When deciding where you will go with math, how soon do you consider your child's ideas for the future?

[parias1126]

So, my DD just finished CLE math 600. Going into 7th seems to be the hardest year for me to plan.

 

I've waited until the last minute unfortunately because I've just been so unmotivated this year.

 

I have gone back and forth trying to decide whether to stick to CLE 700/800,or to move on to something like Saxon 8/7 for pre-algebra.

 

I did give my DD an extra year and we repeated a lot of things in 2nd grade because she was struggling greatly. My first thought was to move her ahead now that she is doing great, but she could always use more review in math and go at her own pace. She does still struggle at times, but is doing much better and I believe I have CLE to thank for that.

 

My DD is focused on being a hair dresser or make up artist. She also talks about owning her own Bakery some day. She is a very creative child, loves crafty things and drawing.

 

With that being said, I'm not sure it's in her best interest to try and move her too quickly by starting Saxon 8/7 this year so she can start Algebra 1 in 8th.

 

I'm now thinking that it would be best to do the following:

 

CLE 700/800 moving at her own pace. If she completes it early she does. If not, that's fine.

 

This would still have her doing Algebra 1 in 9th, Geometry for 10th, and Algebra 2 for 11th. Of course, if she got through CLE 700/800 sooner, then we can move forward at a quicker pace, but the option is left to her and her ability.

 

With her future goals, I'm assuming this would be the only credits she needs and should change her mind, then we are still in a position to take another math course her 12th grade year.

 

I guess I'm just talking out loud trying to put all this in perspective so that we have a plan that works for her.

 

So, with that being said, does whether or not you push your child ahead quicker with math depend on what their life goals are? Do you think they really know what their true life goals will be at this age? Do you think you can gauge this on the child by this age, their personalities, abilities, interests, etc?

 

Side note: I do have an older DD (22) that I've already graduated as a homeschooler. She was very similar in that, honestly, I always knew the most important thing to her was to be a mom. She always struggled immensely with math and only made it through Algebra 1 having to take remedial math classes in college. She is now an amazing mom while taking college courses online and doing well, but doing exactly what she wanted to do with her life.

[justasque]

I am usually one who feels strongly that you should be careful to not close any doors too early.  But Algebra I in 9th is still a respectable track.

That said, if it were me, I'd try to get the potential texts side-by-side to see what each one (CLE, Saxon) teaches, and ideally an Algebra I text as well, so you can get an idea of where you're aiming and therefore what skills are needed in order to get there.

In fact, it might be useful to put together a list of "what skills do I want dd to have before she gets to Algebra I?".  When I've done this, I've listed the skill, and rated it as either introduce, practice, or master.  The idea would be to assess her current level in a skill area, decide where you need it to be by Algebra I, and thus determing what she needs to learn over the next two years (or you may find one is enough).  So, for example:
 

FRACTIONS:

--Putting fractions in lowest terms.

--Comparing and ordering fractions (1/2 > 1/3)

--Changing fractions to mixed numbers and vice versa.

--Changing fractions to decimals and percents.

--Adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing fractions and mixed numbers.

--Canceling (a critical skill).

--Vocabulary – “numerator†and “denominatorâ€

Which of these skills has she been introduced to?  Which has she gotten solid practice in?  Which has she mastered?  As a general rule, figure that you want to teach a particular skill three years in a row.  In the first, the concept is introduced, in the second, there's a "hey, remember this?" with some more in-depth teaching and a bunch of practice, and in the third, it's used in the context of other kinds of problems so that by the end of the third year it's a solid part of the student's math toolbox.  By assessing her current level for any given skill, you can make a "scope and sequence" chart, compare the textbooks to your chart, and get an idea as to whether you need one year or two before tackling Algebra I.
 

[kiwik]

Better to be solid rather than try to rush on for the sake of rushing on.

[Hunter]

I don't consider what a student thinks about the future, because the future is so uncertain.

 

Trying to keep all doors open is a sure way to close doors though.

 

First I evaluate MY ability to teach a topic and purchase and store resources.

 

Secondly I teach the STUDENT where the student is at. If I'm equipped to do that. If I'm not, I have to accept that without shame.

 

I just trust the future will take care of itself.

[mom31257]

Stay with CLE through at least 800. Don't fix something that isn't broken.

 

My dd completed CLE 800 in 8th grade. Then she did Algebra 1 in 9th using Lial's Beginning Algebra, Geometry in 10th using BJU, and Algebra 2 in 11th using Lial's Intermediate Algebra. I thought like some posted above that solid is best, and my dd was college degree bound. She scored high enough on the math section of her ACT to be exempt from all core math requirements at her college. She took the test at the end of Algebra 2.

 

Algebra 1 in 8th isn't necessary for most students, and more studies are showing that it is actually detrimental.

[The Girls' Mom]

I would give her another year to solidify things.  All of my kids did Algebra I in 9th.  I have at least one going into a STEM field, and this was only decided AFTER high school had already been started.  She is doing double time in math this year to be able to start college in 2017 without having to take math that doesn't count towards her major.  (She needs calculus before graduation).  It is working out fine, and she is able to do it because she has a firm grasp on her math.  But even if she couldn't do that, the worst case for her would have been that she had to take a class or two in math that did NOT count towards her major.  It wouldn't have stopped her from being able to do it at all.

 

As a side note, I am currently in college myself.  I'm having to do exactly that.  I never took anything past Algebra 2 in high school, so I'm having to play catch up math at college.  Not my favorite, but completely doable.

 

[SporkUK]

I do to a point - I balance their ideas with where they are now, how well they're doing, how they are feeling about maths, and my ability to teach it alongside their siblings' maths. 

 

My about to be Year 6 child has been doing MEP for maths all the way through, often finds the patterns before I teach them, and generally gets maths but struggles with complex word problems and wandering brain. He usually loves maths but really wants a break from MEP so he can spent more time on other things which I'm more than fine with, but he also really wants to go to the University Technical College which is Year 10 entry and gives extra classes for those struggling with English, Maths, and Sciences, but doing so would cost him doing Computer Science and/or a language which he doesn't want to give up. So, we've looked through some things and landed on Math Essentials (the Middle School book then problem solving) as it is video taught and is said to be able to be done in 20 minutes and then go back to MEP for secondary levels when he can do it mostly by computer. He's been set on his idea for a while (he wants to build robots that help people, the UTC gives him access to big robotics and a chance at work experience and apprenticeship with companies that do that) but even if he changed his mind this will set him up well for maths GCSEs which he'll be taking anyways. 

 

Looking at where they are emotionally and in ability, where they want to be, and making a plan that allows for change is possible and for us is the goal. Seeing how what we're doing fits with his goals and that we can change things to fit him and still get there or elsewhere has only encouraged him. 

 

 I think your plan is sound - 9th grade for Algebra 1 is still quite good and if both like the programme you're using then keep it. 

[8filltheheart]

My answer to the question in general is that my kids continue to progress forward each yr with math, whatever that level might be. Starting all in 9th grade is very much a normal progression. There are students who want to pursue STEM careers who haven't started alg earlier than 9th. Following that path does keep all doors open for your dd.

 

(This conversation is very different than one where someone suggests dropping math at alg bc their dd wants to pursue beautician or culinary arts and the child is only in 7th grade.)

 

Fwiw, I do believe we need to educate our children in a way that provides them for all opportunities they might consider in the future. The future does not take care of itself. They can reach adult unequipped to deal with the future they arrive in. I have a child who dwells there. His future is limited. It is not something you want for your child. (In our ds's case it is the opposite problem. He was educated for a college bound career but he is incapable of coping with that level of independence and stress. We should have done a better job equipping him with a realistic trade.)

[kiana]

Another voice for Algebra 1 in 9th is totally reasonable. Keep doing CLE since it's working.

 

If she keeps with her plan of being a hairdresser, I'd look into a high school consumer math book for senior year -- senior year is early enough for a student to choose, and it would be a useful elective. I wouldn't worry about which one now -- when it gets close to that time, if her plans have not changed, rainbow resource lists several options. 

[regentrude]

So, with that being said, does whether or not you push your child ahead quicker with math depend on what their life goals are? Do you think they really know what their true life goals will be at this age? Do you think you can gauge this on the child by this age, their personalities, abilities, interests, etc?

 

It is futile to push a child to go ahead quicker with math. Math is not a race; the goal has to be a thorough understanding and mastery, at whatever pace the child is capable of, up whatever level the child is able to master in the time she is in school.

A child who is not ready for algebra will benefit greatly from being given the time to cement prealgebra; in my work as a college instructor I encounter frequently students who have gaps there that make all later math stand on a shaky foundation. Algebra in 9th grade is perfectly fine. And this would be my strong recommendation even if the child had voiced an interest in being a scientist or engineer!

 

This said: when I set the math goals for school, I do not consider the child's ideas for the future. My kids may choose to put in more time and cover even more math, but they may not choose to quit math. My goals is not to close doors. The fact that my DS envisions a career in sports does not change the fact that he will take calculus in 12th grade because he is capable and on track.

[Dmmetler]

We diverged in Pre-Algebra and did quite a bit of statistics because DD had started reading scientific papers and needed to understand it. We're also currently diverging from our Algebra path to do a quick run through of the math covered on the SAT that she hasn't had, because she needs to take the SAT to get into a particular program.

 

So, I guess my answer is "when she needs it". Regardless, my plan is a solid math background at home through calculus so she's prepared for college level work. In DD's case, she plans to major in biology or zoology, but that would be true even if she planned to be a music major (as I was) or a business major, or an early childhood education major. I've been a college faculty advisor long enough to know a lot of kids change majors and math is the most common obstacle in many degree paths.

[Amy in NH]

I have a homeschool graduate who was brilliant at math, and is now a junior engineering student.  Knowing he would have to take calculus at university regardless of whether or not he had done it at home, we decided to finish his homeschool math with a strong foundation in Pre-Calc.

 

I have a homeschool graduate who was excellent at math, but unmotivated.  He did Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry, and finished with Consumer Math.  He was not interested in going to university (maybe someday), so I thought it was more important for him to learn checkbooks, mortgages, etc. as he went directly out into the real world. 

 

I have two still at home who struggle in math (same environment, same exposure, different genes!) and we have taken our time with laying a solid foundation in the basics.  13yo 8th grader will be doing Pre-Algebra this year, and that's just fine.  For the past year or two his goal has been to become an electrician, which does need math but not so much as engineering.  He will probably do the same track as sibling #2.  However, if he changed his mind and decided to go into engineering he still has time to finish our homeschool with PreCalc.

[reign]

Algebra 1 in 8th isn't necessary for most students, and more studies are showing that it is actually detrimental.

I agree Algebra 1 isn't necessary for everyone in 8th grade but I've never heard that it was detrimental. Do you remember where you found that?

[mom31257]

I agree Algebra 1 isn't necessary for everyone in 8th grade but I've never heard that it was detrimental. Do you remember where you found that?

Here's one article, but there are many questioning the practice of pushing Algebra 1down.

 

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865577774/New-research-says-the-push-to-have-students-take-algebra-by-8th-grade-has-hurt-not-help-students.html?pg=all&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F%3Fref%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

[kiana]

I agree Algebra 1 isn't necessary for everyone in 8th grade but I've never heard that it was detrimental. Do you remember where you found that?

 

Pushing *everyone* into algebra 1 regardless of preparedness is what they're talking about. While I absolutely, 100% think that prepared students should be encouraged to take algebra 1, I find it utterly and completely ludicrous to make it the *lowest* math class allowed. 

[Guest ladycropper]

Amy in NH ... which curriculum did you use? 

[Amy in NH]

Amy in NH ... which curriculum did you use? 

 

The older kids started out with Miquon and then went into Sinagpore 3 or 4 up through 6, and finished elementary math with Key to Fraction/Decimal/Metric to make sure they really had a strong and complete foundation before doing Chalkdust starting with PreAlgebra.  Miquon wasn't a good fit for younger kids, so we started over with Singapore 1 after much frustration and a brain-maturity rote-memorization-of-math-facts break using xtramath.org.

 

ETA: This worked out very well for oldest who was a National Merit Finalist and was awarded major scholarship money as a result.