El... Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 That's horrible. I think a certain kind of personality tends to lean toward pushing other people, using whatever differences are available as pressure points. I don't think this girl is turning out to be a very nice person, regardless of whether she truly believes what she said. That was deeply lacking in empathy. I think I would talk to her parents, just in case she has a major misunderstanding going on, but in any case that kiddo would no longer be on the friends list. Friends don't treat each other that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhanaBee Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 That's horrible. I think a certain kind of personality tends to lean toward pushing other people, using whatever differences are available as pressure points. I don't think this girl is turning out to be a very nice person, regardless of whether she truly believes what she said. That was deeply lacking in empathy. I think I would talk to her parents, just in case she has a major misunderstanding going on, but in any case that kiddo would no longer be on the friends list. Friends don't treat each other that way. Yes, it's a horrible thing to say. But I'm not convinced this little girl really understands what she was saying. My best friend, growing up, went to a very very strict church and she had beliefs along this line. At one point she was really concerned for my salvation because I had been baptized "the wrong way". She wasn't being hateful, just repeating what she had been told to believe. Fortunately I was confident enough in my faith to brush it off. Being told that you need to die before you reach the age of accountability is something else....but still probably not said out of hate -- just extremely misguided concern. And why the age of 20? Where does that magical age come from? I was confirmed in my church, and rebaptized at my request, at the age of 13. My children all had a Bat Mitzvah at age 13 and then confirmation in 10th grade [Reform Judiasm]. But this is the first time I've heard of 20 being the magic number. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor_dad Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I have explained to her that this friend loves her and is concerned about her and is only saying/believing these things because that's what she's been taught. My daughter's greatest fear is that she'll be rejected by her friends if she doesn't believe what they believe. I think the sleepover was the beginning of her fear coming true. After her friend said that, my dd replied, "It doesn't matter what we believe- we'll always be friends, right?" This girl replied, "I can't make any promises. I don't think God wants me to be friends with people who don't believe in him." She later told me, "I love her no matter what she believes - why can't she love me no matter what I believe?" I'm willing to be charitable about the title comment... it is terrible but *might* be well intentioned. On the other hand, the bolded comment above, "I can't make any promises. I don't think God wants me to be friends with people who don't believe in him.", sounds like classic passive aggressive mean girl bullying. This is a thing among tweens and teens... religion is just being used as another lever of social control. Sadly, I don't have any advice for how to deal with it... 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm so, so sorry. When we were young another friend said to my best friend, "If you're not baptized you won't be allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven." Really bothered my poor friend. She's lived many decades and still remembers that comment with sadness. Comfort your daughter by normalizing (sounds weird, I know) the encounter. . . by explaining that others have experienced the exact same thing she has. A good friend said to me about a year ago, "I so want to see you in heaven." And I responded casually, "Oh, I'm sure we will." And she astounded me by saying, "No, my church believes that if you're not in our (particular) faith you won't be going to heaven." ??? I'll leave it at that. And please don't misunderstand when I say "normalize." It's just a fancy way of saying: explain to your daughter that "this sort of thing can happen when others aren't being sensitive." Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 As a believer, I find this abhorrant and think the parent's teachings are near child abuse. God doesn't want people to come to him out of fear, if he wanted to control them so closely he wouldn't have given people free will in the first place. Faith is supposed to be freely chosen, no coerced or it isn't true faith. That child can't see the difference doesn't' shock me, but that her parents can't, that so many adults can't, that is crazy. I do believe in God, but I do NOT believe he is sending happy little girls there, or any of the wonderful adult atheists I know either. So upsetting. Of course, I'm Catholic, so I'm sure this girl and her parents think I'm going to hell too. But you don't know that the parents are teaching her this because we have no evidence. This could be the little girl's own twisted misunderstanding! I agree with you that faith has to be fully and freely chosen, and those in relationship with the Lord know it isn't about compulsion or fear at all. The little girl may have never stated anything of the kind in their presence. Facts are necessary to make judgments. [it is possible I missed a post in this long thread where the OP detailed the conversation with the girl's parents in which they stated they do indeed teach this, in which case I retract this post.] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm willing to be charitable about the title comment... it is terrible but *might* be well intentioned. On the other hand, the bolded comment above, "I can't make any promises. I don't think God wants me to be friends with people who don't believe in him.", sounds like classic passive aggressive mean girl bullying. This is a thing among tweens and teens... religion is just being used as another lever of social control. Sadly, I don't have any advice for how to deal with it... I agree with this completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 And why the age of 20? Where does that magical age come from? I think the whole age of accountability thing is wrong (so this is an outsider perspective), but in a discussion online I saw Numbers 14:29 referenced wrt age 20 being the age in question. That's where, after the Israelites were led out of Egypt to the Promised Land and spied out the land, they were scared of the might of the the people of the land and didn't want to attack - didn't trust the Lord to give them the victory He promised. And so the Lord declared that they would wander in the wilderness until all the men aged 20 and older died - aka until all the men of military age (who refused to fight) died (excepting Joshua and Caleb, who trusted the Lord). Anyway, for reasons having to do with not being held liable for things you were too young to have had a hand in, and seeing a parallel between entering the Promised Land and salvation, some people have applied the age 20 thing to the age of accountability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Yeah, the 20 thing seems pretty weird. In the past a lot of people were married and had kids by that age, and had been living as adults for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Have you talked with the girl's parents yet? I think it is important to know where they stand on this issue so you will know whether or not your dd can (or should) remain friends with the girl. Honestly, I am concerned that the family may be more than a little fanatical in their beliefs. The dd's comment was incredibly extreme. I actually feel sorry for the friend if she believes what she said to your dd. What an awful thing it is that someone taught her to believe such nonsense. Your poor dd must feel so sad and betrayed. :( I would be so angry if anyone ever said something like that to my child. I wouldn't blame it on religion, though; I would blame it on CRAZY, and I mean the parents, not the girl. She is only parroting something someone taught her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 True, she may have misunderstood. at that age I thought you got pregnant from kissing a boy while wearing a bathing suit. NO IDEA where I got that idea, but I was positive that was what caused it. So maybe she got things confused too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Have you talked with the girl's parents yet? I think it is important to know where they stand on this issue so you will know whether or not your dd can (or should) remain friends with the girl. Honestly, I am concerned that the family may be more than a little fanatical in their beliefs. The dd's comment was incredibly extreme. I actually feel sorry for the friend if she believes what she said to your dd. What an awful thing it is that someone taught her to believe such nonsense. Your poor dd must feel so sad and betrayed. :( I would be so angry if anyone ever said something like that to my child. I wouldn't blame it on religion, though; I would blame it on CRAZY, and I mean the parents, not the girl. She is only parroting something someone taught her. I agree that I feel sorry for the girl who believes this. It must be awful to think that way. I wouldn't assume she is parroting her parents verbatim though. It might be a crazy game of telephone. Kids mix things up sometimes. It's possible that she is parroting the parents but we just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 That is seriously messed up. In my opinion, it doesn't matter what the girl's intentions were, whether or not she's a sweet person the rest of the time, whether or not she misunderstood something she heard in church... You need to protect your dd from this kind of thinking and the harm it can do. When I was a young teen, my best friend and her family believed stuff like that, very hardcore fire and brimstone types. I still remember the sleepover where both of her parents sat down and told me I was going to hell to suffer eternal torture, and there was nothing I could do about it, ever, because I knew about Jesus and had decided not to be Christian for a while. It took me a long, long time to get past the fear that comes from hearing that kind of thing as a child. It really messed me up for a long time. Please, kick these nuts out of your lives and protect your daughter. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 We are a Christian family, and my children have friends that are not of our faith. I would be horrified if my child said this to their friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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