Help me get a homeschooled senior into college

[SarahW]

I've had the position of college counselor dumped into my lap for a homeschooled senior. I could go into the background, but it's long and involved and would entail much venting and yelling from me. Anyways, the most important thing is to move forward.

 

The mother is low-income and divorced. Father lives in another state and is not paying child support. Both parents have 2-year degrees.

 

The student currently does not have a transcript or GPA, and has not taken any standardized tests. The mother "isn't sure" what high school courses the student has completed (truly, don't get me started here...). I need to make the student's high school transcript post hoc, and prep the student for either the ACT or SAT.

 

The student can take classes at a local community college this coming year, but being homeschooled needs to pay out of pocket. The mother may be able to contribute some money for online classes.

 

The student's chosen career path requires a bachelor degree. In anything, really. What she needs is a specialty training program. Some colleges have programs that combine the training program with a degree or offer it as a paid internship on the side. There are only a few of these programs in the country though.

 

Student's choice #1 offers very little need or merit aid for out-of-state students. According to the school's own net price calculator, the mother would need to PLUS loan over half of her yearly income. I am insisting that this is off the table.

 

I found another school that includes the program the student is interested in. It only offers merit-aid, though. Merit aid could be quite generous, depending on test scores and GPA. If she gets a high ACT or SAT score the school would be financially feasible. Deadline for financial aid is Feb 15. This is the current "goal" school.

 

I'm also investigating other possibilities.

 

Questions - 

 

1) What is the best way to prep and/or do remediation for math in preparation for ACT or SAT? I'm not sure what math she has completed yet (the student is actually away at the moment) but apparently stuff like fractions has become rusty. I was thinking of assigning a run through Khan's diagnostic program to fill in the gaps. Then heavily prepping the math with test practice books. Any recommendations for test books which do a good job explaining the math behind the test questions?

 

2) For a student who does better in writing/English, is the SAT or ACT a better option? Could she squeak in the new SAT? 

 

3) What senior year math could she do as her math credit while she preps for the test? I was thinking of Jacob's Math:AHE. Is there an online class for that book? The mother is good at math and could help, but since that has never happened before, I'm not expecting that it will happen now.

 

4) The school wants a solid high school program, including 2 years foreign language. I think the student has some background in Spanish, but I'm not sure if it was enough for a credit. Could the student take Spanish 1 and 2 at the community college this year and have that fulfill the requirement?

 

5) For the rest of the high school credits - it seems that the student has been just doing interest-based self-learning. How horrible is it to try to organize what was done into some "odd" classes to fulfill the fine art and history credits? For example, could "The history of the performance of martial arts as entertainment" be a fine arts credit? Are there more pros or more cons to having those types of classes on the transcript?

 

I need to make up a homeschool profile as well. Oh my... I know there's previous threads about that and transcripts, but I've glossed over them. I'll go back and look. In the meantime, if anyone wants to PM me what they made for college applications, I would appreciate it very much.

 

I gotta run. If you need more information, just ask. But it's the internet and all, so I don't want to get into personal details unless it's necessary.

 

 

[Jen in NY]

The questions that bubble up immediately....

 

How competitive is the #1 choice school? Is the student motivated enough to put in another year of high school in order to get some ducks in a row if needed? It may be useful for the student to call the admissions office and talk over the situation.... IOW, what scores do I need to present to you to be competitive? What documentation do you require for coursework? In even a slightly competitive situation, some documentation and recommendations will be required. Then, maybe she could use some free/nearly free internet access courses to make up the 'missing' work if her parents can't do Community College?

 

Is there a work to school pipeline in the chosen field? IOW, is it the kind of thing that an employer would pay for training 'on the job'? For instance, some companies around here pay for associates degrees in engineering technologies for their employees. It would not be a typical 4 year college experience, but would be a way to get into and out of school with little documentation and little debt burden. Just a thought.....

 

Regarding the new SAT... hard to compare to ACT since there are no stats yet. I am wondering the same thing for my high-schooler.

[mschickie]

1 &2)  The SAT is changing this year so it is really going to be hard to prep for that.  No one has seen the new test.  You might have them look at going to the Community College as a full time student, you do not necessarily need either the ACT or SAT for admission to a community college.  As a full time student they could get financial aide and then transfer to their four year school.  Some CCs have 2+2 programs where they will be automatically accepted by the 4 year school.

 

 3) I would have them do a placement test into whatever math program you are looking at.  Saxon is a strong program and Jacob's is good too.  With Saxon dd is able to just read the book and follow along fine but they also sell DVDs that teach the courses.

 

4)  I go back to the point I made in the beginning, yes you could take the course at the CC.  One semester of a college course = 1 year of high school.

 

5)  That type of work can definitely be made into classes just the way you listed it.  Sometimes you need to just be a little creative.  As for the transcript, check here http://www.howtohomeschooltoday.com/freebies/homeschool_forms/record_keeping_forms/transcript_creator/

 

[FaithManor]

Well, without the mother knowing what coursework has been completed, it is going to be difficult to construct a transcript that is accurate. While it might seem like a good idea to pad it to show her accumulating enough credits and the right kind to meet state requirements for graduation, it does not serve the student well in the long run if the work was spotty or not completed because it is so easy to be placed in the wrong classes and end up over one's head.

 

My suggestion would be for her to take some practice ACT's as well as the GED. The GED will allow her to get into community college right away without paying out of pocket dual enrollment because as a traditional student she will be eligible for financial aid. Chances are if her mom is low income and dad isn't paying up, she will have very little expense. Even if this means she does a year of 90 level classes - remedial, prep work that doesn't count towards the degree - this would be a good way to get her ready for freshman degree courses because most CC's have a lot of tutoring options available as well as more 90 level work offered since this is what they are designed to do...bridge a gap for non-traditional students. She can then either stay at the CC to begin her degree or take the ACT and hope for a good score, then apply to four year institutions.

 

If you are seeing high scores on the ACT, that could be an indication that specific math and English work did take place, go through the girls books and any portfolio of work she can produce or do some oral and written quizzing, placement exams, etc. to see if you can award her specific credits. Then you can use CC, if mom can afford dual enrollment, for foreign language, American Gov and Econ which is a requirement, if memory serves, in every single state, and whatever else she needs to make up the difference. But again, with money being a huge concern, I would lean towards the GED. She can take the community college placement exams for free, and then by having the GED she becomes an incoming freshman and has eligibility for financial aid.

 

I hope it all works out for her!

[Mom22ns]

I'm going to answer questions one at a time, then I'll take on the overall issues.

I've had the position of college counselor dumped into my lap for a homeschooled senior. I could go into the background, but it's long and involved and would entail much venting and yelling from me. Anyways, the most important thing is to move forward.

 

The mother is low-income and divorced. Father lives in another state and is not paying child support. Both parents have 2-year degrees.

 

The student currently does not have a transcript or GPA, and has not taken any standardized tests. The mother "isn't sure" what high school courses the student has completed (truly, don't get me started here...). I need to make the student's high school transcript post hoc, and prep the student for either the ACT or SAT.

 

The student can take classes at a local community college this coming year, but being homeschooled needs to pay out of pocket. The mother may be able to contribute some money for online classes.

 

The student's chosen career path requires a bachelor degree. In anything, really. What she needs is a specialty training program. Some colleges have programs that combine the training program with a degree or offer it as a paid internship on the side. There are only a few of these programs in the country though.

 

Student's choice #1 offers very little need or merit aid for out-of-state students. According to the school's own net price calculator, the mother would need to PLUS loan over half of her yearly income. I am insisting that this is off the table.

 

I found another school that includes the program the student is interested in. It only offers merit-aid, though. Merit aid could be quite generous, depending on test scores and GPA. If she gets a high ACT or SAT score the school would be financially feasible. Deadline for financial aid is Feb 15. This is the current "goal" school.

 

I'm also investigating other possibilities.

 

Questions - 

 

1) What is the best way to prep and/or do remediation for math in preparation for ACT or SAT? I'm not sure what math she has completed yet (the student is actually away at the moment) but apparently stuff like fractions has become rusty. I was thinking of assigning a run through Khan's diagnostic program to fill in the gaps. Then heavily prepping the math with test practice books. Any recommendations for test books which do a good job explaining the math behind the test questions?

You might set her to the SAT math on Khan Academy and see how it goes.

 

2) For a student who does better in writing/English, is the SAT or ACT a better option? Could she squeak in the new SAT? 

I would sign her up for both. The deadline for the September ACT is this Friday.

 

3) What senior year math could she do as her math credit while she preps for the test? I was thinking of Jacob's Math:AHE. Is there an online class for that book? The mother is good at math and could help, but since that has never happened before, I'm not expecting that it will happen now.

​This depends on what math she has done. You really aren't clear on that. He has to start where she is and move forward. What about having her do placement testing at the CC to see where she is. 

 

4) The school wants a solid high school program, including 2 years foreign language. I think the student has some background in Spanish, but I'm not sure if it was enough for a credit. Could the student take Spanish 1 and 2 at the community college this year and have that fulfill the requirement?

Yes, two semesters of Spanish at the CC would take care of this.

 

5) For the rest of the high school credits - it seems that the student has been just doing interest-based self-learning. How horrible is it to try to organize what was done into some "odd" classes to fulfill the fine art and history credits? For example, could "The history of the performance of martial arts as entertainment" be a fine arts credit? Are there more pros or more cons to having those types of classes on the transcript?

There is nothing wrong with writing up what she has done for credits. However, I would be careful about having too many fluff credits. Whether having those classes on her transcript will hurt her is largely dependent on the school she is applying. However, I would not have many.

 

I need to make up a homeschool profile as well. Oh my... I know there's previous threads about that and transcripts, but I've glossed over them. I'll go back and look. In the meantime, if anyone wants to PM me what they made for college applications, I would appreciate it very much. 

Before you stress over this, check and see if the college she is applying to has an online application she can do instead of the common ap. If so, there is a great chance she will not a homeschool profile. We've applied one school at a time and avoided all of those 'extra' documents.

 

So, now that I've answered your questions, I'm glad you took her dream school off the table, but I don't think it sounds likely she can do the second choice school either. If she hasn't done a college prep high school education, she isn't likely to be getting a lot of merit aid. That doesn't mean she can't go, but it isn't what I would encourage. I would get her signed up for the ACT and SAT and I would tell her only if she does well there is a 4-year school an option.

 

What I would encourage instead is getting to the CC TODAY. Fill out an application and take whatever placement test they use. Again, if she blows away these tests, then she has clearly done something in the last 3 years and should be able to put that work onto a transcript and apply to college. Even so, CC will most likely be cheaper than a 4-year college even with scholarships. She may start in remedial classes and may or may not be able to take those as a dual enrolled student. I would put her in Spanish and whatever math she tests into first semester if that is possible.

 

Right now, I'd worry less about the transcript and more about getting school on track. If her testing goes well and she is getting some required classes done, then you have plenty of time to pull together a transcript.

[SarahW]

To answer briefly - the problem with going to CC is that if she applies to "goal" school as a transfer she is ineligible for the tuition-covered merit aid, and her highest possible scholarship makes the school financially unfeasible.

 

She wants to have graduated already. She has an early Fall birthday (when she turns 18), so her grade level could go either way. Going to the CC as a college student would make her lose a lot of money in non-freshman aid, much more than CC would save in tuition costs. I am insisting that she NOT graduate, it just doesn't look worth it. Plus, the certificate program presupposes the student is there for four years, so I don't think it is even logical for her to start college now.

 

She could do the certificate program on her own dime after she gets a bachelors from anywhere. But employment prospects are dimmer, especially when "goal" school is turning out a 100% placement rate in a field with few openings. This may be what will end up happening, but I want to at least show her how to try the "best" option.

 

I honestly don't know how exactly she would test with some good math review and prep. She's not an idiot, she's just....been underinformed. Way, way, way underinformed. 

[JanetC]

Continuing on exploring the GED track: You might check into the community college's programs for high school drop-outs, which if mom hasn't been supervising and tracking her education and the kid doesn't know fractions, may be what this student really is. There are a couple of community colleges near me that offer high school degree programs. Because they are geared towards students who struggled in school, they include very intensive mentoring on study skills and career preparation. Something like this would be ideal for her!

 

Is there some reason you are being coy about this student's preferred career and field of study? Given her history, this is a student who is at high risk for poverty. You do not want her training for a career in a limited niche or graduating with lots of student loans. She needs a path to economic security. If the only schools that offer her program also offer no need-based financial aid, this is a red flag to me.

[JanetC]

To answer briefly - the problem with going to CC is that if she applies to "goal" school as a transfer she is ineligible for the tuition-covered merit aid, and her highest possible scholarship makes the school financially unfeasible.

 

 

Let's try this mental exercise: Suppose with her self-determination and your coaching, she manages to pull off a stellar SAT score. You're sitting on an admissions committee and you have lots of kids with traditional transcripts, honors/AP classes, extra-curriculars, school awards, etc. and then there's this homeschooled kid who clearly has the desire and an up-from-the-bootstraps background story, but she has a spottily-documented transcript and some weird classes like "The history of the performance of martial arts as entertainment" and a couple CC Spanish classes.

 

What else has she got to put her in the running for a large merit scholarship? Any achievements? talents? awards? What makes her not just a "sweet kid we should root for," but a star among the school's applicant pool? There are only a handful of full-tuition scholarships to go around, after all.

 

While it's OK to reach for the best possible option, it's also essential to cast a wide net for schools that are going to have either low price tags or good need-based aid as well.

[FaithManor]

Let's try this mental exercise: Suppose with her self-determination and your coaching, she manages to pull off a stellar SAT score. You're sitting on an admissions committee and you have lots of kids with traditional transcripts, honors/AP classes, extra-curriculars, school awards, etc. and then there's this homeschooled kid who clearly has the desire and an up-from-the-bootstraps background story, but she has a spottily-documented transcript and some weird classes like "The history of the performance of martial arts as entertainment" and a couple CC Spanish classes.

 

What else has she got to put her in the running for a large merit scholarship? Any achievements? talents? awards? What makes her not just a "sweet kid we should root for," but a star among the school's applicant pool? There are only a handful of full-tuition scholarships to go around, after all.

 

While it's OK to reach for the best possible option, it's also essential to cast a wide net for schools that are going to have either low price tags or good need-based aid as well.

I could not agree more! She's almost 18 and really does not have a transcript that any of the tier 1 schools are going to get excited about. CC followed by regional U is probably the best fit at least for a while. There are transfer scholarships so she could use the time at CC and regional U to research what it is going to take to get those.

 

I am sorry to be the debby downer, but a kid with an at best spotty education and likely very poor math skills possibly writing as well is not going to get a second look for merit aid even if the SAT or ACT score were high. Without the foundational skills in the first place, she can't use test prep to shore up enough to get that score up there. Plus, there is the issue of these tests requiring certain test taking skills which she does not likely have.

 

The top notch program is not out of reach. It is out of reach on a traditional path however. It is something she might be able to begin after remediation is complete.

 

In terms of 90 level work, that's not transferable and does not count as "freshman work". In that respect, it would not hurt her chances of getting scholarships if these courses were used to complete high school.

 

The two best CC's within commuting distance of us do have programs for assisting "drop outs" which is technically what she is as her parents did not produce a program of study commensurate with the homeschooling statutes of their home state in all likelihood and most certainly not for standards for high school diploma in many states, and so there may be a lot of free help available at this point.

 

Need based aid is far more likely in her case than merit aid. Merit aid is tough to get...usually only the top 20% of the incoming freshmen get it and at some schools only 10% so we are talking 30 and up on the ACT plus DE or AP's plus extracurricular involvement with letters of recommendation, plus essay writing at high level of skill....that is what it takes these days. But, again, low income mom, dad not paying child support sounds to me like an excellent chance for need based aid and free if not virtually free community college.

 

While the ideal is always nice, real life gets in the way, and a path that leads to some financial security at a fairly young age sounds smart given the parental situation.

[katilac]

I wouldn't attempt any plans until she takes a practice ACT, just one at home to get a baseline score. Getting a 19 w/o prep is vastly different from getting a 28 w/o prep, and will give you a better idea of how possible her goals are. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On the topic of SAT, the revised test doesn't roll out until spring. So this year's seniors would use the current test. College apps are due before the new test hits the street.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I have helped homeschooled teens in similar situations. I agree with everything JanetC is saying.

 

In my experience, there are two ideas to camp out on, and pray the young person will believe you. (And that she'll put aside bitterness or blame and just pull up her bootstraps.)

 

1. A person can do big things and have a great life, even if their childhood - upbringing and education - was not OK. There's always a future and a hope for happiness and success.

 

2. But anyone who missed the bus has to wait for the next one, or start walking. A combination of waiting and working must be accepted and pursued to bring about #1.

 

What might it look like, to wait and work?

 

-- remediate high school and graduate very late, with a traditional diploma (rarely a good idea; these are adults)

-- go for quicker adult Ed options, such as GED to CC

-- consider vocational school...one can move from allied health to nursing, for example, over time

 

Even people who went to public school and got decent grades sometimes have to face reality: they are not going to Harvard or MIT. Their prep level and native talent are not going to allow for biomedical engineering (or whatever their dream) as an undergrad degree. They'll have to choose CC or vocational school or skilled trades or the military....like millions of others.

 

But once one succeeds in ANY of those tracks, there are bridges to higher education and many more options. Work + time.

 

Help this girl see levels of achievement, and bridges, and help her play the hand she's been dealt. Get the assessments done so she can know exactly what that hand is, and what her immediate options are.

[dhudson]

I would seriously look at the local CC that might move into an University. Even if she did really well on ACT/SAT and you managed to hobble a transcript together, would she honestly be prepared for that degree program? Would it be better for her actual education to take basics at a CC to train and educate her properly without her diving into the deep end of the University?

[katilac]

 

 

I found another school that includes the program the student is interested in. It only offers merit-aid, though.  

 

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Every school will at least accept a Pell Grant, and I've really never heard of one that doesn't offer any additional need-based aid. Have you run their calculator? Public or private? 

 

Given the limited information we have, I don't think that college is completely off the table for her next year - you really need to have some sample test scores and see what her credits might look like.

 

I've known of several homeschooling families who have done pretty much exactly what you're talking about: looking back at what's been done and cobbling it into credits. There's nothing 'wrong' with odd credits, the school can accept them or not. I've seen people rejected at schools that were near safeties, and accepted at schools where they had very little chance.  It's a quirky process. 

 

Several people have commented that a top or tier 1 school isn't likely to accept her or give her merit aid with weird credits, even if she gets a great ACT score, but I haven't seen where you've stated that the 2nd choice is indeed a top school. Is it? Is it super selective, super rigorous, or just a 'good' school? 

 

Even if it is, she can apply and let them tell her yes or no. One of my first bosses used to tell me, "Never tell yourself no" and he was right. There is certainly a chance that she will be ill-prepared to succeed in college, but there is an even greater chance that she will never go if she doesn't go now.

 

A lot of schools have extensive first year support and ongoing tutoring, so, wherever she gets in, she needs to find out exactly what they have and take full advantage of it. 

 

My opinion? If she doesn't get in, or gets in and fails out, she can wait and work then. 

 

Definitely, she needs a list of additional safety schools (both academic and financial safety). Remind her that she can attempt a transfer to the school she wants if they don't admit her right away. 

 

Google ACT vs SAT and take the little quiz to see which one suits her best. She shouldn't waste time prepping for both. 

 

Take a practice test. 

 

See what credits she has. 

 

Make a list of safeties. 

 

Work, work, work. 

 

And, she can likely get fee waivers for both the ACT and applications. 

[SarahW]

Typing one handed (baby) so forgive my slowness and brevity.

 

"Goal" school is ranked by USNews as 100-150. But maybe their grad professional schools give it a bump up. That's the vibe I'm getting from CC.

 

Not trying to be coy about her career plans, just that it is highly specialized. Happy to PM personal details to anyone who wants to know.

 

I thought I saw the new SAT in Jan .... not finding that again....

 

The merit aid starts with 25/1150 scores. I think the merit aid is pretty much automatic. There's no separate application. 

 

And there's need-aid with the Pell, of course, but Pell is a drop in the bucket. She needs money for R&B. Poking around the website I see some need aid mentioned, but no concrete numbers, so they may just mean the pell. Maybe I can find out the current EFC and shoot an inquiry to the Finaid office. The school's net price calculator sends me to CB, which gives me different numbers than what I see on their site.

 

 

As for what her application would look like - I think she's pretty good on the EC side, plenty to list that relate to her goal career. That's where she is at the moment - doing volunteer work with a national organization. There's some leadership experience. And I think some charity as well. But on the academic side only she knows, so until she gets back I don't know how good or awful that is, nor how well she can test. I also don't know if she'll listen to me, or do the work. Sigh. Hopefully the shock of losing her dream school will make her take notice of the fact that the world doesn't hand you what you want, especially when you're poor.

 

posting so i don't lose this...

 

 

[creekland]

Before I went into any more in depth thought I'd have her take a practice SAT & ACT (using library books or others you have) and I'd find an online math placement test (TT has some) to see where she's at.

 

Any advice is going to vary a ton based upon what you see on paper IME.

[kiana]

I don't think doing only test-prep specific math is a good plan at this level, but rather working through something that is designed to find and fix holes. Since she's got her senior year coming up I would actually recommend math at the CC, at whatever level she places into. This will accomplish several things:

 

1) It will help her score better on the tests.

2) It will give her some outside grades, which (if good) will lend a lot of credibility to whatever transcript she can come up with. 

3) It will prepare her for external grades and deadlines, which, if she has never done any sort of outside class, can be overwhelming. 

 

If she reads and enjoys reading and uses proper grammar when she speaks she'll probably be ok in english/humanities courses. 

 

Taking Spanish at the CC is a fine plan for getting her two years of language credits. 

[SarahW]

I think DE here has rules about what level math course is allowed. At least, it used to.

 

I checked the local/cheap option for a recommended bachelor degree. Local State  commuter U also requires 4/3/3/3 with 2/1 recommended. Pell won't cover full tuition, but there's merit aid for freshman starting at 20 ACT (renewable with 3.0). Max transfer aid is less than freshman aid. She'll probably still need more high school credits, and 2 FL. DE at local CC automatically transfers.

 

I am thinking that for either option she'll DE Spanish and some lab science(s) and maybe math. Do English and history at home. And study hard for a test. I'll need to check if local U accepts the SAT, otherwise that makes the decision for the ACT. She'll get fee waivers everywhere, yeah, so then I suppose she could send out the apps and see what the actual fin aid package ends up being.  

 

Maybe I can organize the transcript by subject? I'll do a forum search about that. 

[Love_to_Read]

For test prep books, I've had success with an earlier version of Barron's SAT Math Workbook that was good at really breaking down the problems step by step, through remembering how to do fractions and everything else.  I'm going to assume the current version is similar, but you'd want to check the sample to see.

 

My favorite overall SAT test prep book, however, was Kaplan's, and it does cover more strategy than the workbook.  Again, it was an earlier version, and they change constantly.  But, they did a good job of covering both strategy and specific key problem types.  I see that Kaplan also produces a Math Workbook, but I haven't used it.  Both Kaplan and Barron's are available on Kindle, so you could request the sample Kindle chapter if the Look Inside feature on Amazon doesn't show enough for you to decide between them. ETA: Ftr, I didn't care for Barron's general book, even though I liked the math workbook.

 

Basically, for someone that far behind, I'd have her take the ACT vs. SAT quiz that someone mentioned above, then a sample test of each. Buy a math workbook from one of the major test prep companies to start work immediately, and decide whether her verbal will need the same approach or whether it's strong enough to get away with a general book.  Plan on her working through those almost daily right up until the test.  Plan on at least 8 hrs (2hrs/wk for a month) of working through the main ideas of a general test prep book, plus time to take at least portions of practice tests every week for that last month or two.  (Of course, it's up to her whether she'll put that time in, but those are the timeframes I recall from my days of tutoring professionally.  But really, 8-16hr to FLY through the general test prep book together is about as fast as it will go realistically for someone who isn't prepared, and even longer for the depth of the math-specific workbook.)

 

Regarding the transcript, if mom is being this vague...does the student have any recollection of topics studied?  Did she ever follow any sort of plan, suggestion, or booklist, even one that she found on her own?  I'd pretty much go down through a list of what normal students study and see what rings a bell, as well as having her describe what stands out to her as major interests.  So...ancient history? Middle ages? Renaissance? the age of exploration?  American history--colonies, revolution, pioneers, civil war, World Wars? History or geography of any other countries?  American literature? British literature? Poetry? Drama? What does she read? Algebra, Geometry, Statistics? Biology, chemistry, physics, geology, meterology, botany (gardening?), anatomy and physiology (in her study of martial arts perhaps), technology such as computer science?  I'm going to guess that a lot of these are going to get you blank stares, but maybe if you can walk her backward or forward through time, perhaps you'll hit upon some major interest that fits somewhere.

For Spanish, trying to afford Spanish I and II at the CC as duel enrollment sounds like the best option.  If that ends up being out of reach financially, my other thought would be something like using Rosetta Stone to attempt to earn CLEP credit.  Either way, that's a lot to bite off while also doing heavy duty test prep, but perhaps the Latin roots will help her with her SAT vocab indirectly.

[JanetC]

Not trying to be nosy if you feel it is too personal to post school and major. If you post the school name and/or career field, someone may have experience or alternative programs to share.

 

Anyway, to get a basic handle on goal school's generosity, go to CollegeData.com and search for your college, then choose Money Matters.

 

This will show you the average amount of financial need met, the average indebtedness at graduation, the number of students receiving merit aid, the number of students with other types of aid and all sorts of useful statistics. There will also be a link to the school's net price calculator, which you should run.

 

The Big Future website by the College Board will show you much of the same data, only with pretty charts and graphs. However, while it shows you the average merit award, it doesn't make it clear how many students actually got merit money. Search for the college, then choose Paying on the left bar and Financial Aid by the Numbers across the top bar.

 

It is very common at many schools for all applicants to be considered for merit aid without a separate application. That does not mean that everyone is awarded it automatically. If collegedata shows that 30% of the students receive merit aid, that gives you a clue that you need to be in the top 30% of the applicants. Since you know that you have financial need, the percent of all students with full need met will also be very enlightening. If the school meets full need of 30% of the students, those are the ones getting merit aid above the default, gapped awards.

For all schools -- run those net price calculators! And for state schools, be aware that some freshman scholarships are just for freshmen. Some will renew for four years and some won't so be sure to ask.

[mschickie]

Have you checked with the admissions office of the school she wants to go to?  There are often separate scholarships for transfer students and there are often tons of needs based programs/money at their discretion that are not always advertised. To get a better idea I would actually call the admissions office and see what they say.  Sometimes the websites do not have all the answers or there may be other ways around it.

[SarahW]

collegedata is a great site, wow. I found a local (not state U) school that offers very good need aid. I'm throwing it into the mix. Huh, I should have gone there. Ooops.

 

"Goal" school is Temple. The training program only exists in like 5 schools in America, so it wouldn't be hard to connect the dots, that's all.

 

 

As for the dream school - The mother and student actually drove clear across the country to visit that school in April. Apparently she thought she could start there this September (I mentioned she was underinformed already, yes?). They talked to the fin aid office in person and got the same info that I got when I ran the price calculator (which was freely available before they drove all the way there!). There is simply no institutional money offered to out-of-state. None.

[mjbucks1]

"Goal" school is Temple

 

Has she visited Temple?  

[SarahW]

Has she visited Temple?  

 

 

No. She probably doesn't really want to live in Philly, but she has a family member in the Poconos she can visit on weekends and do laundry. She's been there before and likes it, so hopefully that could ease the location issue. And the training program includes lots of time off-campus, so once she's fully into that she won't be in Philly much anyways.

[SarahW]

Continuing on exploring the GED track: You might check into the community college's programs for high school drop-outs, which if mom hasn't been supervising and tracking her education and the kid doesn't know fractions, may be what this student really is. There are a couple of community colleges near me that offer high school degree programs. Because they are geared towards students who struggled in school, they include very intensive mentoring on study skills and career preparation. Something like this would be ideal for her!

 

Is there some reason you are being coy about this student's preferred career and field of study? Given her history, this is a student who is at high risk for poverty. You do not want her training for a career in a limited niche or graduating with lots of student loans. She needs a path to economic security. If the only schools that offer her program also offer no need-based financial aid, this is a red flag to me.

 

 

Just wanted to come back to this now that I have more than just a moment.

 

The mother was once told the line that once a homeschooled kid reaches middle school or so they can be "independent learners" and "teach themselves." She thinks homeschooling anyone who can read involves simply handing them some books to do and telling them to come to her if they have any questions. If she doesn't get any questions, she assumes that everything is going just fine. She had undiagnosed dyslexia and had a rough time in school herself, so there's quite a bit of anti-school talk from her, which doesn't exactly contribute to an environment of high intellectual morale.

 

This will also be the third time she's having to throw together a transcript post hoc. Actually, no, she told the other siblings to put together their own transcripts. The other siblings though were self-starters who had managed to get themselves some good DE (one sibling tricked the high school into paying for it, but they're not falling for it again, unfortunately). So she apparently thinks that it worked out okay for them, so it's fine. Well, no, not for someone who is not an above-average self-starter, like this student is.

 

Ugh, I'm venting. Just a bit. I could vent lots and lots more.

 

The training program involves special non-military weapons permits. There's no need for many more training centers, that's all. If she doesn't get her goal career, the bachelor's degree would help her move into a related field. At worst, she could become a police officer for a local city, which is still decent enough pay. That's assuming she graduates from high school, and gets into college (!)

 

 

 

Anyways, thanks all for the help. I've got four schools on my list, goal and safety, and two more local schools which may meet full need. I think I have a game plan for math and DE and SAT prep. When the student gets back I'll have a Very Serious Talk with her and see how it goes over. Now that I'm thinking about it, I remember seeing high school Apologia books at her house. Hopefully that means there's something I can work with for her transcript. I do hope so.

[FaithManor]

Just wanted to come back to this now that I have more than just a moment.

 

The mother was once told the line that once a homeschooled kid reaches middle school or so they can be "independent learners" and "teach themselves." She thinks homeschooling anyone who can read involves simply handing them some books to do and telling them to come to her if they have any questions. If she doesn't get any questions, she assumes that everything is going just fine. She had undiagnosed dyslexia and had a rough time in school herself, so there's quite a bit of anti-school talk from her, which doesn't exactly contribute to an environment of high intellectual morale.

 

This will also be the third time she's having to throw together a transcript post hoc. Actually, no, she told the other siblings to put together their own transcripts. The other siblings though were self-starters who had managed to get themselves some good DE (one sibling tricked the high school into paying for it, but they're not falling for it again, unfortunately). So she apparently thinks that it worked out okay for them, so it's fine. Well, no, not for someone who is not an above-average self-starter, like this student is.

 

Ugh, I'm venting. Just a bit. I could vent lots and lots more.

 

The training program involves special non-military weapons permits. There's no need for many more training centers, that's all. If she doesn't get her goal career, the bachelor's degree would help her move into a related field. At worst, she could become a police officer for a local city, which is still decent enough pay. That's assuming she graduates from high school, and gets into college (!)

 

 

 

Anyways, thanks all for the help. I've got four schools on my list, goal and safety, and two more local schools which may meet full need. I think I have a game plan for math and DE and SAT prep. When the student gets back I'll have a Very Serious Talk with her and see how it goes over. Now that I'm thinking about it, I remember seeing high school Apologia books at her house. Hopefully that means there's something I can work with for her transcript. I do hope so.

That is just so tough. The mom's attitude and lack of involvement, planning, and leading so negatively affects this child's future. GRRRR.....

 

I don't know why people seem to think it is okay to deliberately limit their child's future options. It's the kind of thing that I can't wrap my brain around.

[TrixieB]

I didn't read all the replies, but wanted to mention that if your community college is on the quarter system, each 5 credit quarter class equals 1 year of high school credit.  So theoretically a student could get 15 high school credits in one year through the community college. 

[Teachin'Mine]

Instead of looking at what she needs to get into college, I'd be more concerned with what she needs to be ready for college.  As others have mentioned, I'd start by explaining the standardized test and how to take it and then administering a practice ACT complete with bubble sheets and pencil.  The scores will let you know where she's at in the different areas and then you can plan where she should begin and what she can get high school credit for having completed.  I'd also talk with her about how she came to the decision that she wants to pursue her career and make sure that she knows what the job entails.  Is shadowing possible?  IMO it just seems so restrictive to only have five colleges as options especially considering her need for financial aid.   The Poconos and Philadelphia are a world apart.  How would she get to family in the Poconos?  If she needs to provide her own transportation, that's an expensive way to do laundry.  I also think she needs to visit Temple.

 

I think I know the program and it's both academically and physically rigorous.  I'm not understanding why she'd have to attend Temple for undergraduate in order to apply for this certification.  At least 60 credits are needed prior to applying and the candidate must be 21 by the time the certification program (13 weeks?) is completed.  The 60 credits could be completed inexpensively at a CC near her home and then she could apply to this program.  It sounds like she should work on physical endurance and all in addition to academics.  I may be wrong about all of this, but if not, I'd broaden the college search once you know where her test scores and skills are at.

 

Maybe you could arrange a visit to Temple with her and arrange for her to speak with someone in her specific program so she can get some specific questions answered.  Maybe she could look at schools which offer some type of ROTC program as that would get her the physical training and other skills which would likely be useful.  She doesn't have to enter it for the scholarship as that would be tied to a military commitment.   Others more familiar with those programs could give you better advice on that if she's interested.

 

After checking further, I may be totally wrong in the program she's interested in as it seems the training for the program I'm thinking of is more widely available,   

[SarahW]

Teachin'Mine, I tried sending you a PM, but I'm not seeing a way to message you. And the "Recipients Name" field doesn't recognize you.

 

I'm not worried about the physical side. She's perfectly good there.

 

From my research, to be competitive for a position a bachelor degree is highly recommended. The degree could theoretically be in anything, but certain majors and minors are suggested.

[Teachin'Mine]

Sorry, I don't have PM enabled.  Back when the forum format changed, what had been written in one of my PMs showed up elsewhere.  Don't know if it was a glitch or what, so I disabled it.  I miss being able to PM with others, but ...  

 

So if she can attend anywhere with the suggested majors and minors, hopefully she'll have more options.

 

Please let me know if you want any info I posted deleted.  

[SarahW]

Sorry, I don't have PM enabled.  Back when the forum format changed, what had been written in one of my PMs showed up elsewhere.  Don't know if it was a glitch or what, so I disabled it.  I miss being able to PM with others, but ...  

 

So if she can attend anywhere with the suggested majors and minors, hopefully she'll have more options.

 

Please let me know if you want any info I posted deleted.  

 

Oh no, what you wrote was fine! I just wanted to PM about whether you had experience or info about the program. I'm just giving myself a internet-based crash course here.... 

 

We're probably talking about the same program. There used to be more training centers, but recently many have closed, including the one at the college in the student's state of residence. Temple is actually the closest program geographically. 

 

She could go anywhere with the suggested majors/minors and do the certificate program when she's 21, yeah. It's just more expensive to pay for the program OOP and also keep up with volunteering and internships on the side throughout college to remain competitive with experience and demonstrated interest.

 

 

Hmm, the physical fitness question gives me another thought. If she were going to public school she'd likely be on the cross-country team. But she's not allowed to join school athletics in her state, so she runs on her own. Not sure if she does any races though...registration fees aren't free. But is it possible or advisable to demonstrate interest in trying out for the University's cross country team without having a high school background? Or would just the thought put us through the NCAA-eligibility horror that I've heard about? 

[Lucy the Valiant]

Any chance you could convince her to do 1 more year of high school to (a) firm up that transcript and (b) give her more time to assess the real options?

 

And - throwing it out there - most libraries have free practice SAT and ACT books (and GED ones, too) - you could borrow one, give her the test at home, and score it with the book to get close to what her test day score could be. That's about a 4 hour time commitment (on her part), so - relatively easy to do (assuming she's not working, etc.). Those practice tests can take a good deal of the mystery out of it.

 

 

 

(Editing: The College Board actually as a full-length free practice SAT on their site; she could do that one TONIGHT. The ACT is often equally-rigorous (there's a strong correlation in scores usually), but has a different testing "personality" - AKA, more straightforward & fast as opposed to the SAT's slower but more convoluted question style.)

[Tsuga]

Community college is college and while many of the students are non-traditional, many students are just plain from poor or working-class families and can't afford state universities without a full ride.

 

I would strongly encourage her to consider CC considering her high school background without a foreign language and possibly without college-prep math in particular.

 

Partner: Brand name -> CC (because he was homesick) -> State flagship in STEM, career in science

Cousin 1: CC -> State flagship in CA -> Harvard Med, private practice

Cousin 2: CC -> State flagship in CA -> Yale, CPA @ a major firm

Cousin 3: CC -> State flagship in VA -> Biotech career

Cousin 4: CC -> State flagship in WA-> State flagship, ready to graduate with a master's

Cousin 5: State school -> State school -> Worked as an engineer in upper management now for about 20 years, top of her field

Cousin 6: CC -> State school -> State flagship -> Dr. of Nursing

Me: State school -> CC-> State school -> State flagship -> Career in a STEM field + management

Stepkids mom, same thing, CC, state flagship, private law school, works as a lawyer.

 

I don't care who snubs their noses--I might not make a ton working for the state but I have a respectable career, and so do all those in my family who attended CC. 

 

I think for the student you are mentioning it could be an excellent choice. If you get her to a HS diploma and then she does two years at CC as a college student (earning top grades), she could go very far.

 

Or she could work her little tushie off as many have outlined above. It will be hard but it's do-able.

[SarahW]

Any chance you could convince her to do 1 more year of high school to (a) firm up that transcript and (b) give her more time to assess the real options?

 

And - throwing it out there - most libraries have free practice SAT and ACT books (and GED ones, too) - you could borrow one, give her the test at home, and score it with the book to get close to what her test day score could be. That's about a 4 hour time commitment (on her part), so - relatively easy to do (assuming she's not working, etc.). Those practice tests can take a good deal of the mystery out of it.

 

 

 

(Editing: The College Board actually as a full-length free practice SAT on their site; she could do that one TONIGHT. The ACT is often equally-rigorous (there's a strong correlation in scores usually), but has a different testing "personality" - AKA, more straightforward & fast as opposed to the SAT's slower but more convoluted question style.)

 

 

Do you mean the coming year, or an additional year after this one?

 

I talked to the mom today it can be arranged that she does CC this year as DE.

 

 

 

Tsuga - I don't dislike CC, though the local CC is really not good, academically speaking. But most of the possible schools offer little financial aid to transfers. I'm pretty sure I'm reading their sites right, because there's chatter on college confidential saying the same. It's a tough position to be in.

 

There is a Plan C option I'm outlining for her that involves getting an AAS at the CC and then transferring that to either of two local U's which have special articulation agreements just for students in that major. If she's not willing to put in the hard work for the next few months, that's what will end up happening. It's not the end of the world, no, but it is tougher and aid for the last two years at Uni is iffy. 

[Tsuga]

If it is easy she has a better chance at a 4.0. I don't see how aid would be iffier for a transfer student--30% of spots at our flagship are for transfers and while you don't get that first year of aid, few freshmen get a lot beyond that, so really you may save. It's usually only worse for a highly qualified person, not for someone with transcripts on the edge like the girl you are helping. I have a hard time imagining that without calc she will be able to blow the sat out of the water but who knows--it is amazing what some people can do! Good luck!

 

Eta: I recall now she is looking at Temple? But while her mom is low income they don't qualify for need aid? That does not make sense to me. Are they middle income? Temple looks to be the nation's 6th most expensive public school, and selective at that.

 

Your post says, how to get a senior into college. But what you really should be asking is how to get an unschooled kid into one of the nation's priciest flagships for free. Not to put too fine a point on it but those are not remotely the same thing.

 

I do sincerely admire your generosity in helping this family and wish you every bit of luck.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Do you mean the coming year, or an additional year after this one?

 

I talked to the mom today it can be arranged that she does CC this year as DE.

 

 

 

Tsuga - I don't dislike CC, though the local CC is really not good, academically speaking. But most of the possible schools offer little financial aid to transfers. I'm pretty sure I'm reading their sites right, because there's chatter on college confidential saying the same. It's a tough position to be in.

 

There is a Plan C option I'm outlining for her that involves getting an AAS at the CC and then transferring that to either of two local U's which have special articulation agreements just for students in that major. If she's not willing to put in the hard work for the next few months, that's what will end up happening. It's not the end of the world, no, but it is tougher and aid for the last two years at Uni is iffy. 

 

I think when you read discussions on College Confidential about lower financial aid to transfers who attended CC, you need to consider a couple distinctions to the conversation:

 

There is a strong difference between attending CC as a high school graduate (who is more likely to be considered a transfer student) and as a dual enrolled student who is still in high school (who might very well be able to start a 4 year uni as a freshman, even if many of the the CC credits earned in high school transfer).

 

There may also be a big difference in aid available to transfer students when you are looking at need based aid (ie, considering family income and assets) vs merit based aid (based on grades and test scores).  The students I see commenting on College Confidential seem to often be looking at ways to maximize merit aid.  

 

When someone else asked about her staying a high schooler longer, I think what they were trying to ask is if she could either spend 5 years in high school or re-designate what year is what such that she could spend the next couple years accumulating credits, knowledge and skills as a dual enrolled high schooler at the community college.  This option would let her come out the other side of two years with a stronger transcript, possibly better test scores, and credits that might be accepted at the eventual 4 year school.  

 

[some folks on the board and elsewhere have described caps on credit earned as a DE student before they are considered transfers rather than incoming freshmen.  Others have kids who have gone in as freshmen, even with 30+ CC credits as dual enrolled students.  It depends mightily on which college is assessing the credits.]

[GoodGrief]

If at all possible, I'd plan on a '17 graduation. Say high school started in '13. A lot of the exchange students add a year of high school because their junior year abroad ends up putting them behind. Two years of structured courses would be invaluable given her goals.

[SarahW]

 

Eta: I recall now she is looking at Temple? But while her mom is low income they don't qualify for need aid? That does not make sense to me. Are they middle income? Temple looks to be the nation's 6th most expensive public school, and selective at that.

 

Like I already said upthread, she would get full Pell and Staffords, is that what you're talking about? But I don't see Temple offering anything more for need from their own pocket. And Pell and Staffords don't cover an expensive school, no.

[SarahW]

I hope I didn't give the initial impression that the student has just been laying around in bed dreaming of carrying a big gun. My frustration with the situation is more with the mother not providing oversight. Like most people left to her own devices, the student has done a lot in stuff she likes, but has let stuff she doesn't like slide. So she is very strong on the EC's and physical fitness, but weak on math.

 

After talking to the mom yesterday there may something I can work with for a transcript. There's a co-op lab science (taught by an adjunct at CC) and some distance learning. And apparently some outside validation of the student being very strong in English and writing. But the mother "isn't sure" if she still has the records ( :svengo:) so I may need to rely on the student's memory and track down some instructors for the info.

 

If the student really is good at writing, I'm thinking to encourage her to take the SAT with writing. Some schools say they won't consider it, and others say they average it with the English score. Perhaps a very good writing score will ease any concerns with an odd homeschool transcript?

 

Likewise, none of the schools I'm looking at have mentioned SAT2's, even for homeschoolers. But since we're probably in the situation where she knows things, but can't really show that she knows them, I'm wondering if a few SAT2's, in history perhaps, would help.

 

I don't think I could convince her to be in high school two more years, That would mean she graduates a few months shy of her 20th birthday. Which isn't necessarily horrible, but she is itching to carry that big gun when she's 21. I'll try to capitalize on that itch to get her motivated to fill out her transcript this year. I probably won't be on this continent when she's 21, so I can bring out my own big guns. ;)  

[FaithManor]

Like I already said upthread, she would get full Pell and Staffords, is that what you're talking about? But I don't see Temple offering anything more for need from their own pocket. And Pell and Staffords don't cover an expensive school, no.

I just look up their rates for 2015/2016. The average student financial aid package is $15,373.00. That will likely include $5500.00 in federal loans leaving an average balance of around $9000.00 based on. Of course if she is on the low end of the bell curve for income, the package will likely be more. Still, OOS and frankly little chance of a good SAT score means she isn't likely to get one of their $1000-3000 standard scholarships based on a sliding scale of GPA and test scores.

 

I truly doubt she is ready to take on the academic load of Temple. She would be so much better off not graduating until 2017, taking Spanish at the community college but not transferring it for credit just using it to finish high school, and spending the extra year really getting her math, reading comprehension in terms of speed (without speed, a good score on standardized tests is not happening), and writing skills brought up in order to increase her chances of a good score. She also needs to experience a full high school work load and schedule so that she is better prepared for 12-15 credit hours at a tier 1 institution.

 

This also gives her the opportunity to work a few hours of week so she'll also be able to handle study and a campus job which will likely be part of the financial aid package as well and that money can be used for books and incidentals for each semester since it is not likely that her mother can afford these things. She will still be a dependent of her mother so if she is just working a few hours per week at a minimum wage job, it shouldn't affect her FAFSA.

 

All of this is of course completely and utterly dependent upon her mother actually doing the FASFA on time. Some families in which this kind of thing happens are unwilling to do so and stubborn about it. For government purposes there is no way they will declare her independent and without FAFSA she will not be eligible for any assistance, federal loans, campus subsidized job, etc. In that case the only option for her is either private loans and a boatload of them which is not a good plan at all or working her way through CC one class at a time while she works 20-40 hours per week minimum wage to afford it. Again, a rather discouraging plan.

 

I really think she need to delay graduation and do more actual high school work instead of trying to cobble together a transcript as well as some CC and balance that with a little work in order to give her good preparation for what lies ahead in terms of academic load as well as working her way through Temple. As it is, it does not sound like she would even have a strong shot of being admitted. On top of which, schools only work hard to help find the money for those students they really want. At this point, I doubt she would be in that category.

 

Even though she is not a PS student, if she has not been graduated from a homeschooling plan, chances are she can get DE which is heavily reduced tuition at the CC. It is the case at least in my state. They don't discriminate against homeschooled students. I think the good CC only charges $50.00 a credit hour for DE so $150.00 for a three credit hour course. She should be able to earn that money this semester for next semester. The question is whether or not she will have transportation. Possibly online classes if she does not.

[FaithManor]

Well, the only way I can see her entering Temple in 2016/17 is if she can come up with the money to handle say four courses either online from the CC or in person and use those not for transfer credits, but to demonstrate ability and shore up that transcript. She is going to need to be competitive in order to get more than the standard merit award due to the finances. However, I thought that money for DE was a problem mentioned in the first post so I'm not certain how that will play out for her unless you can convince the local PS to take her based on what you can cobble together transcript wise - in Michigan it is VERY rare for a public school to accept a homeschooled high schooler's credits even from accredited online courses, DE, or any other non parent corroborated source and parent implemented coursework is even more rarely accepted.

 

College applications or most tier 1 uni's and the upper tier 2 schools usually have deadlines of Jan. 1st or before and many of these schools are long before then for maximum merit aid consideration. You need to check Temple's guidelines and deadlines. For our middle boy, every single school in consideration has to have everything including test scores by Nov. or Dec. 1st plus estimated grades for that semester. Scholarship competitions at these schools for additional merit aid are the first and second week of Dec. or second/third week of Jan.

 

You mentioned she has older sibs that are already launched in life. Are any of them in a position to help her with some college tuition money for the CC and books? Does she have a job now?

[creekland]

Temple looks to be the nation's 6th most expensive public school, and selective at that.

 

Ah yes, Pennsylvania and our public school cost.   :glare:

 

It doesn't get any better with our state med schools and cost.   :cursing:

 

It's often better for our students to go to private schools if they are either good enough for sig merit aid or needy enough and apply to/get in good "meets needs" schools.

 

To the OP - they really ought to visit Temple.  Many (of our) students don't like it due to the area in Philly.  It's not quite on par with Drexel's urban-ness, but...  Obviously many DO like it too, but until they know which category they are in...  I'd highly suggest a visit.  Academically it's a good school.  I'm only talking fit.

[Teachin'Mine]

Whose idea is it to get the four year education instead of two?   If she's itching to work she might be better served by getting a two year degree and then completing the certification.  The salary is on the lower side, so avoiding high debt should definitely be a goal IMO.  Have you looked at the tuition costs for the other colleges which offer the certification?  Even thought they are out of state, their OOS tuition should be low.  Most of them probably don't even require standardized test scores.  Starting with her local CC is probably a great idea, especially considering her need to do remedial work in math.  I'm not saying that a four year education is the wrong approach, but 60 credits (usually what's needed for an associates) is all that is required to take the certification classes.

 

I'm not familiar with her program at all, but I'm guessing that if training centers have been reduced in numbers that available jobs have also been reduced, maybe due to budget cuts.  It sounds like she won't be 21 for about three years and that may be about how long it will take for her to catch up and get a two year degree.  If she can excel at CC, she may find that continuing for a BA can be affordable and can choose that route and then certify.  Certainly her options for work will increase with the higher degree.  As for NCAA, I have no information on that, but there are some here who are very knowledgeable.  If she went to CC, I doubt she'd need anything extra to simply join a track team if that's available.  

 

Sounds like there's more to build her transcript with so that's good.  You mention the SAT often, but I really would personally recommend the ACT practice test for an idea of where she's at.  The SAT is more problem solving ish and the ACT is more achievement based.  Even though the science is mostly reading comprehension and graph reading, it may give you an idea of how well she's studied the different sciences.  The ACT may also give you a better idea of where she's at in math as the problems are more straight forward.

[SarahW]

Well, it was her idea to go to the "dream" school which has the program as a four-year degree. Temple is the only other four-year school which offers the program. The rest of them now are CC's which offer it as a special program on the side. I'm not sure why so many schools dropped the program. Budget cuts is a real possibility, but maybe it was just the hoops of being federally certified?

 

But with the budget cuts, being professionally competitive is important. The job is obviously attractive to ex-military, and there's quite a number of those people in this country at the moment. So I think a four-year degree is probably pretty necessary these days to get in. She could try to make it work with the AAS from the CC, yes, but I think it's worthwhile to try to set the goal higher. It's a valid back-up plan though.

 

I'm leaning towards the SAT because of the info I'm getting that she's good in LA, and my own suspicion that she has a decent IQ (some of the siblings may be "gifted" but there's never been any testing). She's not home for another few weeks, and she only has access to a phone on weekends, so while it makes sense to test her and crunch the numbers, the lack of time means I'm probably going to need to start making plans based on my gut.

 

 

I think the mom will fill out the FAFSA. She's done it the last few years for older siblings. I'll make sure to give them the task of double-checking that it gets filed on time.

[SarahW]

Ah yes, Pennsylvania and our public school cost.   :glare:

 

It doesn't get any better with our state med schools and cost.   :cursing:

 

It's often better for our students to go to private schools if they are either good enough for sig merit aid or needy enough and apply to/get in good "meets needs" schools.

 

To the OP - they really ought to visit Temple.  Many (of our) students don't like it due to the area in Philly.  It's not quite on par with Drexel's urban-ness, but...  Obviously many DO like it too, but until they know which category they are in...  I'd highly suggest a visit.  Academically it's a good school.  I'm only talking fit.

 

 

Yeah, she probably doesn't want an urban school. That's probably why she pushed so hard for "dream" school on the other side of the country. There's just...a lack of other options. She could leave on the weekends to stay with family or for program training (which are obviously not in Philly). But if she absolutely despises it, despite the possibility of leaving on the weekends, then yeah, it would be tough to go there. 

[FaithManor]

Do you mean the coming year, or an additional year after this one?

 

I talked to the mom today it can be arranged that she does CC this year as DE.

 

 

 

Tsuga - I don't dislike CC, though the local CC is really not good, academically speaking. But most of the possible schools offer little financial aid to transfers. I'm pretty sure I'm reading their sites right, because there's chatter on college confidential saying the same. It's a tough position to be in.

 

There is a Plan C option I'm outlining for her that involves getting an AAS at the CC and then transferring that to either of two local U's which have special articulation agreements just for students in that major. If she's not willing to put in the hard work for the next few months, that's what will end up happening. It's not the end of the world, no, but it is tougher and aid for the last two years at Uni is iffy.

DE does not have to be transfered as credit. She can simply use DE in order to "graduate" from homeschooling, i.e.produce a more competitive transcript. She does not have to accept credit at Temple and should have the option of going in as a traditional freshman. And if my assumptions that she is very behind in math and science are correct, she may be placed in 90 level coursework anyway which is high school level and non transferable but would get her prepped for 100 level work.

[Teachin'Mine]

Good point about ex-military being able to fill these jobs and her needing to be competitive.  As far as her dream school, it's actually from an admissions point of view a good safety school.  It's got a much higher percent for acceptance than Temple does and it would put her in the right environment for pursuing interests related to her field.  IMO Temple would be a poor fit, but a visit to both would help determine that.  

 

Is she 18 and mature enough to move on her own now?  I don't know the residency rules for the western state, but maybe she could move there and work in a job related to what she wants to do and maybe take some classes at a CC there.  If that could establish residency for her, then she could apply to her dream university as a transfer student and complete her BA and certification at in-state rates.  Can they afford, including loans and aid, a cost of attendance of about 20K per year?  They should run the university's net price calculator to see what their actual costs might be.  

[SarahW]

Quick question! Dad lives in another state. Could she get in-state tuition and aid there? Investigating more options...

[SarahW]

Good point about ex-military being able to fill these jobs and her needing to be competitive.  As far as her dream school, it's actually from an admissions point of view a good safety school.  It's got a much higher percent for acceptance than Temple does and it would put her in the right environment for pursuing interests related to her field.  IMO Temple would be a poor fit, but a visit to both would help determine that.  

 

Is she 18 and mature enough to move on her own now?  I don't know the residency rules for the western state, but maybe she could move there and work in a job related to what she wants to do and maybe take some classes at a CC there.  If that could establish residency for her, then she could apply to her dream university as a transfer student and complete her BA and certification at in-state rates.  Can they afford, including loans and aid, a cost of attendance of about 20K per year?  They should run the university's net price calculator to see what their actual costs might be.  

 

 

Yeah, I don't know why the remaining program in the NE is at Temple. What a weird place for it to be. Dream school is clearly lovely, but without aid....

 

There was talk of moving. The student can't move on her own, she doesn't have a DL yet, actually (at this point she's just waiting for her 18th b-day). The mother is actually planning to retire during this school year. She has a decent city pension and home equity, but I recall that many states have tightened residency, but I'd need to check for specifics. 20k, which is about what I'm getting from the calculator and the numbers on collegedata, is over half of yearly income, so that seems rather impossible.

[Teachin'Mine]

If the income on the FAFSA will be about 40K, then she should qualify for a Pell Grant which could be as much as $5775, and can be determined by her mother running an estimate.  https://fafsa.ed.gov/FAFSA/app/f4cForm?execution=e2s1    She'll also be able to borrow $5500.  Then she can contribute what she makes during the summer and even during this year, and then she can work on campus.  Maybe her father can make some contribution.

 

If she lives with her father, then his income will determine FAFSA's outcome.  That may or may not be helpful.

 

If the student won't be returning home for another few weeks, then enrollment at the CC for the fall semester is not likely.