NCAA Help

[Jlq4]

I am hoping someone can help me with a few questions. Does anyone know if the NCAA requires homeschoolers to adhere to the Common Core Standards. We live in OH and I have contacted CHEO to find out if we as homeschoolers have to comply to the CC standards (I don't think we do); however, I'm not sure if the NCAA will require us to since the state of OH follows the CC. I hope that makes sense.  Also, my son has been enrolled in the Great Books Academy (Angelicum Academy) for his Freshman and Sophmore Years of high school. His advisor said that he is in contact with some people he knows at the NCAA Compliance department to find out if they will recognize the GBA schooling as a homeschool entity or a non-traditional type of schooling.  If it is the later, that could cause problems. Has anyone used the Great Books Academy and dealt with the NCAA? I hope so, because this is causing me a lot of stress. :confused: If anyone could help me, I would appreciate it.

 

Thanks,

Joy

[TN Mama]

I can only speak to the common core part of your question, but, no, that should not make a difference in dealing with the NCAA.

[clementine]

You don't have to follow Common Core - you just have to have the amount of Core Course Worksheets filled out in each subject area & accepted by the NCAA. We didn't use Great Books so I don't have any experience with that curriculum. I'd be happy to help if you have more questions :)

[Jlq4]

Thank you both for your reply.

 

Joy

[snowbeltmom]

I am hoping someone can help me with a few questions. Does anyone know if the NCAA requires homeschoolers to adhere to the Common Core Standards. We live in OH and I have contacted CHEO to find out if we as homeschoolers have to comply to the CC standards (I don't think we do); however, I'm not sure if the NCAA will require us to since the state of OH follows the CC. I hope that makes sense.  Also, my son has been enrolled in the Great Books Academy (Angelicum Academy) for his Freshman and Sophmore Years of high school. His advisor said that he is in contact with some people he knows at the NCAA Compliance department to find out if they will recognize the GBA schooling as a homeschool entity or a non-traditional type of schooling.  If it is the later, that could cause problems. Has anyone used the Great Books Academy and dealt with the NCAA? I hope so, because this is causing me a lot of stress. :confused: If anyone could help me, I would appreciate it.

 

Thanks,

Joy

Is the Great Books Academy recognized as a school by the state of Ohio, or does the state of Ohio consider you a homeschooler?  If the state considers you a homeschooler, and you are responsible for the official transcript, I would not even mention the Great Books Academy in the paperwork you submit to the NCAA.  

 

If you are considered a homeschooler by the state of Ohio, you will have to send in your excusal letter for your son's 4 years of high school to prove to the NCAA that you were homeschooling legally in the state of Ohio.

 

You do not have to follow the Common Core Standards.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Out of curiosity, does GBA provide you with a transcript?  When your student takes the ACT or SAT, do they use the homeschool code or a code for GBA?

 

I encourage you to contact the homeschool department of the NCAA personally.  You need to get answers directly from them.  You are your student-athlete's best advocate.

 

Good luck!

[Jlq4]

Out of curiosity, does GBA provide you with a transcript?  When your student takes the ACT or SAT, do they use the homeschool code or a code for GBA?

 

I encourage you to contact the homeschool department of the NCAA personally.  You need to get answers directly from them.  You are your student-athlete's best advocate.

 

Good luck!

The GBA can provide me with a transcript. No, there is no ACT/SAT code for GBA, we will be using the homeschool code. I am guessing as to why you asked that question. Is that b/c they could consider the GBA a non-traditional school and not accept it. I was going to list myself as the primary teacher with GBA moderators and them grading his work, but I would assign the final grade.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Joy

[Jlq4]

Is the Great Books Academy recognized as a school by the state of Ohio, or does the state of Ohio consider you a homeschooler?  If the state considers you a homeschooler, and you are responsible for the official transcript, I would not even mention the Great Books Academy in the paperwork you submit to the NCAA.  

 

If you are considered a homeschooler by the state of Ohio, you will have to send in your excusal letter for your son's 4 years of high school to prove to the NCAA that you were homeschooling legally in the state of Ohio.

 

You do not have to follow the Common Core Standards.

 

I don't think they are recognized as a school by the state of Ohio, we are considered a homeschooler. I do have all our excusal letters. So should I even mention what he does with GBA (2 hrs/week of discussion over the readings, oral exams, and graded papers)? I was going to list myself as the primary teacher, b/c I feel I have the right to override his grade. He has gotten all A's but I have told my son that if I see there is a lack of participation on his part and I don't feel he deserves an A, I will change it. They do provide transcripts if I ask for one. I would just like to have one to prove he was held accountable by the academy.

 

Thanks,

Joy

[snowbeltmom]

I don't think they are recognized as a school by the state of Ohio, we are considered a homeschooler. I do have all our excusal letters. So should I even mention what he does with GBA (2 hrs/week of discussion over the readings, oral exams, and graded papers)? I was going to list myself as the primary teacher, b/c I feel I have the right to override his grade. He has gotten all A's but I have told my son that if I see there is a lack of participation on his part and I don't feel he deserves an A, I will change it. They do provide transcripts if I ask for one. I would just like to have one to prove he was held accountable by the academy.

 

Thanks,

Joy

 

The NCAA really does not care about educational outcomes and will not care whether your son was held accountable by the GBA.

 

My kids take some online classes through various homeschool providers.  Like the GBA, these homeschool providers are not accredited.  Since I am the one assigning the official grade, I am considering myself the teacher of record and am not even going to list the other entities.  

 

While the transcript I create for the college admissions folks will have specific course titles, such as "Tolkien studies", "Rhetoric", "Crafting the Essay", etc., the transcript I am creating for the NCAA will be very generic and only list the required core courses. The NCAA transcript will have course titles such as English I, English II, etc. 

 

[snowbeltmom]

The GBA can provide me with a transcript. No, there is no ACT/SAT code for GBA, we will be using the homeschool code. I am guessing as to why you asked that question. Is that b/c they could consider the GBA a non-traditional school and not accept it. I was going to list myself as the primary teacher with GBA moderators and them grading his work, but I would assign the final grade.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Joy

 

The NCAA will only accept classes that are taught by providers that are listed in their database.  If you list GBA as the academic provider, the class will not be approved. 

 

Imo, you should make it easy on yourself and the NCAA folks who simply want to check off the right boxes - don't list the GBA at all. 

 

Disclaimer: my oldest son is playing Div III, so I didn't have to bother with the NCAA.  However, during one of my conversations with the folks at the NCAA when my oldest was still a sophomore, it was recommended that I not list unofficial providers if I was the one in charge of assigning the final grade.  I am definitely using this approach with my middle son.

[Haiku]

We are looking at NCAA eligibility for my son, who is a hockey player. (Disclaimer: I LOATHE the NCAA.) Their requirements are such that online classes and umbrella schools generally don't qualify as the NCAA requires student contact hours that online providers/umbrella schools generally can't meet. There are a few online charters that qualify, but they seem to be weeding those schools out. All the advice that I have seen from seasoned homeschoolers is never to mention any outside classes/providers and list yourself as the teacher of record for everything.

 

I hate the NCAA, and their attempts to make it harder for homeschoolers have just resulted in homeschoolers finding new ways around the unrealistic rules.

[justkeepswimming]

All the advice that I have seen from seasoned homeschoolers is never to mention any outside classes/providers and list yourself as the teacher of record for everything.

But one of the specific questions they ask is "Did you take any online courses?" And then they ask for a list of which classes and the school information. :/

 

This is where I'm struggling atm. DD only has one course I'm concerned with - and I have listed myself as her instructor for that course and I gave her additional assignments through out the year, so I feel secure with listing myself as the teacher.... But when they ask directly if she has EVER taken an online course... I have to say yes, yes? :/

[Haiku]

But one of the specific questions they ask is "Did you take any online courses?" And then they ask for a list of which classes and the school information. :/

 

They want this information so they can see whether the course was provided by one of their approved sources. If it's not, then they won't give you the credit for it. It's up to you whether you think you have to mention that your child took outside classes, but they will not approve content unless one of their approved sources provided it. They seriously expect every person who teaches your child anything besides of you, in the confines of your home, to become certified by them before they will count that provider's classes.

 

ETA: You can check here to see whether your provider has certified courses. If they are not listed, then you don't get to count them unless you are prepared to submit a lot of paperwork and documentation and your provider is, too, and then the NCAA still has the final say.

[justkeepswimming]

Yeah, this class isn't listed. Since I'm only using it as a supplement to dd's class on her transcript, I don't feel as obligated to claim it. But, man, they make this more morally murky than it needs to be. :( For a program that requires something like a 19 on the ACT, they sure are finicky about the AP-level classes my child has taken. -_-

 

PAHomeschoolers is listed, aren't they? Or is that just for the people who go through their diploma program?

[snowbeltmom]

Yeah, this class isn't listed. Since I'm only using it as a supplement to dd's class on her transcript, I don't feel as obligated to claim it. But, man, they make this more morally murky than it needs to be. :( For a program that requires something like a 19 on the ACT, they sure are finicky about the AP-level classes my child has taken. -_-

 

PAHomeschoolers is listed, aren't they? Or is that just for the people who go through their diploma program?

 

I lost all respect for this organization when they told me that they would not accept the online AP Chemistry class my son had taken because the online provider was not approved by the all-mighty NCAA.  When I explained that I could send in my son's Chemistry SAT II score of 800, his AP Chemistry score of 5, or his National Chemistry Olympiad results that he had obtained after taking this rigorous online class, I was told that the NCAA is not interested in the "educational outcome" that they only care whether or not the online class is listed in the NCAA database.  Since the class was not in their database, they would not grant credit for the class.  :banghead: :ack2: :angry:

 

In addition to not caring about the "educational outcome", the NCAA has absolutely no qualms about disqualifying an online class that was actually approved by the NCAA when the student took the class.  I don't understand how this organization gets away with this practice, but in my mind this is morally reprehensible.

 

PA Homeschoolers were listed in their database at one time, but who is to say that they will still be listed in the database at the time our kids go through the clearinghouse in senior year? 

 

I am an ethical person, but I am not jeopardizing my son's ability to play his sport in college by listing any of the online providers we are using at home.  I think this organization is morally bankrupt, and I have no twinges of conscience at all by listing myself as the primary teacher on every single class. 

 

[MysteryJen]

Yes to everything in snowbeltmom's post. The NCAA has been sued over denying courses that were approved at the time of taking the course. The girl won her lawsuit, but how many people just accept it?

 

My dd1 did not take any online courses, in part, due to this. I am the teacher of record for all courses except those taken at the cc.

[justkeepswimming]

 

I am an ethical person, but I am not jeopardizing my son's ability to play his sport in college by listing any of the online providers we are using at home. I think this organization is morally bankrupt, and I have no twinges of conscience at all by listing myself as the primary teacher on every single class.

 

This is what I'm concerned about - jeopardizing dd's chances. :willy_nilly: When we signed up for the online class, NCAA was nowhere on her radar, so I didn't think twice about it. Midway through the first 9 weeks, I realized that she may want to participate in this sport in college, and started reading about the NCAA stuff. That's when I started making my own assignments to coordinate with her AP class, so that I had my own syllabus and lesson plans in case they were needed for the NCAA. So hopefully that'll be good enough. ðŸ˜

[snowbeltmom]

But one of the specific questions they ask is "Did you take any online courses?" And then they ask for a list of which classes and the school information. :/

 

This is where I'm struggling atm. DD only has one course I'm concerned with - and I have listed myself as her instructor for that course and I gave her additional assignments through out the year, so I feel secure with listing myself as the teacher.... But when they ask directly if she has EVER taken an online course... I have to say yes, yes? :/

 

I don't think the NCAA really understands homeschooling and has lumped us in with the online public school cohorts. 

 

I am answering the bolded question with a "No" since my kids have never taken an accredited online class.  I view the online classes that they take as a supplement since I am the one that answers any questions that they may have throughout the course and I am the one that assigns the grade that is listed on the transcript.

 

[Haiku]

I don't understand how this organization gets away with this practice, but in my mind this is morally reprehensible.

 

They can get away with it because they hold a monopoly on college athletics and they are accountable to no one. Their decisions are final.

[justkeepswimming]

I don't think the NCAA really understands homeschooling and has lumped us in with the online public school cohorts. 

 

I am answering the bolded question with a "No" since my kids have never taken an accredited online class.  I view the online classes that they take as a supplement since I am the one that answers any questions that they may have throughout the course and I am the one that assigns the grade that is listed on the transcript.

 

 

I feel the same way - and I agree. Even their question about "curriculum" was weird... do we use Alpha Omega, or Bob Jones, or Apologia and a couple other very random choices. It was bizarre.

 

I view the class as a supplement as well and with that viewpoint, dd hasn't taken any classes that are similar to that of an online public school where the teacher/school has control of the grade, assignments, and official transcript.

 

OK, I feel on much more solid ground now.

 

Thank you, OP, for starting this thread!! :) I can finalize the information now without fretting! :)

[Jlq4]

I don't think the NCAA really understands homeschooling and has lumped us in with the online public school cohorts. 

 

I am answering the bolded question with a "No" since my kids have never taken an accredited online class.  I view the online classes that they take as a supplement since I am the one that answers any questions that they may have throughout the course and I am the one that assigns the grade that is listed on the transcript.

 

 

Thank you all so much for your advice. My son is a hockey player too and the "online" question and the "curriculum use questions" through me for a loop too. I wasn't sure how to answer the "online" question, which became an ethical question for me. I want to be up front with what he does, but I don't want to jeopardize anything for him.  I guess I didn't realize the difference between NCAA accredited online courses and the non-accredited courses.  I wish they would be clear with their questions and upfront with what they accept and don't; I feel like I'm being trapped by trick questions.

 

One more question: On the worksheet description, do I even mention it was an online class and that he reported to mentors on a weekly basis? I'm thinking I will just report that on his actual college transcripts/course descriptions.

 

I am so glad I posted my questions, and got wise advice.  You are all great!

 

Thanks!

[snowbeltmom]

Thank you all so much for your advice. My son is a hockey player too and the "online" question and the "curriculum use questions" through me for a loop too. I wasn't sure how to answer the "online" question, which became an ethical question for me. I want to be up front with what he does, but I don't want to jeopardize anything for him.  I guess I didn't realize the difference between NCAA accredited online courses and the non-accredited courses.  I wish they would be clear with their questions and upfront with what they accept and don't; I feel like I'm being trapped by trick questions.

 

One more question: On the worksheet description, do I even mention it was an online class and that he reported to mentors on a weekly basis? I'm thinking I will just report that on his actual college transcripts/course descriptions.

 

I am so glad I posted my questions, and got wise advice.  You are all great!

 

Thanks!

 

I would not mention the online class or the weekly checking in with a mentor on any of the documents you submit to the NCAA. 

 

[Mom25girls]

Not to hijack the thread but I"m just getting more and more confused...Do you feel like it is "safer" to use courses which have been previous accredited by the NCAA 

(perhaps from a place like Laurel Springs or K12 International Academy) or to develop programs independently? The more I explore this issue, the MORE confused I'm getting. 

[clementine]

The NCAA wasn't even on our radar until half-way through our dd's high school years.  I had no idea we had to register her with the clearinghouse or get classes approved.  BUT, I knew we were providing her a solid education, so I couldn't imagine her courses not being accepted.  I wouldn't try to only use previously accepted curriculum.

 

I would say that there is a better chance of classes being declined if they are K12 or online....maybe I'm wrong.  

 

But, if you have your textbook or materials, your syllabus, your calendar, your grading criteria, a good course description, you are the teacher, and the right amount of  material is covered, that class should be accepted.  Parents can create their own class - you just have to make sure that enough work was done in the class to master the material.  

 

 

[Jlq4]

I called the NCAA the other day and spoke with Bret. I was hoping to get some answers regarding the curriculum we have used over the years (MathUSee, Chalkdust Math, Notgrass History, Our Latin Heritage, Wheelock Latin, etc). He would not say whether they would accept a particular curriculum. He said I would have to send in the course worksheets and they would be reviewed only if there was an institutional inquiry for my son. This makes me very anxious, what if there isn't an inquiry until later this year or next, then it would be too late to rectify anything. Does anyone have any suggestions? Also, do I have to mail in all the course worksheets at once or can I just do some?  (Of course it probably doesn't matter, if they're not going to review them until an inquiry is made.) Has this always been the case or have they reviewed in the past without an inquiry. I felt like I was getting the run around. I'm not sure.

 

Thanks,

Joy

[justkeepswimming]

In our recent experience...

 

No - they won't give direct answers regarding specific curriculum. Unless you're registered fully with an "approved homeschooling" umbrella or online school, they evaluate on a case-by-case basis.

 

You will send in ALL the paperwork at one time (if you're registering before senior year, you'll send in all the paperwork for the courses he's done so far). They will mark your son's account that they have received said items - but will not "approve" or "dis-approve" of said items until a university has requested your son's file.

 

It IS nerve-wracking! Without question. IF they find a flaw in your system - you do have* some* time to rectify the situation, but not a lot of time.

 

DD didn't register with the NCAA until the fall of her senior year. I spent all summer beforehand prepping her NCAA paperwork, and turned it in at the beginning of the school year. I was SO relieved when that first university made the first request in early fall so that we could see the paperwork had been approved - an enormous load off my shoulders!!

 

In the end, I think I sent in a 65-page pdf file with course descriptions, school reports, blah blah blah - all the stuff they wanted.

 

SO happy to be on the other side of it all now. :) Best of luck to you!!

 

I called the NCAA the other day and spoke with Bret. I was hoping to get some answers regarding the curriculum we have used over the years (MathUSee, Chalkdust Math, Notgrass History, Our Latin Heritage, Wheelock Latin, etc). He would not say whether they would accept a particular curriculum. He said I would have to send in the course worksheets and they would be reviewed only if there was an institutional inquiry for my son. This makes me very anxious, what if there isn't an inquiry until later this year or next, then it would be too late to rectify anything. Does anyone have any suggestions? Also, do I have to mail in all the course worksheets at once or can I just do some?  (Of course it probably doesn't matter, if they're not going to review them until an inquiry is made.) Has this always been the case or have they reviewed in the past without an inquiry. I felt like I was getting the run around. I'm not sure.

 

Thanks,

Joy

 

[Sunshine State Sue]

Does anyone have any suggestions?

You can make sure that all your curriculum is high school level and college preparatory without question.  Not only do you want the NCAA to approve the material, but you want your ds to be well prepared for college level studies, right?

 

Also, do I have to mail in all the course worksheets at once or can I just do some?

I mailed the in all at once, but ds had no ccw for after 10th grade due to dual enrollment.  It has always been the case that they only review the student's information after an inquiry has been made.  Otherwise, they would be wasting their time reviewing information when no coach is interested in the student.

 

PM me with your email address if you would like my core course worksheets. 

 

ETA:  I was told by hs'ers before me that the NCAA is not out to prevent hs'ers who have been schooled in a conscientious manner from playing college sports.  I hope that thought comforts you. 

:grouphug:

 

 

Edited November 29, 2015 by Sue in St Pete

[Lolly]

But one of the specific questions they ask is "Did you take any online courses?" And then they ask for a list of which classes and the school information. :/

 

This is where I'm struggling atm. DD only has one course I'm concerned with - and I have listed myself as her instructor for that course and I gave her additional assignments through out the year, so I feel secure with listing myself as the teacher.... But when they ask directly if she has EVER taken an online course... I have to say yes, yes? :/

 

 

No. And, No again. Maybe even a third time, NO!

 

Let go of your morals. You are not dealing with an agency that cares one whit about them; nor do they necessarily have them either. I would go so far as to suggest that you make sure to use names of programs that are most likely to be accepted whether you have used them or not. I am going with the spirit of the law, not the word. The spirit is to make sure the children are educated in a manner which will lead to success in college. So, I educated them for that goal. Then, I jumped through the hoops I had to. (I did make selections for courses with the goal of meeting NCAA standards.)

Edited November 29, 2015 by Lolly

[clementine]

I was very thorough in filling out the CCWs for the NCAA.  I was ALWAYS the teacher except in the case of dual credit classes taken at the college.  

 

If the teacher of a high school class had a degree in the field of study, I put that teacher in the tutor blank along with his/her credentials.  I listed every topic/subtopic studied and had a very detailed description of the course.  Include supplemental materials used too.  Make it very hard for them to deny the class.  

 

Everything I submitted was accepted without issue.  I mailed in paper copies of everything together and mailed it with tracking number in a large manila envelope.  

[Haiku]

ETA:  I was told by hs'ers before me that the NCAA is not out to prevent hs'ers who have been schooled in a conscientious manner from playing college sports.  I hope that thought comforts you. 

 

I don't think that the NCAA is actively trying to prevent homeschoolers. I do think that they don't really understand homeschooling and are not concerned with trying to. Like any other large institution, their job is to enforce conformity.

[Jennifer from Delaware]

 

I use the Abeka book tradition (non video) program. I just buy the books and teach my son myself. Will the NCAA approve all four years of h.s. or should I enroll in Abeka Academy accredited and give the NCAA the transcript from the academy

[Haiku]

I use the Abeka book tradition (non video) program. I just buy the books and teach my son myself. Will the NCAA approve all four years of h.s. or should I enroll in Abeka Academy accredited and give the NCAA the transcript from the academy

 

Just because Abeka Academy is accredited does not mean the NCAA will accept courses from them. In fact, Abeka does not show up in the NCAA's database of approved courses. Very few online programs are accepted by the NCAA. Also, the NCAA does not approve "all four years of high school." They are looking to make sure that you have sixteen core courses. They don't care about anything other than those courses.

 

You can read the NCAA's homeschool page to find out more. You can also call them. They have a dedicated homeschool department.