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I'm wanting to share an experience I had months ago. It has gotten under my skin. There is this homeschool Mom who I would see around. I first met her at a book club, and then I ran into her at our local gym class for homeschoolers. I would chat her up. Cuz I'm friendly like that. And I could sense her lack of warmth, short responses...barely made eye contact. Ok, I guess this is what people refer to as an introvert, but sometimes I honestly feel that is a nice term given to rude behavior. Btw- I'm not at all a weirdo...I just made some friendly small talk, etc. I wasn't smothering her. Then, I actually saw her at a mutual friends get together ( small town) she didn't make eye contact...I just got the impression she was trying hard not to say hello. Ok, that hurts! Then. Here is the real issue- she is also a part of the same small homeschool group, and when I saw her there. She was aloof as usual, but the kicker is this. I am friendly and liked by the other Moms, and as soon as she saw that I was accepted by them..her whole attitude changed like magic! Big smiles, she even put her hand on my shoulder!! Lots more convo now!! Geesh...so she had to witness me being validated by other women to actually treat me kindly,! What is that " oh, now that these other moms deem you acceptable...I will too". I feel so bad by that.. I see this in the homeschool world, everything is just a popularity game, and who you know :(. Thanks for letting me rant

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You might be right, but it is also possible that she is really very shy.

 

I have that kind of social anxiety - it is a huge effort for me to talk to someone who I don't really know.  I have become much better at responding to people who talk to me, but as far as breaking the ice - I have a hard time.  I, totally irrationally, feel like I will have some sort of disaster if I initiate the contact, so if I am tired or feeling distracted with other things (like kids), I will often avoid.  I can barely call people on the phone unless they are close to me.

 

It's totally different in a small group setting where I know the other people.  I don't know why, but it is, and I tend to be pretty affectionate as well in that kind of setting. 

 

 

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All of this is actually why I often wish my generation had stricter etiquette rules for social interactions.  If I have a script I can use to get through the initial stages of meeting and chatting, or that tells me things like "when someone has died sent a card within three days" or whatever, I can easily do it.  It's when I am called on to make decisions that I have problems.

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My whole life I've been considered snotty by various people that don't know me.  This is because when I meet new people, especially women, I have NO IDEA how to make small talk.  If I have something very specific to talk to you about, it'll go over great.  If I do not, I will stand there and either a) say something stupidly awkward and wish I could crawl under a rock b) make awkward eye contact and wish I could crawl under a rock or c) make an excuse to be anywhere else.  I often choose c.  It has absolutely no bearing on what I think of said new person.  

Once people get to know me, they realize that I'm pretty darn friendly.

 

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My whole life I've been considered snotty by various people that don't know me.  This is because when I meet new people, especially women, I have NO IDEA how to make small talk.  If I have something very specific to talk to you about, it'll go over great.  If I do not, I will stand there and either a) say something stupidly awkward and wish I could crawl under a rock b) make awkward eye contact and wish I could crawl under a rock or c) make an excuse to be anywhere else.  I often choose c.  It has absolutely no bearing on what I think of said new person.  

 

Once people get to know me, they realize that I'm pretty darn friendly.

 

Same here.

 

OP, I can't say for sure what her deal is, but I don't know if it is fair to read too deeply into it.  It takes me forever to warm up to people, but once I do most people seem to like me.  You know what it's like from my POV?  I spend a lot of time thinking people don't like me and don't really want to talk to me or get to know me.  It's not a pleasant feeling, but I've felt that way my entire life.  When people gush at me and make small talk, I don't even know what to say to them or how to take that kind of behavior.  And there is nothing wrong with your behavior, but there is nothing wrong with mine.  It's just different. 

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My whole life I've been considered snotty by various people that don't know me.  This is because when I meet new people, especially women, I have NO IDEA how to make small talk.  If I have something very specific to talk to you about, it'll go over great.  If I do not, I will stand there and either a) say something stupidly awkward and wish I could crawl under a rock b) make awkward eye contact and wish I could crawl under a rock or c) make an excuse to be anywhere else.  I often choose c.  It has absolutely no bearing on what I think of said new person.  

 

Once people get to know me, they realize that I'm pretty darn friendly.

 

Oh!  I also find this is far far worse with women.  I find men much easier to talk to.  I think it is really interesting that you find the same thing.  Maybe I am not just a nutter.

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I'll just throw this out there because I seldom see it mentioned but it is a real issue for me - maybe she didn't recognize you/couldn't place you?

 

I am an introvert but am also generally perceived as being warm and friendly (people seldom believe me when I say I'm an introvert, but I need TONS of recovery time from social interactions). But when I am meeting new people, and *particularly* when I am getting to know someone new and see them the first couple of times, I have an honest-to-goodness hard time recognizing them. I have a hard time convincing myself that that lady with the long hair and the pink dress really IS the same lady I spent *ten minutes* talking to last week that had her hair up and black capris. Sometimes I'm so unsure that I flat out avoid the person because I am embarrassed and don't want to commit a faux pas. More than once I have reintroduced myself to someone whom I totally should have known. :blushing: :blushing: :blushing:

 

People always assume others will recognize them. but in my case, it is simply not a safe assumption, especially if I see you in a different environment. It's a serious issue with me and definitely affects my social interactions.

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I'm like tranquility7, I simply have a super hard time remembering faces. If I'm not expecting to see you or if I don't recognize your voice, you are a totally new person to me. 

 

It really is a problem. I typically won't recognize my own family members either if they are somewhere I'm not expecting them. Sad, but true. 

 

So, if I don't recognize or acknowledge you, don't take it personally. That isn't a skill I have. 

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I'll just throw this out there because I seldom see it mentioned but it is a real issue for me - maybe she didn't recognize you/couldn't place you?

 

I am an introvert but am also generally perceived as being warm and friendly (people seldom believe me when I say I'm an introvert, but I need TONS of recovery time from social interactions). But when I am meeting new people, and *particularly* when I am getting to know someone new and see them the first couple of times, I have an honest-to-goodness hard time recognizing them. I have a hard time convincing myself that that lady with the long hair and the pink dress really IS the same lady I spent *ten minutes* talking to last week that had her hair up and black capris. Sometimes I'm so unsure that I flat out avoid the person because I am embarrassed and don't want to commit a faux pas. More than once I have reintroduced myself to someone whom I totally should have known. :blushing: :blushing: :blushing:

 

People always assume others will recognize them. but in my case, it is simply not a safe assumption, especially if I see you in a different environment. It's a serious issue with me and definitely affects my social interactions.

 

I have difficulty with this too.  And if someone stands too close to my face it is worse.  I'm very farsighted and even with corrective lenses it is difficult.  I cannot look someone in the eyes if they are too close otherwise they look very blurry and too much of that gives me a headache.

 

I guess I'm just an odd duck. 

 

 

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I'm wanting to share an experience I had months ago. It has gotten under my skin. There is this homeschool Mom who I would see around. I first met her at a book club, and then I ran into her at our local gym class for homeschoolers. I would chat her up. Cuz I'm friendly like that. And I could sense her lack of warmth, short responses...barely made eye contact. Ok, I guess this is what people refer to as an introvert, but sometimes I honestly feel that is a nice term given to rude behavior. Btw- I'm not at all a weirdo...I just made some friendly small talk, etc. I wasn't smothering her. Then, I actually saw her at a mutual friends get together ( small town) she didn't make eye contact...I just got the impression she was trying hard not to say hello. Ok, that hurts! Then. Here is the real issue- she is also a part of the same small homeschool group, and when I saw her there. She was aloof as usual, but the kicker is this. I am friendly and liked by the other Moms, and as soon as she saw that I was accepted by them..her whole attitude changed like magic! Big smiles, she even put her hand on my shoulder!! Lots more convo now!! Geesh...so she had to witness me being validated by other women to actually treat me kindly,! What is that " oh, now that these other moms deem you acceptable...I will too". I feel so bad by that.. I see this in the homeschool world, everything is just a popularity game, and who you know :(. Thanks for letting me rant

 

OP, the bolded makes me feel like you don't know what introversion is at all. What, to you, doesn't feel like smothering can feel that way to an introvert. I think you're also confusing two different things - shyness and introversion. Sometimes they go together, but some shy people are extroverts and some introverts (like me, actually) are really outgoing. However, even with that, I've had people try to pathologize my need to be alone. One friend, who clearly didn't get introversion at all, suggested that maybe I needed to seek therapy because I couldn't do a third night out in a row. Introverts need time to recharge and need one on one interactions, often prefer not to have the small talk phase of interaction, like to have a few close friends and not a large network. If you're interested in expanding your understanding of a large portion of the population the book Quiet by Susan Cain is an excellent read.

 

But there could be a million explanations for this woman's behavior. As suggested above, she might have face blindness. She might be slightly on the spectrum. She might be really shy or suffer from social anxiety. You might have caught her after her three worst days that month. Maybe she's an introvert and the gym class falls on her family's crazy busy day and she's all socialed out by the time she sees you. She might have mixed you up with someone else. Who knows. I think you're drawing way too many conclusions about homeschool moms and about this woman. If she is a shy introvert with social anxiety, then knowing that you're a friend of her friends may have helped her get past her anxiety. It's not that she's being a snob, it's not about you, it's about her working through stages to accept you into her circle. If that's the case, I sure hope you're kind.

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Speaking as the shy introvert who frequently doesn't recognize people in various situations...this is why it can be soooo exhausting to be around other women---because anything and everything you do might be stuck under a microscope and analyzed behind your back.  You open your mouth and say something incredibly stupid (gulp) or you say nothing and then you're a horrible, heartless slob.  :crying:

 

I tend to avoid small talk because I stink at it, but I really love people in general.  It is hard to really get to know me, but those who give me a chance know my heart is in the right place.  You might consider giving her the benefit of the doubt---human beings are notoriously bad at "reading" other people.  We just don't read minds at all well, even the minds of our nearest and dearest, let alone those we've only exchanged a few words with. ;)

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I sometimes come off this way probably. I just simply cannot handle small talk. It makes me sleepy! Plus if I have been with my children all day, I am all touched and socialized out. I find it difficult to continue to make eye contact with people once I have hit that point. I feel overwhelmed and panicky. If I saw you at a gym day and it was crazy, I just might avoid looking at you and mutter some polite grunts and giggles and then find a way to go chase after my toddler to avoid further contact. It has nothing, nothing at all to do with the other person. I know they must think I am an idiot or rude and that makes me even more awkward. If I am in a smaller group with people I am comfortable with then I can be myself and I will be warm and talkative. In that situation we have skipped all the surface stuff and people are usually talking about specific topics. I will shut down at some point though and just stop talking. Or of course she could have just been exactly as you described. Some people are just like that. I will say that I think a higher number of people who are introverts are drawn to homeschooling for many reasons. I felt really overwhelmed every day at drop off when my son was in school because it was lots of small talk but every morning! I would pretend to not see another mom friend (whom I love and is a family friend) sometimes simply because I couldn't handle the interaction every day. Obviously had not a single thing to do with her. I just needed a couple hours in the morning with no talking. I'm sorry you felt that way OP. Whatever her reasons I don't think you should spend any time concerned with her. If it is a popularity contest with her then that too is all about her issues and has nothing to do with you in reality. Remembering that helps me to keep perspective when I have had my feelings stung.

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I'm sure I come off as a snob, but I'm really not a snob.  I am very uncomfortable meeting people in large group settings.  If I meet people one-on-one, they have no idea how quiet I am.  I honestly just can't keep up with large groups and lots of conversation going on.  It's so difficult for me to just jump in!  

 

I've also run into situations where I couldn't place the person or didn't want to mistake them for someone else.  I agree that this could be another possibility.  

 

In short, I'd give the mom another chance.  Maybe she really is a snob, but maybe she's just a bit standoff-ish with people she doesn't know well.  I would hate to loose out on a friendship because of the way I first come across.  

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How long have you been homeschooling, OP?  You said small town.  I wouldn’t decide what the homeschool community as a whole is like based on a few small town experiences. I’ve lived in a county with just under 10,000 registered homeschoolers for 16 years.  What you describe, if your assumptions are right, is the exception, not the rule based on my experience.
 

Introversion isn’t what you describe.  There are plenty of articles on it if you want to know more about it. Google it.  I’m sure you’ll find something helpful if look into it.

 

Your post is a lot of assuming what someone else is thinking.  There’s no way to know if you’re actually right.  I think doing that has the potential to cause a lot of relationship problems.  It’s a really important life skill for people to be able to come up with a plausible reason for someone’s undesirable behavior before jumping to conclusions and being hurt.  I actively teach my kids this. Being hurt is almost always a choice.  Don’t choose it-not choosing it makes your life better.  Some people are going through hard, depressing, overwhelming things and they should be extended grace without someone demanding an explanation so they can evaluate whether or not grace is “appropriate†in that situation.  What does it hurt you to assume she’s got her reasons?  That she honestly didn’t recognize you?

 

And what if she doesn’t have a good reason? If she is a snob you’re not losing anything if you choose to tell yourself it’s not worth it to spend emotional energy on the things you can’t control, like other people’s behavior.

 

I despise small talk. Preferring not to talk about things that don’t matter isn’t a character flaw if you ask me. Neither is being a person of few words.  I’m not that kind of person (obviously from my long post) but some people are.  So what?  Should I assume they’re bad because they’re not verbose like me?

 

Some people find it easier to talk to someone in a group because they don’t have to do all the heavy lifting of the despised small talk chatter themselves.  They can throw in a phrase or two and offload keeping the conversation going to everyone else.  Then they can jump in and out without being blamed by someone else if they don’t keep it going.

 

  I’m confused.  Are you upset now that she did talk to you in that homeschool group context?  Isn’t that the behavior you wanted and expected in the first place?  Why not see it as a success and be glad for it? Do you think someone has to get it right at the beginning or it doesn’t count at all after that? If I had read your account without the commentary, I would’ve read it as a happy ending where two people finally connected within a group of likeminded social network (yay!)  but you put in a frowny face and described it as a rant. Did I misread or misunderstand the situation?

 

Eye contact is very cultural by the way. In some cultures eye contact is done infrequently or only as a sign of aggression. It’s also a more subtle a way to indicate someone isn’t interested in a conversation at the time rather than saying, “I don’t want to talk to you now.† Maybe it really wasn’t a good time to talk.  I remember when my youngest (an adoptee of a different race) was really little and we were running errands on my tight schedule.   I had to shut down conversations with short answers and avoided eye contact all the time because strangers would stop me and ask lots of international adoption questions or tell the stories about their friends and family who adopted internationally but sometimes I just didn’t have the time.  I had to leave and keep the schedule for my older kids who had activities to get to or get home by a certain time because my husband had to teach them classes after dinner while he wasn’t working. It wasn’t personal.  It wasn’t about popularity.

 

Then there were the years I had no idea I was severely B12 deficient, anemic and had one large and several small noncancerous tumors growing in me.  I thought I was just tired.  I had no energy. Every day was literally a struggle to get up out of bed.  I had a marriage on the rocks, a kid with mental health issues and was homeschooling 2 in high school with a hyper active little one.  I’m glad people extended grace to me when I wasn’t very chatty or disposed to make eye contact.  Thank God I collapsed on the floor with excruciating pain due to the tumor blocking off my kidney or I would’ve gone undiagnosed even longer.

 

Before that there were 2 years of helping care for elderly dependent grandparents and then having them in hospice. Not chatty then either. You never know what people are going through.  Assume the best and extend grace just in case.

.

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Thank you everyone for all your insights here. I am aware of what typically constitutes an introvert- lots of alone time, recharging, shy, etc. I am very friendly, and I enjoy chatting, but I also can relate to the need to withdraw...be alone, and relax. Socializing is tiring. What I don't appreciate is women labeling themselves an introvert to excuse themselves out of being polite, kind...and civil to others. I might not know someone well, but I can smile, say hello. I'm a grown woman...I can get over myself for a minute and speak kindly and extend some friendliness to someone else even if I'm" shy" or whatever. If you are a self proclaimed introvert, and you visited a church for the first time, and no one chatted you up, smiled your way, greeted you....most people would assume it was an unfriendly church....don't think many would say- " oh their great...just a bunch of introverts!" Just some thoughts. Some awesome Christian writers who I respect would say that being shy as an adult is a form of pride and selfishness. I don't think I'm in full agreement of that, but i can see truths there.

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That last post was explaining my small rant included in my OP regarding introversion.

 

 

 

To clarify my other thoughts- I was confused why someone would act very friendly towards me AFTER I was viewed as being " liked" and accepted by others in a group. I am annoyed with this woman because I didn't receive and warmth or interest from her, even after seeing her a handful of times, until I was validated by other people. Hope this makes sense...getting late :/.

 

I do see a lot of good advice here. I do tend toward cynicism

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A few more thoughts~ I think that as a culture we highly praise the individual, at all costs. Someone says- I'm shy, so don't expect much from me, I'm going to protect my introverted self, and not bother with those pesky social graces we teach our kids ( or do we??). I know I would advise, and steer my quieter daughter to extend kindness, and show warmth to others, because that is how she would want to be treated

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Thank you everyone for all your insights here. I am aware of what typically constitutes an introvert-

 

No, you're not, because this:

 

shy, etc.

 

 

is incorrect, as was pointed out upthread.

 

What I don't appreciate is women labeling themselves an introvert to excuse themselves out of being polite, kind...and civil to others.

 

Weird that only women are rude in your world.

 

 

I might not know someone well, but I can smile, say hello. I'm a grown woman...I can get over myself for a minute

 

What do you reckon she had to "get over" to say hello? People have given you a lot of compassionate ideas about what it could have been upthread.

 

 

and speak kindly and extend some friendliness to someone else even if I'm" shy" or whatever.

 

Again, shyness is not introversion.

 

And, it wouldn't matter if it were because you've said repeatedly YOU are not shy, so how do you know what you'd do if you were.

 

Some awesome Christian writers who I respect would say that being shy as an adult is a form of pride and selfishness. I don't think I'm in full agreement of that, but i can see truths there.

 

Who cares? Also, Appeal to Authority fallacy.

 

Your post rankles because this is a forum with a tonne of very nice, introverted people.

 

Here's a recent thread about that.

 

The polite (see what I did there?) thing to do here when you want to vent and not get feedback is to put "JAWM" which stands for "just agree with me" in the thread title.

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Social skills are important everywhere, even on a homeschooling board designed for discussion like this one.  Making a broad generalization about homeschoolers on a homeschooling board isn’t considered polite and warm and friendly. Mischaracterizing introverts on a board with a higher than average number of introverts from the homeschooling community with a higher number than average introverts who went out of their way to give you an insider’s perspective isn’t exactly extending the olive branch of diplomacy.   Neither is drawing conclusions about the thought process of the person in your original post and then insisting you’re right with no evidence to back it up when plausible alternatives were presented by us in a spirit of compassion and personal experience. You don't KNOW she decided to talk to you  "AFTER I was viewed as being ' liked' and accepted by others in a group."  That may be true or you may be completely wrong about that.  We didn't misunderstand you, you misunderstood us.

If you don't want people to respond, don't chose a forum that has a comments/reply section. If this is how you talk to people in normal conversations I would be inclined to avoid conversations with you. I haven't read anything in any of your replies that seems at all warm or kind.  I hear a lot of jumping to the worst possible conclusions and ignoring feedback. If that's what you want from other people, you're not going to get it with your attitude and communication style. 

Be careful.  Causing conflict on the board can get you banned.  Read the board rules.

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If you are a self proclaimed introvert, and you visited a church for the first time, and no one chatted you up, smiled your way, greeted you....most people would assume it was an unfriendly church....don't think many would say- " oh their great...just a bunch of introverts!"

 

Just a little insight into the inner workings of the introvert mind . . . I would LOVE the above scenario. Because as an introvert, I like to stand back and observe, to get a feel for the place before having to interact with it.

 

I can't stand to visit churches. I don't want to stop by the visitor center, I don't want to wear a visitor nametag, I don't want to be greeted by the pastor, I definitely don't want to be "chatted up." Smiles and greetings would not be unwelcome, but please allow me to keep my distance.

 

See, a non-introverted person WOULD think as the quote above. So a church has to reach out to them with all of the visitor stuff and chatty people while not pushing it on the introvert. And people don't generally wear their introvert/extrovert signs so it's hard to know who needs what.

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I'll just throw this out there because I seldom see it mentioned but it is a real issue for me - maybe she didn't recognize you/couldn't place you?

 

I am an introvert but am also generally perceived as being warm and friendly (people seldom believe me when I say I'm an introvert, but I need TONS of recovery time from social interactions). But when I am meeting new people, and *particularly* when I am getting to know someone new and see them the first couple of times, I have an honest-to-goodness hard time recognizing them. I have a hard time convincing myself that that lady with the long hair and the pink dress really IS the same lady I spent *ten minutes* talking to last week that had her hair up and black capris. Sometimes I'm so unsure that I flat out avoid the person because I am embarrassed and don't want to commit a faux pas. More than once I have reintroduced myself to someone whom I totally should have known. :blushing: :blushing: :blushing:

 

People always assume others will recognize them. but in my case, it is simply not a safe assumption, especially if I see you in a different environment. It's a serious issue with me and definitely affects my social interactions.

 

 

I'm like tranquility7, I simply have a super hard time remembering faces. If I'm not expecting to see you or if I don't recognize your voice, you are a totally new person to me. 

 

It really is a problem. I typically won't recognize my own family members either if they are somewhere I'm not expecting them. Sad, but true. 

 

So, if I don't recognize or acknowledge you, don't take it personally. That isn't a skill I have. 

 

 

You might have some degree of face blindness!  I do!  I believe mine is a combination both of my known central vision blindness and additional specific face blindness.  I have the hardest time in the first 15 minutes of a movie figuring out who is who, until I know their personality and can distinguish them that way.  Similarly, if I meet more than one person in a group setting, the new people are virtually indistinguishable in my mind.  If I meet people one at a time, I can keep them straight in my mind typically.  I don't recognise my own husband or kids until they are right next to me.  

 

 

That last post was explaining my small rant included in my OP regarding introversion.

 

 

 

To clarify my other thoughts- I was confused why someone would act very friendly towards me AFTER I was viewed as being " liked" and accepted by others in a group. I am annoyed with this woman because I didn't receive and warmth or interest from her, even after seeing her a handful of times, until I was validated by other people. Hope this makes sense...getting late :/.

 

I do see a lot of good advice here. I do tend toward cynicism

 

It is possible that she was not thinking "This woman is worthy of my affection because other women esteem her."  It is possible she was thinking "This woman is worthy of my trust because other women I trust trust her."  

 

But I think there is probably a lot to this story- body language, etc, that you probably can't relate to us that make your evaluation likely to be true.  So much of personal interactions is nuanced... there must be a reason you are reacting this strongly.  My suggestion?  Just ask her.  Get it off your chest.  I mean, why not? Maybe when you met her, her mother had just died and the very last thing she wanted to do was claim to be "I'm fine, how are you?" and put on a happy face.  WHO KNOWS???  Maybe she is rude a superficial.  But I always try to bend over backwards to give people the benefit of the doubt until I'm proven wrong.  

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