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I have a rising senior who is not college bound (at least not right away...he will likely realize that he needs college and take online classes after he "spreads his wings" in the real world a bit and reality smacks him in the face ;) ). Anyway, he took Environmental Science in 9th (non-lab, with a co-op and an amazing teacher), Apologia Physical Science in 10th (again with our co-op) and Apologia Biology in 11th. Our state only requires 3 years of science and does not specify which or that any have to be a lab science. Technically, he doesn't even need another science in order to graduate. 

 

I also have a rising 10th grader who completed Apologia Physical in 8th and Bio in 9th. Not a terribly science-minded kid, but strong in math and college bound. Likely not pursuing a STEM career but one never knows!

 

Next is a rising 9th grader who hasn't had a solid science foundation, IMO. He is academically on the slow to average side. Likely not college bound and certainly not for science if he does go. He is more artsy. 

 

I am looking into a few things for next year and stumbled upon PAC IPC which is scheduled in HOD WG (which my 9th grader used this year...just not the science). It has physics and chemistry and HOD schedules a lab kit to go along with it. But the labs are mostly Physics and not Chemistry. I was hoping to use this with all 3 boys. My questions are these: 1. Would IPC be redundant for the boys who completed Apologia Physical? 2. Could I write it as "Chemistry" on the senior's transcript (the author suggests giving a student TWO credits: 1 for physics and 1 for chemistry. I don't think that sounds right and HOD doesn't suggest that either. However, I could give credit for either/or correct? 3. Would it make better sense for my 10th grader to move right into Chemistry separately and then Physics in 11th separately and then an Advanced science in 12th? 

 

Part of my dilemma is budget. I don't have a huge amount of money to put toward this. Using PAC IPC for all 3 boys would save me some money and they could work together which would save time with labs. Did I mention that labs never get done around here which is why I like to outsource science? ;) 

 

If the 10th grader did this, could he then go on to do a more Advanced Chemistry for 11th and Physics for 12th (or another science altogether)? 

 

Sorry so many questions. My oldest followed a traditional sequence and I didn't have this problem! LOL. Thanks for any input or advice you may have. 

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My questions are these:

 

1. Would IPC be redundant for the boys who completed Apologia Physical?

 

2. Could I write it as "Chemistry" on the senior's transcript (the author suggests giving a student TWO credits: 1 for physics and 1 for chemistry. I don't think that sounds right and HOD doesn't suggest that either. However, I could give credit for either/or correct?

 

3. Would it make better sense for my 10th grader to move right into Chemistry separately and then Physics in 11th separately and then an Advanced science in 12th? 

 

4. If the 10th grader did this, could he then go on to do a more Advanced Chemistry for 11th and Physics for 12th (or another science altogether)?

 

1. Yes

2. JMO: I would not recommend giving 2 credits for IPaC -- and the 1 credit I would give would be for "Integrated Chemistry and Physics"

3. Yes

4. Yes

 

For the "why" behind my answers, read my ramblings below. ;)

 

____________________________

 

 

So, to summarize, just to make sure I understand:

 

12th grader

done: 1 credit each = Environmental Science / Physical Science / Biology

need: not rigorous / not college-bound (at least, not immediately)

 

10th grader

done: 1 credit each = Physical Science / Biology

need: strong Math-based (so *possible* STEM-based) / college-bound

 

9th grader

done: ----

need: gentle/slower (for LDs) / science for arts-based / not college-bound

 

 

re: combining all 3

Based on the widely-varying needs and abilities of your students, no, I don't think you can combine all 3. Esp. when the older students need solid/average high school science credits, and the young 9th grader not only is NOT science-based, but needs gentle/slower science accommodations. I do think it is very possible and reasonable to combine the 10th and 12th graders. Do you have a 7th or 8th grader who would be ready for Physical Science and who could be combined with the 9th grader for science? Otherwise, I think the 9th grader needs his own science to go at his own pace, and older brothers can combine and work together. JMO! :)

 

re: IPaC

I've only looked at (not used) the Integrated Physics and Chemistry (IPaC) by Tiner that is used by Heart of Dakota's high school World Geography "core". From what I could tell by skimming/flipping through it (not actual use), it is heavily based around the history of key people/discoveries in Chemistry and Physics, light on depth about scientific principles, and light on application and labs. JMO: the program would make a good integrated Physical Science credit for a student who enjoys reading/history, and who does not care for science and labs. I could see doing it with an older high school student who has not had previously exposure to Physical Science and who had some LDs which would necessitate a lighter/gentler program.

 

So, no -- JMO, but from your description of your 3 high school students' needs and what sciences they have already accomplished, I don't think IPAC would best fit any of them right now:

12th grader needs a different science subject

10th grader needs a different science subject, and needs a more standard/rigorous program than IPAC

9th grader is not ready for IPAC

 

 

Alternative Ideas:

 

For the 10th and 12th graders

Yes, depending on what program it is, you can combine the 10th and 12th graders in a solid lab-based science. Chemistry or Physics would be "best" for their transcripts for college admissions, esp. the 10th grader. However, because the 12th grader may be heading in an alternative-to-4-year-college direction, AND because the 10th grader would still have 2 more years to get in solid, traditional Chemistry and Physics credits for science, you could use this year to do a less standard science of higher interest -- like, Astronomy, Earth Science, Forensics…

 

To help with budget, what about going with a free local virtual/charter school like K-12 (secular)? It looks like K-12 has solid offerings in the traditional high school sciences, plus Earth Science and Forensics as interesting options.

 

Also free are the Interactive California Digital Textbooks (and add labs through a kit):

Chemistry, Physics, Earth Science, Biology, Physical Science.

 

If you prefer Christian, there's Spectrum Chemistry (about $300), which can also be done largely independently by the student. Not cheap, but if you are having 2 do the program simultaneously it reduces costs (think of that as $150/student for science -- AND the ability to reuse again with later students). You could have the 10th & 12th graders do the labs together, and answer the questions in separate notebooks rather than in the student lab books, so you would only need to purchase enough for one student. And since it's mostly independent, they would not need much of your time. And, you could either save and reuse with future students. OR, resell as a "box lot" of the reuseable equipment, textbook, and teacher book for at least $100...

 

You could also save and buy used a textbook & teacher book from the Christian publisher that best matches your students -- Apologia, Abeka, Bob Jones… You would also need to purchase a new supply kit. And, these options are usually more teacher-intensive.

 

 

Have you considering requesting free donated curriculum from Book Samaritan? Getting some of your curriculum for free would allow you to pool your available homeschooling funds towards expensive science materials… Or, they might have high school science materials available to give you, so then your homeschool budget can go towards everything else...

 

Are there any homeschoolers locally you could borrow materials from for a year? And in exchange, let them borrow some of your materials you're not using this year?

 

 

Just trying to brainstorm on all your different questions. ;) BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

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I'll start by saying I agree with Lori. Then I'll add my specific responses. :)

 

I am looking into a few things for next year and stumbled upon PAC IPC which is scheduled in HOD WG (which my 9th grader used this year...just not the science). It has physics and chemistry and HOD schedules a lab kit to go along with it. But the labs are mostly Physics and not Chemistry. I was hoping to use this with all 3 boys. My questions are these: 1. Would IPC be redundant for the boys who completed Apologia Physical?

Yes, very redundant for the two olders.

 

2. Could I write it as "Chemistry" on the senior's transcript (the author suggests giving a student TWO credits: 1 for physics and 1 for chemistry.

No. Just no, sorry.

 

I don't think that sounds right and HOD doesn't suggest that either. However, I could give credit for either/or correct?

No. You could give a half credit for either, but not a full credit. They will not have completed a full credit of study in either subject and very little of the work will be beyond what they already did in Physcial Science, so I'd have trouble giving them any credit at all.

 

 

3. Would it make better sense for my 10th grader to move right into Chemistry separately and then Physics in 11th separately and then an Advanced science in 12th? 

Yes. If you want your 12th grader to have another year of science, combine them in Apologia Chemistry. 

 

 

Part of my dilemma is budget. I don't have a huge amount of money to put toward this. Using PAC IPC for all 3 boys would save me some money and they could work together which would save time with labs. Did I mention that labs never get done around here which is why I like to outsource science? ;)

Use Apologia Physical for your youngest, then the two olders combine in Chemistry. You still only buy one program.

 

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1. Yes, very redundant for the two olders.

 

2.No. Just no, sorry.

 

3. Yes. If you want your 12th grader to have another year of science, combine them in Apologia Chemistry. 

 

Part of my dilemma is budget...

Use Apologia Physical for your youngest, then the two olders combine in Chemistry. You still only buy one program.

 

:iagree:  Perfect! And so much more succinct than my ramblings!  :laugh:

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Wow. Thanks to those who answered! That was so very helpful! I "think" I have pretty  much decided to put my 9th grader in Apologia Physical. A friend has Apologia Physical and is going to let me borrow it. Lori, I do have a 7th grader but he will not be ready at all for Apologia Physical. He is also a bit "behind" academically (in reading and math mostly). I had the Spectrum Chemistry but sold it. I just didn't really like it after looking through it and the cost of supplies was going to deplete my budget. So...now I am looking at Chemistry 101 or Jay Wile's new Chemistry text or possible even a combo of both. 

 

Here is one more question: My rising 7th and 9th graders were working through The Rainbow Science the last semester of last year. The curriculum says it is for 12-14yo (or 7th-9th grade). If anyone has any experience with this, could you tell me if it would be "credit worthy" for 9th grade? I am already familiar with Apologia Physical and I like it but I do wonder about The Rainbow. Any thoughts there? Thanks again!

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Wow. Thanks to those who answered! That was so very helpful! I "think" I have pretty  much decided to put my 9th grader in Apologia Physical. A friend has Apologia Physical and is going to let me borrow it. 

 

Nice! That would be very helpful. Then you can keep the 10th and 12th graders together for Chemistry.

 

 

…  I do have a 7th grader but he will not be ready at all for Apologia Physical. He is also a bit "behind" academically (in reading and math mostly)...

 

Well, it was just a thought; sometimes those things work out to combine… and sometimes they don't. Maybe the 7th grader will be able to combine in a few years with a still-younger sibling! ;)

 

 

 I had the Spectrum Chemistry but sold it. I just didn't really like it after looking through it and the cost of supplies was going to deplete my budget. So...now I am looking at Chemistry 101 or Jay Wile's new Chemistry text or possible even a combo of both. 

 

Be aware that Chem 101 is really a middle school level program, in spite of what the publishers say. However, it would be fine as a supplement to Jay Wile's new high school Chemistry text, or other high school level program.

 

If you decide to go with Apologia Chemistry (I do not mean Jay Wile's new textbook), be VERY CAREFUL, whether buying new or used, to AVOID the 1st printing of the 3rd edition. The order of text material was changed from the 2nd edition, and there are over 100 pages of errors that you have to download from the Apologia website; the errors are in both the text and the problem sets, and there are many factual errors.

 

 

Here is one more question: My rising 7th and 9th graders were working through The Rainbow Science the last semester of last year. The curriculum says it is for 12-14yo (or 7th-9th grade). If anyone has any experience with this, could you tell me if it would be "credit worthy" for 9th grade? I am already familiar with Apologia Physical and I like it but I do wonder about The Rainbow. Any thoughts there? 

 

While Physical Science IS a legitimate high school science often done by 9th graders, it is not rigorous enough to "carry up" as a high school credit when done in 8th grade, since so many students typically do Physical Science in 8th grade.
 
In your specific situation:

If your DS does both levels (years) of Rainbow Science in one year in 9th grade, yes, you can count it as 1 credit of high school Science. I'd call it something like "Integrated Science" on the transcript, because only half of Rainbow Science (level 1 / year 1) is Physical Science (an overview of Physics and Chemistry topics), while the other half (level 2 / year 2) is mostly Life Science, with some very short units on other science topics thrown in.

 

If your DS is a DELAYED student or has LDs, and he completed half of Rainbow Science in 8th grade and completed the other half in 9th grade, then yes, I would could it all together as 1 credit of "Integrated Science" on the high school transcript.

 

However, if Rainbow Science was completed by any student while still in 8th grade, no, I would not recommend "carrying up" as a credit of high school science. Credits are only carried up from middle school when they are Biology or above, Algebra 1 or above, or high school level Foreign Language and the student is continuing with the next level of Foreign Language in high school.

 

Hope that helps! Warmest regards, Lori D.

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Thanks, Lori. I have looked at Chem 101 and while i do not feel it is a great college prep course, especially for a child going into a STEM field, I do think it would be enough for my 12th grader who has no STEM or college aspirations. I do agree that it is more "middle schoolish" and would work better as a supplement. I am familiar with VHSG as several of my children have used it for classes. :) My oldest used the 2nd edition of Apologia Chem and after comparing that to Wile's new text (at least the samples that are provided), I must say that I prefer Wile's new text. I have heard about the errors in the 3rd edition so I wouldn't use that. I realize that Wile wrote the 2nd edition of Apologia Chem as well but for some reason I like his new text better. I think I might start a new thread to see what other's preferences are over Wile's new text vs. 2nd edition Apologia. :)

 

As for The Rainbow, thanks for that opinion. He would complete BOTH years for 1 credit if that is the route we go. My only hesitation with that is that he won't be prepared for the more challenging material of Apologia Bio which he would take in 10th. Apologia Physical CAN be counted as a credit as written and it would be better prep for the Bio text. What do you think? The only benefit to The Rainbow would be the wide variety of topics. He has not had a very solid science foundation. Perhaps I could have him work alongside his brother in Rainbow and do Apologia on his own? 

 

 

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… As for The Rainbow… He would complete BOTH years for 1 credit if that is the route we go. My only hesitation with that is that he won't be prepared for the more challenging material of Apologia Bio which he would take in 10th.

 

… Apologia Physical CAN be counted as a credit as written and it would be better prep for the Bio text. What do you think? The only benefit to The Rainbow would be the wide variety of topics. He has not had a very solid science foundation.

 

… Perhaps I could have him work alongside his brother in Rainbow and do Apologia on his own? 

 

Sue, I'm sorry, I lost which DS you are referring to here about doing Rainbow years 1 & 2 vs. Apologia Physical Sci  -- the 9th grader or the 7th grader…?

 

 

If you're meaning the 9th grader (who is artsy rather than science-based, not college-bound, and on the slow to average side academically) -- JMO, but I think 9th grader will be fine just moving on ahead with Apologia Physical Sci for his high school science credit, in prep for doing Apologia Biology as his high school science credit in 10th. If you have him do the usual science progression in high school (Physical Sci, Biology, Chemistry, Physics), that will give him a fine science foundation. And, if her really *wants* to also then unless he is really *interested* in science and *wants* do the extra work and have the social time of working alongside 7th grade brother just for fun on his own time, no problem. :)

 

Just as a fun supplement, and as something to enjoy together, perhaps as a family start watching some science shows such as NOVA, or Mythbusters -- you can absorb a lot of information informally that way! :)

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I know that I am a homeschooler and do not have to follow "traditional" science progression. I would like to follow a sensible progression if that makes sense. My husband suggested that I just have all my high school boys do Chem 101 together. 9th, 10th and 12th. Since none are heading into a STEM field (except maybe the 10th grader and it is likely that he won't...he is interested in Photography) I think Chem 101 would be a good, basic, "get er done" Chemistry program. I plan to add in a few more books (the Chemistry that is scheduled in HOD's MtMM since I already own it) as well as perhaps a more advance experiment kit. So, that would mean the 9th grader would do Chem in 9th, Physical Science in 10th, Bio in 11th and a choice in 12th (he will not need physics unless he chooses). For the 10th grader, he will have completed Bio in 9th, Chemistry in 10th and the move into Physics in 11th and a more advanced science in 12th. 

 

Any thoughts on this?

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I know that I am a homeschooler and do not have to follow "traditional" science progression. I would like to follow a sensible progression if that makes sense. My husband suggested that I just have all my high school boys do Chem 101 together. 9th, 10th and 12th. Since none are heading into a STEM field (except maybe the 10th grader and it is likely that he won't...he is interested in Photography) I think Chem 101 would be a good, basic, "get er done" Chemistry program. I plan to add in a few more books (the Chemistry that is scheduled in HOD's MtMM since I already own it) as well as perhaps a more advance experiment kit. So, that would mean the 9th grader would do Chem in 9th, Physical Science in 10th, Bio in 11th and a choice in 12th (he will not need physics unless he chooses). For the 10th grader, he will have completed Bio in 9th, Chemistry in 10th and the move into Physics in 11th and a more advanced science in 12th. 

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Hi Sue,

From this post and your original post, it sounds like:

1. you really really want to have 3 high school students doing the same science 

2. you really are interested in trying out either the Chem 101, or Jay Wile's new Chemistry textbook

3. finances are a big factor

4. you would like to plan for the following 4 credits of science for the 3 students, in this order:

9th grader = 1 credit each: Chemistry / Physical Sci / Biology / a 4th science 

10th grader = 1 credit each: Biology / Chemistry / Physics / an advanced science

12th grader = 1 credit each: Environ. Sci / Physical Sci / Biology / Chemistry

 

 

For combining these particular 3 students...

Based on the background info you've provided, while I personally think it would be great to combine three high schoolers into one science/same program, I just don't think that would meet the needs of these 3 particular students. If the 9th grader were advanced and STEM-oriented, I'd say go for it and have all 3 do the Jay Wile text that you're interested in -- but, that's not the case here.

 

JMO: meeting the needs of the 10th grader is the priority -- he is the strongest in science, is most likely to go to college, and might end up in a STEM field. He most needs solid high school science. I personally would not put all of that at risk by using middle school level materials with this student. So either have him do a strong science program on his own, or, combine the 12th grader with the 10th grader.

 

The 9th grader as weaker in academics and not at all STEM-based. He is not going to be able to keep up at the level the 10th grader needs, so the 9th grader needs a separate program.

 

The 12th grader has 3 science credits. He may/may not go on to college. And he doesn't have a STEM-interest. So any science you do with the 12th grader is "gravy". You can combine him most easily with either younger brother, but probably best to combine with the 10th grader so the 12th grader moves forward in the science progression and with solid high school level materials, rather than taking a big step backwards and doing middle school work with the 9th grader.

 

 

For trying new materials...

The Chem 101 is a big unknown and will be brand new to you; usually a learning curve and extra time and energy on the part of both teacher and students when using new materials. The Jay Wile text will likely be similar to his Apologia programs, so probably less time/energy for transitioning into that. There would be no extra time/energy if you go with an older edition of Apologia Chemistry, as you all "know" Apologia.

 

 

For finances…

Your cheapest route would be to use what you already have (Physical Science for the 9th grader), and buy a used older edition of Apologia Chemistry (for 10th and 12th graders) -- then you'd just need to buy a new chemistry kit as the most expensive part of your science -- and you could supplement as desired, or as time permits, with the middle school level books from HoD MtMM. HOWEVER, since you want all 3 students doing Chemistry, then your cheapest route would be:

 

1. combine the 10th and 12th graders

spine = Apologia Chemistry

labs = Apologia Chem kit

optional supplements = Chem 101; HoD MtMM books

 

2. 9th grader

spine = Chem 101

labs = with older brothers

optional supplements = HoD MtMM books

 

 

If you really want to try out the new Jay Wile textbook, then that's possible, too, just more expensive:

 

1. combine the 10th and 12th graders

spine = Jay Wile Chemistry text

labs = chemistry kit that matches this text

optional supplements = Chem 101; HoD MtMM books

 

2. 9th grader

spine = Chem 101

labs = with older brothers

optional supplements = HoD MtMM books

 

 

BEST of luck in your science adventures next year! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

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Thanks, Lori. Wow. You should advertise your services. ;) You are good at this planning stuff. LOL. I feel much peace about combining all 3 in Chemistry. Either with Chem 101 for all 3 supplemented as needed for the older 2 or the option you laid out using Wile's text and Chem 101 as supplement. I ordered a Chem 101 and will take a good look at it before I decide. 

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Thanks, Lori. Wow. You should advertise your services. ;) You are good at this planning stuff.

 

:iagree:

If you ever decide to go into educational consulting Lori, I think you could get plenty of references from TWTM forums!

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