Parenting Spoiled Children (article)

[creekland]

People were asking questions, and I answered. I don't talk about how I parent because it makes me feel better, but because we're having a discussion about it and it's quite an interesting topic.  

 

Ditto.  I've seen several thousand kids in my 15 years of teaching at our local high school (average of 350 or so per class year) and the vast majority turn out fine regardless of parenting style.  Parents might have spanked or used time out.  They might be home a ton or working a ton.  They might have chosen day care or not.  MOST kids adapt just fine, mature just fine, and become themselves just fine - though becoming themselves can happen after they leave home and get exposed to more options.

 

Most humans adapt to rules and commands just fine too.  Some may take more time than others to catch on, but still, most will come around.

 

Some are even super compliant and really, anyone can do a super job with them or they might have been able to get by on their own easily.

 

My comments work well for ALL kids - I've never met one who disliked it.  However, my style also works well with non-compliant kids, those, like me, who would rather die than give in.

 

There are a few adults I don't get along with IRL.  They are the type who don't like humor and feel I coddle kids too much.  There was one teacher like that at school.  She just retired.  I had to work with her once and she purposely gave me the worst kids in her class.  I'm not sure if she just wanted a break or if she didn't believe the stories about how I got along with "those kids."  Either way, I was clueless at the time to be honest.  At the end of the class she came over and asked how the kids were.  "Fine," I told her.  "Where's their work," she asked.  I gave it to her.  "You got them to do it???  How???"  I shrugged.  The same way I always get kids to do things.   ;)  Ever since that day until she retired last year she has not liked me...  It bugged me for a while, but... one can't get along with everyone.

 

To each our own.

 

The things I share are for folks who are interested in contemplating the style.  It doesn't have to be for everyone.

 

I'll admit I feel for the kids who have a non-compliant natural personality and end up in bad places though.  It could have been me.  I've no idea why it wasn't to be honest - other than I had time and space (and ability) to figure things out for myself.  It was also vitally important that I had a terrific 7th grade guidance counselor who showed me that my way "out" was education.  After that talk, school became important to me... and yes, it led to a way out.

 

(With non-compliant kids, if something isn't important TO THEM, it's not important.  It's still pretty much the same as an adult TBH.  The guidance counselor showed ME the reason school should be important.  That made all the difference in the world in my grades and "obedience" - obedience to a point anyway.  I still got away with a lot.   :coolgleamA: )

 

Okay. Well what bothers me about your example is that it seems to illustrate a dynamic of presuming a power struggle and inconsiderateness. I would and do say to my husband something like, "Please put the laundry away." Or whatever. And he might say something like that to me as well.

 

It is not barking or commanding. It's a simple sentence. 

 

You see it that way.  Many others see it that way.  Some of us instinctively do not.

 

That's why I'm sharing.

 

It's easy for me to understand how others think (given many laps around the sun and quite a bit of experience with other people IRL as well as some online - it's more difficult online).  However, it's common for humans (myself included at a younger age) to assume that EVERYONE thinks as we do - or close enough anyway.  That's just not true.  It's common for parents to expect their children to be little clones.  That's just not true either.

 

Sometimes it helps if someone who thinks differently - whose whole mindset is different - shares and those who see "something different" in their kids can glean from that.

 

It might help another kid (and parent) out there somewhere.  One never knows.

[regentrude]

I guess I was more wondering if kids that are trained to obey all the time are easier to manage in a crisis situation.

 

No, that has not been my experience. We do not train our kids to be obedient all the time, so they know that in the rare situation when we expect unquestioning obedience it is literally a matter of life or death. They do not need to ask questions because they get to ask questions all the time and they can trust that we have good reasons for our requests. So, when we are on a dangerous mountain, they know the reason for us needing them to obey first and ask later and never had trouble cooperating. Which is why we have been able to take them on routes at early ages that I would not dream taking any of their friends on.

[myfunnybunch]

But what if they are soaking wet and soak your car in the process on the way home because they don't have a towel and you know you'll be in a hurry so no time for a drip dry? I also think that if they know better than to complain about forgetting the pool towel, you have somehow taught them to (obey, cooperate, whatever word you'd like to use) about not complaining, and that Mama means it when she says no complaining.

I accept the risk of a soaking wet kid in the car. If I am in charge of the schedule and everyone is rushing out of the pool, that's on me. A soaking kid in the car is also a consequence of my schedule choice. Plus, I don't care about a soaked kid in the car. :)

 

I don't think I've explicitly taught them "Mama means it" when I say no complaining. I just disengage, "Mmm," or ask how they're going to use the experience to plan for next time. I guess they've learned but not because I've made it about cooperating or obeying " no complaining." Trying to figure out how I'd categorize it--extinction (ignoring) or teaching a replacement behavior (problem-solving for next time), neither of which have much to do with following directions obediently or cooperatively.

 

I think you're right that in practice most of us do and say some of the same things. :) I just try to be very careful of how I frame parenting to myself and to my children because I do think (to me!) the way I frame and perceive things colors how I present them across our daily life. So cooperation vs. obedience is an important distinction to me.

[creekland]

I need to correct a little bit of my post.  I said my method works for all kids.  It doesn't.  It won't work on kids who are actively using drugs (high at the time).  Their brains are not working normally at that time and I'm not sure much will get through to them.

 

And, there was one Muslim immigrant boy who had been taught that females were inferior and shouldn't be teaching.  Our admin had the family in for a conference and dad thought the same way.  There was no way "I" was winning anything with that one.  The lad wouldn't even listen to any female in our school.  We were all relieved when he moved out of our state as the problem kept escalating and the courts were involved.  NOTE that every other Muslim immigrant, local, or exchange student has been superb and we get along great.  This was just a far extreme belief - not a reflection of their religious views as a whole group.

 

 

I guess I was more wondering if kids that are trained to obey all the time are easier to manage in a crisis situation. 

 

Definitely not!  These are the kids who generally have a tough time thinking outside the box and need to be told everything in order to do something as they aren't used to making their own decisions.  They are more difficult in certain situations.  (AGAIN, not every student will be like this, but the majority sure are.)  Hubby chaperones field trips on occasion and has come across kids who don't even know how to order their own food in a restaurant because a parent has always done it for them or told them what they can eat.  That's an extreme, of course, but it still models what tends to happen.  They also tend to be the more fearful kids.

 

Most kids figure out crisis situations and instantly look for leadership without question.  Parenting style likely doesn't matter.  We've actually had a few lockdowns or "stay in your room" commands from admin.  Usually these are health related (a student having a health issue and not wanting kids in the hallway for privacy), but due to the large number of school shootings in our country, many kids can get super fearful - esp once when we also lost power for a time - that one wasn't a health issue...

 

Based upon these situations I've been in, if it's a crisis I'm in, I'd prefer at that time to be with some of the non-compliant kids as they not only look to leadership they already trust, they also think and act based upon their situation.  Many others are falling to pieces and need to be continually affirmed that everything is ok.  That latter group is more difficult for one person to control.  (There are tons of kids in the middle and not at either extreme.)

 

No, that has not been my experience. We do not train our kids to be obedient all the time, so they know that in the rare situation when we expect unquestioning obedience it is literally a matter of life or death. They do not need to ask questions because they get to ask questions all the time and they can trust that we have good reasons for our requests. So, when we are on a dangerous mountain, they know the reason for us needing them to obey first and ask later and never had trouble cooperating. Which is why we have been able to take them on routes at early ages that I would not dream taking any of their friends on.

 

Yes this!  We also have taken our kids many places at young ages - and left them home alone at ages that would make many on here cringe.  I would not do that with most other kids.  They don't have the ability to think about what to do on their own.

 

I know you are talking about unquestioned obedience and that comes from a crisis, but many times in a crisis we also need kids to be able to think and act without having to tell them what to do for every move.  To do this in a potentially dangerous situation they have to be used to doing this in normal situations...

 

That said, in a direct "dangerous criminal/war" situation we non-compliant types are either going to be the hero or be dead.  It'll all depend upon whether our on the spot thinking works or not.  We won't be among those lined up and shot later nor will we be among those who get out via negotiations from outside though.  Chances are we won't be able to "obey" that long.

[Pen]

Are there research studies on what happens if a child is paid $1 to score a basket versus not?  I'm not sure that assumptions about it would be correct as to the reality.  Would it matter what the $1 is then used for?

 

I think there are separate issues about the effects on children and also the effects on parents.

 

When my ds was in brick and mortar school there was one upmanship about vacations to Europe and other far away places (we never went anywhere as my ds often reminded me), and at one moment I recall a child in the class asking me what I was going to do for them for my ds's birthday.  They'd been used to as a class having parents rent out a swimming pool, a skate rink, a gymnastics facility...all way beyond my means not only financially but also due to chronic illness problems.  It was hard on me, feeling like I could not provided those things too, but I do not know that it mattered all that much to my ds.  Special in his life were his dog, a bike, a best friend.

 

At the same time, just ordinary in our life, and limited as compared to what many people in our area have is "spoiled" compared to many in the world.  And the dog gets meals in a dish regularly while there are kids scavenging in trash for what they can get.

 

Also, I have noticed that a lot of "special" things have taken away from the more simple...  for example, ds had been making his own bows and arrows and enjoying it, spending hours a day on it and having fun while also learning--then an aunt and uncle got him store-bought ones and he never liked it as much again.

 

But would being paid $1 to score a basket take away?  I do not know.  And I don't think the author of the article actually would truly know either beyond his/her emotional reaction of upset to it.

 

PS I was also confused about the Oxfam dinner and the issue of $12K...   In some parts of the world having $12K could make one well off, in others it is below poverty line.  Where I am having $12K per year does not put one at the table with the wine and so on type meal.  

[Runningmom80]

you know, after reading this thread, it kind of feels like most of us parent in pretty similar ways.  We just take different paths to get there.

[Storygirl]

Creekland, I think you have an interesting perspective, having worked with so many different children. But how would you know the parenting style of each of those families? Some of what you are talking about is personality. People can be timid no matter what kind of parents they had. People can be out-of-the-box thinkers even if they had very traditional parents. My brother's personality is completely opposite my own, and we were very different students (I was top of the class and a rule follower; he almost flunked out and got into a lot of trouble) though we had the same parents. I have one very compliant child and three who are boundary pushers. Same parents.

 

Also, we stress obedience at home, but because I have non-compliant children, a teacher at school may not be able to tell that. They may attribute my child's renegade behavior to a permissive parenting style, but they would be wrong.

[Ausmumof3]

I need to correct a little bit of my post. I said my method works for all kids. It doesn't. It won't work on kids who are actively using drugs (high at the time). Their brains are not working normally at that time and I'm not sure much will get through to them.

 

And, there was one Muslim immigrant boy who had been taught that females were inferior and shouldn't be teaching. Our admin had the family in for a conference and dad thought the same way. There was no way "I" was winning anything with that one. The lad wouldn't even listen to any female in our school. We were all relieved when he moved out of our state as the problem kept escalating and the courts were involved. NOTE that every other Muslim immigrant, local, or exchange student has been superb and we get along great. This was just a far extreme belief - not a reflection of their religious views as a whole group.

 

 

 

Definitely not! These are the kids who generally have a tough time thinking outside the box and need to be told everything in order to do something as they aren't used to making their own decisions. They are more difficult in certain situations. (AGAIN, not every student will be like this, but the majority sure are.) Hubby chaperones field trips on occasion and has come across kids who don't even know how to order their own food in a restaurant because a parent has always done it for them or told them what they can eat. That's an extreme, of course, but it still models what tends to happen. They also tend to be the more fearful kids.

 

Most kids figure out crisis situations and instantly look for leadership without question. Parenting style likely doesn't matter. We've actually had a few lockdowns or "stay in your room" commands from admin. Usually these are health related (a student having a health issue and not wanting kids in the hallway for privacy), but due to the large number of school shootings in our country, many kids can get super fearful - esp once when we also lost power for a time - that one wasn't a health issue...

 

Based upon these situations I've been in, if it's a crisis I'm in, I'd prefer at that time to be with some of the non-compliant kids as they not only look to leadership they already trust, they also think and act based upon their situation. Many others are falling to pieces and need to be continually affirmed that everything is ok. That latter group is more difficult for one person to control. (There are tons of kids in the middle and not at either extreme.)

 

 

Yes this! We also have taken our kids many places at young ages - and left them home alone at ages that would make many on here cringe. I would not do that with most other kids. They don't have the ability to think about what to do on their own.

 

I know you are talking about unquestioned obedience and that comes from a crisis, but many times in a crisis we also need kids to be able to think and act without having to tell them what to do for every move. To do this in a potentially dangerous situation they have to be used to doing this in normal situations...

 

That said, in a direct "dangerous criminal/war" situation we non-compliant types are either going to be the hero or be dead. It'll all depend upon whether our on the spot thinking works or not. We won't be among those lined up and shot later nor will we be among those who get out via negotiations from outside though. Chances are we won't be able to "obey" that long.

See this is the thing. I do parent fairly democratically, I think. I'm not an instant obedience type. And it didn't play out like that for us. Maybe because of the age of my kids (still very young), and they didn't actually grasp that it was an emergency. My older kid was great. It's had me questioning some of my strategies. Anyway it all turned out ok in the end.

[Laura Corin]

 

When my ds was in brick and mortar school there was one upmanship about vacations to Europe and other far away places (we never went anywhere as my ds often reminded me), and at one moment I recall a child in the class asking me what I was going to do for them for my ds's birthday.  They'd been used to as a class having parents rent out a swimming pool, a skate rink, a gymnastics facility...all way beyond my means not only financially but also due to chronic illness problems.  It was hard on me, feeling like I could not provided those things too, but I do not know that it mattered all that much to my ds.  Special in his life were his dog, a bike, a best friend.

 

 

A few years ago, Hobbes was rather wistful about all the fabulous holidays that his friends went on - jetting off to the far side of the world.  We are lucky that most years we do holiday: a rented self-catering holiday cottage for a week somewhere within driving distance.

 

Just recently, he told me out of the blue that he really respected the way that we are careful with money in order to provide what the family needs, and be less likely to burden him and his brother financially in our old age.

[creekland]

Creekland, I think you have an interesting perspective, having worked with so many different children. But how would you know the parenting style of each of those families? Some of what you are talking about is personality. People can be timid no matter what kind of parents they had. People can be out-of-the-box thinkers even if they had very traditional parents. My brother's personality is completely opposite my own, and we were very different students (I was top of the class and a rule follower; he almost flunked out and got into a lot of trouble) though we had the same parents. I have one very compliant child and three who are boundary pushers. Same parents.

 

Also, we stress obedience at home, but because I have non-compliant children, a teacher at school may not be able to tell that. They may attribute my child's renegade behavior to a permissive parenting style, but they would be wrong.

 

I don't know the parenting style of most of the kids.  However, there are groups where I do.  Since my youngest son went there for high school and all of mine went there for elementary school, I know their friends and those styles.  Plus, I actively work to get to know as many kids as I can by talking with them in bits and pieces.  The outlier kids are ones I get to know better - those who are tougher challenges and those who are super talented academically - different reasons, but I still get to know them better.  That always includes parents/family/guardians, etc. from their perspective at least.  For some of the challenges I also get parent/guardian info from guidance.

 

Then I pay attention to the chatter in the class.  That often includes their views of their parents as they talk about doing things or going places.

 

I absolutely know that different kids come from the exact same parents.  I have three boys.  Let me tell you the differences! ;)  If we had stopped at two kids hubby and I would have thought we were nigh onto the perfect parents and wondered what was wrong with everyone else... then our third came along - and he's the most like me in mindset.  Hubby is authoritarian by nature.  The two of them clash like crazy.  I need to work both sides (often) to keep the peace, and so far it's working, but there's usually initial frustration on both sides.  Quite honestly it can be frustrating for me too even though I know what's going on in his mind.  Having him has actually made me more aware of changes I need to make for myself, but even with awareness, those changes don't come as easily as I would like.

 

And yes, at school, siblings can be very different.  Very, very different.

 

There are times when parents are the problem (like with ordering at a restaurant or when parents provide their kids drugs or tell them school isn't worth their time/effort or abuse situations, etc), but for the vast majority of kids under the bell curve, parenting style doesn't really matter.  They will be themselves and become themselves. There are times when parents are legitimately doing a terrific job, but junior just has issues of one sort or another.

 

There really is a huge variety.  Until I worked at school I had no idea just how huge the variety was.

[creekland]

See this is the thing. I do parent fairly democratically, I think. I'm not an instant obedience type. And it didn't play out like that for us. Maybe because of the age of my kids (still very young), and they didn't actually grasp that it was an emergency. My older kid was great. It's had me questioning some of my strategies. Anyway it all turned out ok in the end.

 

Turning out ok at the end is the most important thing.  ;)

 

And as I mentioned before, the majority of my advice is from my experience with tweens - adults.

 

There are times with very young kids where a parent has to be authoritarian to stop certain behaviors.  A two - four year old can't really grasp why they shouldn't be playing next to a road or pet the strange dog, etc.  For us, we would still explain why as we picked them up, but I suspect that's true of most parents.  If not, there are still years for them to figure it out.

 

And in an evacuation situation, that's definitely a time when most of us would turn authoritarian whether our kids grasped the crisis or not.  That's our job.  Teaching about it comes later when the whole thing is part of a discussion.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just an observation:  When our kids were young, I found that my parenting style of expecting and teaching obedience (in a gentle fashion) was a lot quicker than my friends who would spend ten minutes or more trying to cajole their kids into putting their shoes on, getting in the carseat etc.  While they would be engaged in a battle every single time, I would just say, "Time to __________" and my kids would do it.  Now that these same kids are graduating high school, they are just as successful at applying to college etc.  But I know that the moms had a lot of stress in parenting over the years that I didn't have.  (We've had stress.  And my kids aren't naturally compliant.  And one is an Aspie who could argue the hind leg off of a donkey.")  But in the daily execution of life, things went pretty smoothly and efficiently.  And I consciously worked to make it go pretty smoothly and efficiently.  That doesn't mean though that I didn't also do things like give a heads- up to my child who does not manage transitions well, or help them with executive function things that might make things run smoother - we did all those things as well.  I'm just saying that it was not the power struggle over simple things that my friends experienced.  

 

Another observation, I did step in gently a couple of times with friends and their kids.  While they were begging Johnny to put on his shoes, I would say, "Hey, Johnny.  Do you want to put on your shoes here or in the car?"  (Note no option to not put shoes on at all.)  Johnny would choose one of those and we would be off.  (No one got mad at me.  I was simply trying to get in the car so we could go to the zoo, already.)  

[SKL]

I also have friends who will wait around until their (young) kids are ready to get with the program.  They see it as the kid developing the right reasoning gradually.  I respect that, but as Jean noted, wow their parenting is hard work and their options are limited.  We are all raising great kids, but I got more sleep and might have enjoyed those years more, I don't know.

 

Another point.  I had one really amazingly compliant kid when they were little (and one quietly stubborn one).  The compliant kid has behavior issues.  They are issues that are difficult to root out.  However, when my kids were at the age when other kids make fusses, I looked like the best parent.  Outward appearances lie.  I worry about my kid growing up and making big mistakes.  It was nice when she did as asked as a toddler, but it didn't prove anything.  (My kid's issues aren't because of good or bad parenting, they are just the package she came with.)

[mommymilkies]

All in all, kids are no more or less "bad" than any generation. Old fingers wagging in young faces is nothing new, even if the argument takes on different examples. 

 

:iagree:

You don't think parenting is different for this generation? Everything is so kid-centric now, and the pressure has to be more than my mom experienced.

 

I get what you're saying that every generation complains about the next, but I do think we face unique challenges as parents to this next generation as far as reigning in expectations and instilling work ethic. (I especially agreed with the point about over scheduled kids not even having time to do chores.)

As for being kid-centric, well, I'd really prefer that over the latch-key unparenting a lot of us were raised in. :/ My life is kidcentric because I have kids.  But that doesn't mean that I make them think the world actually revolves around them.  That's confusing, I know.  But it's a choice.  I chose to lose my career to be with my kids.  I chose to live off of one income.  I choose to spend many nights at ball fields, waiting rooms, and singing kids to sleep.  And I also choose for my kids to become healthy adults or else what was the point of all of that? Every generation has unique challenges.  Dh and I were basically unparented and have purposefully chosen to live a life centered on our kids. That sounds very codependent, but it's not in reality.  Coffee has yet to kick in. :P  If you look at the trend in the last 150 years or so with generations and major events (war, etc.) you can see this shifting back and forth.  Women entering the workforce in WWII, the movement towards the Cleavers, then a return of female autonomy and reentering the workforce.  A backlash against strict societal rules and then people trying to find center again. Really, it's fascinating. 

 

lol on some of these examples.

 

If child doesn't want to do X because they are reading, I get someone else to do it or do it myself, because, reading. I even let kids read at the dinner table :)

 

Rooms ? They clean them up when they get sick of them being messy. I can't recall having a conversation about it in the recent past.

 

Laundry we don't even talk about. If you want clean clothes, put them in  the laundry basket, if you only have dirty clothes to wear, oh well, remember for next time.

 

Obeying is for safety issues only. You will wear a seatbelt, for example (when they were younger). You will exit the house if the fire alarm goes off without stopping for anything, that k ind of thing.

 

Idk. A little bit of empathy goes a long way. Ds complains about having to do school. So we talk about how wonderful it would be to never to school again and have a little imaginative trip to no-school land, and then we come back and do school. Most kids just want to know you hear them.

 

When the kids were younger, most everything was done side by side. If a four year old is losing the plot over something, I figure he's losing the plot for a reason, and I help him out. 

 

My children have not grown up to be spoiled. 

I keep asking you to marry me, but when will you say yes?  Of course, I'm terrified of Australian wildlife, so maybe we can agree on New Zealand?

 

 

 

No, that has not been my experience. We do not train our kids to be obedient all the time, so they know that in the rare situation when we expect unquestioning obedience it is literally a matter of life or death. They do not need to ask questions because they get to ask questions all the time and they can trust that we have good reasons for our requests. So, when we are on a dangerous mountain, they know the reason for us needing them to obey first and ask later and never had trouble cooperating. Which is why we have been able to take them on routes at early ages that I would not dream taking any of their friends on.

Exactly.  My kids have learned the "obey!" tone in me pretty quickly. Most NT kids learn those tones and expressions really quickly.  It's kind of funny hearing my teen get her own very serious voice when she helps watch the kids.  They've learned hers, too, and will obey immediately when they hear it.  But like the Boy Who Cried Wolf, it can only be used for life and death matters. I've had to practice this recently with my 4 yo who does not seem to get road safety.  I would never want my kids to thoughtlessly obey my every word.  It's important for them to think for themselves and still understand danger signs. Trust is vital in the parenting relationship.

 

And yes, I take my kids on rather dangerous hiking trails from infancy, as well.  I've climbed ladders near waterfalls with babies on my back, pushed little butts up ravines, swung on vines, but we start small and teach them safety young. I have never once had a problem with a safety issue or punishment in these situations because they are taught young to listen to me and to respect nature's dangers. Respect. Trust.  Not punishment or external rewards. 

[kwg]

Just an observation:  When our kids were young, I found that my parenting style of expecting and teaching obedience (in a gentle fashion) was a lot quicker than my friends who would spend ten minutes or more trying to cajole their kids into putting their shoes on, getting in the carseat etc.  While they would be engaged in a battle every single time, I would just say, "Time to __________" and my kids would do it.  Now that these same kids are graduating high school, they are just as successful at applying to college etc.  But I know that the moms had a lot of stress in parenting over the years that I didn't have.  (We've had stress.  And my kids aren't naturally compliant.  And one is an Aspie who could argue the hind leg off of a donkey.")  But in the daily execution of life, things went pretty smoothly and efficiently.  And I consciously worked to make it go pretty smoothly and efficiently.  That doesn't mean though that I didn't also do things like give a heads- up to my child who does not manage transitions well, or help them with executive function things that might make things run smoother - we did all those things as well.  I'm just saying that it was not the power struggle over simple things that my friends experienced.  

 

Another observation, I did step in gently a couple of times with friends and their kids.  While they were begging Johnny to put on his shoes, I would say, "Hey, Johnny.  Do you want to put on your shoes here or in the car?"  (Note no option to not put shoes on at all.)  Johnny would choose one of those and we would be off.  (No one got mad at me.  I was simply trying to get in the car so we could go to the zoo, already.)  

 

 

oh, that just brought a smile to my face. I remember how angry my youngest would get when I would say something like that to him.  "Why do you get to make my choices? They are MY choices. "  :lol:  

 

Funny how each child looks at it differently.  My oldest appreciated a choice.  My youngest was not fooled.

[creekland]

Just an observation:  When our kids were young, I found that my parenting style of expecting and teaching obedience (in a gentle fashion) was a lot quicker than my friends who would spend ten minutes or more trying to cajole their kids into putting their shoes on, getting in the carseat etc.  While they would be engaged in a battle every single time, I would just say, "Time to __________" and my kids would do it.    

 

FWIW, we never had problems with this either.  Like you, we gave choices in the question, but not doing it was never an option.  I do that at school too.  ;)

 

We also spanked for willful disobedience at young ages (well, old enough ages - not very young), so there's that too.  I never found time outs to be effective, but mine weren't tantrum toddlers either.  

 

Our parenting of our young kids was different than our older kids except that we always backed up our decisions with reasons.  That never changed.  Our kids understand us and why we do what we do quite well.

 

Switching from "young" to "old" was tough with our oldest because, well, we were new at this parenting thing.  It was far easier with our other two.  I feel badly that we made some mistakes with oldest - things I would do over and change if he were young again, but in circles I hang out with, that's common.  We all learn as we go along.  Oldest still holds some resentment toward us to be honest.  I wish he didn't.

 

I also think we switched too early with youngest.  We expected more of him around 5th + 6th grade than he was really mentally capable of, but he survived.  ;)  He's also told us he thinks we're great parents (as has middle, but anyone could have parented him just fine).  Hearing/reading affirmation really warms the heart - esp after oldest and his resentments.

 

Plus after having kids - especially youngest - I also apologized to my parents for being a crappy kid...  ;)   I think oldest will understand our parenting after he has kids of his own and finds out it really isn't as easy as one thinks to be right all the time.

 

All advice I offer at this point comes from years of my own and school kids and what I would ideally do.  One must never forget all of us are actually human and make mistakes in developing our ideal world.

 

Fortunately, most of our kids survive and do just fine.

[goldberry]

Funny how each child looks at it differently.  My oldest appreciated a choice.  My youngest was not fooled.

 

Yeah.  I had a child that wouldn't go for the choice option either.  I gave up on parenting books about that time...  :glare:

[SKL]

oh, that just brought a smile to my face. I remember how angry my youngest would get when I would say something like that to him.  "Why do you get to make my choices? They are MY choices. "  :lol:  

 

Funny how each child looks at it differently.  My oldest appreciated a choice.  My youngest was not fooled.

 

Yeah, my stubborn kid would always choose #3 if I offered her #1 or #2.  If I gave 3 choices, she would choose #4.  Apparently she was allergic to agreeing with Mom.

 

[SKL]

Yeah.  I had a child that wouldn't go for the choice option either.  I gave up on parenting books about that time...  :glare:

 

Actually for me, that was the time I bought my first parenting book:  "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline."  It helped.  :)  My kid is still alive to prove it.  :P

[creekland]

Yeah, my stubborn kid would always choose #3 if I offered her #1 or #2.  If I gave 3 choices, she would choose #4.  Apparently she was allergic to agreeing with Mom.

 

 

I completely get it.  ;)

 

And when I deal with older kids, this is when I turn to humor to disarm them.  It works well. Very well.

 

[SKL]

I completely get it.  ;)

 

And when I deal with older kids, this is when I turn to humor to disarm them.  It works well. Very well.

 

 

Yeah, one of mine responds well to humor in that situation.  The other becomes very literal when upset and will also twist my words into mean things I didn't say.  Humor backfires with her.

 

Oh well, I guess it helps to know our own kids well.  :)

 

[creekland]

FWIW, I'll still make up Option 3 or 4 if I don't care for the first two.  That trait never really goes away.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Just an observation:  When our kids were young, I found that my parenting style of expecting and teaching obedience (in a gentle fashion) was a lot quicker than my friends who would spend ten minutes or more trying to cajole their kids into putting their shoes on, getting in the carseat etc.  While they would be engaged in a battle every single time, I would just say, "Time to __________" and my kids would do it.  Now that these same kids are graduating high school, they are just as successful at applying to college etc.  But I know that the moms had a lot of stress in parenting over the years that I didn't have.  (We've had stress.  And my kids aren't naturally compliant.  And one is an Aspie who could argue the hind leg off of a donkey.")  But in the daily execution of life, things went pretty smoothly and efficiently.  And I consciously worked to make it go pretty smoothly and efficiently.  That doesn't mean though that I didn't also do things like give a heads- up to my child who does not manage transitions well, or help them with executive function things that might make things run smoother - we did all those things as well.  I'm just saying that it was not the power struggle over simple things that my friends experienced.  

 

Another observation, I did step in gently a couple of times with friends and their kids.  While they were begging Johnny to put on his shoes, I would say, "Hey, Johnny.  Do you want to put on your shoes here or in the car?"  (Note no option to not put shoes on at all.)  Johnny would choose one of those and we would be off.  (No one got mad at me.  I was simply trying to get in the car so we could go to the zoo, already.)  

 

No saying you directed this at me or anyone in particular, but it was never this simple for me.  Stuff like time to go or everyday stuff, that was never an issue.  I didn't have to cajole or explain.  Where it got complicated, especially with my younger kid, is stuff that was far more complicated and not about everyday mundane stuff.  I wish I could think of a good example.  Maybe I have tried to forget.  But I'm talking, mostly at home, he'd flip out and scream for 2 hours straight if I reacted in a way that was "no nonsense I'm the boss".  I wondered why I could not control my kid.  Surely I'm not being harsh enough right?  The harsher I got, the worse it got.  And again, this was not over piddly little things like okay it's time to go.  I basically had to develop my own way of coping that really involved a lot of patience and a lot of letting go of the idea I was the boss.

 

I don't know what other people really go through with their own children.  I am not saying their methods do not work for them, but what I am saying is that there is no one method that works for everyone.  Life would be a hell of a lot less complicated if that were the case.  It's not.  There is nothing that could convince me of that either.

This really wasn't so much directed at you except you seem to think it's the way in which these parents responded that was the "problem".  It might be a lot more complicated that you know.

[myfunnybunch]

 I have three boys.  Let me tell you the differences! ;)  If we had stopped at two kids hubby and I would have thought we were nigh onto the perfect parents and wondered what was wrong with everyone else... then our third came along -

 

:lol:  :lol: :lol:  

 

I have three boys also, but my experience was the opposite.

 

When I said, "Time to pick up, everyone!" and my youngest usually replied cheerfully, "Otay, Momma!" and started picking up.

 

Wait. What?!?!?! :D Boy, was...am...I grateful for him because he helped me to realize that I wasn't such a crummy parent after all.

 

My other two boys are amazing guys, btw, with strong personalities and independent spirits. And youngest ds is more like my dh and really wants to please.(I have two daughters also. One is my stepdd and all of the relationship layers that come along with it; the other has developmental disabilities. Parenting them was a whole different ballpark than parenting the boys. I learned a ton about being flexible, lol. They've turned out to be pleasant loving responsible young adults so we all survived. :) )

[Ausmumof3]

Oh yeah! My no 3 surprises me all the time. I think a big part of it is his language is more developed but it's amazing when you ask a kid to do something and they just do it.

[Bluegoat]

Yeah.  I had a child that wouldn't go for the choice option either.  I gave up on parenting books about that time...  :glare:

 

I've recently come to the conclusion with my youngest that choices often make things worse, especially if there is some sort of time limit.  He gets really worked up and upset about having to make the decision and it stresses everyone out.

 

[Bluegoat]

I am not sure that I would say that people who are really ego-invested in obedience for the sake of it are actually teaching the virtue of obedience.  I would say they are actually abusing it and they will usually create adults who either abuse it themselves or will totally reject it, even when it is a good thing to have. 

 

Properly speaking I don't think that obedience is about the assertion of power, or being unwilling to consider the needs and wants of the person who is supposed to be obedient, or about being unwilling to negotiate, or even about an assumption that the person in charge is in some way infallible.  The context to my mind is that we are all sometimes under obedience, and most of us are going to be in a position to ask for it sometimes too.

 

Ultimately I think it is a question in most cases of a kind of respect, usually respect based on greater knowledge or experience, or being the one who will be responsible for the outcome, or something like that.  It isn't arbitrary, and the decisions it makes will be failures ultimately if they are arbitrary.  It goes both ways too - I don't think I've ever seen a successful system where obedience was expected unless those in charge also have respect for the position of the people under them, and when its institutional obedience that needs to be emphasized institutionally as well.

 

In parenting, expecting obedience, or really teaching it, is based on the parent having a greater ability to make decisions for the good of the child and the family than the child is able to, and perhaps secondarily it is about the parent having responsibility for the welfare of the child and family.  Teaching obedience then has to mean actually teaching that and (at least mostly because we are all human) actually exemplifying it.  Consideration for opinions, feelings, and questions of the children, as well as for their development as they grow up, would be necessary, I would say, in order to actually accomplish that.  And with parenting the goal would be partly to just have a harmonious household, but more importantly to produce adults who can work well with others not only when they are under obedience, but probably more importantly when they are the ones in charge themselves.

[SKL]

I've recently come to the conclusion with my youngest that choices often make things worse, especially if there is some sort of time limit.  He gets really worked up and upset about having to make the decision and it stresses everyone out.

 

 

With mine, I finally just said, "look, we don't have time for this on mornings when you have school or church.  So I'm going to pick your clothes those mornings, period, no discussion.  On days when we aren't in a time crunch, you can pick what you wear.  Make sense?"  They agreed that it made sense.  Having to make a decision in a hurry was causing them stress as well as me.

 

So yeah, parenting "wisdom" isn't fool-proof.

 

[creekland]

FWIW - we talked with middle son last night (he's in San Fran doing a paid internship right now - entering his senior year of college this fall).

 

One thing he said he wanted to be sure to tell us is that his group (of interns) all were talking about their lives growing up - what they did & parents etc.  When discussing things, it hit him just how lucky he was to have us as parents even though we're nowhere near as wealthy as many of his peers (there).  He appreciated the time we invested in our guys - doing tons of things with them from a really young age on to even now when they come home from college.  He knows how much time that took (and money, but more time than money).

 

No matter what your parenting style, I hope every single one of you gets that same sort of thank you at some point.

 

It made our night...

 

And we told him we loved it and wouldn't do anything different (overall) if we had it to do all over again.  Sure, some details would change, but not the time we spent doing oodles of things together.  It was so worth it IMO.

 

Enjoy your younguns!  Time passes way too quickly.  Don't get discouraged by the small stuff.

[leeannpal]

FWIW, I'll still make up Option 3 or 4 if I don't care for the first two.  That trait never really goes away.

 

My daughter is the queen of options 3 and 4. Even now, at 12, I'll say that I have to go to the grocery store and would she like to come with me. Immediately, she will come up with a brand new plan of what we should do that may or may not include a trip to the grocery store. Sometimes, her idea is better, and we roll with that, but other times, I just need to get something done quickly. At those times, we usually end up arguing because she is not yet old enough to really understand the responsibilities of adults.

 

Creekland, I've been a middle and high school teacher for nearly 20 years. There is no doubt that my time in the classroom has affected my parenting.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I am not sure that I would say that people who are really ego-invested in obedience for the sake of it are actually teaching the virtue of obedience.  I would say they are actually abusing it and they will usually create adults who either abuse it themselves or will totally reject it, even when it is a good thing to have. 

 

I agree.  I have encountered this several times though.  Growing up a neighbor in the building had a son who lived in his bedroom.  He was always in trouble.  She justified locking him in his room most hours of the day by him being disobedient.  It was an excuse for her to not parent and to get him out of her hair because she didn't want a child anyway.  She would try to convince everyone and herself otherwise, but even me being a kid at the time could see that.  It was pretty heartbreaking really. 

 

I don't assume most people here are like that. 

[Zinnia]

Having children has been eye-opening for me.  I'm the type of person that never comes up with options 3 or 4.  I'm a bit baffled at those that do.  And yet, I gave birth to 3 of them (I have one angel child that sees the world as I do).  :D  My brother, who has never met an authority figure he doesn't want to question, has a small, compliant child that goes with the flow. 

Life is just not fair some times.

[creekland]

At those times, we usually end up arguing because she is not yet old enough to really understand the responsibilities of adults.

 

Creekland, I've been a middle and high school teacher for nearly 20 years. There is no doubt that my time in the classroom has affected my parenting.

 

I think anyone expecting family members to never argue is a little bit unrealistic.  We're all different humans and have our good and bad moods, etc.

 

It's far easier for me never to lose my temper at school because, if nothing else, I send the little darlings on to their next class at a certain time.

 

My classroom experiences have definitely affected my parenting decisions. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Having children has been eye-opening for me.  I'm the type of person that never comes up with options 3 or 4.  I'm a bit baffled at those that do.  And yet, I gave birth to 3 of them (I have one angel child that sees the world as I do).  :D  My brother, who has never met an authority figure he doesn't want to question, has a small, compliant child that goes with the flow. 

 

Life is just not fair some times.

 

This is so true.  Kids do not come out ready to be molded by you.  LOL  They are who they are at the end of the day.  I'd like to take credit for the good (and am willing to take credit for the not so good), but I don't think I really can.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Every single class I've taught in public schools, whether elementary, middle school or high school, have always ended up with the kids calling me "Mom".   One class I had (when I was single) gave me a Mother's Day corsage.  I wore it with pride!  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I dislike anyone but my kids calling me mom.  I don't see myself as this momly type that is momly towards everyone.  I'm really not.

 

 

[Scarlett]

I did a little experiment with my son yesterday....this thread on my mind.

 

I had to clean my boss's very large house 6500 SF. It really really wears me out when I try to het most of it done in one day. I took him with me and told him I needed him to help me the last hour or so. When it came time for him to help he was unpleasant to say the least..wanted to keep doing his drivers Ed course he was working on.

 

I just looked at him. Then I said, "what do you want to do son?" He said he wanted to keep working on his course. So I said ok, and I went on to finish it all myself.

 

Then we got home and I was exhausted. It was after 5. He ran to his computer because a friend of his had some free time to play portal. I rested for an hour and then got up and started getting supper ready. After he had been playing for an hour and a half I told him I need his help in the kitchen. He balked. I said, now please. He stomps in and begins putting away the dishes, complaining because he just wanted to play Portal with Friend and he NEVER gets to......

 

I said, "get out of my kitchen. Go do what you want." By this point I was irritated at him I just wanted him away from me. But I just left him to do what he wanted. You know like apparently some parents handle their teens. Dh and I ate supper, I put supper away.....finally about 9:00 ds comes in and says are we going to have supper? Now mind you, his computer is in view of the kitchen. That is just how oblivious he is. I told him supper was long over. He got into the fridge and made himself a plate.

 

So he goes back to his computer. At 9:30 I head to bed and tel him I am going to sleep don't be talking. At 10:30 I am woken up to his loud laughter. Dh gets up and handles it. I hear ds apologizing. At midnight I get up and ds is still on the computer. By now I've had enough of this experiment and tell him to get in bed.

 

So tell me....you parents who dont expect obedience out of your children...actually even those of you who do...how would you deal with a kid like this?

[SparklyUnicorn]

I did a little experiment with my son yesterday....this thread on my mind.

 

I had to clean my boss's very large house 6500 SF. It really really wears me out when I try to het most of it done in one day. I took him with me and told him I needed him to help me the last hour or so. When it came time for him to help he was unpleasant to say the least..wanted to keep doing his drivers Ed course he was working on.

 

I just looked at him. Then I said, "what do you want to do son?" He said he wanted to keep working on his course. So I said ok, and I went on to finish it all myself.

 

Then we got home and I was exhausted. It was after 5. He ran to his computer because a friend of his had some free time to play portal. I rested for an hour and then got up and started getting supper ready. After he had been playing for an hour and a half I told him I need his help in the kitchen. He balked. I said, now please. He stomps in and begins putting away the dishes, complaining because he just wanted to play Portal with Friend and he NEVER gets to......

 

I said, "get out of my kitchen. Go do what you want." By this point I was irritated at him I just wanted him away from me. But I just left him to do what he wanted. You know like apparently some parents handle their teens. Dh and I ate supper, I put supper away.....finally about 9:00 ds comes in and says are we going to have supper? Now mind you, his computer is in view of the kitchen. That is just how oblivious he is. I told him supper was long over. He got into the fridge and made himself a plate.

 

So he goes back to his computer. At 9:30 I head to bed and tel him I am going to sleep don't be talking. At 10:30 I am woken up to his loud laughter. Dh gets up and handles it. I hear ds apologizing. At midnight I get up and ds is still on the computer. By now I've had enough of this experiment and tell him to get in bed.

 

So tell me....you parents who dont expect obedience out of your children...actually even those of you who do...how would you deal with a kid like this?

 

Can't gather any information after 1 day behaving in a way you never behave.

 

But either way, I never said you should do things my way.  You've done things your way and that is what he is used to.  I've done things my way and that is what my kids are used to.  If I decided to try your way for a day, I'd probably walk away frustrated with the results.

 

 

 

[Scarlett]

Can't gather any information after 1 day behaving in a way you never behave.

 

But either way, I never said you should do things my way. You've done things your way and that is what he is used to. I've done things my way and that is what my kids are used to. If I decided to try your way for a day, I'd probably walk away frustrated with the results.

 

 

 

Maybe you are hearing snark where there is none on my part. Am sincerely interested on how people handle a kid who will always do what he wants if given a choice.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Maybe you are hearing snark where there is none on my part. Am sincerely interested on how people handle a kid who will always do what he wants if given a choice.

 

No no..not at all regarding the snark.

 

I think you misunderstood the whole choice thing.  I don't really give my kids a choice in the sense you are thinking.  If I need the dishwasher emptied I ask for it to be emptied.  If my kid asks if he can finish something up and that's not a problem I say ok.  If I need it done immediately, I say I really need this done now and I'd appreciate it done now.  So he comes and does it.

 

I don't say, "Empty the dishwasher if you feel like it." 

Who the heck feels like doing that ever? 

[Caroline]

No no..not at all regarding the snark.

 

I think you misunderstood the whole choice thing.  I don't really give my kids a choice in the sense you are thinking.  If I need the dishwasher emptied I ask for it to be emptied.  If my kid asks if he can finish something up and that's not a problem I say ok.  If I need it done immediately, I say I really need this done now and I'd appreciate it done now.  So he comes and does it.

 

I don't say, "Empty the dishwasher if you feel like it." 

Who the heck feels like doing that ever? 

 

 

Exactly. My kids know they have to clean up the kitchen after dinner. However, they also like to play outside after dinner. So immediately following dinner, they clear the table and put the leftover food away. Then they go fishing, or play man hunt, or whatever it is they want to do outside. When they come in for the night, they wash the dishes, vacuum the kitchen and dining room, wipe down all the surfaces, etc. Then, the last one to go to bed sets the dishwasher to run in the middle of the night. They have a choice of when they want to clean the kitchen, but they know they will clean the kitchen. So if they are spending the night at a friend's house, the kitchen is cleaned before they leave. Or they can trade off with a sibling--one will do it all tonight and the other will do it all tomorrow night. But the kitchen always get cleaned. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

If my kid complains while doing it, I either ignore it or say, "Yeah I know, this stuff is not fun, I don't like it either."   And that is that.  He is right.  Emptying the dishwasher is not fun.  I hate emptying the dishwasher which is in large part why it has become his task if I'm being honest. LOL

 

 

[Scarlett]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

That sounds immensely frustrating and exhausting.

 

 

I'd have no problems doing either of the following things. OK, so he didn't want to help you out. When you get home, after all that hard work, you're too exhausted to make dinner. Oh, he doesn't wanna help? Well, you don't want to make dinner either. He can make himself a sandwich or get some fruit if he really gets hungry.

 

I'd probably tell him "Come on son, I could do with some help here. I'll help you with your stuff afterwards," first, but if that didn't work I'd have no problem doing what I described above, probably because I'd legitimately be too tired to cook.

 

I honestly don't think anyone suggested that teens should just be allowed to do whatever they want. Not being into "obedience" doesn't mean that. To be fair, your son is probably at least as tall as you are and you'd have a hard time physically forcing him to help you. Agreements have to be based on something other than that. I'd communicate that I expected help, because that's what family does: help each other.

 

My friend's teen son (who lives with us) sometimes does stuff like this. Like, he doesn't want to get off the computer to allow someone else to do work or homework on it. That ain't fair. I ask him nicely a few times, when his mom isn't around. Then I tell him he's being an a** and needs to get off. If that doesn't work, I pull the plug (that laptop's battery is broken, so it shuts down if I do that). I hand the laptop to the person who actually needs it, boy grumbles and goes to read a book.

He is 6'3 but I can absolutely make him. It is the attitude I cant handle.

 

I would have not cooked supper, but there is my husband who also worked hard all day and needed food.

 

I took on an office cleaning job for him. It takes the two of us about an hour once a week. I think I will no longer help him. I will use that time to catch up on my reading while I wait for him.

 

Also he wants me to run him all over creation and invite people over constantly.....um no. Too tired.

 

But I want to have a discussion with him about how these measures are not manipulation ( that is his favorite thing to accuse me of lately) but rather actual straightforward consequences to his lack of cooperation and help with household chores.

[SparklyUnicorn]

He is 6'3 but I can absolutely make him.

 

 

I don't know what to make of a statement like this.  What if my husband said he could absolutely make me do something?  I'm not his property. 

[Scarlett]

I don't know what to make of a statement like this. What if my husband said he could absolutely make me do something? I'm not his property.

I believe there is a very real difference in a parent/child relationship vs spouse/ spouse. I am legally and morally responsible for my 15 yo and therefore I have authority over him.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Plus even if I could take my hands and place them on my kid's arms and move them and make them pick stuff up and move them some more...uhhhh I don't know what the point of that would be.

 

It's not manipulation to ask for stuff no..not at all.  It's manipulation to MAKE someone no matter to what extreme you have to take that.

 

I'm thinking maybe the wording was not what was intended. 

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I make my kids do things by threatening to sit on them.

 

It usually works. :)

 

I don't think that would work for me.  I'm not very big for one thing.  LOL

[mommymilkies]

I did a little experiment with my son yesterday....this thread on my mind.

 

I had to clean my boss's very large house 6500 SF. It really really wears me out when I try to het most of it done in one day. I took him with me and told him I needed him to help me the last hour or so. When it came time for him to help he was unpleasant to say the least..wanted to keep doing his drivers Ed course he was working on.

 

I just looked at him. Then I said, "what do you want to do son?" He said he wanted to keep working on his course. So I said ok, and I went on to finish it all myself.

 

Then we got home and I was exhausted. It was after 5. He ran to his computer because a friend of his had some free time to play portal. I rested for an hour and then got up and started getting supper ready. After he had been playing for an hour and a half I told him I need his help in the kitchen. He balked. I said, now please. He stomps in and begins putting away the dishes, complaining because he just wanted to play Portal with Friend and he NEVER gets to......

 

I said, "get out of my kitchen. Go do what you want." By this point I was irritated at him I just wanted him away from me. But I just left him to do what he wanted. You know like apparently some parents handle their teens. Dh and I ate supper, I put supper away.....finally about 9:00 ds comes in and says are we going to have supper? Now mind you, his computer is in view of the kitchen. That is just how oblivious he is. I told him supper was long over. He got into the fridge and made himself a plate.

 

So he goes back to his computer. At 9:30 I head to bed and tel him I am going to sleep don't be talking. At 10:30 I am woken up to his loud laughter. Dh gets up and handles it. I hear ds apologizing. At midnight I get up and ds is still on the computer. By now I've had enough of this experiment and tell him to get in bed.

 

So tell me....you parents who dont expect obedience out of your children...actually even those of you who do...how would you deal with a kid like this?

Well, why couldn't he work on his coursework?  To me, that would come first. However, once he was there, if the coursework could wait, I wouldn't have just said "Fine, do whatever you want."  I'm not the obedience type but I would explain why it was important and tell him to get on with it.  When you start something, you finish it.  Though I'm unclear why he was there to begin with. The last part sounds pretty normal kid/teen stuff.  Heck, even I would rather play a game than do the dishwasher. You see what you did here was let him use a whine and a stomp to get what he wants.  What you're teaching him is that if he pouts, he doesn't have to be responsible.  That doesn't fly here.  Sometimes I bribe for big housework that's really *my* responsibility, but my kids have jobs and they know if they don't do those jobs, we all suffer, so they've learned empathy (or at least not to complain to me about it too much). 

[Lady Florida.]

 

Then we got home and I was exhausted. It was after 5. He ran to his computer because a friend of his had some free time to play portal. I rested for an hour and then got up and started getting supper ready. After he had been playing for an hour and a half I told him I need his help in the kitchen. He balked. I said, now please. He stomps in and begins putting away the dishes, complaining because he just wanted to play Portal with Friend and he NEVER gets to......

 

I said, "get out of my kitchen. Go do what you want." By this point I was irritated at him I just wanted him away from me. But I just left him to do what he wanted. You know like apparently some parents handle their teens. Dh and I ate supper, I put supper away.....finally about 9:00 ds comes in and says are we going to have supper? Now mind you, his computer is in view of the kitchen. That is just how oblivious he is. I told him supper was long over. He got into the fridge and made himself a plate.

 

 

He was putting the dishes away though right? You just didn't want to hear him complain? I don't think any of us are saying we have perfect kids or that they happily do everything they're asked/told to do. Mine will sometimes complain while he does stuff too, depending on what he was pulled away from. My attitude is, "You want to whine and complain while you do it? Fine. I don't care, as long as you get it done.". If I don't want to hear him or be around his attitude I'll go in another room until he's done. By sending him away because you didn't want to hear him whine, you reinforced the whining. Yes, that (reinforcement) works on people no matter how old they are.

 

I know in that situation you couldn't walk away because you were trying to get supper going while he was putting dishes away, but even if I couldn't walk away I'd ignore it. Maybe he's complaining so you'll send him off or maybe he just needs to vent his frustration at what he thinks is unfair, even though he's actually doing what he was told to do. Either way, I refuse to take it personally.

[mommymilkies]

I make my kids do things by threatening to sit on them.

 

It usually works. :)

I threatened to throw one into the sewer yesterday.  She giggled.  We use a lot of ridiculous idle threats, too.  They know we're joking. ;)