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Kinsa

What are you hearing locally about the Ashley Madison fallout?

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Um, there aren't any states without prostitutes. Men in North Dakota who want to pay for it can find it.

I am not naive. However, there are places where "services" are more plentiful,robust, and easily accessed, DC being one area very well k n own for this.

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How can public humiliation be considered a natural consequence for something that isn't a public 'sin' (for lack of a better word)?

 

These things go public all the time. We hear about them constantly. Just not usually on such a big scale. When it's the local pastor or teacher or a coworker, your local community talks about it. When it's an actor or a politician, it makes headlines. People talking about your affair is a very natural consequence of having one. It's the consequence of doing anything that most people agree is wrong.

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A couple of guys at my brother's place of work are going down for using company credit cards to AM subscriptions.

 

You can't cure stupid! It does however beg the question, "Is anyone paying attention to what employees do with company issued credit cards?"

 

Brings to mind the old saying "thinking with your little head instead of your big head." :closedeyes:

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Doxing can entail a few things. Mostly it involves publishing personal information about a person on the internet, generally for malicious intent. For example, when the actress Felicia Day spoke out about sexual harassment in the gamer world, something she had personal experience with, it took about 5 mins for her home address and a whole host of other very personal information to be posted across several sites. Other women have have been doxxed and gotten emails from people claiming to be sitting outside their house and describing their children.  Why? Because someone didn't agree with them. A good hacker with a bad attitude can find an amazing amount of information about someone by looking across different records etc. 

 

But with something like 'exposing you as a homeschooler' it would be more like (and this is not my opinion, ok?) some minor figure like Bill Maher makes one of his snarky comments about inbred bible thumping homeschoolers whose kids are so stupid we are all better off not having them in the school system. And, hey, they may breed like nymphomaniacial rabbits, but at least they are bone ignorant so the rest of us are safe.  Then some fanboy hackers on some sub redit decide that homeschoolers are just the worst. One of them comes across the Rainbow site and thinks its a total hoot. They spend a couple days posting descriptions of some of the more choice anti-evolution or character education offerings and then they get bored and decide to hack (or one of them does...I am not sure this is all that organized) and post whatever information that Rainbow keeps about its customers.  Credit card numbers, home addresses, names, phone numbers, email addresses and account passwords.  They are telling the sewer dwellers of the internet to have at us.

 

Even just getting a rainbow account password and an email address can be very damaging.  So many people use the same passwords across accounts that getting access to one account almost guarantees access to a host of others.  And all they have to do is read your email to find out where else you do business.  Now they know where your husband works and who your parents are, where you go to church.  How much fun for them. They won't get into everyone's email, but they will get enough to have work with.

 

You start getting disgusting emails with graphic threats or your facebook gets hacked and disgusting things are sent out under your name. Maybe your husband's place of work also gets hacked. Maybe your church. Maybe your mom suddenly has to spend all her time on the phone because someone has taken out a credit card in her name.  These people know where you live and some of them might not be far away.  And they seem to have an endless supply of free time.  Plus, if you are worried about identity theft now, imagine if you've been doxxed? It will never end and cost you a lot of time and money to deal with.

 

Now imagine if there are thousands of us dealing with this all at once. 

 

So, you know, off the top of my head, before coffee, that is how it could be bad to be a doxxed homeschooer. I can't imagine how it is going to help the mostly women who are finding out the hard way that their husbands have been paying a whole lot of money to find a f%^& buddy.

 

This particular group of hackers has said that it has done this from a sense of moral outrage.  Ok, I get that. But just how much outrage do they have? Are they dangerous? They have decided they are judge and jury...anyone out there also feeling like executioner? Or blackmailer? On this thread we have heard of one suicide and a number of firings.  The hack isn't done yet, there was another major release on, I think Wednesday. What else is to come?  Who else is next on their list?

 

So, it is titliating, and I absolutely admit to some schadenfreude when it comes to outing hypocritical idiots who wrap themselves in the "family values" flag while they spend all their free time reading nasty websites and typing with their left hand.  But doxing isn't a joke and as a tactic shouldn't be taken lightly. It is a big deal for anyone. It isn't an issue of 'I'm not doing anything wrong so who cares who sees' but an issue of personal safety.

 

I can separate the two issues. I am not defending the users of AM in any way. I am just trying to draw attention to realities of this tactic and also express my concerns about the group behind this.  All I have heard is that they are Canadian and they don't like adultery. But, what if they announced they were some...I dunno... some Taliban group, or ISIS, or a tool of the Kremlin, trying to point out the hypocrisy of the morally corrupt west. The result would be the same. They aren't, as far as we know, but would that still make this a tabloid story?

 

Absolutely spot on.  It doesn't have to be the government (although it certainly could be, and I worry more about the government because once it's given government sanction, all bets are truly off).  But regardless, this kind of information in the hands of people with an agenda... it could end very, very badly for anyone who has an opinion about anything.   

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Just wanted to say that my husband is in information security, and the basic thought is infosec isn't if you will be hacked, it's when. There is NOTHING you can do to totally prevent it. Nothing. The best you can do is make it not worth the effort, by making it take a long time, or make the data not as interesting, but that doesn't offer a guarantee. But, yes, these companies should be held to certain standards, at the very least. His job is basically trying to convince the heads of a fortune 500 company what needs to be done, and that it is worth the internal hassels and the money to do so. Thankfully, in the last few years that has gotten to be an easier sell because of all the major hacking scandals. 

The complete lack of privacy being protected in our society is a serious problem and as long as big money gets to keep their share, they don't seem to care about the data info being hacked, stolen, or misused. And it's all those clients who get screwed by it. It doesn't matter if it's the IRS, your local hospital, or Target. They don't seem to suffer anything for the damage they inflict on their clients by the lack of security. Clients suffer the financial nightmare for years with little or no justice for it. And in the mean time, the average joe in our society really doesn't have much say in where his information goes or what happens to it. And we aren't given much say in whether we even want to give it. Sure in this case those people did, but there's many others where we don't.

I think extremely harsh financial and other legal penalties for failure to have secure sites and to disclose data collection are called for. And I'd be okay with something similiar to the IRS to evaluate and sanction such. The penalties should be so harsh that these companies start investing in some major security efforts to avoid them. The lack of willingness to invest in security is a big problem. They play Russian roulette with client data figuring the cost of security now against a possible cost of PR repair later is very worth it. And currently, it is. We need to change that attitude.
 

 

 

 

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*pulls out the miniature violins and plays Cry Me A River*

 

Nope, do not feel sorry for a bunch of cheaters. Not at all. Public humiliation is the natural consequence of their stupidity.

 

I don't feel sorry for the cheaters but I do feel sorry for the spouses and children that also end up also being publicly humiliated.

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*pulls out the miniature violins and plays Cry Me A River*

 

Nope, do not feel sorry for a bunch of cheaters. Not at all. Public humiliation is the natural consequence of their stupidity.

 

I agree, but part of me does feel awful that the women who were cheated on have to have their marriages in the limelight. But better to know than no know. Also, if the men lose their jobs, that effects the women. Although, from what I know of corporate culture, cheating isn't really frowned upon. 

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I am not naive. However, there are places where "services" are more plentiful,robust, and easily accessed, DC being one area very well k n own for this.

 

ND just happens to be a poor example. Due to the oil boom, they also have a prostitution and sex trafficking boom.

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How can public humiliation be considered a natural consequence for something that isn't a public 'sin' (for lack of a better word)?

 

I think anyone who engages in an affair is accepting the risk that the affair become known.  It's stupid to think otherwise.  So yeah, back in the day it may only have become known in the little community surrounding the person, but in this day and age the "community" is now huge and interconnected.

 

By purposely taking something that belongs within your private marital relationship *outside* of that relationship, you are entering the public realm.  JMHO!

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I agree, but part of me does feel awful that the women who were cheated on have to have their marriages in the limelight. But better to know than no know. Also, if the men lose their jobs, that effects the women. Although, from what I know of corporate culture, cheating isn't really frowned upon.

Very true. They are the ones I feel sorry for. The spouses and children.

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How can public humiliation be considered a natural consequence for something that isn't a public 'sin' (for lack of a better word)?

I consider exposure of a secret one natural consequence of trying to keep information hidden. Risk of exposure is inherent in keeping secrets.

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I am guessing that this was more of a scam on the part of AM. I am betting that a whole lot of men were catfished into keeping those accounts open on the promise of meeting a real live girl. Now THAT would have been a very worthwhile thing to uncover: take down the owners of AM for perpetuating a fraud. I am not saying these men are not their own victims, far from it.

 

 

This is what I was wondering about. Were the hackers upset that there was a site for people who wanted to cheat on their spouse? Or were they upset that AM misrepresented the # of women on the site and the probability that one would actually get to have an affair?

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ND just happens to be a poor example. Due to the oil boom, they also have a prostitution and sex trafficking boom.

I should have used my area instead. Prostitution is very limited here according to police and FBI statistics. The population base is low and everyone knows everyone else. It makes it very hard to set up a thriving sex trade that is profitable.

 

The point I was making was that while most of these AM guys may not have had opportunity, there are some areas in which it is very easy to engage in the sex trade.

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I should have used my area instead. Prostitution is very limited here according to police and FBI statistics. The population base is low and everyone knows everyone else. It makes it very hard to set up a thriving sex trade that is profitable.

 

The point I was making was that while most of these AM guys may not have had opportunity, there are some areas in which it is very easy to engage in the sex trade.

 

Oh, I know. I just recently saw a documentary about trafficking in ND, so that's why it stuck out to me. Sad stuff, in any event.

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Just wanted to say that my husband is in information security, and the basic thought is infosec isn't if you will be hacked, it's when. There is NOTHING you can do to totally prevent it. Nothing. The best you can do is make it not worth the effort, by making it take a long time, or make the data not as interesting, but that doesn't offer a guarantee. But, yes, these companies should be held to certain standards, at the very least. His job is basically trying to convince the heads of a fortune 500 company what needs to be done, and that it is worth the internal hassels and the money to do so. Thankfully, in the last few years that has gotten to be an easier sell because of all the major hacking scandals.

Right. I'm not saying it can be made impossible. Not at all. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. But there is no way it should be so easy. It's nuts how many companies "security" of client data is equivalent to leave a wad of cash in the driver's seat of an unlocked car with the keys. It's gross negligence. Saying something can't ever be 100% prevented doesn't absolve them of the duty to take reasonable preventative measures.

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I don't feel sorry for the cheaters but I do feel sorry for the spouses and children that also end up also being publicly humiliated.

 

Yes, but from their perspective, is it worse to be cheated on and everyone to know? Or better to be cheated on and even you don't know? Personally, I'd rather know.

 

And keeping in mind that in this particular case, so many people are on the list that unless your name is Josh Duggar, most people aren't going to even notice. Just another guy (or girl) out of millions.

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Ok I'm going to play the devils advocate for a minute here....

So let's say that one of these people - we will say a man, though I know there were legitimately women on the site, too - gets exposed for being on the site.

Let's say his family and friends hear about it and are appalled.

Let's say that his wife chooses to stay by him and work through everything,

I think this being such a huge public thing is bad for this reason. Everyone knows *their* business. People will be urging the wife to leave him/divorce him/whatever, when it's just not their place to have a say in it.

At the same time, is there even proof that these members were active on the site? What if someone signed up in a moment of stupidity - they will now be branded by their acquaintances/friends/family for a long time. Even if they were active, moments of stupidity. I can't just sit here and say that every person who ever does something stupid deserves public humiliation.

This could stick with these people for awhile, at least amongst their social circles.

Maybe people IRL are more forgiving and forgetful than I remember, but the people I've known who had extramarital affairs IRL pretty much live with a huge stigma for years afterward. And I personally don't think that's okay, which is why I say I do feel for all of those involved.

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I'm trying to dredge up sympathy for stupid...but I can't.

 

It's not like all these names have been published on big lists outside our front doors so we can't help but know who of our friends, family and neighbours had an account.

 

If you've just been ordinary stupid, and signed up with a home email, rather than really stupid, and signed up with a work email, who is going to be looking for your name ? Spouses with suspicions and who else ?  Spouses still have the option to deal with what they find publicly or privately, most of the time.

 

There are millions of names. Besides JD I wouldn't have a clue who any of them were. Most people will not have a clue. 

 

The media reporting I have heard has been very careful not to name names, except when there is an obvious public interest (and, let's face it, click bait ). Too bad, so sad about that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Maybe people IRL are more forgiving and forgetful than I remember, but the people I've known who had extramarital affairs IRL pretty much live with a huge stigma for years afterward.

 

It amazes me what people can do and suffer no consequences whatever. People forgive, forget, or never hear about it in the first place because other people are too afraid to tell.

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Idk, it's possible that I view this through a very different lens bc I know and love ppl very, very much who have had affairs in the past.

It's not my relationship, but I've seen the fallout from it and it breaks my heart - not just for the people around them hurt by it, but for them, too. Just because I can't understand the situation or how they thought it was an acceptable idea doesn't mean I think they 'deserve' negative public fallout.

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Stats posted from Carolina sources...

 

 

charleston.af.mil x 4

charleston-sc.gov x 1

dhec.sc.gov x 1

ed.sc.gov x 1

greenwoodsc.gov x 2

grucharleston.uscg.mil x 2

jaspercountysc.gov x 1

nesucharleston.uscg.mil x 1

sc.gov x 1

spawar.navy.mil x 5

 

Plus work emails from 15 South Carolina school districts.

Given the lack of consequences to the former SC governor and now senator who disappeared while serving as governor to hook up with his Argentinian mistress, I'm guessing no one will give a crap about small change like a random person with an AM account.

 

A couple of friends in Virginia have been talking about someone posting the names and addresses of local people with accounts on local FB groups in Fairfax and Alexandria. Not email address, but by billing address. I haven't heard of anything like that local to me.

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Yes, but from their perspective, is it worse to be cheated on and everyone to know? Or better to be cheated on and even you don't know? Personally, I'd rather know.

 

It'd be difficult as a wife but no, I'd never want my kids to suffer that type of humiliation.

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Idk, it's possible that I view this through a very different lens bc I know and love ppl very, very much who have had affairs in the past.

It's not my relationship, but I've seen the fallout from it and it breaks my heart - not just for the people around them hurt by it, but for them, too. Just because I can't understand the situation or how they thought it was an acceptable idea doesn't mean I think they 'deserve' negative public fallout.

I've seen the fallout also. The secrets are seen as a larger issue then the public fallout.

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Given the lack of consequences to the former SC governor and now senator who disappeared while serving as governor to hook up with his Argentinian mistress, I'm guessing no one will give a crap about small change like a random person with an AM account.

 

A couple of friends in Virginia have been talking about someone posting the names and addresses of local people with accounts on local FB groups in Fairfax and Alexandria. Not email address, but by billing address. I haven't heard of anything like that local to me.

Pretty much. And anyone who says anything will be advised of being a liberal troll :/

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I skimmed the thread to see if someone already posted. I didn't see it, but if I missed it I apologize in advance for repeating.

 

Jeff Ashton - Gained fame nationally as the prosecutor in the Casey Anthony case. Ran for and won the State Attorney position for two nearby counties. He claims he signed up out of curiosity but never actually did anything. 

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Idk about "deserving" public fallout, but the spouse in the dark certainly deserves to know and for that I'm glad the hackers/revealers did what they did. Now everybody can make decisions in the light, not the least of which is getting tested for and addressing the potential of STIs.

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