about the quality of the time. I think it needs to be undisturbed time. That is, undisturbed (unplanned, unstructured) by me. Do we make room for this, or do we really believe that just one more school-type or teacher-initiated activity will be of more benefit to these already well-equipped, capable, and creative children? I admit, I might "stir" or "attend" too much, in an effort to do a good job with academics. As I planned and prepped for this school year (3rd/3rd/5th), I was... uneasy. It's hard to explain, grrr. I guess you could say I was uneasy about going back to work with the same structure, the same methodology, the same focus on "getting it done." But I was equally uneasy about changing. If not this, then... what? I knew I had a problem when (1) I was constantly thinking about how nice it would be to send them to school so I could organize my garage, and (2) I started reading unschooling websites. LOL. Oh boy. I know I'm not pregnant, so what can it be? This somewhat resolved when I organized the garage, snort, but the desire for change remained. [still not sure what the garage had to do with anything. It was a thorn in my side, I guess. Every year, focused so much on school that the garage redo was left undone. So I just did it, and I do feel better. I reorganized the entire basement, too -- Play Room, Laundry/Pantry/Storage, Craft/Art Room. And sorted through ALL the bedrooms, closets, and clothes. And completely reorganized the Homeschool Room. I scratched that itch!] But back to the school question -- It's not a slot machine at a casino, where you throw coins in as fast as you can in the hopes that you throw in "enough" to hit the jackpot (eventually). It's like a music box. You wind it up, but you don't just keep winding and winding and winding. If you do, it breaks! Instead, you wind it up until you feel pressure, a bit of resistance, and then you wisely stop winding. And listen. You allow the music box to do what it was designed to do -- play music, bring joy. When it winds down, you can simply wind it up again. I want to capture that this year and beyond with our approach to life and homeschooling. I'll let you know how it goes. I'd like to hear your thoughts, Rose. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I've got lots of thoughts simmering on the back of my mental stove - I will come back and post when I have some time to articulate them. Enjoying this discussion, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahW Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 OP - Have you read Latin-Centered Curriculum? I'm not saying you need to follow it, but it helped me think about how to pare down to the absolute core essentials that need to be focused on. When I plan for the school year I separate those out and give them first place in the scheduling. As for the rest of "good things" like logic puzzles, or music appreciation, or mapping the globe, or whatever, I consider what is most efficient way to achieve the level of education I desire him to have. Doing every single page of Building Thinking Skills 1 is inefficient. Occasionally doing a harder page when fancy strikes is more efficient. Just an example of something that works for my own kid. I'm not sure if you're using a pre-packaged curriculum with a lot of interwoven parts or not, but even still it may be worthwhile to go through and critically evaluate everything you're using and asking "is this adding value to my child's education right now?" It's all right to take stuff out and see what happens, you can come back to it later if you see the need. In my signature I say "Curriculum is a tool, not a tyrant" because I need to remind myself of that fact frequently. If all the workbooks are working very well as the tools to give your children a good and happy education, fine. If you all hate the tools, then revolt against the oppression and either reshape them into good tools or get rid of them and get different tools. Just to give more examples, I spend a lot of time thinking about the current core essentials, math, writing/spelling/LA, languages, and world literature, and am intentional about scheduling them. I make sure I have very good quality working tools for those. For the rest of the subjects I have a bunch of tools that I strew at my kid's feet (sometimes literally) and tools I can pull out of my back pocket (figuratively) if I see an interest forming, and see what sticks. At the moment I have little control over what he does daily (since he's on a different continent), but he has read in the past month, on his own, RS4K's Chemistry and UEWH (which he said was "really interesting" .... yeah, I think he's a little odd too). I bought those books thinking they would be used differently, but his method also works. He has also used his Duolingo account I created for Dutch to explore Irish and Italian (why? who knows). He's not a "go getter" kid, or a bookworm, and he wastes too much time on the computer for my liking, but still...with a bit of support from having good tools provided, he accomplishes quite a bit of "schoolwork" on his own initiative. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PagesandFields Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I've read all John Holt... I've read Classical stuff... I was trained to be a PS teacher... I've studied Waldorf books... I had a brief infatuation with all things Montessori... I've read basically every possible "kind" of education... I wanted a rigorous Classical Education that was somehow discovered through John Holt or Unschooling kinds of ways. hmmm... Kids are all different. No matter how excited I was to be able to homeschool my own kids with all my exciting ideas (yes I cheekily said exciting twice), my 1st really loves workbooks. Who'd a thunk it... I found reading Charlotte Mason (her original books, not the books about her books) to be incredibly useful in helping me to imagine what the education I had in my head might look like. If you haven't read her books, it might be worth a shot. There's a beauty, gentleness and love of children that I somehow feel from her books that helped me to envision a sort of structured way of allowing education freedom... if that makes any sense at all... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeriJ Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Ha ha, well I do read everything you post, because your oldest is slightly older than (and somewhat similar to) my oldest. So I'm all ears, Rose. ;) It's good to learn from each other. I made soup the day I posted that post, and as I put the pot on the back burner, it hit me -- I set it up, then let it simmer. I do not keep lifting the lid, obsessively stirring, watching the pot. Instead, when I have all the necessary ingredients in the pot, I set it on the back burner, put on the lid, turn down the heat, and let it simmer. Then, I do other things (like clean up the kitchen). A good soup can simmer for a while, you know? I thought, "And school is like that, too. They can think, write, read, reason, create, converse, calculate. The basic ingredients are there, in the pot. The missing ingredient is time." This led to me thinking about the quality of the time. I think it needs to be undisturbed time. That is, undisturbed (unplanned, unstructured) by me. Do we make room for this, or do we really believe that just one more school-type or teacher-initiated activity will be of more benefit to these already well-equipped, capable, and creative children? I admit, I might "stir" or "attend" too much, in an effort to do a good job with academics. As I planned and prepped for this school year (3rd/3rd/5th), I was... uneasy. It's hard to explain, grrr. I guess you could say I was uneasy about going back to work with the same structure, the same methodology, the same focus on "getting it done." But I was equally uneasy about changing. If not this, then... what? I knew I had a problem when (1) I was constantly thinking about how nice it would be to send them to school so I could organize my garage, and (2) I started reading unschooling websites. LOL. Oh boy. I know I'm not pregnant, so what can it be? This somewhat resolved when I organized the garage, snort, but the desire for change remained. [still not sure what the garage had to do with anything. It was a thorn in my side, I guess. Every year, focused so much on school that the garage redo was left undone. So I just did it, and I do feel better. I reorganized the entire basement, too -- Play Room, Laundry/Pantry/Storage, Craft/Art Room. And sorted through ALL the bedrooms, closets, and clothes. And completely reorganized the Homeschool Room. I scratched that itch!] But back to the school question -- It's not a slot machine at a casino, where you throw coins in as fast as you can in the hopes that you throw in "enough" to hit the jackpot (eventually). It's like a music box. You wind it up, but you don't just keep winding and winding and winding. If you do, it breaks! Instead, you wind it up until you feel pressure, a bit of resistance, and then you wisely stop winding. And listen. You allow the music box to do what it was designed to do -- play music, bring joy. When it winds down, you can simply wind it up again. I want to capture that this year and beyond with our approach to life and homeschooling. I'll let you know how it goes. I'd like to hear your thoughts, Rose. :wub: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 ..... I made soup the day I posted that post, and as I put the pot on the back burner, it hit me -- I set it up, then let it simmer. I do not keep lifting the lid, obsessively stirring, watching the pot. Instead, when I have all the necessary ingredients in the pot, I set it on the back burner, put on the lid, turn down the heat, and let it simmer. Then, I do other things (like clean up the kitchen). A good soup can simmer for a while, you know? I thought, "And school is like that, too. They can think, write, read, reason, create, converse, calculate. The basic ingredients are there, in the pot. The missing ingredient is time." This led to me thinking about the quality of the time. I think it needs to be undisturbed time. That is, undisturbed (unplanned, unstructured) by me. Do we make room for this, or do we really believe that just one more school-type or teacher-initiated activity will be of more benefit to these already well-equipped, capable, and creative children? I admit, I might "stir" or "attend" too much, in an effort to do a good job with academics. ...... But back to the school question -- It's not a slot machine at a casino, where you throw coins in as fast as you can in the hopes that you throw in "enough" to hit the jackpot (eventually). It's like a music box. You wind it up, but you don't just keep winding and winding and winding. If you do, it breaks! Instead, you wind it up until you feel pressure, a bit of resistance, and then you wisely stop winding. And listen. You allow the music box to do what it was designed to do -- play music, bring joy. When it winds down, you can simply wind it up again.... . I loved this part of your post. It reminds me of one of the cognitive development classes I took in college. The research we studied suggested the lag time between exposure to concepts and to their incorporation in play could be up to 2 weeks. It talked about children incorporating characters from stories and other ideas they had learned about, but that they rarely did it right away. The assumption was their subconscious needed to process the ideas before the child actually owned them personally. The rapid fire pace of snippets of info is one reason why I shy away from textbooks. I really enjoy strolling through ideas with my kids and whole books nurture that approach. Slow and steady strolling through one day at a time is the only way I keep going. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm4him Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I could write a mini-book right now but I won't. I will just say that I am finding a lot of peace right now in a routine of Bible (on audio book while they draw, do legos, or puzzles, etc.), chores with memory work songs, lunch with Read aloud, free time to study or play in the afternoon as they see fit (lots of library trips and no video games or TV), and evenings of sharing with Daddy what they learned and enjoying documentaries or classic movies or board games together. Some evenings some kids have choir or youth group, but at least 4 evenings a week we are all together. I get to inspire them during read aloud and get those memory pegs or music appreciation in while we do chores. I get to get the Bible time in while they think they are playing (which actually involves art, engineering, and logic if you think about it). I get to enjoy being their Mom while we learn history or science on audiobook in the car or on a documentary. I get to practice spelling and math skills while we play board games. And I get to set an example by reading and studying on my own in the afternoons in front of them, while making myself available to help them with their ideas for learning as desired. What it lacks in organization it makes up for in depth of learning because they are self-motivated and not pushed and all of it looks like fun to them. I am not too busy or stressed about what we are "accomplishing" to train and nurture them properly throughout the day. Because I can breathe, I can spend time thinking about how to improve myself and my relationships with them and my husband and others in my life, as well as my relationship with God. And I can listen to my intuition as their mother more because I am not busy trying to follow a lesson plan. I can focus on who we are becoming individually and collectively. I have time to enjoy them and drink in their sweetness rather than pushing them away because I am busy making their sibling do math (or whatever). I am not saying that others who follow a curriculum can't also do these things. I'm saying that for ME, doing what looks like unschooling ends up giving me the freedom to teach them what they are ready and willing to learn, encourage them to learn what they might not otherwise be aware of or interested in, and love and nurture them naturally and easily. Homeschooling finally looks like what it looked like in my head originally, but never looked like in reality. And I am getting so many more hugs and kisses these days :-) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'm an uptight schoolmarm who gets her unschool fix like this. We do our classical education thing for our core subjects and then unschool whatever else we can (art, music, electives). As DD gets older and her passions become more clear, I try to meld her passions into our core curriculum (i.e., we are doing one year of equine science with practical horse experience for one year of our science). 8-3 seems an awfully long time for school. On a classical education message board, you are unlikely to find many people who will encourage you to be an unschooler. Instead, focus on only a few subjects well (the seven liberal arts) and leave the rest by the wayside. This will cut down the time you are "doing school" and hopefully give everyone a break. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessie5 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 If you're looking for a how-to of unschooling and feeling better about screens, have you seen Sandra Dodd's huge unschooling web site? Here's the "screen time" page: http://sandradodd.com/screentime/ - She has a compelling argument for looking very closely at what your kids are doing with screens, get so interested in it that they talk to you about it; they're probably learning more from it than is immediately apparent. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I post this same post every 6 months, and I'm still figuring it out. :lol: 8fillstheheart and albeto are very inspiring as well as chrysalis academy. I love when they answer these posts. Have you read Project Based homeschooling? Or checked out her blog & FB page? Lots of great discussion on child led homeschooling! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsutsie Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think it boils down to the kids I have. My DD is an unschooler at heart, my son, not so much. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, but really feel drawn to the lovely picture painted by unschoolers or even just more relaxed homeschoolers (the successful ones.) 8FillTheHeart, I really love all of your posts and I'm very inspired by the way you do things. Your ideas resonates with me, and THAT is what I want for my children. But they, especially DS, is not getting it. Although, I suppose that it because me expectations are not clear enough? Maybe I should not have any? How do you encourage a child to create, to build, to THINK? DS could care less about lego, crafts, hands-on experimenting, any sort of toy, etc. He is a theoretical physicist at heart. His age/skills keeps him from experimenting with burning lasers, hadron colliders, etc. His interests are not easily supported by me or the local library. What would a project on a black hole look like? How do I encourage creativity in someone who is not creative? Or not in the way I see it. I have given him plenty of time, space, resources, help, independence, encouragement, etc. but nothing happens. He'd rather just do another coursera course or watch youtube videos on his area of interest. (He does not play that much games, but he does watch a lot of youtube science related videos without ever doing anything with it. I think he made something twice in the last 3 years from videos he's watched.) I want projects that clutter up our home, sparks more than a fleeting interest and that sets a fire burning. THAT'S why I wanted to homeschool in the first place. It's not happening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 How do you encourage a child to create, to build, to THINK? . He is a theoretical physicist at heart. His age/skills keeps him from experimenting with burning lasers, hadron colliders, etc. His interests are not easily supported by me or the local library. What would a project on a black hole look like? Lots and lots of printer paper or blank notebooks to doodle on. For example, my boys watched Fabric of the Cosmos when it aired on TV and draw out their ideas after the NOVA episodes. Have you seen examples of Da Vinci's science notebooks? http://www.drawingsofleonardo.org If you have a NASA visitor center or space center near to you, go there and let him chat with the people there. It is likely they may not know the answers to his questions but they would be happy to listen and discuss. Astronomy and star gazing clubs are other good venues to find people willing to talk about black holes, quantum mechanics and the like. No tangible/visible output doesn't mean ideas aren't churning in their brains. I was drawn to the power of supercomputers, ended up working in the industry after graduating. It would be hard to build a supercomputer on my parents middle class income in the early 80s. My first 286 computer cost my parents $4k back in 1989. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 DS could care less about lego, crafts, hands-on experimenting, any sort of toy, etc. He is a theoretical physicist at heart. His age/skills keeps him from experimenting with burning lasers, hadron colliders, etc. His interests are not easily supported by me or the local library. What would a project on a black hole look like? How do I encourage creativity in someone who is not creative? Or not in the way I see it. I have given him plenty of time, space, resources, help, independence, encouragement, etc. but nothing happens. He'd rather just do another coursera course or watch youtube videos on his area of interest. (He does not play that much games, but he does watch a lot of youtube science related videos without ever doing anything with it. I think he made something twice in the last 3 years from videos he's watched.) I want projects that clutter up our home, sparks more than a fleeting interest and that sets a fire burning. THAT'S why I wanted to homeschool in the first place. It's not happening. Some people don't like projects, some people like the theoretical, not all science is hands-on and not all things of value are things that are built. I know I've read regentrude talk about how she prefers theoretical, IIRC 8 has a son that had similar interests, it seems I also read someone talking about their child being interested in astrophysics in another thread that listed lots of ideas. Maybe you could do a search on here or start a new thread to start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 DS could care less about lego, crafts, hands-on experimenting, any sort of toy, etc. He is a theoretical physicist at heart. His age/skills keeps him from experimenting with burning lasers, hadron colliders, etc. His interests are not easily supported by me or the local library. What would a project on a black hole look like? How do I encourage creativity in someone who is not creative? Or not in the way I see it. I have given him plenty of time, space, resources, help, independence, encouragement, etc. but nothing happens. He'd rather just do another coursera course or watch youtube videos on his area of interest. (He does not play that much games, but he does watch a lot of youtube science related videos without ever doing anything with it. I think he made something twice in the last 3 years from videos he's watched.) I want projects that clutter up our home, sparks more than a fleeting interest and that sets a fire burning. THAT'S why I wanted to homeschool in the first place. It's not happening. This was my vision for unschooling too. I didn't happen. :laugh: I have one who, just like your ds, wasn't into making projects. He was into studying. Human anatomy turned into microbiology, turned into cellular biology, turned into neurology. No way I was going to have brain experiments in my home! No thank you! There was lots of reading, lots of chasing rabbit trails down the computer. Lots of youtube video. If meetups existed then (or I knew about them), I would have taken him to more talks given to the public by specialty groups that function for the purpose of sharing with the public knowledge in a specific field. If I could do it all over again, I would encourage physical activity as much as possible, but he was a kid with sensory integration challenges, and physical activities never really did anything more than frustrate him. We found one thing, we put all our eggs into that physical basket. It's not ideal, it is what it is. He's a brilliant person anyway and school and schedules and curricula were holding him back. Imagine my surprise when my other, typical kids, didn't similarly pursue college material at age 14. Oops. ^_^ But the advice about joining your child in what they do enjoy is fantastic advice, and something I found in my experience to have been of utmost importance. Not only did we get to really see what kinds of things the kids liked, but I got to see a trend in their interests, and when that trend became apparent, I took it upon myself to provide novel resources for them that were on the outlier of this interest, but compelling enough to maybe pursue it. In return for my efforts, I found that my kids learned to trust that I truly did value and respect their interests, and their knowledge within those interests. I think this is one of the fundamental points of unschooling, or at least this was one of the things that I understood to be stressed greatly - the importance of solidifying a genuine, respectful relationship. I won't belabor that point because I suspect that will veer off your intended topic, but I'm happy to babble on about that upon request, lol! Anyway, with regard to interests and projects. My kids really didn't do projects. Then again, when something caught their attention, they had the time to explore it as much until their natural curiosity was satisfied. Somewhere around here I have a picture of my kids making a radio out of something on Saturday night. The older one was explaining to the younger the science behind why they could hear radio sounds when this wire touched that piece of metal. The whole kitchen table was dedicated to such a thing. It lasted one night, it didn't stay up, they moved on. It sticks out in my memory because it was uncommon, and pretty cool. I thought, how many teens would want to spend their Saturday night explaining to their little brother how radio science works? Well, to the unschooler, Saturday night is no different from Tuesday afternoon. Rabbit trails are like that. Curiosity is like that. It didn't happen often, though, and I really hoped it would. But it didn't. I hesitate to encourage people to unschool only because there's really no safety net, kwim? You may read my words and apply them to the best of your ability only to find out in three years you've got kids who are bored and listless at home. I would feel terrible if I contributed to that in any way. I think unschooling works well when a child is surrounded by knowledgeable people. Dh is a professional scientist. My kids grew up around biology, they understand the mechanics of evolution and so questions have always been answered with a frame of reference that most kids aren't exposed to until high school. But it wasn't just questions. Casual comments incorporated this knowledge as well. Walks through the woods or along lakes were not just enjoyable, they were full of discovery and information. I couldn't have done this, and I don't see how my kids could have learned what they learned doing this once or twice a year on field trips. It was a constant infusion of knowledge. And this didn't just affect their knowledge in biology. Learning what questions to ask, learning how to be skeptical of ideas (even one's own), learning how to differentiate between fact and opinion, learning how to deduct information, learning how it feels to be wrong and wrap your head around a different idea, these were all skills my kids learned through these experiences. These skills are woven throughout their learning. Not every family can provide that, and I don't know how I lucked out. I do think these meetups are just fantastic for those who can't. You can take advantage of these opportunities regardless of what educational style you embrace. I would look into Maker Culture, and see what kinds of things schools and employers are talking about. Then find opportunities in your area to expose your kids to people who create things. Legos, smegos. Why not rocketry? Or robotics? Or learn how to make a telescope? And if they're not project oriented kids, find out what really tickles their curiosity, and delve into it. If you live in or near an urban area, chances are you'll find others with similar interests. I would encourage you to resist the temptation to only pursue academic sounding interests. In the meantime, I wouldn't jump into unschooling. I would encourage you to slowly but surely drop what isn't working, and keep what is. Try new things. Pace yourself, take time to learn about learning, about how unschooling works. Learn about how your kids work. Take the time to relate with them on a level that's not parent-child oriented. Learn what's out there in your community, and decide how far you can conceivably travel to obtain certain opportunities. Learn what you can't do without, and give yourself room to revert back if something doesn't work out. And always, keep an eye on how your kids are doing, educationally and emotionally. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I've got lots of thoughts simmering on the back of my mental stove - I will come back and post when I have some time to articulate them. Enjoying this discussion, though. Yep, I'm dorkily quoting myself. I'm about to head to the beach with the family - first day dh and I have both been not working for more than two months - so I still haven't had time to really craft the responses that are bubbling up as I read these posts. But I wanted to post a link to this article and share this one quote, because I think it is so relevant to the time - the soup pot bubbling on its own - issue. This is talking about teenagers, but I think it's relevant for any age. And I think it can happen in homeschools, not just b&m school: http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/08/qa-the-miseducation-of-our-college-elite/377524/?utm_source=SFFB "Aside from the classes themselves, the fact that we’ve created a system where kids are constantly busy, and have no time for solitude or reflection, is going to take its toll. We need to create a situation where kids feel like they don’t have to be “on†all the time. Given the chance, adolescents tend to engage in very intense conversation, and a lot of life learning happens laterally, happens peer to peer. But if they're constantly busy, there's literally no time. It’s crazy. We’ve taken adolescence away from adolescents. School must not take away your opportunities to self-reflect on your own." School - even homeschool - must not take away a child's opportunities to learn, to self reflect, to develop a sense of self. I always have to watch myself as I want to add just one more book, just one more paper, just one more cool lecture series, just one more thing to our day . . . what I need to preserve, first and foremost, is time for my children to become. More later, and I'll catch up on the last few posts I haven't had time to read yet. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I haven't read other responses. 8 to 3 seems like a long structured day for your kids ages to me. We are doing more structure now that my kids are 11 and 14, but when they were younger, we could get basic structured stuff done early in the day and they still had plenty of time to explore their interests. I think it's possible to be eclectic, covering basics and leaving time for exploration, interest led, field trips, hands on, etc. I think my 14 year old should be done in that many hours a day and he is a freshman this year. I do think it depends what your kids are doing the rest of the day too. We had limited hours for technology/TV/etc when the kids were younger. None of that is allowed here before 3 pm even now if my kids are done early. My kids do enriching extras that I think really fill out their homeschooling too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsutsie Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Thank you Chrysalis. Your post encapsulates exactly how I feel and why I am unsettled with our current situation. Making it "not so" is what I'm having a hard time with. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.