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Parenting Spoiled Children (article)


Runningmom80
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Even my four year old has chores. I'm a mean mom :lol:

 

But seriously, while we require they work with us to make the household run and to contribute as family members, they are still children and don't take over the jobs of mommy and daddy. Wiping a table and folding some laundry is good for them, but we try to balance basic daily chores and a cheerful attitude with the joys of being little and free of pressing responsibilities. It's worked so far. Fingers crossed!

 

Raising brats is one of my biggest fears, but I think we have avoided that. I get compliments all the time on how pleasant my kids are and how respectful and helpful - and that's when I'm not there hovering. I just keep hoping and praying whatever is working will continue to work and we will luck out and make it to adulthood with them being decent human beings ;)

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Who is this "we" the author is speaking of? It isn't me or any of my friends or even to the best of my knowledge, my acquaintances.

Not my group, either, but I've seen families and kids like this in our area. It is a different family culture than most homeschooling mamas cultivate, I think.

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You know, there is something to be said for the Boys and Girls Clubs and the Y - I attended the former for awhile and there was a fairly strong emphasis on teamwork, compassion, good sportsmanship, service, and kindness. I know the Y is similar. Most community programs for kids seem to be staffed with folks who care very much that the children come away with more than just babysitting or entertainment.

 

This isn't even a primarily upper class affliction. It seems to be a 'make sure our kids never struggle for anything' issue, instead. Borne out of good intentions by the parents but with unintended consequences.

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My husband and I have struggled financially more than any of our friends. It used to sadden me, but as time went on I realized that our lives were simpler and our children were happier than theirs. Stuff and money can be so stressful. I'm grateful to not have had the opportunity to accidentally raise entitled children. I feel the same way about not being able to drive. Everyone feels sorry for me but me. It forces a simpler and more peaceful lifestyle.

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Who is this "we" the author is speaking of?  It isn't me or any of my friends or even to the best of my knowledge, my acquaintances.   

 

It's the latest version of the "Kids these days" rant. Every generation ignores this rant from the older generation, then in time comes to lament the fact that the younger generation never listens. All the while, no one ever suspects that they too were annoying in their youth, or are becoming crotchety old people in turn. 

 

My kids aren't spoiled, they don't get bribes, they don't have mean parents, they work hard, they are considerate, responsible, conscientious, as well as silly, foolhardy, inexperienced. Also, they don't experience the same level of shame, aggression threat, or negligence they might have come to expect 40, 80, or 100 years ago for the "crime" of being inconvenient. I find my kids are more or less like their friends, classmates, neighbors, and peers. 

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Who is this "we" the author is speaking of?  It isn't me or any of my friends or even to the best of my knowledge, my acquaintances.   

 

Exactly.  Stop speaking for me or claiming I am ruining my kids.

 

Up there with the parenting books. 

 

If I roll my eyes any harder, they will be looking at the back of my head!!

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I do not recognize that dynamic in any families that we're close to (most of whom have means) and that's probably why we're close. My kids get a dollar per tooth, do a 'family' chore everyday, and have plenty of free play time. I am a parent not a playmate. If we go to toys-r-us to buy another child's birthday present, my kids may point out things they like or want (not very subtle hints either) but we leave without those items and there are no tantrums. This article reminds me more of my sister's 1980s/90s cohort than my kids'.

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It's the latest version of the "Kids these days" rant. Every generation ignores this rant from the older generation, then in time comes to lament the fact that the younger generation never listens. All the while, no one ever suspects that they too were annoying in their youth, or are becoming crotchety old people in turn.

 

My kids aren't spoiled, they don't get bribes, they don't have mean parents, they work hard, they are considerate, responsible, conscientious, as well as silly, foolhardy, inexperienced. Also, they don't experience the same level of shame, aggression threat, or negligence they might have come to expect 40, 80, or 100 years ago for the "crime" of being inconvenient. I find my kids are more or less like their friends, classmates, neighbors, and peers.

Is this regional? I find half the kids in ballet and piano with my children are not with families I enjoy spending time with. The kids are products of the adults and unpleasantly bratty. Their parents are a bit... Mr. and Mrs Jones. And yet some activities like our swim classes and even horse camp were filled with delightful families and children. And homeschool co op includes dozens of families we genuinely enjoy spending time with, even though we vary strongly in religion, SES, and personality. They're just a good and varied bunch.

 

Is it that some activities attract weirdo obsessive parents and some don't?

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Is this regional? I find half the kids in ballet and piano with my children are not with families I enjoy spending time with. The kids are products of the adults and unpleasantly bratty. Their parents are a bit... Mr. and Mrs Jones. And yet some activities like our swim classes and even horse camp were filled with delightful families and children. And homeschool co op includes dozens of families we genuinely enjoy spending time with, even though we vary strongly in religion, SES, and personality. They're just a good and varied bunch.

 

Is it that some activities attract weirdo obsessive parents and some don't?

 

All in all, kids are no more or less "bad" than any generation. Old fingers wagging in young faces is nothing new, even if the argument takes on different examples. 

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I do think this generation of kids is different because of the technology available, and living in an age of abundance. Toys have never been cheaper. It's easy for parents to go overboard, IMO. Of course no one here does.... ;)

 

Every generation has different circumstances to address. My point is our kids are no more or less "bad" than kids of previous generation, just like we weren't more "bad" than the generation that preceded us. That article is full of self-righteous moralizing and blaming, and I objected to that. It's a tired old trope that breaks down rather easily. 

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I agree with most  of the article. I've seen it and been guilty of some of it. However, this quote at the end was very interesting to me.   "The truth is that we have good kids who mean well and are sure to make this world a much better place. ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s their moms and dads who could use a little fine-tuning." 

 

Isn't' this the same attitude the author is lamenting? We feel the need to give our kids everything and end up hurting them because of it. But it's only the parents who need the fine tuning?

 

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You don't think parenting is different for this generation? Everything is so kid-centric now, and the pressure has to be more than my mom experienced.

 

I get what you're saying that every generation complains about the next, but I do think we face unique challenges as parents to this next generation as far as reigning in expectations and instilling work ethic. (I especially agreed with the point about over scheduled kids not even having time to do chores.)

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I agree with most of the article. I've seen it and been guilty of some of it. However, this quote at the end was very interesting to me. "The truth is that we have good kids who mean well and are sure to make this world a much better place. ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s their moms and dads who could use a little fine-tuning."

 

Isn't' this the same attitude the author is lamenting? We feel the need to give our kids everything and end up hurting them because of it. But it's only the parents who need the fine tuning?

Yeah she lost me there. It was a sloppy way to end the article.

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There have, of course, always been spoiled kids in any generation:  Little Lord Fauntleroy anyone?  I am not a perfect parent and my kids (teens now) have never been perfect.  I've asked for parenting advice here on this board over the years.  But. . . I don't think my kids are spoiled and they are turning out to be well spoken, well adjusted young people who still aren't perfect and still at times make me frustrated, just as I used to make my parents frustrated at times.  Perhaps my peer group tends to not have spoiled kids either because it is self selecting to a large degree.  I would not be able to tolerate spending much time around super spoiled kids.  I've known some of course, over the years, both in my extended family and out and about.  I don't spend time with those people.  I don't think that toys themselves make kids spoiled.  Whining and getting your way make you spoiled.  

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What kind of chores are they supposed to have time for?

Depends on the age I guess? Does a teen in school all day who plays a sport and has lots of homework from AP classes have time to mow the lawn? Do the dinner dishes? I honestly don't know, but I can see how those things aren't required because of so many other commitments.

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You don't think parenting is different for this generation? Everything is so kid-centric now, and the pressure has to be more than my mom experienced.

 

Of course parenting is different for this generation. When I was a kid, parenting was different than when my parents were kids. When I was a kid, we saw footage of battles in Vietnam on the nightly news, not in the movie theaters like when my parents were kids. My parents' generation worried about the influence of heavy metal but apparently didn't think twice about violence and aggression discussed and televised on the nightly news in the livingroom every night before dinner. When my parents were kids, soldiers from WWII were home, making families, creating jobs, and wouldn't you know it, without the fear of war and economic collapse, people stopped going to church. This was no big deal for my parents, but for their parents' generation, it was the beginning of the end. Every generation suffers outspoken proponents who lament the culture as they recall it from their youths is the "moral" culture, and everything that comes after is corrupt. 

 

Everyone thinks the young generation doesn't "get it," whatever "it" is, and are somehow morally bankrupt because of it, but those who yell at the clouds like that don't seem to consider the problems younger generations face are often consequences of solutions the older generations found to previous, unacceptable problems. It's not like parents today woke up one morning and decided to bribe and spoil their kids. I suspect it's more likely to have been a result of growing up neglected or ignored for not being the 10% jocks/hero in school, or growing up being slapped for not getting in the car quickly, or bullied into participation in activities that weren't important to them. 

 

So under which generation did the floor drop out again? Our kids' generation, or our generation, because according to our parents' generation, our generation was morally bankrupt for growing up in listening to Ozzy Osborne records. Or was it our grandparents' generation? The generation that broke up the American family by encouraging women and people of color to get higher degrees of education simply because they wanted to be doctors and lawyers and CEO's and other privileges reserved for WASP men, and not be forced into conventional social roles? Do you know what I mean? Every generation pushes the envelop of the culture to which they are born, but that's not necessarily bad. It's just... different.

 

I get what you're saying that every generation complains about the next, but I do think we face unique challenges as parents to this next generation as far as reigning in expectations and instilling work ethic. (I especially agreed with the point about over scheduled kids not even having time to do chores.)

 

No doubt we have unique challenges. My kids are older now, and I assume they're older than yours. You'll face challenges to which I cannot relate. I never had to navigate the pros and cons of a preschooler using an iPad. But then, you probably wouldn't think to physically punish a child with autism just because they don't comply to social expectations in a convenient way, or harass and bully a beat the crap out of a teen for being gay. I wouldn't put my kids in my generation to save my life, they'd have been tortured and abused cruelly for things we now take for granted to be normal. So yeah, there will be different challenges, but it's not like everything was peachy before, and it's not like today's parents of young children started at Square One and then mucked it all up in a couple years. 

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There have been lots of threads on here over the years on chores - what chores for what ages, how many chores, how well should chores be done (there is one on that topic right now), should you pay for some chores that go "above and beyond".  I see articles on chores in Parenting magazine, and other magazines of that type when I'm sitting in the doctor's office, so the idea of chores is still alive and well.

 

There have also been lots of threads on minimalism including toys.  I personally  am not a minimalist and my kids had tons of very inexpensive toys from thrift shops.  It made things cluttered around here but they were very creative in how they combined them.  I see this as a personality and perhaps a priority issue.  

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I really disliked the author of this article.  "Um, what about simply nurturing a love of the sport the old-fashioned way? Emphasizing the importance of dedication, hard work, and persistence? The concept of intrinsic motivation?" Um, why do write sound like Snotty McJudgerson? Do you teach your kids to be smug like yourself?

 

I think I read this same article 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago. Complaints about "the cult of self esteem" is nothing new.  It's just clickbait.

 

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Who is this "we" the author is speaking of?  It isn't me or any of my friends or even to the best of my knowledge, my acquaintances.   

 

Seriously, I haven't read half the article yet and I don't know who "we" is but I keep thinking, "Well then you should stop!" No one in my circle of families parents like this. If they did, I would have heard about it because everyone else would have been shocked. ;)

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 consumerism and growth are pushed onto us relentlessly - the problem is systemic, not individual.

 

Right? The culture through which young parents are navigating is the culture that has developed over generations. Class wars didn't change just because we as a nation stopped enslaving people for cheap labor. We found cheap labor through children, then overseas, and now through prison labor. Building a cheaper mousetrap is integral to the standard of living we demand. How can we blame people for playing the game they've been raised in, raised to believe in? 

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Of course parenting is different for this generation. When I was a kid, parenting was different than when my parents were kids. When I was a kid, we saw footage of battles in Vietnam on the nightly news, not in the movie theaters like when my parents were kids. My parents' generation worried about the influence of heavy metal but apparently didn't think twice about violence and aggression discussed and televised on the nightly news in the livingroom every night before dinner. When my parents were kids, soldiers from WWII were home, making families, creating jobs, and wouldn't you know it, without the fear of war and economic collapse, people stopped going to church. This was no big deal for my parents, but for their parents' generation, it was the beginning of the end. Every generation suffers outspoken proponents who lament the culture as they recall it from their youths is the "moral" culture, and everything that comes after is corrupt. 

 

Everyone thinks the young generation doesn't "get it," whatever "it" is, and are somehow morally bankrupt because of it, but those who yell at the clouds like that don't seem to consider the problems younger generations face are often consequences of solutions the older generations found to previous, unacceptable problems. It's not like parents today woke up one morning and decided to bribe and spoil their kids. I suspect it's more likely to have been a result of growing up neglected or ignored for not being the 10% jocks/hero in school, or growing up being slapped for not getting in the car quickly, or bullied into participation in activities that weren't important to them. 

 

So under which generation did the floor drop out again? Our kids' generation, or our generation, because according to our parents' generation, our generation was morally bankrupt for growing up in listening to Ozzy Osborne records. Or was it our grandparents' generation? The generation that broke up the American family by encouraging women and people of color to get higher degrees of education simply because they wanted to be doctors and lawyers and CEO's and other privileges reserved for WASP men, and not be forced into conventional social roles? Do you know what I mean? Every generation pushes the envelop of the culture to which they are born, but that's not necessarily bad. It's just... different.

 

 

No doubt we have unique challenges. My kids are older now, and I assume they're older than yours. You'll face challenges to which I cannot relate. I never had to navigate the pros and cons of a preschooler using an iPad. But then, you probably wouldn't think to physically punish a child with autism just because they don't comply to social expectations in a convenient way, or harass and bully a beat the crap out of a teen for being gay. I wouldn't put my kids in my generation to save my life, they'd have been tortured and abused cruelly for things we now take for granted to be normal. So yeah, there will be different challenges, but it's not like everything was peachy before, and it's not like today's parents of young children started at Square One and then mucked it all up in a couple years. 

 

I think I just read it differently.  I didn't read it as "kids these days are morally bankrupt."  I read it as, "all of this recent focus on children being happy and having high self-esteem may be backfiring.  Maybe we over-corrected?"

 

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Depends on the age I guess? Does a teen in school all day who plays a sport and has lots of homework from AP classes have time to mow the lawn? Do the dinner dishes? I honestly don't know, but I can see how those things aren't required because of so many other commitments.

 

No, but neither did I and I didn't do all that. 

 

Except for my mother using me randomly to clean up after her when I was an adult, my parents didn't really make me do chores.  There wasn't a whole lot that needed to be done for one thing.  It was mostly about taking care of your own stuff.  I did my own laundry and ironing and that sort of thing.

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I think I just read it differently.  I didn't read it as "kids these days are morally bankrupt."  I read it as, "all of this recent focus on children being happy and having high self-esteem may be backfiring.  Maybe we over-corrected?"

 

 

Is signing them up for 100 extracurricular things about making them happy though?

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Is signing them up for 100 extracurricular things about making them happy though?

 

I think ultimately, yes.  It's about "being successful," no? 

 

I bet for some parents it is them living through their children, but for lots it's in attempts to guarantee their children's future.  (Not saying this is the right way to do it, but I see it in my circles.)

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No, but neither did I and I didn't do all that. 

 

Except for my mother using me randomly to clean up after her when I was an adult, my parents didn't really make me do chores.  There wasn't a whole lot that needed to be done for one thing.  It was mostly about taking care of your own stuff.  I did my own laundry and ironing and that sort of thing.

 

I had daily chores.  My step-mom implemented them, which is a whole other story that probably only my therapist is interested in. :lol:

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I think I just read it differently.  I didn't read it as "kids these days are morally bankrupt."  I read it as, "all of this recent focus on children being happy and having high self-esteem may be backfiring.  Maybe we over-corrected?"

 

 

The article is entitled "Spoiled Rotten." Not just "spoiled," but "rotten." Of course that's tongue in cheek, but the image of being rotten is the moral backdrop against which the author wants the reader to interpret the information. And the "information" is as telling as the title. The author cherry picks whatever frustrating imagery works to justify yelling at kids to keep of her lawn. 

 

Phrases like "I looked at him in disbelief," and "Um, what about simply nurturing a love of the sport the old-fashioned way?" show an obvious [and tiring] agenda. Kids These Days are not only spoiled, they're lazy, expect bribes, and don't recognize authority. These are absolutely moral judgements, and poorly developed ones at that. In fact, I think it shows more moral degradation of the author than of the kids she knows. How a person can ignore the increasingly tolerant, compassionate, responsible, globally minded generation because she's familiar with the privileged few, suggests to me a lack of interest, much less compassion for the increasing number of people getting squeezed out of the middle class and into poverty. Poor little upper-middle-class suburban soccer mom watches as kids get what she didn't get as a child. I have no sympathy for her "plight." 

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I think ultimately, yes.  It's about "being successful," no? 

 

I bet for some parents it is them living through their children, but for lots it's in attempts to guarantee their children's future.  (Not saying this is the right way to do it, but I see it in my circles.)

 

But if you have to bribe them to try, how is that making them happy and being successful.

No, I don't think it really is about that.  I get wanting to give our kids opportunities.  I don't think it needs to be in the form of forcing a bunch of stuff they don't want.

 

I'm not even against the idea of bribery in the right circumstances.  I call it incentives.  But these tend to be things where there is no apparent obvious incentive to them.

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I think ultimately, yes.  It's about "being successful," no? 

 

No. What makes you think it is? I would suggest it's not about "being successful" to a younger generation that watches how success is empty when problems like sexual molestation is ignored, when not having enough food in the house is a constant reality, when medical care for oneself or loved ones is unobtainable. We live in a capitalistic society, so of course making money is going to be reflected in the ideologies, but kids are increasingly rejecting the idea that stepping on the heads of others justifies personal gains. We're watching younger generations progress where previous generations were afraid or unable to go. More power to 'em. They'll need as much creativity and compassion as humanity can must as they'll have to figure a way to navigate through the horror of privatization of prisons, government spying, and corporate-oligarchy our generation is leaving them. 

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No. What makes you think it is? I would suggest it's not about "being successful" to a younger generation that watches how success is empty when problems like sexual molestation is ignored, when not having enough food in the house is a constant reality, when medical care for oneself or loved ones is unobtainable. We live in a capitalistic society, so of course making money is going to be reflected in the ideologies, but kids are increasingly rejecting the idea that stepping on the heads of others justifies personal gains. We're watching younger generations progress where previous generations were afraid or unable to go. More power to 'em. They'll need as much creativity and compassion as humanity can must as they'll have to figure a way to navigate through the horror of privatization of prisons, government spying, and corporate-oligarchy our generation is leaving them. 

 

I'm not following your trajectory here. I was just answering Sparkly's question about why parents are putting their kids into so many activities.  I don't think parents who overschedule their kids are doing so to teach them humanity so they can solve the moral dilemmas of our time. I think they are doing it so their kids have lots to put in their college applications.

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I think having an over abundance of anything has great potential to cause ambivalence as opposed to gratitude.

People say that all the time, but I think that ultimately it's not the abundance of stuff that causes a problem. The parents' attitude is what causes the problem.

 

If a kid has a sense of entitlement, it's probably not because he has a lot of stuff, but because his parents have given him that sense of entitlement and most likely exhibit the same obnoxious behaviors themselves.

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I quit reading in the very beginning. I'm tired of hearing over and over that I can't be a friend and a parent to my dds. It's not true. I can sympathize with them. I can understand what they are feeling and where they are coming from. I can talk to my teen dds about love interests, school, clothes, movies, why they have issues with certain friends, etc. and I can still be a parent. I can still tell them when they've screwed up and have them correct their attitudes/behaviors. I'm so glad my own parents didn't buy into that nonsense.

 

My dds can also be busy and help out around the house. They might not do chores or help every day but neither do I. If they have a busy week with school and activities, it's no big deal. During the weekend, they can catch up on laundry, cleaning their room, or helping with other chores. They may even go more than a week or weekend without doing much around the house but I think it all evens out in the end because there are times when I or dh can't keep up with things as well.

 

I feel we do quite a bit for our dds but they rarely actually ask for anything. Oldest is actually the most frugal person I know and also the first to offer to help out others. Having things and not being required to do daily chores means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

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Granted, we don't live in a super rich area, but I've never heard of parents around here paying kids for goals etc. in sports.  My kids have been in some sports but perhaps we missed the lucrative ones?

 

I've heard of kids getting stickers for doing chores or for certain behaviors.  Sometimes those sticker charts might be traded in at the end of the week or month for an ice cream cone.  Schools do this too.  I do this on some specific things that needed some outside incentive.  My teens haven't seemed to be ruined from the experience.

 

A lot of kids have the gimmes.  You tell them no.  Sometimes you might tell them yes if they've been well behaved and it's a nice day for an ice cream cone.  

 

Some parents do act like their kid's bffs and don't ever tell them "no".  But is it an epidemic?  I don't think so.  At least not in my area.  Though like I said, we all tend to select friends who parent with similar values and methods, even if there are small differences.

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I didn't see that the author was saying this generation of kids is more bad than the last.  But I do see a lot of spoiled behaviour, entitlement, the expectation to earn top dollar at a entry level position or the refusal to even take an entry level position assuming they deserve a big wig roll.  I see it in the college student we have come in for practicums, in fact 1 last term lamented to me about the fact we were hiring a new staff in our daycare and that position should have been his (guaranteed he would never be hired by us).  I see it in the kids I watch daily, they have more gadgets and toys than time with their parents, they think if they stomp their foot and scream they will get what they want, and from their parents they often do.  I do not see it as a generation of bad kids, I do see it as a product of this push for "positive self esteem" and helicopter parenting.  We have discussed this on the hive before, about helicopter parenting right through college and parents wanting to change their child's grades etc.  It is not about being a mean parent, it is about teaching responsibility.  And while we on this site tend to already lean that way, just like we lean towards a solid education that is not the case everywhere.  

Way back when my teens were in ps the school wanted to pass my ds16 from grade 2 into grade 3.  He could not do the work, was still at a grade 1 level in most things, he was suicidal and they refused to hold him back saying "it would hurt his self esteem to not promote him with the rest of the class"  Like that is supposed to help him?  Or how about medals, and trophies and ribbons for just showing up to the game rather than because you won.  Out here teachers are not allowed to use red pens or put X's on work, in fact they are not allowed to fail a child on an assignment at all.  If the child does not hand in their home work they hare giving opportunity after opportunity to hand it in late and if they don't, they get an incomplete NOT and F.  And incomplete does not affect their grade and F does.  The list goes on.

I feel a large portion of kids I see daily have more freedom (especially where technology is concerned) and less responsibility than ever before, with parents who seem scared to say No to them. 

Now of course not every family is like that, but it is becoming a bigger concern as these kids are growing up and heading into the work force, lacking work ethic, and expecting to have everything their parents have, right out of the gate rather than understanding their parents worked their tails off, moving up the ranks, earning raises etc over many years to get to where they are. Or these kids growing up and heading into college expecting to pass their courses just by showing up and then having mommy and daddy call the professor to cuss them out for junior getting a low grade etc.  

I have found it getting challenging to expose our kids to things like volunteer opportunities or paid work at a reasonable age.  Due to insurance and litigation fears many places do not allow kids younger that 14-16 to come and do any work for them.  Often by that time it is too late.  Nipping that sense of entitlement needs to start at a young age.  Of course no one wants to raise a spoiled kid, it starts off with pure intentions of wanting to do what is right for your little one, and over time it morphs into something else.  I think articles like this one are a good way for parents to self evaluate if they are doing anything to lead their kids down the wrong path unintentionally.

 

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Of course parenting is different for this generation. When I was a kid, parenting was different than when my parents were kids. When I was a kid, we saw footage of battles in Vietnam on the nightly news, not in the movie theaters like when my parents were kids. My parents' generation worried about the influence of heavy metal but apparently didn't think twice about violence and aggression discussed and televised on the nightly news in the livingroom every night before dinner. When my parents were kids, soldiers from WWII were home, making families, creating jobs, and wouldn't you know it, without the fear of war and economic collapse, people stopped going to church. This was no big deal for my parents, but for their parents' generation, it was the beginning of the end. Every generation suffers outspoken proponents who lament the culture as they recall it from their youths is the "moral" culture, and everything that comes after is corrupt.

 

Everyone thinks the young generation doesn't "get it," whatever "it" is, and are somehow morally bankrupt because of it, but those who yell at the clouds like that don't seem to consider the problems younger generations face are often consequences of solutions the older generations found to previous, unacceptable problems. It's not like parents today woke up one morning and decided to bribe and spoil their kids. I suspect it's more likely to have been a result of growing up neglected or ignored for not being the 10% jocks/hero in school, or growing up being slapped for not getting in the car quickly, or bullied into participation in activities that weren't important to them.

 

So under which generation did the floor drop out again? Our kids' generation, or our generation, because according to our parents' generation, our generation was morally bankrupt for growing up in listening to Ozzy Osborne records. Or was it our grandparents' generation? The generation that broke up the American family by encouraging women and people of color to get higher degrees of education simply because they wanted to be doctors and lawyers and CEO's and other privileges reserved for WASP men, and not be forced into conventional social roles? Do you know what I mean? Every generation pushes the envelop of the culture to which they are born, but that's not necessarily bad. It's just... different.

 

 

No doubt we have unique challenges. My kids are older now, and I assume they're older than yours. You'll face challenges to which I cannot relate. I never had to navigate the pros and cons of a preschooler using an iPad. But then, you probably wouldn't think to physically punish a child with autism just because they don't comply to social expectations in a convenient way, or harass and bully a beat the crap out of a teen for being gay. I wouldn't put my kids in my generation to save my life, they'd have been tortured and abused cruelly for things we now take for granted to be normal. So yeah, there will be different challenges, but it's not like everything was peachy before, and it's not like today's parents of young children started at Square One and then mucked it all up in a couple years.

I had to quote and say I totally agree. I'm out of likes.

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  I don't think parents who overschedule their kids are doing so to teach them humanity so they can solve the moral dilemmas of our time. I think they are doing it so their kids have lots to put in their college applications.

 

I think families have different reasons for having their children heavily involved in outside activities. Having something to put on their college application may be a factor for some, but it may not figure at all into other families' choices. My kids are very busy in different activities for a variety of reasons that are meaningful for them, for example, and none of the reasons have anything to do with college apps.

 

As far as the article is concerned, I only read half of it. It's not a new argument.

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I had daily chores.  My step-mom implemented them, which is a whole other story that probably only my therapist is interested in. :lol:

 

LOL (kind of... also, sorry). Why I don't enforce anything with my step-kids who have an involved mom (we have them every other week, they were pre-teens when I moved in). My kids listen to their step-dad but their dad is far away and can't do the male authority role on a daily basis. Their dad would balk but what to do... two parent involvement is better than none. I do enforce daily chores.

 

I'm not following your trajectory here. I was just answering Sparkly's question about why parents are putting their kids into so many activities.  I don't think parents who overschedule their kids are doing so to teach them humanity so they can solve the moral dilemmas of our time. I think they are doing it so their kids have lots to put in their college applications.

 

I think ultimately, yes.  It's about "being successful," no? 

 

I bet for some parents it is them living through their children, but for lots it's in attempts to guarantee their children's future.  (Not saying this is the right way to do it, but I see it in my circles.)

 

I sure as heck am not doing this for college applications. As someone who has worked her whole life to solve the moral dilemmas of our time, I can tell you, that's an over-rated career if there ever was one. You don't really want your child to sacrifice their whole financial future for solving moral dilemmas and poverty. Really, you don't. If you think you do, please, spend six months doing in-depth qualitative interviews with 30-somethings to 50-somethings in the social services. If you all think I'm bitter, those interviews would make your face pucker all the way into your intestines.

 

My kids have music of their choice, sport of their choice, and a language that they get stuck with due to fortune (free in PS or we happened to have access) so that they can have the education that many children around the world get as a matter of course and many others would faint over. These are not fun things for them. They are work. They are work to prepare them for a life as a healthy, cultured adult who can get and keep a long string of professional jobs not saving the world but buying a home so that they, too, can provide for their own children.

 

There are no guarantees in parenting.

 

I do not expect it to earn them admissions on any college application with this. I personally am hoping for admission to a state school based on SAT scores and we will all work to get them through. That's it.

 

I just want them to have the most I can give them now, which is not things, or toys, but an education. I think that's what most parents around here, whose kids are in activities, are trying to give them. Not admissions, or scholarships, but a well-rounded education that you can't give them yourself.

 

I am not sure why you'd think it would be about anything else.

 

That said, like Jean, I have never heard of anyone paying per goal. That is ludicrous. We do take them out for ice-cream after their recitals. Is that a big deal? 

 

Granted, we don't live in a super rich area, but I've never heard of parents around here paying kids for goals etc. in sports.  My kids have been in some sports but perhaps we missed the lucrative ones?

 

I've heard of kids getting stickers for doing chores or for certain behaviors.  Sometimes those sticker charts might be traded in at the end of the week or month for an ice cream cone.  Schools do this too.  I do this on some specific things that needed some outside incentive.  My teens haven't seemed to be ruined from the experience.

 

A lot of kids have the gimmes.  You tell them no.  Sometimes you might tell them yes if they've been well behaved and it's a nice day for an ice cream cone.  

 

Some parents do act like their kid's bffs and don't ever tell them "no".  But is it an epidemic?  I don't think so.  At least not in my area.  Though like I said, we all tend to select friends who parent with similar values and methods, even if there are small differences.

 

We live about 5 minutes north without traffic, 10 with. And I don't see it here, either. Yes there are kids who get really fancy things but the vast majority of children I meet on a daily basis are not in the least spoiled and their parents say "no" all the time. And when they get really nice bikes they are grateful. I did once see a BMW with a "student driver" sticker on it. My guess is they were here from Hunt's Point or Medina or something, slumming to play or watch a soccer game. I nearly spit out my coffee.

 

I only saw that once.

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