Chores, if not happy at least accepting

[GypsyHomesteader]

We are going to be starting some school here this soon. I have been having an issue getting the kids to do chores. I know... who doesn't?

 

Well I have been thinking about it and I really need them to understand that mom and dad can't do everything. I have said this to them over and over but I don't think talking is working.

 

I want something a little more gentle but not so gentle they don't know what I am trying to do. A journal to write the complaints? Charts? Schedules? Umm... doing something positive when a complaint comes out?

 

I just don't want harsh. I am all for correcting behavior but I don't want to punish them by taking things away. Even us adults will shirk chores now and again and we don't punish ourselves. However I don't want them to think they can get by every single day without doing things to help. That is basically what they do now. I ,literally, have to tell them to do everything. Even my 17yo (except shower and brush teeth, she does that on her own). They won't walk the dog in the morning (even though they know he has to pee). They won't ever do dishes or laundry unless I (again literally!) get angry and force them. I can't even get them to rinse their dishes!

 

It takes so much (oh so much) energy to get them to do things and I honestly don't have that kind of energy. I know I need energy to enforce anything but I plan to start out small and work it up.

 

Any sage advice and/or ideas?? :)

[73349]

I think for laundry, you have leverage, in that you can decline to do it for them. Assign each one a day in advance--"You may do your laundry on Tuesdays"--and don't get mad. If Miss Tuesday doesn't do her laundry on Tuesday, she can do it next week (or if you're nice, some other time when no one else needs the machines).

 

We have found written charts to be helpful as long as we are willing to keep them up--in fact, I need to keep one for myself, or things slip my mind. Do they have access to any devices with calendars that could remind them?

 

I think your best bet may be an "after x, then y" plan--e.g., after you have walked the dog, you may have breakfast; after you have vacuumed, you may use the TV/computer/trampoline/whatever.

[HomeAgain]

I pay for responsibility here.

 

We have contracts that we used to get into the habit.  They stipulate that anything done by the agreed upon time is subject to pay.  Anything not done by that time still not only needs to be done (and now without pay), but is subject to any nagging or yelling I choose.  You can substitute pay for anything else your family does but it doesn't take too long to realize they still have to no matter what - they just choose not to benefit.  Write it up like a real contract, sit down each kid one by one and have them fill in blanks, initial changes, and sign and date.

Edited to add: sometimes sitting down and talking about it helps, too.  My oldest struggled with dinner dishes.  None of us realized how tight the evening is some days of the week.  After sitting down with "this is the problem, let's find solutions" he proposed switching to daytime dishes (after lunch) on busy nights.  I'm good with that. 

[KrissiK]

My kids don't get to watch tv or do video game until chores are done.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

We are going to be starting some school here this soon. I have been having an issue getting the kids to do chores. I know... who doesn't?

 

Well I have been thinking about it and I really need them to understand that mom and dad can't do everything. I have said this to them over and over but I don't think talking is working.

 

I want something a little more gentle but not so gentle they don't know what I am trying to do. A journal to write the complaints? Charts? Schedules? Umm... doing something positive when a complaint comes out?

 

I just don't want harsh. I am all for correcting behavior but I don't want to punish them by taking things away. Even us adults will shirk chores now and again and we don't punish ourselves. However I don't want them to think they can get by every single day without doing things to help. That is basically what they do now. I ,literally, have to tell them to do everything. Even my 17yo (except shower and brush teeth, she does that on her own). They won't walk the dog in the morning (even though they know he has to pee). They won't ever do dishes or laundry unless I (again literally!) get angry and force them. I can't even get them to rinse their dishes!

 

It takes so much (oh so much) energy to get them to do things and I honestly don't have that kind of energy. I know I need energy to enforce anything but I plan to start out small and work it up.

 

Any sage advice and/or ideas?? :)

 

I'm sure someone will be by to give good advice regarding your younger children, but I wanted to address the situation with your 17yo:

 

I left home for good, as an emancipated minor, at 17. I had a full-time job and my own apartment. Even for kids from good homes where they get to stay through their 18th birthday, 17 is so very, very near adulthood. That's practically grown!

 

I'd not be forcing her or begging her or trying to reason with her at this point. She would be on the adult status of, "If you don't work, you don't eat." Not because anybody hates her but because that's how life works. Natural consequences. For people who lack full time paid help, if they won't rinse or wash their dishes they'll soon reach the point where they can't eat until they do. She really needs to learn this lesson!

 

Give her one set of dishes, one towel and washcloth, one set of sheets for her bed, etc. and let her take care of them. Provide no more until she does. Let her get hungry. Let her get dirty. Let her learn while there's still time.

 

[NancyNellen]

Well, my first suggestion is always, "Start young." The easiest possible thing is to start them in the chore habit early and be consistent, consistent, consistent. Starting mud-stream is a bit trickier.

 

What has been helpful around here is having a set chore time. For years we have had a morning and evening chore time. I call it and all five if my kids get to work. I have their lists on the inside of my pantry door so I can spot check and make sure things get done. Our rule is that you simply cannot move on to anything else until your chores are done. Period.

 

Then I time other things appropriately. Our morning chore time is after breakfast. My 8 year old loads the breakfast dishes into the dishwasher. I run the dishwasher after lunch and my 12 year old empties it at evening chore time. All of my kids over 11 years old do their own laundry (including towels). They each get a day where the washer/dryer are theirs. If they don't do their laundry they are out of luck until next week. They don't typically "forget" more than once :-)

 

The best advice anyone can give you is be consistent. My experience has always been that if I don't require it, they really just won't do it.

[Junie]

 

I think your best bet may be an "after x, then y" plan--e.g., after you have walked the dog, you may have breakfast; after you have vacuumed, you may use the TV/computer/trampoline/whatever.

 

:iagree:  This is what works best at my house.  Dc are not allowed to use screens (TV, computer, Wii) without permission.  I have lots of leverage!

[Miss Tick]

I wanted to address your part about occasional slips being ok. I often will include comments, like, "I am open to hearing your plans or suggestions." They know that if they need to make a change, one-time or ongoing, they probably just need to present me with a clear plan. "Mom, it makes more sense to swiffer the kitchen after dinner. Could I play video games until dinner and then do it directly after?" I try hard to say yes, and/or explain any hesitations. I'm also very clear with them that they are building trust with me, so if they don't follow through I am unlikely to entertain future requests.

 

Whatever you do, be consistent.

[OneStepAtATime]

How good are they with Executive Function issues?  Are they naturally organized?  Is that a struggle?

 

You might read Smart but Scattered and ADD Friendly Ways to Organize your life.  I am not ADD but both of those books gave me some really helpful ideas.  

 

I started my upper elementary and pre-teen kids completely over with chores so that we might get on a more positive footing with getting housework done.  First, I stopped calling it chores and changed to House Maintenance.  Chores had kind of a negative connotation.  

 

Second, we started apprenticeships.  I explained what an apprenticeship was and that all of us would be participating.  Even though it SEEMED like they already knew how to do these things, they really were actually quite insecure and subconsciously resisted.  The apprenticeships took off the pressure.  They knew they weren't expected to know how to do each and every little thing perfectly even if they had done it before.  

 

I picked one thing to start with, I demonstrated, I talked through what I was doing and WHY I was doing it, shared what are personal preferences and what are things that need to be done for a specific reason.  Then we did stuff together a lot.  I tried to make it a positive experience.  We listened to music.  We talked.  Then they were doing it more on their own but I was nearby, reminding, praising, scaffolding.  Then they were completely on their own.  Once they could demonstrate mastery of all the steps consistently without prompting they got a certificate for completing the apprenticeship and moving on to Journeyman status.  

 

This was not over a day or two for each chore/skill, by the way, but over a couple of weeks in most instances, sometimes a bit longer.  Lots of positive reinforcement.  Lots of scaffolding so the steps and process  became second nature.  Was it time consuming?  Yes.  And seemed a bit silly to do at first.  But it was actually fun in the end, too.  I tried to keep focused on anything they did right, not on criticizing things they did poorly or in a way I didn't want.  The kids gained a more positive attitude about all of us pitching in to help.   It really turned a lot of things around here.   I rarely every get an argument now about anything they apprenticed on.  In fact, they each cleaned bathrooms this weekend without a gripe.

 

As for your 17 year old, probably too late for an apprenticeship.  Not sure there, unless you positively but firmly explain that if she wants clean clothes she needs to clean her clothes.

 

FWIW, on of my BsIL is a single dad with three boys.  When he divorced, it was a bit overwhelming.  To survive, he bought each person in the household their own set of dishes and utensils, easily distinguishable from each other.  The rule was that if you wanted to eat, your dishes had to be cleaned. Everyone cleaned their own unless they could talk someone else into it.  They griped at first but after a couple of meals where everyone else is eating and you are without food, they started cleaning their dishes.  Since there was only a plate, bowl, cup, fork, spoon, knife for each (all other kitchen ware he boxed up for use only when company came) it really wasn't that hard to clean it once they got over the shock of having to clean their own.

[City Mouse]

What seems to be working well for me is having a set time where everyone is doing housework/chores. I don't have to phrase things in a punishment-reward system. Neither of which work well for my kids. Using a list of chores only worked when only one child is at home at the time, because if one finished before the other then the 2nd kid stopped working.

Now, chore time is set. If they finish one job, then they move on to the next job. Mine are old enough that I give them several suggestions and they can pick what they want to do, or I will give them a specific job if they prefer.

[Reefgazer]

We started the kids small on chores, each got one job per month - say, one that taking out the garbage and one damp mopping the stairs. Then after a few months, we added a chore to each child. So we start small and build up. There really isn't any difficulty getting them to do the chores; they know if they're not done, they don't get to go outside, go into the pool, listen to the iPod, or do anything else they want to do until those chores are done.

[Mbelle]

I am agreeing with above posters who say start young.  I did not do that with my first 2 children.  Later on I worked with them to help them learn how to do chores.  One thing that helped me was to teach and do chores together when I was in a good mood instead of at my wits end.  I also commiserated with them that it really isn't fun, but it doesn't take that long.  Usually we don't complain, but occasionally we do.  If complaining is excessive we address it.  Sometimes light a candle and practice contentment. LOL 

[Junie]

Just this week we started "15 Minutes".   :party:  The little ones think it is fun.  The older ones go along because they like the reward at the end.

 

We set the time for 15 minutes and everyone starts putting away or cleaning something.  I let the dc do pretty much what they want, so long as it is meeting the goal of having the house look nicer.  When the time goes off, each child reports to me on what they did and gets a piece of candy.  Some of them have even asked if they can get another piece of candy if they clean for 15 more minutes!

 

I can't believe how much better the house looks in just a couple of days!  I definitely plan to continue this!  

 

 

As for op's original question of motivating older children, I have started offering my older dc a piece of candy (chocolate!) if they do a regularly-assigned chore BEFORE being asked.  This has helped some of them to put away laundry without nagging or doing the dishes right after dinner instead of waiting an hour  (or two.  or three).

[MerryAtHope]

We are going to be starting some school here this soon. I have been having an issue getting the kids to do chores. I know... who doesn't?

 

Well I have been thinking about it and I really need them to understand that mom and dad can't do everything. I have said this to them over and over but I don't think talking is working.

 

I want something a little more gentle but not so gentle they don't know what I am trying to do. A journal to write the complaints? Charts? Schedules? Umm... doing something positive when a complaint comes out?

 

I just don't want harsh. I am all for correcting behavior but I don't want to punish them by taking things away. Even us adults will shirk chores now and again and we don't punish ourselves. However I don't want them to think they can get by every single day without doing things to help. That is basically what they do now. I ,literally, have to tell them to do everything. Even my 17yo (except shower and brush teeth, she does that on her own). They won't walk the dog in the morning (even though they know he has to pee). They won't ever do dishes or laundry unless I (again literally!) get angry and force them. I can't even get them to rinse their dishes!

 

It takes so much (oh so much) energy to get them to do things and I honestly don't have that kind of energy. I know I need energy to enforce anything but I plan to start out small and work it up.

 

Any sage advice and/or ideas?? :)

 

Letting them know mom/dad can't do everything is a good start. I would expand the idea to, we all help each other. We called chores "family service" and built up a sense of team and family identity over the years. We're all here for each other--it's just what we do. And they know whether it's chores or life events--we are all here for each other. 

 

I don't think kids will really understand unspoken inconsistencies like "I can not do them occasionally but can't avoid them all the time." Especially not during a training phase. I wouldn't start that way.

 

Adults don't punish themselves but do suffer the consequences (dishes are dirty & they still have to do them later, etc...). Kid's don't suffer the same consequences if they never have to do the dishes or can just get another one out and someone else takes care of the mess, you know? 

 

You don't need to get angry and scream. Just set boundaries. No electronics until chores are finished is one such boundary. Make the boundary anything you want. You aren't taking anything away--you're simply stating work before play. If they never get electronics because they never do their job, you didn't punish them--they CHOSE that consequence. If you have to put something on a shelf because they can't follow the boundary--again, this is a consequence they are choosing. They know how not to get it. Let them live with their choice. 

 

Also, don't expect what you don't inspect--follow-up is always needed, consistently. Have them tell you when they are done, or move a velcro sticker on a chart, or check a check-box on a laminated wall-chart etc... to show it's done, and then you go see that it's done and done well (to their capability depending on age etc...) If not, send them back. 

 

Kids who are about 6 or older generally won't say no, but they will whine, complain, argue, cajole, and negotiate their way out of any and every situation they don't want to be in. They know you'd never tolerate a flat-out "no," so they become sophisticated little lawyers. So, at the beginning of your training process, I would not provide ways for them to write notes and complain. These are not, 95% of the time, legitimate complaints. These are strategies to try to get out of the work. Expect to be obeyed and walk away. I used to tell my kids, "You're arguing. Are you choosing to disobey?" Or I'd say, "I'll tell you what. Go do the chore, and then if you still have an issue with it, come talk to me." I never had a kid come back because it wasn't a real complaint--it was just trying to get out of work. 

 

Once they are trained and generally respectful and obedient, then they earn the right to come to you (respectfully, with the intention of obeying) and discuss a REAL issue--such as, "I was just about to do xyz, would it be okay with you if I first did that for 10 minutes, and then did this chore?" Again, though, make sure they follow-through on their word. As they display respect and responsibility, you can give more freedom in such negotiations. 

 

Having a regular time can help. Everybody does 15 minutes of picking up the livingroom and other common areas before lunch, for example.

 

Most people don't like unexpected surprises that involve work. I think your idea to have a chart up that clearly lays out the expectations would be very beneficial, and serve as a visual reminder too. 

 

Be respectful of their time. If you know you will be interrupting them and the item isn't urgent, give a 5-minute warning. "Five more minutes, and then it's time to clean up the legos and do your daily family service."

 

I did pay my kids an allowance, and taught them to divide up their earnings into categories--gifts for others, tithing, AWANA dues or saving for youth group outings, savings account, and spending. Their work earned them money which was spent on some of their needs and some of their wants, and they learned budgeting skills to boot. 

 

Take some time, think through what you want to accomplish and how to go about it, and then let them know. 

 

For your 17 yo, I like the suggestions about letting her experience the consequences (1 dish etc.... I've even heard of people doing that with younger ones too.) If needed, I'd have a heart to heart. This isn't about you being a slave-driver--she's going to be on her own soon and you want her to be prepared for that life. 

 

At times I also had a short heart to heart with my kids at younger ages. What did they want their homelife to be like? Would they like to live with a mom who complained about making their dinner, driving them places, doing their laundry? I might not always enjoy doing those things, but I do them with a good attitude. Similarly, they need to learn to work with a good attitude, even when it's something they'd rather not do.

 

Hang in there! It may take work to get things to run the way you want them to, but it really will be better for everyone long-term.

[momacacia]

Starting small has been great here, but we also started about 2 years ago. Consistent requirements with 1-2 chores at a time for say 6 months of training rendered results. The dishwasher no longer needs nagging to get emptied and while the morning bathroom tidy still needs a bit more training and a detailed checklist for them, the 6yo actually does quite a good job cleaning it. Praise and thank you's are huge as well. At our ages it's required some hovering and teaching but I'm also to the point where I can come check and say, "Nope, not tidy enough, keep picking up," and let them work until it's good enough to acquire summer TV time. (And yes, I'm so tired with baby 4 on the way in my old age ;-). It does take energy unfortunately!

[...................]

ACCOUNTABLE KIDS PROGRAM IS THE BEST.

 

I can say no more. I wish wish wish wish I had shelled out the money for this year's and years ago!!!!

[LucyStoner]

We started before 5 with both kids.

 

We don't pay for chores because those are things they need to do even if we, in unforeseen circumstances, couldn't pay. They get an allowance but it is separate from their chores. I am glad we did it that way because when we had an income cut of over 50% and cut their allowance (from $1/year of age per week to getting the same amount but only e/o week) they didn't expect their chores to decrease.

 

I also gave them their own dish color. That helps them take charge of their things.

 

They each have a magnet board for their chores, music practice and schoolwork. They move something from the To Do to the Done side as they do it. They made them with me and like that.

[Farrar]

I think the key thing is to remember that it does take time and effort on your part to make it happen. I think that's how we fall into the trap of doing too much - because in the moment, it's easier to just do it than to teach then how and build the habit.

 

We do have some daily chores, but I have found in general that I get the most help when I just say, okay, everyone stop and pitch in right now. And then we all clean up the kitchen or the whole downstairs or whatever all together. So I'm standing there saying, take this to the trash, pick up all those books, sweep in there, etc. while doing other stuff. It does make the work go much faster and for us it has led to a good attitude. It's not that you're doing something while everyone else is having fun - everyone's working together.

 

I think you've gotten good advice about your 17 yo. That's way too old not to be pulling her weight in terms of household stuff.