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Matryoshka
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It,s very strange... all these colleges in New England and yet it still can be difficult to find middle ground. We had the same problem. For a mechanical enginnering major!!! Such a common major! And yet, small uni,s close to home in the middle stats were so scarce as to be practically non-existant. Ug. (And much as I hate it, for a homeschooler, those stats matter to colleges, more than for non-homeschoolers, at least around here.)

 

Newfoundland sounds interesting.... I think of the Maritimes as close, too, closer than NY state. Probably not accurate, distance-wise, but that,s my impression.

 

Nan

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It,s very strange... all these colleges in New England and yet it still can be difficult to find middle ground. We had the same problem. For a mechanical enginnering major!!! Such a common major! And yet, small uni,s close to home in the middle stats were so scarce as to be practically non-existant. Ug. (And much as I hate it, for a homeschooler, those stats matter to colleges, more than for non-homeschoolers, at least around here.)

 

Yep.  So, so, many schools, and almost all seem to be either very selective, or.... not.

 

Newfoundland sounds interesting.... I think of the Maritimes as close, too, closer than NY state. Probably not accurate, distance-wise, but that,s my impression.

 

 

 

It does sound interesting, so I even looked up taking a plane.  Wow, no direct flights, either from Boston or Manchester, and there's one flight available that takes a bit over 7 hours.  All the rest take ten to fourteen hours!  It's like you can't get there from here!

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It does sound interesting, so I even looked up taking a plane.  Wow, no direct flights, either from Boston or Manchester, and there's one flight available that takes a bit over 7 hours.  All the rest take ten to fourteen hours!  It's like you can't get there from here!

 

You may want to look at colleges in the Midwest.  There are direct, nonstop flights to Logan that take a little over an hour that cost around $90 from our local airport.  .  

 

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That said, we just got back from meeting with the dean at the local university.  I don't know what to think and I hope your meeting at Bridgewater is more encouraging.  She said that they don't have very many students ever exceed what they offer.  (They only have undergrad classes and the reason dd's Russian teacher was mortified at the thought of dd going there was b/c she says dd will have completed 3 yrs of college level Russian prior to high school graduation.  She went to BYU for a French camp and tested into 300 level classes there already and she is only a rising jr.)  That really leaves us in a pickle b/c there are no other in-state Russian majors (well there is one other, but that dept is even smaller than this one).

 

They did encourage dd to DE in the spring.  That is something we are going to seriously consider b/c that will let her evaluate the program from inside before her sr yr.  The main problem I see with that is that the dept is so small they only offer classes Fall only/Spring only and I have a feeling she is going to be a fall class level in Russian in the spring.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I think this could be a problem with a foreign language major, especially if the school is small.  Small universities tend not to have many FL courses past the 200 level, and if you don't have to take the first two years' worth, I'm thinking it would be hard to put together enough for a major.  I've looked at a bunch of the colleges around here for upper level German (thinking my dds who have already passed the AP could take one), and many don't offer that much beyond 200 level besides independent studies (!!) and culture courses.  You'd have to see how many upper-level classes they are, and how many are actually taught in Russian.  One idea to add Russian credits would perhaps be to spend a year abroad there to round things out.  It does seem to be very hard to find good FL programs in languages other than maybe Spanish and French!

 

As far as breadth of courses go, it doesn't seem like my dd would have a problem with Anthropology at Bridgewater - the three flavors of major helps.  They don't have advanced languages at all (she's fairly fluent in two), but they do have up through Intermediate Arabic (she's taking Beginner at the CC in the fall), and I've suggested to her that since she's not interested in majoring in a language or spending lots of time studying its literature, it might be better anyway to continue to study it by just taking a year abroad and just get really, fully fluent.

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Okay, this school might be a Yaris rather than a Yugo - more research must be done. :lol:

 

The CC she's now attending DE does have an Honors program; it's not a great CC but not a terrible one either.  I have a friend whose dd is at the same CC and has been doing a lot with the Honors program and has been very careful about which profs her dd has, and she's had some really good, challenging classes. The 2nd-Tier State U's in this state seem to me to be about the same level as the CC, just four years instead of two.  But she's liking the CC.  She takes her first Honors class there in the fall.

 

 

I've not read the whole thread, but am thinking if she likes the CC, why not stay with that and then plan a switch into another place to finish the last 2 years for a BA?  That could give her a comfortable spot where she is already familiar and comfortable to do some growing in.  The last two could be at the 2nd tier place perhaps or someplace else if she were then ready for that.

 

 

or

 

 

If she is very good specifically at foreign languages, how about a place that specializes in that such as Middlebury or Monterey Institute ?  

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I'm sorry, but I think this could be a problem with a foreign language major, especially if the school is small. Small universities tend not to have many FL courses past the 200 level, and if you don't have to take the first two years' worth, I'm thinking it would be hard to put together enough for a major. I've looked at a bunch of the colleges around here for upper level German (thinking my dds who have already passed the AP could take one), and many don't offer that much beyond 200 level besides independent studies (!!) and culture courses. You'd have to see how many upper-level classes they are, and how many are actually taught in Russian. One idea to add Russian credits would perhaps be to spend a year abroad there to round things out. It does seem to be very hard to find good FL programs in languages other than maybe Spanish and French!

 

As far as breadth of courses go, it doesn't seem like my dd would have a problem with Anthropology at Bridgewater - the three flavors of major helps. They don't have advanced languages at all (she's fairly fluent in two), but they do have up through Intermediate Arabic (she's taking Beginner at the CC in the fall), and I've suggested to her that since she's not interested in majoring in a language or spending lots of time studying its literature, it might be better anyway to continue to study it by just taking a year abroad and just get really, fully fluent.

They only offer 6 courses at the 300 up level in Russian and 8 in French. But, I am not sure what they all are and if some of those 300 level courses (conversational courses) will even meet her needs. (I am doubting it with French. She now has a French tutor who hardly speaks any English. She is watching movies in French she hasn't watched before like Chocolat and understanding the majority.) She did ask if she could double major and do study abroad for both and was told yes (they have a well-endowed study abroad program.) So that is an upside. The other thing is that she hasn't spoken to either of the professors in charge of the individual languages. The dean is actually directly involved in their German program (something dd is not interested in.) Both the French and Russian profs are with students abroad right now.

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I've not read the whole thread, but am thinking if she likes the CC, why not stay with that and then plan a switch into another place to finish the last 2 years for a BA?  That could give her a comfortable spot where she is already familiar and comfortable to do some growing in.  The last two could be at the 2nd tier place perhaps or someplace else if she were then ready for that.

 

 

 

 

She'll actually pretty much run out of useful courses at the CC by the end of this next year.  She has taken the one whole Anthropology course they offer.  She'll have gotten Freshman Comp out of the way, a couple of sciences, she's beyond the Spanish and German they offer, she'll have fulfuilled any science electives she'll need... I'm really not sure what she'd take if she spent a year there as a full-time student - I'm sure she could find something interesting - there are some cool honors seminars, but enough for 12-15 credits a semester?  And whatever it would be, the courses would all just transfer as extra electives, and she'd probably have to spend the exact same amount of time at a 4-year than if she started next year.  And... she'd really like to move out, even if it's not super-far away.

 

If she is very good specifically at foreign languages, how about a place that specializes in that such as Middlebury or Monterey Institute ? 

 

She really likes languages, but she's already past the basic courses in two (see my post to Eight about majoring in languages you start off at a high level in...), and besides, upper level FL major courses are mostly literature - she likes the linguistics aspect more, I think.

 

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I've not read the whole thread, but am thinking if she likes the CC, why not stay with that and then plan a switch into another place to finish the last 2 years for a BA? That could give her a comfortable spot where she is already familiar and comfortable to do some growing in. The last two could be at the 2nd tier place perhaps or someplace else if she were then ready for that.

 

 

or

 

 

If she is very good specifically at foreign languages, how about a place that specializes in that such as Middlebury or Monterey Institute ?

Monterey Institute is owned by Middlebury :) , but yes, nothing beats them in languages. Monterey language program is graduate level though.
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I keep seeing folks suggest specific colleges for the OP and her daughter to check out, and, while I think that may be somewhat helpful, I worry a bit about whether such posts may be implying a "the college you've already said you like and that your daughter likes isn't good enough" message. So, I wanted to toss in a couple more thoughts.

 

In general, I think that choosing a college/university is a lot like choosing curricula: The "best" curriculum for a given subject is the one that both the instructor and the student feel comfortable using, because that's the one that gets done. And the "best" college for a given student is the one at which he or she is most likely to be able to feel nurtured and to finish a degree.

 

The specifics of the ways in which each individual student needs to feel nurtured and what each student's individual barriers or obstacles might be to finishing a degree vary, of course. Some students will need the stimulation and excitement and challenge of a peer group who challenges them and instructors who are dynamic lecturers, because that kind of intellectual climate drives them. Others work better in smaller, calmer environments and need instructors who take the time to treat students more gently. Some students need to feel their degree is more valuable because it comes from a name-brand school, while others find the financial pressure and stress of worrying about how the bills are getting paid to be a burden. There are many, many approaches, and there are probably multiple colleges available to every student that would meet that student's individual criteria.

 

If Matryoshka's daughter has warm fuzzy feelings about this college and it offers a major she is interested in with a decent number of courses and opportunities available and it fits into the family's budget and works within the framework of other practical concerns like distance from home, I see not one single thing to be gained from trying to distract or dissuade her from attending.

 

What is that saying? Don't the the "better" be the enemy of the good. (I put "better" in quotes to indicate that we're talking about perception rather than some kind of objective truth.)

 

 

 

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If Matryoshka's daughter has warm fuzzy feelings about this college and it offers a major she is interested in with a decent number of courses and opportunities available and it fits into the family's budget and works within the framework of other practical concerns like distance from home, I see not one single thing to be gained from trying to distract or dissuade her from attending.

 

What is that saying? Don't the the "better" be the enemy of the good. (I put "better" in quotes to indicate that we're talking about perception rather than some kind of objective truth.)

 

This.

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Except Matryoshka did state she wanted other schools to consider.

 

I feel like she needs some more Honda schools (or any Honda schools). I thought UMass Amherst would be on that list, but again, it's huge, and she didn't like it when we visited. :( She would like not to go too far - say, Northeast within a 4-6 hour radius, so all those nice cheap schools in the MIdwest and South are out.

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That said, we just got back from meeting with the dean at the local university. I don't know what to think and I hope your meeting at Bridgewater is more encouraging. She said that they don't have very many students ever exceed what they offer. (They only have undergrad classes and the reason dd's Russian teacher was mortified at the thought of dd going there was b/c she says dd will have completed 3 yrs of college level Russian prior to high school graduation. She went to BYU for a French camp and tested into 300 level classes there already and she is only a rising jr.) That really leaves us in a pickle b/c there are no other in-state Russian majors (well there is one other, but that dept is even smaller than this one).

 

They did encourage dd to DE in the spring. That is something we are going to seriously consider b/c that will let her evaluate the program from inside before her sr yr. The main problem I see with that is that the dept is so small they only offer classes Fall only/Spring only and I have a feeling she is going to be a fall class level in Russian in the spring.

 

Sigh......why does this process have to be so complicated.

What are her career goals? Most people use a language to complement another major. Can she not keep taking Russian/French through a tutor to achieve fluency (which is the main goal of language learning anyway) and then major is something she likes that the school offers (business, international affairs, whatever)?

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If Matryoshka's daughter has warm fuzzy feelings about this college and it offers a major she is interested in with a decent number of courses and opportunities available and it fits into the family's budget and works within the framework of other practical concerns like distance from home, I see not one single thing to be gained from trying to distract or dissuade her from attending.

 

What is that saying? Don't the the "better" be the enemy of the good. (I put "better" in quotes to indicate that we're talking about perception rather than some kind of objective truth.)

 

 

Except Matryoshka did state she wanted other schools to consider.

 

 

Thanks, Jenny and Eight!  These both are true - I don't want to let the best be the enemy of the good - but I also feel like I'd like more than two schools I'd feel comfortable sending her off to right now, one of which is a super-long-shot.

 

Stuff she's been telling me from the Field School this week makes me waffle in both directions!  She thinks the Harvard grad student went to Salem State undergrad, so apparently that kind of path isn't impossible... there's another girl in the class that went to MIT.  DD is holding her own and loving it.  She's also enjoying the fact that no one can believe she's still in high school, and that she's already lived abroad (albeit for only a summer).  On the one hand, at Bridgewater she probably isn't going to meet these kinds of classmates.  But on the other hand, she does seem to be enjoying the 'wow, you must be smart' kind of vibe she's getting for being so young and doing this.  This may be a bit of a character flaw, ;) but there it is...  It seems very likely that she should be at a school where she's a good bit above the average, but I was thinking more 80th percentile than over 90th.  Just can't find that school (and then they might well be out of price range if I did...)

 

I think she's going to make great connections via these three teachers.  This class will give her a Nautical Archaeology Level 1 Certificate.  Apparently there are two more levels, and the teachers are suggesting that the class should continue (not sure when, though) and do the next two levels.   She's also thinking about doing a SCUBA certification later this summer, which is not required for the former, but will be if she's serious about visiting shipwrecks in the future...

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Matryoshka, I do understand much of what you are posting, especially if I merge several of my children's personalities together. Our oldest dd would be crushed in a competitive environment and she needs to feel highly competent for her own morale, but she is also not an incredibly high achiever like some of her siblings.

 

With her younger brother, who is not only incredibly high achieving, but incredibly high energy as well, we had to opt for the best affordable option. I am so glad his affordable has been such a wonderful experience. He is also the type of kid that cannot only make lemonade out of lemons, but can bottle it and turn it into the next best thing. He could have gone to the local university and have been supported by incredible professors who would have made the experience great with him (he wouldn't have needed them to do it for him.)

 

Our 11th grader has a completely different personality than the other 2. She is an incredibly high achieving, low energy (now) introvert. When that dean stated yesterday that they have never really had a student who maxed out their offerings, I didn't get the feeling from the dean's perspective that they would accommodate non-standard students. I'm not sure how that attitude and dd's personality mesh. Whether the professors have the same attitude is yet to be determined.

 

If they could meet her academic needs, I know that she would achieve the highest level possible simply bc that is her personality. But it is completely iffy if they can, and financially I am looking at a big black hole of options. She really doesn't have the option of looking around at Hondas unless the come packaged at the price of a bicycle. :p

 

What are her career goals? Most people use a language to complement another major. Can she not keep taking Russian/French through a tutor to achieve fluency (which is the main goal of language learning anyway) and then major is something she likes that the school offers (business, international affairs, whatever)?

She has no idea what she wants to do with her languages. She is going to take a linguistics course this year to see if linguistics appeals to her. (There are absolutely NO in-state options for linguistics.). She doesn't know if international business appeals or not. She is only 16, so I don't feel like she needs to know the answers at this point. She does know she does not want to teach.
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She has no idea what she wants to do with her languages. She is going to take a linguistics course this year to see if linguistics appeals to her. (There are absolutely NO in-state options for linguistics.). She doesn't know if international business appeals or not. She is only 16, so I don't feel like she needs to know the answers at this point. She does know she does not want to teach.

 

I entered college at the 3/400 level in two languages, and no idea what I wanted to do.  I technically declared as a business major, but only because I'd heard it was the hardest school to get into, and much harder to transfer in later, so I figured I could always transfer out, which I did - bleck, statistics, accounting and macroeconomics...

 

I ended up just taking whatever courses interested me, and took a semester abroad in Spain.  I floated the idea of a fifth year to figure things out with my parents, and they said "how are you going to pay for it?" (They paid for my undergrad, but only up to 4 years).  I ended up cobbling together a major from the classes I'd taken through an interdisciplinary major program.  I added in some international politics and economics classes for good measure, and called it "International Trade".  I ended up with a minor in both languages kind of by accident - you only need 5 courses at the upper levels for a minor, and since I only had to take upper level courses, that was extremely easy...

 

I thought about a grad degree in Linguistics, but then decided that would probably be a waste since I had no interest in being a professor (what else do you do with a PhD in Linguistics?).  I ended up working for software companies doing international marketing and software localization.  It was okay, but nothing I'd want to return to.  One of the more fun jobs was doing QA for DragonDictate in 4 languages (my French and Italian were also good enough for that purpose).

 

In retrospect, it would have been really cool to become a bilingual speech language pathologist.  I do really like comparative linguistics and language acquisition, and I like working with kids one on one or in small groups.  I knew I didn't want to teach in a big classroom.  At this point I'm thinking of maybe doing medical interpretation once the kids are done, and probably also tutoring in learning to read (thinking of getting a certificate), English grammar, Spanish and German.  Just to throw out a hodgepodge of things to do with languages...

 

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I thought about a grad degree in Linguistics, but then decided that would probably be a waste since I had no interest in being a professor (what else do you do with a PhD in Linguistics?).

 

 

How about develop languages for TV and movie aliens, like Klingon? There's probably not a lot of demand for that.

 

I imagine there's stuff in national security as well.

 

And on the research side of professor some crossover or collaboration with neuroscience.

 

Bilingual SLP sounds really cool.

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I thought about a grad degree in Linguistics, but then decided that would probably be a waste since I had no interest in being a professor (what else do you do with a PhD in Linguistics?). 

...

In retrospect, it would have been really cool to become a bilingual speech language pathologist.  I do really like comparative linguistics and language acquisition, and I like working with kids one on one or in small groups.  I knew I didn't want to teach in a big classroom.  At this point I'm thinking of maybe doing medical interpretation once the kids are done, and probably also tutoring in learning to read (thinking of getting a certificate), English grammar, Spanish and German.  Just to throw out a hodgepodge of things to do with languages...

 

 

Middle son is actively researching language acquisition within Linguistics.  He loves it.  He'll need to decide if he wants to continue Plan A of med school --> MD or Plan B of MSTP (med school + PhD) --> research.

 

I'd told him a few years back that if he studied Brain & Cognitive he was essentially making his decision for med school as I don't really see what one does with that major otherwise, but there's an awful lot of research going on within it for those interested and capable of being at that level.

 

Of course, doing research alone usually comes with being a professor.  MSTP comes with med school and a commitment afterward.

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Monterey Institute is owned by Middlebury :) , but yes, nothing beats them in languages. Monterey language program is graduate level though.

 

 

I spent a while there long ago...didn't realize it had changed its name or was only graduate level...  I recall it as being very small, not the sort of place to be lost at.  Strange.

 

 

 

 

A person I know went to Middlebury about 10 years ago or so now. He got a full ride (partly need based and partly based on that he had fluency in two languages and a bit of a couple more) for at least the first two years and used it to combine language with art history, then was able to use the language part to get jobs dealing with art related tourism in Italy. At least as I understand it.

 

At the back of my mind is that maybe there'd be some way to use language given that it seems there is a strength in that to improve chances of having a job related to anthropology or archaelogy....sort of like this other person did combining language with art.

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Thanks, Jenny and Eight!  These both are true - I don't want to let the best be the enemy of the good - but I also feel like I'd like more than two schools I'd feel comfortable sending her off to right now, one of which is a super-long-shot.

 

Stuff she's been telling me from the Field School this week makes me waffle in both directions!  She thinks the Harvard grad student went to Salem State undergrad, so apparently that kind of path isn't impossible... there's another girl in the class that went to MIT.  DD is holding her own and loving it.  She's also enjoying the fact that no one can believe she's still in high school, and that she's already lived abroad (albeit for only a summer).  On the one hand, at Bridgewater she probably isn't going to meet these kinds of classmates.  But on the other hand, she does seem to be enjoying the 'wow, you must be smart' kind of vibe she's getting for being so young and doing this.  This may be a bit of a character flaw, ;) but there it is...  It seems very likely that she should be at a school where she's a good bit above the average, but I was thinking more 80th percentile than over 90th.  Just can't find that school (and then they might well be out of price range if I did...)

 

I think she's going to make great connections via these three teachers.  This class will give her a Nautical Archaeology Level 1 Certificate.  Apparently there are two more levels, and the teachers are suggesting that the class should continue (not sure when, though) and do the next two levels.   She's also thinking about doing a SCUBA certification later this summer, which is not required for the former, but will be if she's serious about visiting shipwrecks in the future...

 

 

What is actually required for whatever it is she wants to do?  It seems like doing scuba diving around shipwrecks might be something she could do without a college degree and might be better done when younger rather than older.  Would there be jobs available in that area without a college degree?  Could it be something for a gap year or two?

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What is actually required for whatever it is she wants to do?  It seems like doing scuba diving around shipwrecks might be something she could do without a college degree and might be better done when younger rather than older.  Would there be jobs available in that area without a college degree?  Could it be something for a gap year or two?

 

Visiting shipwrecks for fun is a completely different animal than being a marine/nautical archaeologist.  It's like visiting Pompeii as a tourist vs. being someone working on the excavations.  If she did decide to go into this sub-branch (which she still has lots of time to decide), apparently there's a great graduate program at East Carolina University.

 

More good news from the course, which ended today - her "chemist" said her sketches were pubiication-worthy, and asked her to be a research assistant (unpaid, of course).  He said she could do some stuff from home, as it would be a lot of working on PDFs, and I think there could also be some more field work.

 

Also, one of the students in the class told dd she was transferring from Salem State to UVM because it has a good Archaeology program (Salem State doesn't actually have Anthro/Archaeology, just History).  So dd said maaaaybe she'd consider looking a little bit at UVM, even though she "hates Vermont because it's full of conifers"... :rolleyes:  She's right about 75th percentile there stats-wise, so it could be a good fit - bad news is that it's ridiculously expensive for a state school, so she'd have to get some $$ from them.  The profs didn't seem necessarily excited about Bridgewater, but they thought she could do fine there, and also emphasized that she shouldn't go into debt for undergrad.

 

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More good news from the course, which ended today - her "chemist" said her sketches were pubiication-worthy, and asked her to be a research assistant (unpaid, of course).  He said she could do some stuff from home, as it would be a lot of working on PDFs, and I think there could also be some more field work.

 

 

 

 

That sounds fantastic!!!  Congratulations to her and to you too, Mom!

 

 

 

I looked up Bridgewater and it sounds pretty good to me, actually.   Especially if she might qualify for the honors program.  Others mentioned to compare were Fitchburg, Framingham (more selective), Salem etc. also in the State Univ. system and seemingly ranked similarly.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how rolling admissions work these days, but if she applied to BW early and got in, then maybe she could just focus on the possibility that a "reach" might become available (though it might or might not be a better option/fit).  If she did not maybe there'd still be time to look for another less selective option to apply to?

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A person I know went to Middlebury about 10 years ago or so now. He got a full ride (partly need based and partly based on that he had fluency in two languages and a bit of a couple more).

Middlebury only offers need based aid and nothing else.

 

Types of Aid

All undergraduate financial assistance at Middlebury is based on financial need as determined by Student Financial Services. We do not offer merit scholarships at Middlebury. The three major types of financial aid are grants/scholarships, student loans, and jobs.

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Middlebury only offers need based aid and nothing else.

 

Types of Aid

All undergraduate financial assistance at Middlebury is based on financial need as determined by Student Financial Services. We do not offer merit scholarships at Middlebury. The three major types of financial aid are grants/scholarships, student loans, and jobs.

 

google it:

www.collegescholarships.org/scholarships/foreign-language.htm

 

 

  1. Foreign Language Scholarships - Scholarships By Major - College ...
    https://www. scholarships.com/...aid/college-scholarships/scholarships.../ foreign-language-scholarships/
    Ă¢â‚¬Å½
     
    Fluency in (or even a working knowledge of) another language will also greatly ... To ease the often high cost of college, foreign language scholarship awards are ... Scholarshiprecipients receive a full-tuition scholarship (less financial aid) [.
     

Ă¢â‚¬Å½

 

and other such sources can lead to scholarships for students who are fluent in foreign languages.  

A friend of mine fluent in Polish got a free or almost free ride based on that (not at Middlebury in her case).

 

Foreign language excellence scholarships definitely at least used to exist, in a very significant way, based on my knowledge of these couple of kids, but both were some years back, I have edited this to add.  Maybe they still do.  Maybe could help both OP's dd and yours.  They may not be available though for all languages, possibly just ones being sought out, or unusual ones.  Or even ones where some group like a Polish society has made it exist.  Anyway, could be worth checking out.  I should also maybe add that both of these people I knew who got big foreign language scholarships were truly bilingual in English and a second language, plus some high school learning in a third language.

 

 

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That sounds fantastic!!!  Congratulations to her and to you too, Mom!

 

I looked up Bridgewater and it sounds pretty good to me, actually.   Especially if she might qualify for the honors program.  Others mentioned to compare were Fitchburg, Framingham (more selective), Salem etc. also in the State Univ. system and seemingly ranked similarly.

 

Yep, those are the equivalent state universities.  Bridgewater seems to be the only one with Anthro, though.  Her summer Field School was at Salem State (even though it doesn't have an Anthro major - I think it was just close to the wreck).  I took Conversational Spanish my senior year of high school at Framingham State. :)

 

I'm not sure how rolling admissions work these days, but if she applied to BW early and got in, then maybe she could just focus on the possibility that a "reach" might become available (though it might or might not be a better option/fit).  If she did not maybe there'd still be time to look for another less selective option to apply to?

 

I noticed Bridgewater also has Early Action.  That might be a good way to go too, as it's not binding, but it would give her that peace of mind.  Need to do the NPC on UVM - the sticker price is over double the price of Bridgewater!  Does look like it has a very nice program.  The UVM website has a bit higher stats listed than the Niche page, though, so maybe she's more like 65th-70th percentile there?  Her stats do make the cut-off for merit scholarships, but they're not automatic, so still no guarantee.  And we'd have to get a lot of $$ to make up over half the sticker price... 

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The problem with outside scholarships is that at schools like Middlebury where all FA is need-based, the scholarships are not very helpful unless you are full pay. When students receive outside scholarships, it typically goes against their need which means it reduces their FA and there is no net gain. You end up still having to pay the exact same amt regardless.

 

Schools which only offer need based aid, whatever they say your EFC is is normally going to be close to your cost unless you aren't relying on any institutional grants.

 

Merit money is going to give you your biggest bang at lower ranked schools that are actively recruiting higher caliber students.

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Maybe I am missing something, but I'm not sure outside scholarships are mostly only helpful at need-met schools if full-pay. My daughter's NM corporate scholarship would have went toward loans or the student contribution at Smith, which is a 100% need-met school. I don't think Smith is unique in this. Harvard reduces students work and summer earnings expectation with outside awards before reducing Harvard grants. Same with U of Chicago. At Middlebury, the website says outside scholarships replace self-help first--work and loan requirements--before they will reduce grant aid. Also, it probably is easiest to get merit aid at lower-ranked schools that actively recruit top students, but there are top colleges that offer merit aid. Gwen in Va recently posted that her children went to Washington & Lee for very little--I think she said $15,000 for both total.    

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Maybe I am missing something, but I'm not sure outside scholarships are mostly only helpful at need-met schools if full-pay. My daughter's NM corporate scholarship would have went toward loans or the student contribution at Smith, which is a 100% need-met school. I don't think Smith is unique in this. Harvard reduces students work and summer earnings expectation with outside awards before reducing Harvard grants. Same with U of Chicago. At Middlebury, the website says outside scholarships replace self-help first--work and loan requirements--before they will reduce grant aid. Also, it probably is easiest to get merit aid at lower-ranked schools that actively recruit top students, but there are top colleges that offer merit aid. Gwen in Va recently posted that her children went to Washington & Lee for very little--I think she said $15,000 for both total.

Those amts are not the amts I am referring to. I am referring to the parental EFC. I do not think many schools give institutional grants reducing EFC on top of outside scholarships. (When your EFC is 10s of thousands beyond your ability to pay, outside scholarships are not going to realistically reduce your contribution at most need- based only schools.)

 

In terms of merit scholarships, the best source is usually the institution itself. Yes, some of the higher ranked schools do offer merit scholarships. The question is how do the scholarships actually impact over all cost. For example, our ds was offered a huge merit scholarship from one school, but when all was said and done,I think our costs would have been the same regardless bc they offered a small institutional grant on top of that to bring down the total to meet our need. W/o the scholarship, it at least looks on paper like our grant $$ would have just increased.

 

What Gwen describes at W&L sounds fabulous, but most likely extremely competitive as well. I remember looking at their website a few yrs ago and what they wanted from homeschoolers was no small matter. Most students are not at that level.

 

Automatic merit with the ability to stack on top through programs and depts can definitely reduce total costs quickly. Is it the only way? No. But these schools also typically ha e rolling admissions and the competition for the other scholarships is narrower....usually top students who have to have merit $$ to attend., not as a want, but a necessity. At least that has been our experience. It makes for a great application strategy in case your other options end up as not viable.

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Yep, those are the equivalent state universities.  Bridgewater seems to be the only one with Anthro, though.  Her summer Field School was at Salem State (even though it doesn't have an Anthro major - I think it was just close to the wreck).  I took Conversational Spanish my senior year of high school at Framingham State. :)

 

 

I noticed Bridgewater also has Early Action.  That might be a good way to go too, as it's not binding, but it would give her that peace of mind.  Need to do the NPC on UVM - the sticker price is over double the price of Bridgewater!  Does look like it has a very nice program.  The UVM website has a bit higher stats listed than the Niche page, though, so maybe she's more like 65th-70th percentile there?  Her stats do make the cut-off for merit scholarships, but they're not automatic, so still no guarantee.  And we'd have to get a lot of $$ to make up over half the sticker price... 

 

 

It looks like you're starting to generate a workable group of options now!  Bridgewater sounds like and excellent option if she gets in there, and some back ups to it like Salem State if not... even if not perfect in terms of major available etc. for some at least doable in terms of cost and likely to get in to at least one of them, esp with what seems like it will now be a super chance at being a research assistant.

 

Then some places like UVM that might be more of a reach in terms of getting in and $$$ but may still work out.  Though may or may not actually be better fits than Bridgewater over all.  The place I'd looked up BW said it has one of lowest in state $$$ in country, so it is likely that many places will seem pricey compared to that.   I know our options here even in state for us are higher cost.

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Those amts are not the amts I am referring to. I am referring to the parental EFC. I do not think many schools give institutional grants reducing EFC on top of outside scholarships. (When your EFC is 10s of thousands beyond your ability to pay, outside scholarships are not going to realistically reduce your contribution at most need- based only schools.)

 

In terms of merit scholarships, the best source is usually the institution itself. Yes, some of the higher ranked schools do offer merit scholarships. The question is how do the scholarships actually impact over all cost. For example, our ds was offered a huge merit scholarship from CWRU, but when all was said and done,I think our costs would have been the same regardless bc they offered a small institutional grant on top of that to bring down the total to meet our need. W/o the scholarship, it at least looks on paper like our grant $$ would have just increased.

 

What Gwen describes at W&L sounds fabulous, but most likely extremely competitive as well. I remember looking at their website a few yrs ago and what they wanted from homeschoolers was no small matter. Most students are not at that level.

 

Automatic merit with the ability to stack on top through programs and depts can definitely reduce total costs quickly. Is it the only way? No. But these schools also typically ha e rolling admissions and the competition for the other scholarships is narrower....usually top students who have to have merit $$ to attend., not as a want, but a necessity. At least that has been our experience. It makes for a great application strategy in case your other options end up as not viable.

 

 

I'm finding this confusing.  Partly, I guess, each student/family has a unique situation.

 

It sounds like your situation is that your EFC is very high (too high) compared to your family's actual ability to help pay.  I am imagining something like if an EFC says you should pay 40k out of 60k total, and an outside merit scholarship might only bring down the student part of the equation by 10k out of 20k that the overall situation of where family is expected to meet 40k, but cannot, does not change...   Or even if the outside merit help brought it down 25k, it would still leave 35K for family which still might be way too much.  Is that the idea more or less?

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I don't understand your scenario.

 

A simple way of explaining it would be to think of financial contributions as having 2 main parts. There is the student contribution and the parental contribution. A typical freshman student FA breakdown might have something like a $3500 student loan, $2000 work study, and $2000 student contribution. Say the parental contribution is expected to be $25,000. The school has offered $30,000 in institutional grant. Total cost of the school is $62,500, now minus the $30,000 grant.

 

Say the student won an amazing outside $20,000 scholarship. At schools which allow the outside scholarship to reduce student contribution, that $7500 would be eliminated. (Not all schools have this practice though. You have to ask the school specifically how they deal with outside scholarships. Some might eliminate the work study and loan, but not the student contribution. Some might not reduce any student expected contribution.) The remaining $12,500 now reduces the grant money by $12,500 and the institutional grant is now $17,500. The parental contribution is still $25,000. At another school, the entire $20,000 might reduce the institutional gran $20,000 and the school now only offers $10,000 in grant $ and the net difference to the student and parents is $0.

 

I am simply clarifying bc many people are under the illusion that scholarship $$ does not influence FA packages and that that $$ can replace the expected parental contribution. It does not work that way at many schools. There is no universal answer. You have to investigate school by school. But many students work hard on outside scholarship applications only to end up with no better financial situation.

 

For our family personally, we can only afford about 1/4 -1/3 of our EFC (not counting the student contribution.) The only realistic option our kids have is to find schools which reduce our costs, not just theirs.

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Not spending a lot of energy trying to get merit aid without knowing it will actually help the over all financial picture makes sense to me.

 

Is that sort of a gap between EFC and only being able to afford 1/4-1/3 of it typical these days?

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Not spending a lot of energy trying to get merit aid without knowing it will actually help the over all financial picture makes sense to me.

 

Is that sort of a gap between EFC and only being able to afford 1/4-1/3 of it typical these days?

 

Is it typical?  I don't know if it is typical, but I know a lot of people in this situation. 

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Matroyshka, congratulations to your daughter on her accomplishments!  It seems that you're beginning to entertain schools out of your original search area.  If you could consider schools within a reasonable flight distance, she might have many more options.  Most school breaks are known well in advance, so you can plan for flights and all.  As she's interested in a water based field, it would be great if she could be somewhere she can be on or in the water year-round.  If she's open to schools in the south, she may want to check out this one.  Less than $30K total for OOS.  http://uwf.edu/cassh/departments/anthropology-and-archaeology/undergraduate-majors/ba-maritime-studies/     She can run it by her "chemist".

 

Sorry, another link I can't get to work.  Google UWF Maritime studies.  Texas A&M is a few thousand more, but ACT 29 is top 75%.  Either or both may offer some merit.

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Is it typical?  I don't know if it is typical, but I know a lot of people in this situation. 

 

 

That sucks.

 

I'm thinking having kids spread in age adds to it.  One family I knew with 5 kids very close in age had them such that there were only 8ish years from time first entered college to time last one left, so the yearly EFC got divided up.  Say with your example, if the EFC was 25K, but 3 were in school at a time, that ended up being less than 9K per each child in school for family contrib.   That let the grant or merit or whatever there was help a lot more.  Especially if the merit then allowed a child to have work go back to the general familial coffers. 200K is still a lot, but if the kids had been spaced in age so that only one was in school at a time it would have been more like 500K contrib from the family expected--to get the same 5 kids through at the same EFC amount.  At least as I understood it.

 

I only have 1 and am poor enough that if he can get in to a top sort of school he will go free, but I don't know he will be able to do that.  More likely he will only make it in to our local university, which will be more expensive given my nearer to poverty level finances.

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I would check out UVM. I thought it was ME that had conifers lol? It,s hills and cows that VM has. She might well get enough aid that UVM is the equivalent of UMass Amherst. This has happened before...

 

Nan

 

LOL.  I'm not even sure she's even been to Vermont (wait - she says she went up there in the winter once with some friends).  We will definitely have to go visit - I'm thinking of combining it with a trip to Concordia in Montreal (even though that's low on the list at the moment - it'll be fun to visit Montreal! :) )

 

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If she attends Bridgewater for a year or two and then transfers to a different college, would it be any different than attending a solid community college for a year or two?  Both would have possible issues with credit transfer.  But both would also let her take some classes, while narrowing down what she wants to do.  

 

In other words, if you think that Bridgewater is an acceptable choice, maybe it's something to go with.

 

On the other hand, I would probably want to know where the anthropology majors have gone after graduation. 

 

 

One other thought is that it might be worth a road trip to PA, OH or VA to look at some other schools.  I would say that the responses I get from my rising senior about college apps aren't always fully reasoned out.  I think that there is a lot more fear of missing out or fear of making a wrong decision in the college search process now than there was back 25+ years ago.

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One more idea (I'm just nattering away in the background here.... :laugh: )--out of your driving range, but still sort of your general neck of the woods--Memorial University of Newfoundland has excellent anthropology, archaeology, and linguistics departments (and music as well, which you'd mentioned earlier). In fact, the archaeology programme is likely one of the best in this country. There's a tremendous focus on marine studies, they also have a campus in the UK so good opportunities for study abroad, the school is a good size, St. John's is a picturesque small city (though it helps if you like winter...)--an idea?

 

People I know who went to Memorial really loved it - the size and the town and the atmosphere -  and i know they have had some really top quality profs as well.

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