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Grammar! Need help!


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So, my DS11 (rising 6th grader) was homeschooled from k-2. Then I needed some time to regroup after homeschooling for fourteen years. So, I sent him to PS and just removed him at the end of his 5th grade year. We have concentrated on "deschooling" because he experienced a horrible bullying situation and we had some behavior issues at home because of it. 

 

Anyway, I just pulled out the placement test for CLE for their language arts program. We use CLE math and it's been a wonderful experience for us. I was able to get him all the way through 5th grade math in just a few months and he retained absolutely everything. 

 

Well, he sat down to take the CLE LA placement test (I started at 300). I look up and he has tears pouring down his cheeks. He looked up at me and said, "Mom, I'm so stupid." Needless to stay, I have tears in my eyes now too! 

 

I told him to get up an walk away from it, gave him a huge hug, assured him that he is not stupid and that we studied Grammar up until 2nd grade (we used FLL), but that they don't teach it in PS so he has just forgotten everything. He looked at me with teared filled eyes and said, "Mom, the only thing I know is that a noun is a person, place, thing, or idea (he learned this from FLL in 2nd grade). 

 

I need a Grammar program that is going to start from the bottom and one that I can use on grade level. One that explains everything from almost the beginning but picks up quickly? I have looked at GWG and it looks like it may be the closest fit for us, but I'm really not sure. I have also looked at Analytical Grammar, but not sure I want to spend that much money on a grammar program alone. I used Easy Grammar for my DD12 this past year and the retention was not great. It was almost like she was robotically labeling sentences. I need something that is going to be retained and remembered. She just sat down to the same placement test and I had to remind her what an adjective was. :( 

 

Any ideas? 

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I can totally relate to your ds's experience.  I had practically no grammar experience in public school. I had never heard the terms preposition or dependent clause until I started homeschooling my own children. A few suggestions for you:

 

Hake is supposed to review everything every year. You can just go with whatever grade he's in.

 

Grammar Made Easy is for junior high and assumes no prior grammar experience: http://everyday-education.com/product/grammar-made-easy/

 

:grouphug:

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I can totally relate to your ds's experience.  I had practically no grammar experience in public school. I had never heard the terms preposition or dependent clause until I started homeschooling my own children. A few suggestions for you:

 

Hake is supposed to review everything every year. You can just go with whatever grade he's in.

 

Grammar Made Easy is for junior high and assumes no prior grammar experience: http://everyday-education.com/product/grammar-made-easy/

 

:grouphug:

Wow, that looked really good.  I'm not the OP but I was just coming to post a similar question about grammar help for my 7th grader.  Do you have the ebook or the printed book?  I may need to get the ebook since we will be starting soon and i'm sure it would not arrive before our start date.

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I'll put in a vote for analytical grammar. it sounds perfect for him. $100 is pricey but remember that that is for ALL of grammar (there are review books but they aren't strictly necessary). Other programs might only be $20 a grade, but that's $20 a year for many years, which adds up. 

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I recommend Hake. It starts at the beginning and is extremely thorough.

 

I would caution you against GWG. Our experience with it was very poor. It is extremely formulaic, to the point that my son didn't need to understand the concept, he just had to pick up on the pattern of the practice sentences. Once he did that, he could mark them without really knowing why he was doing what he was doing. He learned nothing from GWG.

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I recommend Hake. It starts at the beginning and is extremely thorough.

 

I would caution you against GWG. Our experience with it was very poor. It is extremely formulaic, to the point that my son didn't need to understand the concept, he just had to pick up on the pattern of the practice sentences. Once he did that, he could mark them without really knowing why he was doing what he was doing. He learned nothing from GWG.

 

Tara, do you think it would be ok to start my 7th grader in Hake 5?  The only reason i'm asking is because we already own it and I would cover the numer on the book so that he couldn't see it, I really don't want to buy something else if I can help it, then we could move on to the 8th grade book next year.

 

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I'll put in a vote for analytical grammar. it sounds perfect for him. $100 is pricey but remember that that is for ALL of grammar (there are review books but they aren't strictly necessary). Other programs might only be $20 a grade, but that's $20 a year for many years, which adds up. 

 

 

 

I did not realize this. So I just purchase the program one time and can use it for many years? What exactly do I need to purchase as I'm not familiar with the program since I haven't ever used it in my 14 years of homeschooling.

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I recommend Hake. It starts at the beginning and is extremely thorough.

 

I would caution you against GWG. Our experience with it was very poor. It is extremely formulaic, to the point that my son didn't need to understand the concept, he just had to pick up on the pattern of the practice sentences. Once he did that, he could mark them without really knowing why he was doing what he was doing. He learned nothing from GWG.

 

This is exactly what happened with my daughter this past year using Easy Grammar. We have used GWG in the past, but for the lower grades. This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

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I recommend Junior Analytical Grammar. Last year was my first experience with both AG and JAG. My DD used AG in 8th and will continue/finish it this year in 9th. My son used JAG for 6th grade. It was on grade level, but much more gentle and clear, step-by-step. AG moves at a faster pace. He will now start the three year sequence of AG for grades 7,8,9. In my opinion, JAG would be better for your son's confidence.

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I did not realize this. So I just purchase the program one time and can use it for many years? What exactly do I need to purchase as I'm not familiar with the program since I haven't ever used it in my 14 years of homeschooling.

 

I don't own the program yet but have researched it a lot.

 

The one book covers grammar 'cycles' for three years, the idea being at the end of the three years they have 'completed' grammar and only need occasional review. 

 

Heres some info about it - https://www.analyticalgrammar.com/ag-explained - This link also includes information for Junior Analytical Grammar at the top, which others here have mentioned and is basically a simplified version of the first cycle iirc, spread over two years.

 

For AG you just need 

The student and teacher books - https://www.analyticalgrammar.com/analytical-products/analytical-grammar-book.html

The review and reinforcement - https://www.analyticalgrammar.com/analytical-products/review-and-reinforcements.html

 

Those three books are grammar for THREE years at your sons age, with the idea that they will need no more formal grammar after that. Then you can choose to buy review books at $20 each (one per year)  after he completes the course. 

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We used AG in 6th-7th-8th grade.  This was before JAG existed and before videos existed for the program.  Here's my review:

 

Analytical Grammar website is www.analyticalgrammar.com.  The videos at the website do a great job of explaining the program.  AG breaks it up into 3 seasons/years.  Season 1 has 10 weeks f daily grammar work, then review 1x every 2 weeks.  Season 2 has 7 weeks of daily grammar work, then review 1x every month.  Season 3 has 17 weeks of daily grammar work and then you are done.  It can be completed in 1 or 2 years as well.  We completed the program as they suggest in 6 th-7th-8th grade with review between the seasons.

 

Season 1 - basic grammar (parts of speech, parts of a sentence, basics of diagramming)

Season 2 - advanced grammar (verbal phrases and subordinate clauses) (this completes the study of grammar)

Season 3 - application of grammatical knowledge to the rules of capitalization, punctuation and usage

 

Pros:

  • Clear and concise
  • Pick up and go (little to no preparation required from mom)
  • Teach lesson on first day of week and student can work on their own for rest of week.  Only checking/correcting required from mom.
  • Each lesson in Season 1 has a theme (American flag, humorous Johnny Carson story, women & math, Mexican-Americans, Martin Luther King Jr., Jewish Americans, fairy tales, etc.) which makes the lessons more interesting.
  • Built-in review – new concepts are learned, but old concepts (ex. adverbs, conjunctions, gerund phrases) are never dropped.
  • Sentences are much more complex than Shurley grammar.
  • The review paragraphs are from real books (in other words, the sentences are not made up especially for grammar parsing).
  • Novelty of getting a letter grade on test
  • Comfort of letter grade for perfectionist mom (ds is missing some but still getting As/Bs)
  • Student book turns into a reference manual when you remove student exercises.
  • Erin Karl (author’s daughter) is very responsive to questions on AG yahoo group.

 

Cons:

  • While I thought Season 1 was perfect, we could have used 2x as much practice/review for Season 2 (because it’s difficult) and 3 (because it’s detailed).
  • Some say it’s expensive.  I spent $120 but will use it over 3 years.  It has been worth every penny in the TIME that it has saved me.

 

Disclaimer:  I have a master’s degree in Operations Research, which is concerned with all things efficiency.  Part of the reason I love AG is that it is the most efficient use of my time and my child’s time.  This leaves time for other wonderful things like math, history, music, and sports!  I imagine that if you are a good teacher, and you teach grammar year after year after year, you learn to make your lessons more and more efficient.  That must be with the author, Robin Finley, did.

 

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So, my DS11 (rising 6th grader) was homeschooled from k-2. Then I needed some time to regroup after homeschooling for fourteen years. So, I sent him to PS and just removed him at the end of his 5th grade year. We have concentrated on "deschooling" because he experienced a horrible bullying situation and we had some behavior issues at home because of it. 

 

Anyway, I just pulled out the placement test for CLE for their language arts program. We use CLE math and it's been a wonderful experience for us. I was able to get him all the way through 5th grade math in just a few months and he retained absolutely everything. 

 

Well, he sat down to take the CLE LA placement test (I started at 300). I look up and he has tears pouring down his cheeks. He looked up at me and said, "Mom, I'm so stupid." Needless to stay, I have tears in my eyes now too! 

 

I told him to get up an walk away from it, gave him a huge hug, assured him that he is not stupid and that we studied Grammar up until 2nd grade (we used FLL), but that they don't teach it in PS so he has just forgotten everything. He looked at me with teared filled eyes and said, "Mom, the only thing I know is that a noun is a person, place, thing, or idea (he learned this from FLL in 2nd grade). 

 

I need a Grammar program that is going to start from the bottom and one that I can use on grade level. One that explains everything from almost the beginning but picks up quickly? I have looked at GWG and it looks like it may be the closest fit for us, but I'm really not sure. I have also looked at Analytical Grammar, but not sure I want to spend that much money on a grammar program alone. I used Easy Grammar for my DD12 this past year and the retention was not great. It was almost like she was robotically labeling sentences. I need something that is going to be retained and remembered. She just sat down to the same placement test and I had to remind her what an adjective was. :(

 

Any ideas? 

 

Easy Grammar. GWG is way too simple, IMHO. Easy Grammar does what you're looking for.

 

I think you might be putting too much emphasis on "retention." No matter what you use, it will probably take more than one year to see true "retention." Also, were *you* correcting her lessons? Every single one? And did she finish the EG book she was doing?

 

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