DD's request to tape a lecture....

[Laurel-in-CA]

in her English 1 class brought a suggestion from the prof that she talk to the Disabilities Dept. She explained when she asked the teacher about it that she has trouble listening and taking notes at the same time.

 

This is my "school is hard" kiddo. We had her tested in jr. high and she tested 2 points above "needs services." She graduated high school with a basic, non college-prep diploma. I think with this history, knowing her challenges, she was smart to ask for this assistance, but apparently the prof wants some kind of approval to allow it.

 

Have never done this with a college at all; it's our local community college and dd is 18 so I am thinking that I should NOT get personally involved. I am just wondering if anyone has any suggestions I can give her, if you know what kind of testing they might recommend, what kind of accommodations might be allowed if she is determined to need assistance. It's borderline...but she is really intimidated by the writing this class will require, yet wants to continue and succeed. She's a very conscientious kid and this is her only academic class this semester (she planned for it to be a challenge).

 

Thanks for any insight you can give me.

[J-rap]

I'm kind of surprised that the teacher wouldn't let her record it.  I just figured some students did that.  But, I guess it makes sense that it would be up to each teacher.

 

Just today, I emailed my daughter's college disability office (she's transferring there in a week or so).  She has a hearing loss and wears hearing adds, although it's usually not a problem.  She'll usually ask to sit in front if it is.  I told the office that I don't foresee a problem, and this was their response:

 

"Generally speaking professors at ****** are used to any student requests going through our office, so she might have a professor ask her if she is working with us. Of course, it is up to her if she If she wants to register with our office and meet with one of our disability specialists."

 

In other words, it seems more the norm now for any special requests to go through the disability services office.  I'd suggest that you or your daughter talk to them.  Perhaps just explaining her situation will be enough to get approval to record lectures.

[G5052]

Yes, at the local community college where I work, any requests to record must go through the disability coordinator.  Unfortunately that came about because of a lawsuit. I don't know the details, but that was what I was told.

 

I actually emailed him about this because of an earlier thread, and he said in a case where a student doesn't have formal testing but wants to record because that is best how they learn, he just registers them and gives them a letter to that effect. In other words, no testing required for recording if you feel that you need that, but you do have to meet with him.

 

Ultimately you have to see what the college requires.

[jenn-]

Did the teacher actually tell her no or was the teacher possibly trying to suggest that she will need it in formal writing at some point? One teacher might be nice about it, but another one might not be and the teacher knows the best solution is to get it in writing that the teachers are required to let her do it.

[TechWife]

I'm not surprised. 

 

Go to the college's web site and look for their disability service office. It will be called something like Student Disability Services or Office of Disability Services. They should have information somewhere on their site about what type of documentation they require. 

 

If all she wants to do is record, it might not be a big deal. But, the university  might be able to provide other things that will be of even more help to her.

 

Don't let the fact that she didn't qualify for services in high school discourage her. College is an entirely different ball game. They do not have the same standards that high schools have, nor do they provide the same types of services. The focus is entirely different. In high school, the focus is for the child to succeed, in college, it's to ensure that they have equal access. 

 

 

 

[Starr]

Our local colleges insist on adult normed testing for accommodative services. That said some professors will work with you without the formality. 

[Mom22ns]

I'm not surprised. 

 

Go to the college's web site and look for their disability service office. It will be called something like Student Disability Services or Office of Disability Services. They should have information somewhere on their site about what type of documentation they require. 

 

If all she wants to do is record, it might not be a big deal. But, the university  might be able to provide other things that will be of even more help to her.

 

Don't let the fact that she didn't qualify for services in high school discourage her. College is an entirely different ball game. They do not have the same standards that high schools have, nor do they provide the same types of services. The focus is entirely different. In high school, the focus is for the child to succeed, in college, it's to ensure that they have equal access. 

 

This.

 

Go meet with disability services. They can tell you what if any documentation that she will need to be able to make the request through them. We have found disability services to be super friendly and helpful. I promise they won't bite. Every college will have a different set of requirements to get services, so no one here can tell you what she will need. She just needs to make an appointment and go. It might be more than you are willing to do to get the documentation, but it might also be very easy. Try.

[lmrich]

I think it wise for the professor to ask her to go through the department. The department may offer a host of services she does not know about. 

[Lolly]

The school will want official medical testing for disabilities. It is not cheap. The school might offer it at a reduced rate, or you may be able to go to a larger university with a psychology department for a lower rate. (I have found that option to be well priced, but ridiculously intensive. They basically use the students as guinea pigs to take every single psych survey every single psych student is currently pursuing...At least the one I took dd to once. I am told they eventually get around to the tests we needed, but I didn't have that much time and gas money to waste!) If she is found to have a disability, her accomodations would depend on the diagnosis. Most likely she would be allowed to record the class, be provided with notes taken by someone else (often a student in the class who is paid for their service), and have extra time on tests and in class assignments (often must be done in the tutor center). Getting everything together and approved will likely give her no benefit for this semester because of the time involved.

 

Unfortunately, my dds' experience with disability offices have been less than stellar. It is a fight to be allowed services. One of mine has a physical disablity. Hers is not obvious, but even if she was completely missing both arms, she would have to have medical documentation of the fact in order to be allowed to have an alternate form of note and test taking. No one in the offices seems to be able to get the right forms. It takes months to get it all arranged. My dyslexic dd had the proper documentation, but the head of the disability department (different school) was exceptionally rude and made things as difficult as possible. Almost two years later I think we know why...This summer when dd went in to request teachers be notified of her disability (must be done for each class each semester) in order to receive extra time on tests the $#%# (the memory of trying to talk to her is that unpleasant) was very nice and let dd know that she was quite surprised that she had been so successful in college (Dean's list every semester) that she expected her to fail out(dd was never given accommodations on ACT due to tiny errors by the psychologist/counselor on the application each time and had horrid scores as a result)...

[Laurel-in-CA]

OK, then. Sounds like she will need to get on top of this and have a speech prepared as her high school grades (for the easier diploma) are high, but all done independent self-study, not in a lecture format. Hoping they will simply give her permission to record!!

[TechWife]

OK, then. Sounds like she will need to get on top of this and have a speech prepared as her high school grades (for the easier diploma) are high, but all done independent self-study, not in a lecture format. Hoping they will simply give her permission to record!!

 

They won't even look at her high school grades or transcript. High school is irrelevant to disability services. 

 

ETA: Accommodations received or denied during high school are also irrelevant. 

 

 

[TechWife]

The school will want official medical testing for disabilities. It is not cheap. The school might offer it at a reduced rate, or you may be able to go to a larger university with a psychology department for a lower rate. (I have found that option to be well priced, but ridiculously intensive. They basically use the students as guinea pigs to take every single psych survey every single psych student is currently pursuing...At least the one I took dd to once. I am told they eventually get around to the tests we needed, but I didn't have that much time and gas money to waste!) If she is found to have a disability, her accomodations would depend on the diagnosis. Most likely she would be allowed to record the class, be provided with notes taken by someone else (often a student in the class who is paid for their service), and have extra time on tests and in class assignments (often must be done in the tutor center). Getting everything together and approved will likely give her no benefit for this semester because of the time involved.

 

 

 

This was not our experience at all. The large university we tested through (on two different occasions) only did the tests that needed to be done. There are a lot of tests to get the big picture of what was going on, but they did no unnecessary testing. 

 

Universities are only required to provide what they deem to be "reasonable accommodations" and every university gets to decide what they deem reasonable and how they will deliver that accommodation. 

 

Diagnosis does not indicate the need for accommodations. Testing reports must include information on how the student's academic performance is impacted by the disability, the recommended accommodations and often the benefit of receiving the accommodations. 

 

There most definitely can be benefit for this semester. My son was tested several times throughout his elementary and high school years. The time elapsed between the time the appointments were made and the final report is written can be as little as three weeks, which gives plenty of time for significant accommodations to be of assistance. 

 

Additionally, if you think the report does not include information it should, includes information you don't think it should or isn't worded correctly, then the client should request that the report be re-written. It happens quite frequently. A good evaluator will do so unless they disagree with the accuracy of the request. 

[Gwen in VA]

My daughter has Type 1 diabetes, not a learning disability, so our experience may be atypical, but .....

 

1) We have dealt with accommodations at three colleges (long story there....) All three had VERY set policies, and as long as you followed the set policies they were reasonable to deal with.

2) If a doctor said an accommodations was required, no questions were asked. Any accommodation not listed by the doctor was automatically suspect.

3) For legal reasons (according to a very close friend who is a dean of students), accommodations must  be requested and legal formalities must be followed. Some profs will just "be nice", but colleges discourage this for legal reasons -- bending the way things are done can be seen as unfair to other students if things are not handled according to the accommodations documentation.

[Mom22ns]

Ds who received accommodations for testing through ACT and College Board and has accommodations in place through disability services at his University, has NEVER had medical testing. Do not let other's experiences intimidate you. He has had testing through the public schools and we did have a Psychologist prepared to write a letter of support, but that wasn't even needed for the college. 

 

High school, grades, etc are not part of the picture. Only if there is a disability present and what is needed to accommodate. The college may be able to refer to those they work with often in the area or know about any local university resources. 

 

We were told the CC in our area is super easy to get accommodations through. A referral letter from the Psychologist has apparently worked before and he would have given that after just a couple of hours of reasonably priced testing.

[klmama]

Every school is different.  I just looked online at the accommodation requirements at the college dc attends.  Disability verification needs to be recent - within the past two years - and needs to come from a medical professional with expertise in the specific field.  So, no pediatrician or GP referrals - they need to come from neuropsychologist, orthopedist, ophthalmologist, etc. 

[Lolly]

This was not our experience at all. The large university we tested through (on two different occasions) only did the tests that needed to be done. There are a lot of tests to get the big picture of what was going on, but they did no unnecessary testing. 

 

Universities are only required to provide what they deem to be "reasonable accommodations" and every university gets to decide what they deem reasonable and how they will deliver that accommodation. 

 

Diagnosis does not indicate the need for accommodations. Testing reports must include information on how the student's academic performance is impacted by the disability, the recommended accommodations and often the benefit of receiving the accommodations. 

 

There most definitely can be benefit for this semester. My son was tested several times throughout his elementary and high school years. The time elapsed between the time the appointments were made and the final report is written can be as little as three weeks, which gives plenty of time for significant accommodations to be of assistance. 

 

Additionally, if you think the report does not include information it should, includes information you don't think it should or isn't worded correctly, then the client should request that the report be re-written. It happens quite frequently. A good evaluator will do so unless they disagree with the accuracy of the request. 

 

Dd was started off with questionaire about suicidal thoughts and general attitudes towards random social things. They required something like 5 separate sessions over five weeks. It was totally different from the professional evaluation that was later done.(On the upside, my money was refunded when I complained and canceled the next appointment.) The report that all 3 colleges we have dealt with want includes a diagnosis and recommended accommodations. Part of the time problem we encountered was the wait for an appointment. Dd's orthopedic appointment required a one month wait (with begging). The other dd's appointment required a 3 month wait to get in with the doctor. That was the fastest in a one hour drive (I checked with many/most just said sorry they were not taking new patients). Then, testing required 3 separate visits in addition to the first get to know you session. (More than most, dd truly does require extra time for things.) I must admit that I did not consider her to be a good evaluator. She ended up having dd sit in an uncomfortable chair in her waiting room to finish a portion of her testing because it was taking her so long. Kind of nullified those results when she put her in a busy waiting area with little kids to test...

Every school is different.  I just looked online at the accommodation requirements at the college dc attends.  Disability verification needs to be recent - within the past two years - and needs to come from a medical professional with expertise in the specific field.  So, no pediatrician or GP referrals - they need to come from neuropsychologist, orthopedist, ophthalmologist, etc.

 

This has been the policy with all 3 schools we have dealt with.

[Pegasus]

One simple alternative would just be to have your DD ask another classmate to copy their notes afterwards.  She can then focus on listening during the class.  She should look around and find someone who scribbles notes furiously. I was this person when I was in college and in one particular fast & furious lecture class, I had several classmates borrow my notes regularly.

[Kareni]

One simple alternative would just be to have your DD ask another classmate to copy their notes afterwards.  She can then focus on listening during the class.  She should look around and find someone who scribbles notes furiously. I was this person when I was in college and in one particular fast & furious lecture class, I had several classmates borrow my notes regularly.

 

I had this thought, too.  She might try to make arrangements to copy the notes of two different people (to cover absences). 

 

If she's making a formal arrangement with this/these student/s, perhaps she can offer a small amount of cash or a regular supply of cookies!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Mom22ns]

One simple alternative would just be to have your DD ask another classmate to copy their notes afterwards.  She can then focus on listening during the class.  She should look around and find someone who scribbles notes furiously. I was this person when I was in college and in one particular fast & furious lecture class, I had several classmates borrow my notes regularly.

 

Instead of copying them, asking them to take notes on 2 part paper where they can just hand her the copy after class would be easier. That is what ds's disability services does for note-takers. She could offer to provide the paper.

[Laurel-in-CA]

One simple alternative would just be to have your DD ask another classmate to copy their notes afterwards.  She can then focus on listening during the class.  She should look around and find someone who scribbles notes furiously. I was this person when I was in college and in one particular fast & furious lecture class, I had several classmates borrow my notes regularly.

Thank you, Pegasus. This is a great idea, and one that will motivate dd to make friends in her class, which is not so big as to be intimidating!

 

Especially useful since dd talked with the Disability dept. and they would need to do testing to confirm before offering any accommodation. Testing will take some time, as it's already difficult to find a time she's not working or in class when their office is open, let alone scheduling testing. An interim solution is a wonderful thought!

 

PS -- Payment in cookies is something she already knows a lot about doing, LOL.

[Reefgazer]

This is probably your quickest immediate solution to her problem:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Camera-Voice-Recorder-Memory/dp/B00ENVSUUO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440213532&sr=8-1&keywords=tape+recording+pen

 

I allow my students to tape my lectures, but many of my coworkers do not.  The ones that don't allow it take that stand because one prof at the college where I teach had her recorded lecture altered and posted online in an attempt to paint her as racist, so now lots of profs don't allow it in an attempt to prevent their lectures from being altered. 

 

If you go the disability services route, be aware that the accommodations don't have to be made retroactively, so by the time your DD gets the medical documentation and disability services documentation, it may not benefit her this term.  Did the prof flat-out refuse to allow taping, or did he just suggest that she see disability services?  He has likely been told to automatically refer someone who has learning issues to disability services and does so without further thought because he 1) genuinely thinks that is the best/only option for the student, or 2) doesn't want to make any accommodations he doesn't legally have to make.  If the prof didn't flat-out refuse the taping request, could your DD approach him again and just ask for that one consideration until she gets her disability records in order?  If not, I would buy the above pen and quietly use it.

 

ETA:  Check the online Blackboard site for the class; the prof may have put the audio of the class lecture up on Blackboard already anyway (although I suppose he would have mentioned it if he had, but you never know).

[TechWife]

This is probably your quickest immediate solution to her problem:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Camera-Voice-Recorder-Memory/dp/B00ENVSUUO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440213532&sr=8-1&keywords=tape+recording+pen

 

 

 

The professor has asked her to go through the disability services office, so it would be unethical to use this without his permission. Should she gain permission, LiveScribe is a great tool that she could use, and they may have them in the disability services office for her to check out. 

[Mom22ns]

My ds takes notes using Notability on the iPad. It has a record feature too. If she wants to record discreetly, she could go with one of the technology methods that would make recording discreet.

 

I agree doing this would depend on if he said, "No, you can only do that if you have written permission from disability services." Or if he said, "If you are interested in recording the lectures you should speak to disability services." In case 1, obviously it would be unethical to record. However, in case 2, she talked to disability service and wasn't told not to record, so it become a bit gray. Some people would be comfortable going ahead and recording in that circumstance, some wouldn't.

[ktgrok]

Agree with the livescribe pens!

[Laurel-in-CA]

Thanks for the info on the pen. The prof said she needed to go thru the Disability dept. I will have dd check on a buddy for notes and whether audios of lectures are available. I think she should talk to the prof again, let her know she's talked to disability services and is going to pursue testing but needs a solution to help her for this semester.  We will see what comes of it. Thanks so much for all your advice.

[Reefgazer]

*Shrug*  I'd use it anyway.

The professor has asked her to go through the disability services office, so it would be unethical to use this without his permission. Should she gain permission, LiveScribe is a great tool that she could use, and they may have them in the disability services office for her to check out. 

 

[Laurel-in-CA]

Second essay assignment....tears, impossibility, panick (driven by procrastination and anxiety). A bit too much help from me....after an hour of discussion of how to arrange, what might be main points. I went to bed @ midnight and have no idea when she finished.

 

Took the rough draft in for peer review....fear and trembling replaced by amazement at peer's positive comments. 

 

Seriously, I think I need to go out of town when her next assignment is due.

 

Still hasn't gotten into the center for any LD testing. Oh how I wish she would!! OTOH, she has full-day classes T/Th and is working M/W/F/Sat. Can't complain about her work ethic, only her procrastination.

[klmama]

Hooray for your good writer!  After this experience, she'll probably have less anxiety next time and will procrastinate less. 

 

Does she have enough time open in her work schedule to get any assignments done during the day, or does she only study in the evenings?  If she doesn't work Monday, maybe she can spend the day getting ahead in some of her classes to reduce her stress for next week. 

[happypamama]

Does her school offer a professional note taking service? My (huge) university did; they paid regular students who were taking the class to take and type notes (anonymously) for certain classes, which other students could buy for a small fee. As I understood it, the professors weren't huge fans because they thought they encouraged students not to come to class, but there was nothing they could do about it. Whether or not she gets accommodations, she might look into something like that to cover anything she misses.

[Dmmetler]

Recording is an accommodation that's gotten harder to get. It used to be that (back in the tape recorder days) it really wasn't an issue, but in this day and age where recordings can be so edited and posted online and can be so damaging, they want that paper trail. it's not just for the professor, but the privacy of all students that is at risk. Most schools prefer to give a copy of the notes, or, in some cases, access to a pre-existing recording library for that class either online or physically on campus rather than to give individual students permission to record.

 

I will also say that audio recording can easily come unwieldy. It takes me an average of 3-4 hours to go through and take notes on one hour of tape, so in college and grad school I had to be selective on which classes I really needed to record and go through that process and which I could get by without. And for some classes, especially math or science, you really need visual recording, not just auditory. It's a useful fallback to have, but it can't be the only part of the accommodations strategy.

 

All that is to say-the professor did exactly the right thing. She needs to follow up with SSD and see what they can work out.