"I hope you die before you're 20!"

[creekmom]

My daughter(10) came home early from a sleepover - heartbroken and sobbing after her best friend said those cruel words to her. Why would this sweet little girl say this? Because we are no longer "believers". I'm assuming someone in her church or home told her that 20 was the magic number of accountability (which by the way, I've never read anything in the Bible that suggests that all children go to heaven before a certain age). That is just one more thing we add to our beliefs that makes us feel better about worshipping a god who sends people to eternal torment for believing the wrong story (or no story at all). To think that I used to believe this too makes me sick to my stomach now.

My daughter has a heart of gold that will never be the same after being told by the little girl she loves the most that she wants her to die in the next 10 years. Had to vent somewhere .... :(

 

Edited to add that this remark was not made in anger. This girl loves my daughter but believes she's going to hell. The hope that she dies is from her heart. To her, an early death is the only solution to this problem.

[Miss Peregrine]

That's horrible. I'm sorry. 😢

[Spryte]

:(

 

How painful for your DD, to hear that from a close friend! We have faced that from kids on the playground (well, similar statements), but never a dear friend. It's easier to stand firm and strong when it's a relative stranger.

 

I am so sorry.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well I hope she becomes less ridiculous before she is 20.

 

 

[Tanaqui]

*hugs*

[MedicMom]

I'm sure the little girl has heard things from her parents about this, but I would still be on the phone speaking to them.

 

That's just not acceptable.

Then we'd find some new friends.

[Valley Girl]

I'm sure the little girl has heard things from her parents about this, but I would still be on the phone speaking to them.

 

That's just not acceptable.

Then we'd find some new friends.

 

This exactly.

 

I don't care what those people believe. There is never any acceptable excuse for saying something so cruel. I'm sorry your poor baby (1) had something like that said to her and (2) had it said by someone who supposedly cared for her. Hugs to BOTH of you.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would not even assume the parents would be happy to hear she said that.  I'd want to know.  I'm an atheist, but I would be very mad at my kid if he said something nasty to make fun of someone's religion.

 

 

[MedicMom]

I would not even assume the parents would be happy to hear she said that. I'd want to know. I'm an atheist, but I would be very mad at my kid if he said something nasty to make fun of someone's religion.

I am a Christian and I would be horrified if one of my children said something like that.

[Truscifi]

How awful. We have dealt with similar, but not from a close friend. Ds would be terribly hurt by that as well.

 

:grouphug:  to you and your dd.

[Pawz4me]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Samm]

The parents of this girl need to hear what damage their daughter has done -- what they are reflecting to her.  They also need to understand that she is a lousy guest or hostess if all is true.

[creekmom]

I'm sure this little girl had no idea how much her words hurt - until she saw my daughter could no longer hold back her tears and wanted to go home. She's been taught that those who don't believe in God go to hell, and she would much rather my daughter go to heaven than live a long life and spend eternity in hell.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I remember when I was a kit attending a big box evangelical church.  The pastor told a (surely made up) story about how another pastor had been out boating with his own son and son's friend, a non-believer.  The boat capsized and he knew he could only save one boy.  So who did he save?  The unbeliever, because he knew his own son would go to Heaven, whereas the other boy needed more time to be "saved" before he died.  

 

Even as a child, I remember being completely horrified by the flippant way the pastor recounted this bizarre story.  

 

Certain Protestant sects are really about the Hellfire and Brimstone.  It doesn't make it any better, but the offending little girl was trying to express her extreme distress at believing her friend would go to eternal damnation.  I have sympathy for her, because I can remember being that girl, and wondering if all of my friends were saved or not, and worrying about it.  

 

Ultimately, it was one of the reasons I left religion for such a long time before finding a different sort of peace with Christianity.  I could not see worshiping that mean and spiteful God.  

 

ETA:  I wanted to emphasise that even though I can remember being the little girl afraid that my friends were going to Hell, it does not mean her comment was in any way acceptable, and I would be having it out with the parents if I were you.  I'm so sorry your little one was treated so badly.

[6packofun]

Wow, that's a pretty weird outburst.  Did she say it in response to your dd announcing that she doesn't believe in God anymore or something like that?  I can see a young child being so caught off guard or upset that they'd say something off the wall.  Was the girl mad?  Obviously, no matter what conversation happened it's unacceptable.  I'd hope her parents would think so, too!  I'd probably talk to the parents, as well, because they'll probably wonder why we're spending less/no time together.

[Aiden]

I'm so sorry something that hurtful was said to your daughter! I think I understand where the other girl was coming from, and that she was motivated by concern, but nothing makes those words OK.

[creekmom]

No outburst at all. My daughter has not believed in God for awhile but has been terrified her friends will find out and not want to be her friend anymore. This girl knows that my husband and a couple of her siblings don't believe and has assumed my daughter doesn't either. I've told my daughter that if the subject comes up to say that she's not allowed to talk about it (hoping this would save my daughter from having to state what she does/doesn't believe). This friend has decided my dd must not believe bc she doesn't want to talk about it.

[frogger]

I'm so sorry that your daughter was told this. I would be livid!

 

Yet, I will say though from your description and maybe I'm wrong that her little friend was actually caring about her. I know it showed up in a twisted way but what you are talking about is another confused little girl. It would be more unselfish, if I understood her families beliefs aright, that she was willing to give up a friend so her friend had a happy eternal life. It sounds like you are talking about a ten year old after all and 10 year olds are not as adept as we are at figuring out what other people hear versus what we meant.

 

I would want my daughter to understand why she said that and that perhaps she really cares about her. We often talk about about what other people believe and why they act the way they do. We can't know their hearts of course and there is a lot of "I don't knows" involved but overall it makes us more understanding.

 

It would greatly depend on my own daughters emotional strength and the children's relationship whether they hung out anymore. My daughter is a rock not easily swayed. If I had a very sensitive or unsure daughter I would be more protective.

Although, children can be given much undeserving guilt by adults so I would avoid putting the parents in charge of her for sleepovers etc. I'd be more inclined to invite the girl over to my house.

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.

[BlsdMama]

I hope you explained to DD that the little girl doesn't hate her... just that she believes this way and she loves her so she wants her in Heaven. I would think that would be some comfort to your daughter.

[Junie]

:grouphug:

[Truscifi]

I hope you explained to DD that the little girl doesn't hate her... just that she believes this way and she loves her so she wants her in Heaven. I would think that would be some comfort to your daughter.

 

In my experience, no, this is not especially comforting. Based in love or hate, her friend still wants her to die.

[creekmom]

I have explained to her that this friend loves her and is concerned about her and is only saying/believing these things because that's what she's been taught. My daughter's greatest fear is that she'll be rejected by her friends if she doesn't believe what they believe. I think the sleepover was the beginning of her fear coming true. After her friend said that, my dd replied, "It doesn't matter what we believe- we'll always be friends, right?" This girl replied, "I can't make any promises. I don't think God wants me to be friends with people who don't believe in him." She later told me, "I love her no matter what she believes - why can't she love me no matter what I believe?"

[TranquilMind]

My daughter(10) came home early from a sleepover - heartbroken and sobbing after her best friend said those cruel words to her. Why would this sweet little girl say this? Because we are no longer "believers". I'm assuming someone in her church or home told her that 20 was the magic number of accountability (which by the way, I've never read anything in the Bible that suggests that all children go to heaven before a certain age). That is just one more thing we add to our beliefs that makes us feel better about worshipping a god who sends people to eternal torment for believing the wrong story (or no story at all). To think that I used to believe this too makes me sick to my stomach now.

My daughter has a heart of gold that will never be the same after being told by the little girl she loves the most that she wants her to die in the next 10 years. Had to vent somewhere .... :(

That is an abominable thing to say to anyone for any reason at all.  I'm sorry that happened to your daughter!

Awful.

 

I'm sure if you told Mom, then daughter denied it. 

[TranquilMind]

I have explained to her that this friend loves her and is concerned about her and is only saying/believing these things because that's what she's been taught. My daughter's greatest fear is that she'll be rejected by her friends if she doesn't believe what they believe. I think the sleepover was the beginning of her fear coming true. After her friend said that, my dd replied, "It doesn't matter what we believe- we'll always be friends, right?" This girl replied, "I can't make any promises. I don't think God wants me to be friends with people who don't believe in him." She later told me, "I love her no matter what she believes - why can't she love me no matter what I believe?"

She's a little girl.  Perhaps she misunderstands her mission in life?

[HRAAB]

I'm sorry.  We've heard some cruel things, but nothing quite that cruel.

 

And there's no way to turn a cruel comment like that into a comforting comment when you're a little girl.  As an adult, I can mentally understand where the other person is coming from and choose to ignore it, but not at the age of 10.  

 

To be so specific about the age - 20 years - I would have to assume she has learned this at her church and from her parents.  I've heard similar things.  My sil told me that she and her dh prayed that if any of their children would, at some future time, reject Jesus, that God would take them before that time.  She considered her miscarriages an answer to that prayer.

[J-rap]

I'm really sorry.

 

I wouldn't assume that her parents or church is teaching this though.  Maybe the girl was just so upset (and probably confused), that she just blurted out the most angry thing she could think of in the moment.  Hopefully the parents would be just as appalled as you are.  I would probably talk to them.

 

 

 

 

[TranquilMind]

The parents of this girl need to hear what damage their daughter has done -- what they are reflecting to her.  They also need to understand that she is a lousy guest or hostess if all is true.

I agree with this.  The parents should know that this was your daughter's take away from that encounter. 

[ThisIsTheDay]

I'm so sorry that your daughter was told this. I would be livid!

 

Yet, I will say though from your description and maybe I'm wrong that her little friend was actually caring about her. I know it showed up in a twisted way but what you are talking about is another confused little girl. It would be more unselfish, if I understood her families beliefs aright, that she was willing to give up a friend so her friend had a happy eternal life. It sounds like you are talking about a ten year old after all and 10 year olds are not as adept as we are at figuring out what other people hear versus what we meant.

 

I would want my daughter to understand why she said that and that perhaps she really cares about her. We often talk about about what other people believe and why they act the way they do. We can't know their hearts of course and there is a lot of "I don't knows" involved but overall it makes us more understanding.

 

It would greatly depend on my own daughters emotional strength and the children's relationship whether they hung out anymore. My daughter is a rock not easily swayed. If I had a very sensitive or unsure daughter I would be more protective.

Although, children can be given much undeserving guilt by adults so I would avoid putting the parents in charge of her for sleepovers etc. I'd be more inclined to invite the girl over to my house.

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.

 

I agree here.  I think it's really important in life to understand why people say what they do.  Yes, it was a terrible thing for your dd to hear, but if you can help her see it in the way that it was meant by her friend, she will gain much understanding about the intent.  Her friend sees it as being a TRUE friend, a spontaneous response to someone she obviously cares very much about.

 

I'm not sure her parents would be terribly upset.  IF this is what they believe, and their child is echoing a heartfelt belief, would they see this as wrong?  Remember that they would be shocked and sad for you.

 

My children, at that age, would have a hard time adjusting from a life of church and believing to the life of an unbeliever.  I know that you mean well, but to instruct your dd to reply that she is not allowed to talk about her beliefs is an unrealistic response to friends' inquiries.  Even if her friends don't push the issue at that point (at 10, I would expect them to continue to question, "WHY can't you talk about it??"), her friends will find out at some point.  Your dd's friendships are continuing with your dd unable to talk about something that is probably very important to her friends. What a burden your girl is carrying, needing to consider that she may be "found out." 

 

At this point, it may be best to proactively searching for new friends, where your dd doesn't have to worry about secrets or putting up any kind of facade.

 

It's difficult, as an adult, to go through such a transformation in your life.  Children have different pressures.  I am truly sorry that you are having to deal with all of this.

 

[TranquilMind]

I'm really sorry.

 

I wouldn't assume that her parents or church is teaching this though.  Maybe the girl was just so upset (and probably confused), that she just blurted out the most angry thing she could think of in the moment.  Hopefully the parents would be just as appalled as you are.  I would probably talk to them.

I was thinking this as well.

 

Maybe her parents will be horrified that she said such a thing.  I would think so, anyway. 

[elegantlion]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  hugs to your dd. How cruel a comment, no matter the intent. 

[Brit29]

I'm really sorry that happened. Last week my daughter was asked point blank if she believed in God, by a 7 year old. When my dd said "probably, but I don't know yet". The kid told her she would be going to hell unless she asked Jesus to save her. I tried to discuss it with his mother, who was watching the encounter. She was less than helpful, stating that those were their beliefs. Needless to say, I won't be doing any more park days with that family. 

[creekmom]

I'm really sorry.

 

I wouldn't assume that her parents or church is teaching this though. Maybe the girl was just so upset (and probably confused), that she just blurted out the most angry thing she could think of in the moment. Hopefully the parents would be just as appalled as you are. I would probably talk to them.

You need to understand that she wasn't angry when she said this. This really did come from her heart. She truly believes that my dd will spend eternity in hell if she doesn't believe in God. To her, this was the only solution. Part of me fears for the life of my daughter. This reminds me a little of the mom who drowned her children in the bathtub to assure they would go to heaven. We read about that and are sickened by it, but if you truly, TRULY believed your children would go to hell - is there anything you wouldn't do to prevent that? Honestly, it makes me hate religion.

[frogger]

Wow, the last lines you quoted sounded more particularly hateful. If that is the case yes it is time to step back and look for real friends.

 

It sounds more like the mean girl syndrome than a religion though although there are some pretty strange cults out there. I would explain something to the parents but yes, if she is being nasty it is time to break off the friendship.

 

It stinks to learn how to draw boundaries at so young an age but you definitely want to use this as a teaching tool to safeguard her from potential abusive relationships in the future.

 

It hurts though. ☹

[6packofun]

No outburst at all. My daughter has not believed in God for awhile but has been terrified her friends will find out and not want to be her friend anymore. This girl knows that my husband and a couple of her siblings don't believe and has assumed my daughter doesn't either. I've told my daughter that if the subject comes up to say that she's not allowed to talk about it (hoping this would save my daughter from having to state what she does/doesn't believe). This friend has decided my dd must not believe bc she doesn't want to talk about it.

 

I'm sorry.  :(  I know it doesn't help and is not the same, but it reminds me of some of the mean things my own children have said when they are disappointed or frustrated by something.  It's no excuse, of course.

 

Just so you know, and I have no idea if this helps at all, but there are many Christians who do not believe that a person's separation from God in the afterlife = eternal physical torment.  You might be surprised to find many theologians, early Church fathers, and regular Joe Christians think the Bible points to another view, too.  I don't even understand why any "version" of hell comes up in conversations with friends, tbh, unless THEY ask!

[Cricket]

:grouphug:  We are believers but we don't encourage our children to evangelize to other children because of things like this.  Our role as Christians isn't to traumatize other people's children into "believing."  

 

ETA: I know I said things as a young person that I look back on now with very real regret.  I'd speak to the parents.  If the girl was simply repeating something her parents have said or, worse, encouraged, then it certainly won't harm any future relationship between the girls because that's probably over now anyway.  My parents, as believers, would have had a looooong talk with me if I had ever said something like that to a sleep-over guest.  

[Leav97]

It wouldn't surprise me if the parents don't have a problem with their daughters statement.  Sadly wishing people dead is considered acceptable by large parts of our society.  

 

You could have your daughter try, "I'm still exploring my faith." but, that's likely to bring lots of offers to seek christ and pressure to get saved.

 

There really isn't a reply that gets other kids to leave her faith\lack of faith out of the relationship.

[Laurie4b]

I'm very sorry that that happened to your sweet dd.  :grouphug:  

 

I would let the parents know. It may be that they know and would encourage this or it may be that they are also horrified. Kids can say some pretty shocking things at times. 

[annandatje]

At this point, I would discontinue relationship with this family based upon further information you provided.  Not even sure I would bother with contacting the girl's parent. 

 

Explain to your dear daughter that some people interpret their religion as encouragement to associate only with like-minded believers.  While that is unfortunate, she will certainly encounter this again, particularly if you are in bible belt or live around proselytizers.  Start searching for meetup groups of secular families or families who disregard religious faith in making friendship decisions.

 

All my children suffered hurtful experiences with aggressive proselytizers here in bible belt.  The kids would interpret the gestures of proselytizers as sincere attempts at friendship only to get the old dump-a-roo when the proselytizer realized that my kids were not going to convert to the proselytizer's faith.  I feel for your daughter and hope your family can find new accepting friends.

 

 

[catz]

:grouphug:

 

I would say something to the parents if only to make sure there wasn't more to the story.  I totally feel your pain.  We are secular UU's. 

 

I have a daughter that just turned 11.  Generally, I think this is the age where kids, and especially girls, really start being more picky about friendships.  They want to have friends that have similar interests and backgrounds.  Where many younger kids will play with whoever is around.  Not to mention some girls are starting to have hormonal swings and moodiness and aren't feeling very good about themselves either so they can lash out.  My dd has had some incidents in the past year that have infuriated me with girls in this age range over various things.  And I suspect my own daughter has said things the past year that haven't come out of her mouth in the nicest way even though at heart I think she is a good kid.   So if it weren't a religion thing, girls can find other things to pick at without any problem unfortunately.  I think it's been helpful here to remind my daughter that just because someone is lashing out doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong or the other person is a horrible person.   Sometimes people that are good friends at younger ages grow apart as they get older and that's ok.  People grow and change over time and it's part of growing up.  I think it's been good for my dd to know that if a friendship isn't working out, it's ok to explore other friendships. 

[Butter]

I am so sorry your daughter had to go through that.  Unfortunately, the girl is surely parroting things she's heard from adults.  I'll never forget the look on my daughter's face after the earthquake in Japan when one of her friends proclaimed the gates of hell were bursting with people that day.  Up to that point she hadn't realize some people don't believe as we do.  She was so upset and horrified that her friend believed that all those good people were in hell because they didn't believe in God - and possibly hadn't even been taught about Him.

[TranquilMind]

You need to understand that she wasn't angry when she said this. This really did come from her heart. She truly believes that my dd will spend eternity in hell if she doesn't believe in God. To her, this was the only solution. Part of me fears for the life of my daughter. This reminds me a little of the mom who drowned her children in the bathtub to assure they would go to heaven. We read about that and are sickened by it, but if you truly, TRULY believed your children would go to hell - is there anything you wouldn't do to prevent that? Honestly, it makes me hate religion.

You realize you are equating a mentally ill woman who drowned her kids with regular believers in this example where you state this action makes you "hate religion".

That's an inappropriate equation.

 

Christian families who do "truly, TRULY believe" are not drowning the kids to get them to heaven more quickly. 

 

I am sorry that your daughter had this experience though.  Despite the respective belief systems, it was clearly handled badly on the part of the girl and your daughter sounds like she handled it well.

[HRAAB]

Another thing I would consider is that the friend is also very young, and as young children are apt to do, at least mine have, they spout out things that given some years to mature, they would never say.  I'm not sure that I would want my dd to continue to interact with this family, but I would try to help her understand that this is what she has been raised to believe is the truth.  I guess I wouldn't want my dd to end up hating this other girl.  I wouldn't be surprised if some day that girl will regret what she said.

[creekmom]

You realize you are equating a mentally ill woman who drowned her kids with regular believers in this example where you state this action makes you "hate religion".

That's an inappropriate equation.

 

Christian families who do "truly, TRULY believe" are not drowning the kids to get them to heaven more quickly.

 

I am sorry that your daughter had this experience though. Despite the respective belief systems, it was clearly handled badly on the part of the girl and your daughter sounds like she handled it well.

I hate religion because it teaches that you have to believe something (without a shred of evidence) to avoid eternity in hell. That lady was mentally ill, but it was her faith that led her to believe that she was ultimately doing what was best by assuring their place in heaven. It's the same reason that a 9 year old (who is not mentally ill) hopes my daughter dies before she's 20.

[albeto.]

I hate religion because it teaches that you have to believe something (without a shred of evidence) to avoid eternity in hell. That lady was mentally ill, but it was her faith that led her to believe that she was ultimately doing what was best by assuring their place in heaven. It's the same reason that a 9 year old (who is not mentally ill) hopes my daughter dies before she's 20.

 

If we could figure out that line between "faithful" and "pathological," I think we could avoid a lot of suffering in the world. I'm not sure there really exists a "line," but more of a vague after-thought in context of events. In any case, Salon has an article called 6 reasons religion may do more harm than good. Huffpo (sorry), has an interesting take on your dd's friend. Solar Powered Bibles for Haiti: Why Some Christians Feel Compelled to Exploit Disaster. I agree with you that the sentiment from you dd's friend were probably inspired by genuine affection and worry. That's what makes it so terrible. I hope you can find like minded people in your area soon. Have you looked into meetup groups? If not, you might think of starting one. You could start by offering simple social gatherings. Brunch on Sundays is popular here. 

[foxbridgeacademy]

DD,who was 9 at the time, went to a sleepover at her bff's with some other girls she knew, but not well.  One girl ended up going home because DD's lack of belief "scared her".  Really the girl was a bit of a pain (whiner, wanted to be the boss) and was being left out so she tried to manipulate the situation by ostracizing DD.  It backfired, the girl was never invited to the friend's for a sleepover again (AFAIK).  There may be more to the girl's attitude and comments, she may be mad about something else and is using that (lack of religion) as a reason to pick on you child.

[gardenmom5]

:grouphug:   I'm sorry.  those sort of hateful words are not ones to change someone's beliefs.  I would hope it is just she's 10, and having a bad day. children can say mean things - and I hope it was just she was angry about something else and that's what came out.  (re: akin to kids yelling "I hope you die" to someone they're very angry with.  or even adults yelling - go to h##l.  they may not really believe it when they say it, but they still say it.)

 

My dd heard something similar from a little girl in 2nd grade at school. I do admit being glad she went to private school the next year. (as she was somewhat of a brat in other areas too.)

[Garga]

A number of posters have said that the girl was angry or hateful. But the OP keeps insisting it wasn't that way.

 

It was more like this, "I really, really don't want to go to this family reunion at the lake this weekend. Ugh." And someone replies, "Well, I hope it rains then!" The person isn't trying to ruin the reunion with their hope. But they're hoping for the best outcome for the person who doesn't want to go to the reunion.

 

"I don't believe in God."

"Well, I hope you die before 20 then, because that way, you'll get to be in heaven!"

 

Sounds to me that the other little girl was using the logic she had at her disposal to hope her friend goes to heaven. You are a non-believer + non-believers can go to heaven as long as they die before 20 = I hope you die before you're 20.

 

Nothing angry or hateful about it. Misguided? Very poorly worded? Bad logic? Sure. But not anger or hate.

[Cindy in FL.]

I think your dd needs some new friends. She really shouldn't have to be afraid her friends won't like her if she doesn't believe as they do. We are a Christian family, and my children would not treat their unbelieving friends that way.

[frogger]

I'm feeling guilty for giving any advice honestly. There are so many variables and you are the only one close enough to the situation to tell if it was a little girl afraid for her friend, or in fit of anger, or becoming angry because expectations placed on her and she is lashing out at others.

 

We all come to this with our own biases from the situations we have been in. To make any sort of judgement on a few lines on the internet is pretty dangerous though.

 

Your first duty is to protect your daughter but also to teach her how to handle tough things, to be strong and kind despite differences. It will take discernment and wisdom to know exacatly what to do.

[Guest]

I'm sorry, that was a very hurtful thing, indeed. Please do tell the parents so they at leader have a chance to sit down with their daughter and talk over their theology and her misunderstandings. Kids can be cruel over anything, but as a believer I'd absolutely want to know if my children were saying things like that in love or otherwise, so I could set them straight. That little girl also needs to ask for forgiveness for her unkindness and without a parent helping her to think through these things rightly I doubt she will understand where she went wrong.