Help me get a homeschooled senior into college

[Tsuga]

I believe he has to have custody/residence for in state but they might require his name on the FAFSA.

 

I do not think it sounds at all that the student is at fault in this case. I could just about crawl through the intertubes and fake strangle her mom at this point though. Grrrr. You must be so frustrated.

 

I would seriously look at all state options for four years if she finds cc too depressing, but feel free to talk it up as a viable option that is not mutually exclusive of the Ivy League.

[Kim in SouthGa]

The colleges that we have interacted with have all said that they do not count dual enrollment credits against freshman status (and we have talked to many!!).  Another option may be a virtual school that has classes in the AB term.  My dd will be getting two credits of a foreign language this year by taking Chinese 1 in the Fall AB term and Chinese 2 in the Spring AB term through GA virtual school.

I've noticed that you said she was weak on math and ok with EC and PE classes, but what about the other requirements?  English, History, Science?  I would really not be worrying so much about how to take her interest and turn them into elective credits and be more concerned with if she has the classes that most colleges require, which are generally 4 math, 4 English, 3 science, 3 social science, and 2 foreign language.  If she doesn't have that, then start there. 

 

I know a child in the same situation.  Single mom, uninvolved dad,  only child left to his own devices.  It breaks my heart.  He wanted to do dual enrollment with my dd this year, but his mom hasn't had him do any tests or made a transcript or anything (he is a senior, or supposed to be).  I try to help and tell him to have her call me.  We take him with us to karate every week, and he is always saying how he hasn't done any school, just got up at noon, etc.  I don't see how to help except offer advice.  If the parent and the child are both unmotivated and unrealistic about goals and deadlines and requirements...what can you do?  Getting a full scholarship to a college, ANY college is HARD.  I've spent hours documenting and keeping records, my dd has done SAT twice and ACT once, has tons of leadership activities and great grades, college courses, etc, and I'm still not banking on her getting a full scholarship.  The competition is tough. 

 

If she really, truly WANTS it, then she will be willing to do whatever it takes.  If that means holding off a year to graduate, so be it.  She can do dual enrollment and no one will be the wiser. 

 

Hats off to you for taking this on!  What a blessing you are for her!

[SarahW]

The colleges that we have interacted with have all said that they do not count dual enrollment credits against freshman status (and we have talked to many!!).  Another option may be a virtual school that has classes in the AB term.  My dd will be getting two credits of a foreign language this year by taking Chinese 1 in the Fall AB term and Chinese 2 in the Spring AB term through GA virtual school.

I've noticed that you said she was weak on math and ok with EC and PE classes, but what about the other requirements?  English, History, Science?  I would really not be worrying so much about how to take her interest and turn them into elective credits and be more concerned with if she has the classes that most colleges require, which are generally 4 math, 4 English, 3 science, 3 social science, and 2 foreign language.  If she doesn't have that, then start there. 

 

I know a child in the same situation.  Single mom, uninvolved dad,  only child left to his own devices.  It breaks my heart.  He wanted to do dual enrollment with my dd this year, but his mom hasn't had him do any tests or made a transcript or anything (he is a senior, or supposed to be).  I try to help and tell him to have her call me.  We take him with us to karate every week, and he is always saying how he hasn't done any school, just got up at noon, etc.  I don't see how to help except offer advice.  If the parent and the child are both unmotivated and unrealistic about goals and deadlines and requirements...what can you do?  Getting a full scholarship to a college, ANY college is HARD.  I've spent hours documenting and keeping records, my dd has done SAT twice and ACT once, has tons of leadership activities and great grades, college courses, etc, and I'm still not banking on her getting a full scholarship.  The competition is tough. 

 

If she really, truly WANTS it, then she will be willing to do whatever it takes.  If that means holding off a year to graduate, so be it.  She can do dual enrollment and no one will be the wiser. 

 

Hats off to you for taking this on!  What a blessing you are for her!

 

 

Ugh, that must be so frustrating!

 

I mention EC's because they're very important for her desired career, that's all. The internship program she's away at the moment is actually, I've come to realize, nationally competitive. It also checks the service/leadership boxes that colleges like to see. So at least she has that going for her. At least she has a personal goal and has been actively working on it. If she didn't have that, the situation would be very bleak, yes.

 

I'm not sure about the overall academics yet, just that I hear she's weak in math and strong in writing. I'm meeting the mom tomorrow to see what paperwork she has, and I'll start drafting a transcript and course descriptions.

 

I've been crunching info at collegedata - searching for possible majors and sorting by high percentage of need met and not super competitive. I've found some intriguing options that might be a good match for her. My long list of possibilities need more investigation, of course, but there's some good department scholarships and opportunities in there. It may be worth it to look, look, look, and look more for the perfect fit.

[Michelle_NC]

I don't have time to read through all the responses right now, but if no one has mentioned it there is a great Homeschooling for College Credit group on Facebook:

 

https://www.facebook.com/HomeschoolingforCollegeCredit?fref=nf

 

The moderator wrote a book on the subject and is a great source of information.

[justasque]

No. She probably doesn't really want to live in Philly, but she has a family member in the Poconos she can visit on weekends and do laundry. She's been there before and likes it, so hopefully that could ease the location issue. And the training program includes lots of time off-campus, so once she's fully into that she won't be in Philly much anyways.

 

<gently> Temple is very, very, very different than the Poconos.  It's in a very poor part of a big city.  If she's going to be off-campus, I would make sure to understand *where* that may be - in the city also?

 

I like the Poconos.  I like the city.  I like Temple, and I feel very comfortable there.  But it is absolutely NOT the right location for everyone.  Specifically, anyone who is not comfortable in sketchy urban neighborhoods will not feel comfortable at Temple.  She really needs to visit if at all possible.

 

And, I find that there are all kinds of things that admissions folks tell teens that the teens are more likely to take in coming from admin folks than from parents or random adults, so visiting can be a great way for a teen to get a very realistic idea of their chances at getting into a school, and what they may need to do to increase those chances.

[Love_to_Read]

I don't think they'd count the father's sate of residency unless they were to transfer custody legally...and even then, there might still be a time requirement.  Worth digging up the info from that specific state to be sure, but it seems unlikely without moving there to do her senior year with him.

[SarahW]

<gently> Temple is very, very, very different than the Poconos.  It's in a very poor part of a big city.  If she's going to be off-campus, I would make sure to understand *where* that may be - in the city also?

 

I like the Poconos.  I like the city.  I like Temple, and I feel very comfortable there.  But it is absolutely NOT the right location for everyone.  Specifically, anyone who is not comfortable in sketchy urban neighborhoods will not feel comfortable at Temple.  She really needs to visit if at all possible.

 

And, I find that there are all kinds of things that admissions folks tell teens that the teens are more likely to take in coming from admin folks than from parents or random adults, so visiting can be a great way for a teen to get a very realistic idea of their chances at getting into a school, and what they may need to do to increase those chances.

 

 

I'm aware that Philly and the Poconos are different. One is a large urban city. One is rural and mountainous and only a few hours north. I've been to both. 

 

I don't mean to be blunt, I just don't understand why you are about the third person to harp on this???

 

She would not be stuck in Philly for months on end. That's my point.

 

Currently, the best program in the country for her career is at Temple. It's a super weird location for this particular program, and most of the other students in the program probably don't like Philly either. They'll likely all leave to hike the Appalachian Trail together whenever they can. It just is what it is. shrug.

[Teachin'Mine]

Sarah I can only imagine what would have happened if someone had asked my help with college searching back when my daughter was in the elementary years.  I would have been at a total loss for where to even begin. It has taken years of looking up info to find out how much I still have no clue about.  I think it's great that you've been willing to do this for them as they obviously need help.

 

I was quite a while into the process of searching for my dd when I finally figured out what everyone meant by "directional" universities.  The state flagship, the top-rated and hardest to get into one, is usually State Name U or U of State Name.  The directional universities are usually named Southern StateName University or University of East StateName.  These directional universities are often much easier to get into.  If you check, you may find that the school she's wanting to attend is one of these directional universities.  It isn't ranked by US News, but it may be a great school for her goal.  They have on their website high school requirements.  They say that homeschoolers must submit a transcript, but they don't mention course descriptions.  You can look further online or give them a call to find out what's required.  

 

I think she can work towards finishing up high school with the goal of getting direct admission into her dream school, as long as the finances are workable for her family.  I know you don't want to say too much here, but there's such a wealth of information within The Hive that if you mention where she wants to go, you might be able to get some first hand admissions info from someone in that state.  I would also suggest that when she returns that she email admissions and ask some questions of her own about the program and the job placement stats. She may want to contact some instructors involved with the certification program to get more specific information. She may also want to contact some of the places which are involved in hiring for those jobs and ask their opinion of the certification program and the school in general.  Ask them if they like to hire those students of if they have other suggestions.  You want to make sure that the info you have is accurate and not hype.  Despite the better academics at Temple, I think this one would likely be a much better fit for her interests.

 

College searching and applying as a homeschooler usually isn't easy.  Ask lots of questions as I'm sure there are others who have had students with similar interests and I'm sure they'd be happy to help.

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm aware that Philly and the Poconos are different. One is a large urban city. One is rural and mountainous and only a few hours north. I've been to both. 

 

I don't mean to be blunt, I just don't understand why you are about the third person to harp on this???

 

She would not be stuck in Philly for months on end. That's my point.

 

Currently, the best program in the country for her career is at Temple. It's a super weird location for this particular program, and most of the other students in the program probably don't like Philly either. They'll likely all leave to hike the Appalachian Trail together whenever they can. It just is what it is. shrug.

 

The reason everyone is harping on the same things is because we're all parents of children who are entirely grown up or at least mid-launch out of the nest. You're hearing experience and perspective in all these questions. Nobody's meaning to just build walls or throw buckets of cold water, but we are being realistic.

 

I've been away from my desk for a day or two so I'm not entirely caught up on this conversation, but a few things in this post alone have caught my eye:

 

1. How is she not stuck in Philly for months on end?

2. How does she join the other students on their weekend hikes on the Appalachian trail?

3. Will she have a car? Where does the money for the car come from?

4. Will she have some money in her pocket for weekend jaunts?

5. How? Living expenses included in full ride tuition packages and scholarships because of her high school test scores and achievements?

6. Or from working, either on or off campus, while she's in school?

7. If it's the latter, kids who are working their way through are not also doing luxury vacations.

8. If it's not the former, because she has serious gaps in her education, is she realistically splitting her time between the Poconos and her university campus, or is she studying every moment she's not working?

 

We're hearing a lot of "winging it" in this student's plans, and in some of your visions for what's possible for her first foray away from home. Except for students without money and support from home, it's often rather grim. OK, very grim. If there is also a tremendous fight to learn to study at the college level and keep pace with the group, on top of lack of $upport from home....there's a reason why the majority of college freshmen never graduate.

 

I could be wrong, but I think this is what you're hearing from so many people. If this girl is pushed out of the nest at very high altitude, will her parachute be sufficient, or will she feel overwhelmed and trapped?

[justasque]

I'm aware that Philly and the Poconos are different. One is a large urban city. One is rural and mountainous and only a few hours north. I've been to both. 

 

I don't mean to be blunt, I just don't understand why you are about the third person to harp on this???

 

She would not be stuck in Philly for months on end. That's my point.

 

Currently, the best program in the country for her career is at Temple. It's a super weird location for this particular program, and most of the other students in the program probably don't like Philly either. They'll likely all leave to hike the Appalachian Trail together whenever they can. It just is what it is. shrug.

 

Well, I assume the goal is not just to get her into college, but to have her be in a "good fit" setting where she can actually go the distance and finish the program.  The kids I have known over the years who've gone to Temple have either thrived on all the city has to offer (often living off-campus in the very-different-from-Temple-area University City), or have hated it and transferred somewhere else after a semester or two.  So when you mentioned that she is not a city person, and hasn't visited Temple, (and I didn't know if you had or not), that set off red flags for me that she might end up in the latter group, so I mentioned it.  

 

Being able to drive the three hours to the Poconos (assuming she gets a license and a car and can afford the gas) will be a great option.  However, given that taking formal, college-level classes will be new to her, with presumably a steep learning curve, I'd be worried that she may not be able to take the time for a weekend road trip very often.  Of course, if she's passionate about her goals, she may be able to go the distance regardless of where she goes to school.  

 

You know this girl and her family best!  We're all just helping you to brainstorm, and sometimes our suggestions will fall far from the mark. Take the input that is helpful to you, and leave the rest.

 

You're doing a very, very good thing, that has the potential to have a massive impact on this girl's life.  

[Pen]

Some places have public school options for kids in unusual circumstances.  Might there be a possibility that she would have such an option where she could get a regular high school degree and perhaps some free DE in a community college via enrolling in a public high school for senior year?

 

ETA I tried to PM you to ask if she is trying to get into the program I think, or some other, and what the other school she'd like is.

 

Without specifics, I think as an acting guidance counselor, part of what you would want to do would be to ask why she wants to go into the field she wants to go into, and to generate other options that she also might like if that does not end up being possible--or other roads that might be related and also suitable.  Then with a few options (having only one option is rather hard!), I would think you would do the usual that people do, which is get information on entrance requirements, and go about having her figure out how she can fulfill them in her final year of high school--whether that is as a homeschooler, or at a public school, or at a CC, or some combo.

 

Also, for any program she is considering, not only are there issues about what she needs to be able to do to get in, but also she needs to know what the performance of the school is in helping the students get what it is they seek.  Again, with lack of specific info, this is hard to address, but maybe this link http://www.justanswer.com/law/7kuky-investigated-temple-university-pro-ranger-philly.html would give an idea of what I mean.  Just because a program sounds wonderful, does not mean that it will be wonderful for everyone hoping to participate in it, even if the child gets into the school that has it. I of course do not know if the program mentioned in the link has anything to do with the sort of thing this girl wants to do, but it still gives an idea of things that need to be looked at beyond one's SAT or ACT.

 

 

[Love_to_Read]

Just an offhand comment from experience as a needy college student...poor kids don't go home 3hrs on the weekend to do laundry.  It's a drive you make only on long breaks where the university shuts down...iow, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring Break, Summer.  Not saying that to change plans, just adjusting expectations. Plus the whole awkwardness of visiting extended family too often in a way that's imposing.  They'll probably welcome her once a year or once a semester when she can't afford to go all the way home, but mostly it will be a matter of learning to do laundry on campus.  No biggie, just 3hrs is a considered a long way in PA with all the hills and such...no matter how nice her family is, they won't go pick her up on weekends, because that's 12hrs driving for them round trip for them to fetch her and back, or 6hrs if she finds another student to take her.

[Love_to_Read]

I agree with your assessment that the SAT is probably a better tool than the ACT for admissions purposes. A practice ACT might give better info for helping figure out what she actually knows, and if she scores well on it, by all means consider submitting scores as proof that she didn't goof off entirely for high school...but the SAT's emphasis on aptitude instead of achievement is more strategic to submit for a student who might be bright (lots of aptitude) with less actual education (achievement).

 

I like the plan someone suggested earlier about looking further into how the dream school treats transfer students if she were to do CC for an Associates and then attend the dream school for the rest of a 4yr degree, then apply for the Certificate? (Presuming they don't accept her straight into the certificate program after the CC, but certainly apply if they take applicants after 60hrs as someone mentioned about Temple doing.)  That way, she'd have the determination of having applied twice, plus the 4yr degree in something related from the dream school, so I'd think that would be enough edge to get her in. In the meanwhile, she'd have a low-cost Associate's degree, if it can be obtained for cheaper than going to either of the 4yrs, or if neither accepts her. 

 

The thing about an Associate's degree is that it's still a degree.  If life interferes with completing the entire four years in a timely manner....say finances, pregnancy, illness, program changes, anything...people who have an Associates still have a degree, while people in a straight-forward 4yr program have a diploma plus "some college classes."  In some ways, I do feel like it can be a disadvantage to have all of one's general ed requirements completed during the first two years, because that really elevates the difficulty level of the next couple years, having to finish all the real major requirements at once with nothing easy to intersperse.  But, if she's pretty focused anyhow, maybe it won't be so bad for her to do the CC route to get into the dream school.

 

I think I'd call to inquire a little further about the in-state policies, too, unless the answer is spelled out...specifically, I know that generally residency cannot be established by a student moving to town for less than a year, nor can it be established while attending....BUT, if her mother moves there after retiring like she's talking about, so that it's a family move rather than a student move, I wonder whether there's any exception.  Or the idea of going to CC there...that probably won't establish residency, but maybe it's worth asking.

 

[Pen]

I tried to reply to you, SarahW, as a PM, but am having trouble with that part of this working so I am replying here, trying to be vague about details you do not want revealed.

 

 

 

The uni in the West she is interested in sounds like a much better fit.  I wonder if there'd be any way that she could do something like become a light duty au pair to someone in the western state where that school is for a year or couple of years while finishing up high school credits, getting math solid etc.  Thus perhaps establishing her own in state residency in that state (driver's license there, filing taxes there etc., you'd have to check and see what the residency requirements are) while also getting her background more solid so as to do really well in whatever major she chooses--maybe even if she took junior year high school status, being able to get a high score on PSAT for extra scholarship help that way.  And time to take math and science classes that she may be missing.  She may also need to take SAT2 subject tests that she cannot right now do.  I know most of the places my ds would be applying to require at least 2 SAT2 tests, more often 3 or even 4 for home schoolers.

 

 

I know someone who did something like that--though I think the reasons for doing it were very different and the goal was not so much to be able to go to a particular school in a particular place as that a job meant going to a particular place which then led to going to school there.  It was via a church connection so that the situation was that the daughter of someone local to me went and lived in another state with someone from their same connected denomination. Then when the girl went to college in that other state, the family she'd lived with as an au pair also became a quasi-family place to go for Thanksgiving and other times that going all the way home to parents was too hard/far/expensive.  In fact, I think she really was pretty established in the other state and with the other family so that after that point I think I only ever saw her for brief times for special occasions.  Ironically, the parents of this family moved and now live in the western state that has the other school that the girl you are trying to help wants to go to.  They would not need an au pair, but might have some sort of connections there--though they'd probably be church related which would likely only work for the girl you are trying to help if she were interested in that denomination.

 

 

 I (and I guess you also at this point) do not really know how strong/weak her actual background is.  Like, are her problems in math that she has not yet had pre-calculus or that she has not yet mastered fractions.  If her background is weak she may have trouble doing well in either the western school or at Temple even if she can get in and manage the finances one way or another.  It would probably be better to graduate at 23, but graduate, then to aim for reaching her goals at 21, but not be able to do it due to weak background.

 

 

I would worry that if Temple is generally a bad fit for her, not somewhere she would otherwise ever consider except for one particular program of interest, that the overall situation there would be very iffy for her.  And if she did not get into that program, or it did not work out for her for whatever reason, even ended being a program there before she could finish, also very upsetting. So if she is aiming for Temple, I'd want to take a hard look at not only what it would take for her to get in and be able to go there, but what it would take for her to be able to get into her specific desired program and successfully graduate and go into her desired work.

 

[Pen]

Just an offhand comment from experience as a needy college student...poor kids don't go home 3hrs on the weekend to do laundry.  It's a drive you make only on long breaks where the university shuts down...iow, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring Break, Summer.  Not saying that to change plans, just adjusting expectations. Plus the whole awkwardness of visiting extended family too often in a way that's imposing.  They'll probably welcome her once a year or once a semester when she can't afford to go all the way home, but mostly it will be a matter of learning to do laundry on campus.  No biggie, just 3hrs is a considered a long way in PA with all the hills and such...no matter how nice her family is, they won't go pick her up on weekends, because that's 12hrs driving for them round trip for them to fetch her and back, or 6hrs if she finds another student to take her.

 

 

I don't think very many kids frequently go home or elsewhere 3 hours distance to do laundry or get out of the city no matter what their finances, except under very unusual circumstances.  

[Pen]

...

 

I would worry that if Temple is generally a bad fit for her, not somewhere she would otherwise ever consider except for one particular program of interest, that the overall situation there would be very iffy for her.  And if she did not get into that program, or it did not work out for her for whatever reason, even ended being a program there before she could finish, also very upsetting. So if she is aiming for Temple, I'd want to take a hard look at not only what it would take for her to get in and be able to go there, but what it would take for her to be able to get into her specific desired program and successfully graduate and go into her desired work.

 

 

  commenting on my own post

 

I do not actually know that Temple would be a bad fit...   only going by what you said that she does not like the city  as well as that she may not have the high school background to do well enough there to be accepted into the program she wants and so on.  If Temple were actually a good fit for her and she could do well there then it could be an excellent choice if she can get in and can afford to go.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm not sure how much time you've spent on the high school board in the past.  You might want to take a look at some of the threads linked to in the big stickied thread at the top of the high school board.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/475909-transcripts-credits-gpa-accreditation-ncaa-college-applications-scholarshipsfinancial-aid-career-explore-past-threads-linked-here/

 

There are links to some pretty detailed discussions about finishing high school work, writing transcripts, applying to college, etc.  In many instances there are trade offs.  A student with a weak high school record might benefit from the opportunity to build skills and habits at a community college.  Some students have appreciated the fact that AP courses or Dual Enrollment make them more competitive applicants to college, even if the credits aren't accepted by the 4 year university.  Transfer students might not get as much aid but might not need to spend as much time at the higher cost uni (then again, they might).

 

[73349]

[personal details removed]

 

It is so nice that she has you to help with this! I'd plan for this coming year to be a Senior Year of Doing All the Things, including rocking the October ACT *and* November SAT (maybe also the ASVAB) and seeing who is interested. Concentrate on writing, foreign language and math, and a lab science that will be useful (perhaps physics if she hasn't done it).

By January, you should have  a realistic picture of where she has a chance to get in.

 

[SarahW]

Just getting caught up with this now...I'm actually in the middle of vacation travel atm.

 

For more background, I was able to find out that the student did some DL courses, but apparently they weren't very good. The programs she went through are not anything I see recommended around here, and their websites are...a bit sketchy. The mother, since she was working full-time (or more) encouraged the DL approach, but the student seems to have particularly loathed the DL format. She's a much more hand-on experience learner.

 

They were going to start DE this past year, and the student particularly was interested in taking live classes for a change, but an official at the CC gave the mother totally wrong and false information, which made them think it was impossible (have to go through the school system and blah blah) so that's why there was the push to graduate the student and start CC as a freshman this fall. Since she hadn't taken any tests, she took the CC placement test and tested into Honors College Comp, but didn't place into College Algebra, which she said was because she forgot how to work some of the fractions questions (I should note here that I took the same placement test back in the day, and it wasn't very good, it's just one of the reasons I think it's not a very good CC, so I think it's very possible that a simple review of procedural math would fix her math problems).

 

I worked with the mother to sort out things with the CC, and we switched the student to DE for this year. I am not sure if the student can do DE next year as well, there may be an age limit. I'm trying to nail down with the CC what they will allow.

 

Of course, being homeschooled, she doesn't need DE. She could just stay home and maybe study for some AP tests or do some actual DL. But I think asking her to wait to graduate yet another year would mean promising her college classes. She's at the stage where she just wants to get moving with her life.

 

Also, adding on another year would put her hs graduation 3 1/2 months shy of her 20th birthday. I know that's not wrong per se, and I see the real advantages of turning this year into her junior year, but I do wonder if the college admissions will look unfavorably at that. I mean, yes, they want students who are prepared, but I'm not sure how they would look at a homeschooled student who was "held back" without any LD.

 

Making this her junior year may make some of the DL fall out of her "9th" grade. But I'm leaning towards ignoring the DL-part and putting them down as self-directed (since they mostly were anyways). Though one of her DL years was through an online joint that says they are registered as a CA cover school, not sure how "official" that is for grade or transcript purposes, she doesn't live in CA.

 

I have a list of over two dozen possible schools of many different types. Women's colleges, outdoor schools, work-study schools, Great Books schools, Christian schools, state schools, LACs, everything. When I see the student in a few days I'll go through the various options and the requirements for the different types of schools. And I'll ask if she wants to go out to Temple for a visit and chat with the department and fin aid. Maybe she'll decide that she wants the roundabout path with a different school on the list. I think I'll give her the full list of schools and have her spend some time looking at the websites and getting a feel for the type of college she's looking for beyond "they have my super-specific degree program right next to my dream job," which seems to have been the entirety of her interest in the "dream" school out west.

 

I am going through past threads here in the high school forum as I have time (grades for PE class? Bible as elective?). I can see the value of having done the research and a projected high school plan before 9th grade. Scrambling this together after the fact is a nightmare!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

What is DL?  

 

There are any number of reasons that a student might graduate at 19 including sickness, moving, struggling in school at an early grade, taking a gap year or just missing the school cut off age in one state before moving to another state.  I don't think that being 19 when entering college is really that big of a thing for most schools (any more than being 17 is a significant positive or negative).

 

Personally I think that it behooves a student with little financial reserves to be as well qualified as a student as possible when starting at a 4 year college.  Not only does that put her into a better position to compete for merit aid as well as need based aid, but it also gives her more academic skills and maturity to handle a full college load.  And it is better to make mistakes in things like keeping up with homework and scheduling classes while one has the safety net of living at home rather than when mistakes are more costly because you are also paying for room and board and transportation, and where the credits may be a lot more expensive.

 

Upthread you mentioned that she hoped to qualify for merit aid.  Merit aid is competitive at many schools and is based on test scores, gpa and other factors like essays or interviews.  If this is something she is working towards, she will want to make sure that she is in the upper % of students at the schools she applies to.  (If she doesn't have test scores and has sketchy academic records, merit aid is something that is tenuous to depend on.  Once she has test scores she'll have a clearer picture of how likely merit aid is.  The more markers a student can provide to justify merit aid, the more likely a school is to grant it.  IE. dual enrollment grades might help here.)

 

Advanced Placement exams are only given once a year in May.  So AP exams taken in May 2016 would be available to use in college applications in summer/fall 2016.  The content of the exams are pretty specific.  If a student has had a solid/rigorous grounding in a subject they may be able to use a study guide for a month or two before the exam to fill in any holes.  But this depends greatly on the course.  I wouldn't assume that a student could self study for a physics exam or even an history or English exam unless they had already put in a good deal of work in that subject.  To register for an AP exam, the student (or family/counselor) would need to coordinate with a school that is offering that exam.  Usually registration happens in Feb-Mar.  The fee for an exam is about $91.  There may be an additional proctoring fee for outside students.  We paid $125 per exam in one location.  There are fee waivers available via College Board for low income students, but this would require some additional preparation to coordinate and would not necessarily cover the proctoring fee from the hosting school.

 

I've had a little trouble following what sort of degree & certification program is being looked at.  (You might want to start a separate thread that asks just about that program or career path without student details.  You might get some good feedback about selectivity and how to to be competitive, as well as suggested alternatives.)  One thing that concerns me is the mention that the program has a lot of military vets going through it.  If a substantial number of people in the program have a college degree and several years of military experience (including leadership/management experience, combat field experience, specialized military training and general maturity) will that pose a situation where this friend has a certification, but is frequently passed over in job applications because other applicants have substantially more life/job experience?  

 

If her intended career has a lot of post-military people in it, would joining the military be a good option for her?  It's not a good option for everyone.  But it might be something for her to explore.  

[SarahW]

DL = Distance Learning.

 

I don't think she's interested in military. Grads from Temple or dream school have good job placement, so until the money matters came clear, I think she thought that going to dream school was the best bet. Going to a different school just involves finding a department willing to go the distance to place grads, and putting in the independent work during breaks to keep up with what the Temple program does. It's not vets+bachelor's so much getting the jobs, but vets vs. bachelor's. And bachelor's seems to be a surer bet these days. 

 

I've found good info on the internet about this career path. Other than the training programs and special college programs, it's just a matter of finding a school with a good combination of majors and departments with desired student activities and special programs. And has good need aid. Once I know what kind of school she's looking for (and where she actually stands with math) I'll probably be looking for more info about a narrowed-down list of schools.

[katilac]

The college will not care if she is 19 when she graduates (just like they don't care if you graduate early, you don't get bonus points for that). 

 

If she can do 2 years of DE, that would probably be ideal - if they let her do 9 to 11 hours per semester, which is what they allow her, she is not very far off from full-time college at all. 

 

My second choice would be 1 year of DE and graduation, aiming for a solid list of colleges with both academic and financial safeties. 

 

A year of DE followed by a senior year of homeschooling would be my last choice, I think. Much too easy to get derailed and discouraged; if she hasn't had a great home experience before now, I'd see no reason to think she suddenly will in the future. And she shouldn't count on finding a school willing to proctor her AP exams, she'd definitely need to check on that before making plans. It's no big problem in some areas, but we had ZERO luck finding a school willing to let dd take APs or PSATS. 

[Love_to_Read]

State laws may play a factor in testing...I think our local schools are required to let us take such exams upon request.

[SarahW]

Okay, I talked to the student for a few hours today. 

 

She's still pretty set on dream school. I've found out that there's a few scholarships for her department and outside scholarships for her major. If she can stack a lot, it may be financially possible, but I let her know it was a long shot. She brought up ROTC. I suppose there is only one Grand Canyon in the world, but I'm not sure it's worth four years of ones life. They do have the joint program with the National Guard, but weekends and summers are high employment seasons for her career, so I'm not sure if that's a good mesh.

 

In any case, I'm keeping her dream school on the table to keep her happy, and having her seriously look at my huge list of other schools and finding a mix of schools she likes that have good need aid. She's also looking into Temple. She'll likely need to get fee waivers and apply to a number of schools and examine the actual aid packages.

 

I found on the dream school website a pretty thorough page going through their college-prep requirements. They expect a pretty solid curriculum, so I used that when I discussed the transcript with the student. She saw pretty quick that she needs more credits, and was happy with the plan of doing DE next year to fill up the transcript and also not lose time for college graduation. Since she has not had any grade level for her DL, and she hadn't taken the PSAT or any other standardized test, I just filled out her DE form as her being a junior. I'll just wait and see if the DE director complains.

 

There is some good previous schoolwork to put on the transcript. But it is mostly lopsided bits and pieces. She needs to fill holes and bring up a few subjects. Since the mother is paying for DE this year, I signed her up for Honors Freshman Composition 1 and Spanish 1, with plans for her to take the second semester of those in the spring.

 

We also made a plan for her to take Human Geography and Environmental Science this year and take the AP exams. These are subjects of interest to her (and relate to desired career) so she was positive about studying them, especially when I pointed out some online options with interactive components. Exam prep and the promise that a high score will give her elective credit at dream school are additional strong motivations.

 

For math I suggested she start Khan Academy with Pre-A to review and plan to get through Algebra 2. She liked the idea of adaptive practice and non-textbook math.

 

There's an elective through Georgia Virtual School, Law, Public Safety, Corrections, and Security, that she's very interested in doing as well (and won't be difficult, as she has a background in it, but the class would show it).

 

And I am tying to figure out Fine Arts. She needs at least one credit, and has been doing interest-led studies in drawing, piano, and digital photography, but I'm not sure how much time she has actually put into them (she's under assignment to write me some course descriptions, which will hopefully help me figure out the credits). But I am wondering if an art appreciation course is also good to add in. She's spent time at the local (highly regarded) art museum and went to a special art presentation there, so I was thinking to assign some time (now or Christmas break) going through art history videos on Khan Academy or something else, and making it into a credit of Art History and Appreciation. Or, History of Visual Art. Or something like that.

 

Another reason I'm thinking of an art history credit is because I'm not sure she has a full world history credit. Dream school lists the option of hitting a certain SAT2 score in World History in lieu of a class credit, and she's willing to get a test prep book and try that option. But a full art history course may indicate that she's not completely ignorant of the people who have lived on this planet.

 

I'm suggesting that she take the PSAT this fall. That'll solidify her Junior status if nothing else. If she applies herself in math between now and then, maybe she'll do well. Is there a test prep workbook especially for the new PSAT? Like I said, she doesn't have a history with standardized tests. I'm not sure she's even taken an Iowa. So....

 

They don't like their local school district much, but there is a local Christian high school they have contacts with which may be helpful for taking the tests.

[Love_to_Read]

I know there was a recent thread about PSAT.  I'd look first on their website to see whether they've released any official new practice.  I think they were supposed to release something before the actual test.  Definitely contact high schools asap to make sure they order her a PSAT test to participate.

[Tsuga]

For math I suggested she start Khan Academy with Pre-A to review and plan to get through Algebra 2. She liked the idea of adaptive practice and non-textbook math.

 

 

Adaptive practice sounds like a great plan.

 

I have a question, though. You mentioned upthread a specific type of technical need for a program, and Temple University for the bachelor's, because the certificate is somehow connected with the BA/BS, is that correct?

 

Having looked through their catalogue, I wonder whether any certificate can be combined with any major. The certificate programs look highly competitive and even though they may technically be available to undergraduates, they may be under separate financial aid stipulations (i.e. Pell grants may not be available). They also may be highly competitive.

 

Have you two called Temple to make sure that this particular path she is imagining is really available to all majors?

[SarahW]

Adaptive practice sounds like a great plan.

 

I have a question, though. You mentioned upthread a specific type of technical need for a program, and Temple University for the bachelor's, because the certificate is somehow connected with the BA/BS, is that correct?

 

Having looked through their catalogue, I wonder whether any certificate can be combined with any major. The certificate programs look highly competitive and even though they may technically be available to undergraduates, they may be under separate financial aid stipulations (i.e. Pell grants may not be available). They also may be highly competitive.

 

Have you two called Temple to make sure that this particular path she is imagining is really available to all majors?

 

Well, it's a federally certified program. Which is run through Temple for Temple students, but isn't Temple's own program. The set up is super confusing.

 

But yes, Temple students enter the program from majors as diverse as Russian History and International Relations.

 

One advantage at Temple is that she could major in something like Criminal Justice and go into regular law enforcement if her goal career doesn't work out. The school she wants to go through has the program set up as a major, with her specific career as a concentration that takes the place of a minor. They say that the major/concentration could also work for going into other careers, but that still makes me nervous. She however, doesn't see the problem. Teens and their unwavering confidence! Oy.

[JanetC]

 

 

And I am tying to figure out Fine Arts. She needs at least one credit, and has been doing interest-led studies in drawing, piano, and digital photography, but I'm not sure how much time she has actually put into them (she's under assignment to write me some course descriptions, which will hopefully help me figure out the credits).

 

 

Assuming she can write up what she did in a coherent fashion, you can lump all these together into one transcript credit called "Fine Arts Survey."  1/3 of a credit for each area studied. It will be explained in the course description.

[GoodGrief]

Re: the PSAT, you (or she or her mom) need to jump on that immediately, as far as finding a location for the October test.  Some places will have already ordered the tests for their school and will have limited slots. Just an FYI from my personal struggle to find a testing location!  :-) 

[SarahW]

Re: the PSAT, you (or she or her mom) need to jump on that immediately, as far as finding a location for the October test.  Some places will have already ordered the tests for their school and will have limited slots. Just an FYI from my personal struggle to find a testing location!  :-) 

 

 

I called the first-choice high school yesterday, and the secretary kinda laughed, "oh, we're not there yet!" Schools just started here last week, soo... I did leave a message with the GC I was transferred to. I'll talk to him today, hopefully.

 

Second-choice high school apparently had interested students sign up in mid-September last year.

 

This must be a really laid-back area. Small blessing to be thankful for, I suppose. :)

 

 

Since everything hasn't been set in stone here yet, is it possible to get a fee waiver? Is it even worth asking about? I mean, it's only $15, but $15 is $15. I see the fee waiver process on CB, but for the PSAT the waiver needs to come through the school? Do high schools give those to homeschoolers?

[Tsuga]

Any BA, including one in criminal justice, will be useful. Honestly, for anything other than engineering or a specific science research post, many liberal arts degrees will be fine. It won't be the highest paying but an MBA and a BA in criminal justice would be an interesting combo indeed.

 

Rather than a $15 fee waiver I'd spend my time on the bigger bucks. For example, identifying a free PSAT prep course or getting a scholarship for her. $15 is 30 minutes of prep or less. If you can get her even 1 week of 1 hr prep, you can multiply your time invested in finding something free, by ten.