College Freshman- 14 vs 17 credits.

[Emmie]

Dd is in the process of signing up for her fall classes. She will be a freshman. From the beginning, she has been planning to major in biology. She wants to do something involving wildlife or environment conservation. I think she has been leaning towards graduate school in zoology/biology/etc.

 

One of the "kinks" in the signing up process has been a required seminar. It is a freshman seminar that is a 3 credit class. When you add that class along with 3 other classes she needs to be taking in the fall for her bio major (Bio, chem, math), she has 14 credits. When she met with her advisor, she said she was going to try and take an additional class, even though it would be 17 vs 16 credits, because she didn't want to fall behind and she was also planning to double major (she is leaning towards environmental science, but has also considered world religion) ... He advised her to heavily consider staying at 14 credits, because she was a freshman and would be adjusting to college life in the fall.

 

 

Any opinions? Dd says she would be much more comfortable not adding any additional credits if she was atleast at 15 credits, but 14 sounds like too little. She doesn't want to end up overloading herself, but she also wonders if it is smart to not take intro to environmental science if she is considering majoring in it. She had also considered taking Chinese, since that is the language she took in High School and she will need a language to graduate anyway....

 

 

Opinions? How much more work would that one additional credit be in comparison to the average 16 credits? Did anyones child take 17 credits as a freshman?

[regentrude]

Colleges vary and courses vary, so no blanket answer is possible.

However: the three courses she is taking, math, bio. and chemistry, are hard classes, if they are regular college level, and they are time consuming classes. I assume bio and chem include labs, which take up a lot of time even though they may not count many (or any) credit hours. Together with the freshmen seminar, this makes a tough load for a student.

I would advise her to start with these classes and not enroll for an extra one. If she handles this load fine, she can always take more classes next semester. Since her academic advisor counsels her to stick with the 14 hours, I would heed his words and do so. Please remember that one hour in class requires approximately 2 hours of work outside of class, and while there are classes for which this is overestimating, in my experience math and science classes definitely require this much.

[Gwen in VA]

One option is for her to sign up for 17 credits but be really vigilant about the assumed workload of the various classes. If it looks like the workload will be too much, she can drop the last class. If she goes this route, she just needs to be VERY aware of when the last day to drop a class is!

 

Both of my older kids took insane loads the first semester of their freshman years. (One had the bribe of a great internship if she managed to take certain classes which required her to overload; one wanted the challenge.) They both did really well despite their advisors' concerns. It definitely can be done!

 

 

[Emmie]

Colleges vary and courses vary, so no blanket answer is possible.

However: the three courses she is taking, math, bio. and chemistry, are hard classes, if they are regular college level, and they are time consuming classes. I assume bio and chem include labs, which take up a lot of time even though they may not count many (or any) credit hours. Together with the freshmen seminar, this makes a tough load for a student.

I would advise her to start with these classes and not enroll for an extra one. If she handles this load fine, she can always take more classes next semester. Since her academic advisor counsels her to stick with the 14 hours, I would heed his words and do so. Please remember that one hour in class requires approximately 2 hours of work outside of class, and while there are classes for which this is overestimating, in my experience math and science classes definitely require this much.

 

The classes are introductory chem and bio (chem 101 and "bio concepts", both are lab and are a part of a 2 semester sequence) and Precalculus. Dd has chosen to retake PreCalc this year because a health issue over the winter distracted her from focusing on math. And I don't think the labs count for any of the credit hours (both science classes are 4 credits)

[Emmie]

One option is for her to sign up for 17 credits but be really vigilant about the assumed workload of the various classes. If it looks like the workload will be too much, she can drop the last class. If she goes this route, she just needs to be VERY aware of when the last day to drop a class is!

 

Both of my older kids took insane loads the first semester of their freshman years. (One had the bribe of a great internship if she managed to take certain classes which required her to overload; one wanted the challenge.) They both did really well despite their advisors' concerns. It definitely can be done!

She has been leaning towards this, the only problem now is trying to decide if it would be a horrible idea to take three science classes (adding in intro to enviro science) during her first semester at college. She was trying to decide between that class and chinese.

[regentrude]

The classes are introductory chem and bio (chem 101 and "bio concepts", both are lab and are a part of a 2 semester sequence) and Precalculus. Dd has chosen to retake PreCalc this year because a health issue over the winter distracted her from focusing on math. And I don't think the labs count for any of the credit hours (both science classes are 4 credits)

 

Well, if it's only precalc and she is familiar with the material already, that alters the picture. In that case, I would not expect math to be a time consuming class and possibly go for the extra course.

 

[Emmie]

Well, if it's only precalc and she is familiar with the material already, that alters the picture. In that case, I would not expect math to be a time consuming class and possibly go for the extra course.

 

That is what I was thinking, too. Do you think it would be wiser to stick with Chinese as her extra course, or would enviro science be okay? They are both 3 credits.

[regentrude]

That is what I was thinking, too. Do you think it would be wiser to stick with Chinese as her extra course, or would enviro science be okay? They are both 3 credits.

 

Workload depends entirely on the course. Has she looked at previous syllabi? I have no idea what "environmental science" entails. How heavy a language class is depends on the prof.

[AngieW in Texas]

I have always encouraged my kids to sign up for one more class than they need (scholarship requires 15 credit hours) so they have the ability to drop one if necessary. The course that is dropped has to be dropped in the first two weeks.

 

My middle dd signed up for 18 hours her first semester. She signed up for one class beyond the 15 credit hours required just to humor me. That was going to be the class that she dropped. It ended up exciting her so much that she changed her major to speech therapy. The class she dropped was biology. She said the only reason she was able to make it through the first class (the only one she attended) was because she knew that she could drop it as soon as the class was over. She just went to the scholarship office first to get permission to go under the required hours for her first semester, which they readily gave. They had said in orientation that it's fairly typical for first or second semester freshmen to take just 14 hours instead of 15. 

 

Every semester, the class that she was sure was going to be the one she was going to drop ended up being the class she kept and a different one got dropped.

 

Last semester (her 4th) was the first time she kept all of her classes and that was because a 3-credit hour class she had signed up for didn't make and she replaced it with a 1-credit hour class (her favorite of the semester) so that she ended up with 16 credit hours.

[Emmie]

I have always encouraged my kids to sign up for one more class than they need (scholarship requires 15 credit hours) so they have the ability to drop one if necessary. The course that is dropped has to be dropped in the first two weeks.

 

My middle dd signed up for 18 hours her first semester. She signed up for one class beyond the 15 credit hours required just to humor me. That was going to be the class that she dropped. It ended up exciting her so much that she changed her major to speech therapy. The class she dropped was biology. She said the only reason she was able to make it through the first class (the only one she attended) was because she knew that she could drop it as soon as the class was over. She just went to the scholarship office first to get permission to go under the required hours for her first semester, which they readily gave. They had said in orientation that it's fairly typical for first or second semester freshmen to take just 14 hours instead of 15. 

 

Every semester, the class that she was sure was going to be the one she was going to drop ended up being the class she kept and a different one got dropped.

 

Last semester (her 4th) was the first time she kept all of her classes and that was because a 3-credit hour class she had signed up for didn't make and she replaced it with a 1-credit hour class (her favorite of the semester) so that she ended up with 16 credit hours.

Thank you for sharing your dds experience! My Dd has decided to try and contact the advisor she met with, and if "intro to enviro science" does not need to be taken as a freshman for enviro science majors, she is going to keep chinese as her "extra" class, and be well aware of the drop period. :)

[Pegasus]

There is no blanket answer to how many credits would be too many to take.  A serious student without too much of a social life could handle more than a student interested in taking part in lots of extracurricular campus activities and/or that was also working significant hours. I took up to 19 credit hours my freshman year and handled it fine. . .but I didn't start working a campus job or get to know people well enough to have friends to hang out with until sophomore year.  :laugh:

 

It's also best to balance difficult/technical courses with less technical elective requirements.  I would personally NOT try to take 3 science courses at the same time.  

 

 

[Emmie]

There is no blanket answer to how many credits would be too many to take.  A serious student without too much of a social life could handle more than a student interested in taking part in lots of extracurricular campus activities and/or that was also working significant hours. I took up to 19 credit hours my freshman year and handled it fine. . .but I didn't start working a campus job or get to know people well enough to have friends to hang out with until sophomore year.  :laugh:

 

It's also best to balance difficult/technical courses with less technical elective requirements.  I would personally NOT try to take 3 science courses at the same time.  

:laugh: Dd is very introverted and has never been too interested in having one million social activities. She enjoys quiet time in her room, so I am sure she will have some more time to devote to studying... I guess I big determiner on how much time she will have will depend on whether or not she gets the scholarship she has applied for (she should find out within a week). If she gets it, she doesn't need to have a job her first semester, so that would greatly increase her chances of being able to handle 17 credits.

[Barbara H]

This is a question that is really hard to give a general answer to because so many individual factors come into play.   Relevant considerations for me would include:
Overall academic strengths - Is the student a fast learner or tend to take more time to master concepts?

Academic background - Have they been in a lot of structured situations before like community college or is this one of the first graded experiences?

Organizational skills - Am I confident they are ready to "hit the ground running" or will it take some time to learn study and time management skills?
Other obligations - How busy will the student be? Will the student be working, playing a sport, family responsibilities, involved in a lot of activities?

Overall maturity - Is the student focused or will they be likely to be distracted with fun stuff, partying, etc.?

Challenges - Does the student have any learning disabilities or health concerns?

Scholarship - Does the student have a merit scholarship that requires a certain GPA to maintain?

 

 

That is what I was thinking, too. Do you think it would be wiser to stick with Chinese as her extra course, or would enviro science be okay? They are both 3 credits.

 

Obviously, it depends on the college, but at my alma mater, intro Chinese was a very, very hard class, and required a lot time out of class studying, and pronunciation practice in the language lab.  I would also want to know if any of these pre-req classes are also offered 2nd semester -- so if she doesn't take them in the fall, does she have to wait a whole year?  Also, does she plan to take classes next summer?  That would also factor into my advice.

 

Also, if she could find an "environmental science majors" club, or something like that, it is incredibly valuable to find students ahead of you in your program.  These students can often give better advice than advisors.

[Emmie]

Obviously, it depends on the college, but at my alma mater, intro Chinese was a very, very hard class, and required a lot time out of class studying, and pronunciation practice in the language lab.  I would also want to know if any of these pre-req classes are also offered 2nd semester -- so if she doesn't take them in the fall, does she have to wait a whole year?  Also, does she plan to take classes next summer?  That would also factor into my advice.

 

Also, if she could find an "environmental science majors" club, or something like that, it is incredibly valuable to find students ahead of you in your program.  These students can often give better advice than advisors.

Dd took some chinese in HS, so she already understands pinyin, basic grammar, etc (she would try and test out of beginning chinese but we never focused on character writing). 

 

This is a question that is really hard to give a general answer to because so many individual factors come into play.   Relevant considerations for me would include:

Overall academic strengths - Is the student a fast learner or tend to take more time to master concepts? She tends to catch on very quickly.

Academic background - Have they been in a lot of structured situations before like community college or is this one of the first graded experiences? No CC classes but she did online HS classes

Organizational skills - Am I confident they are ready to "hit the ground running" or will it take some time to learn study and time management skills? She has EXCELLENT time management skills. Its perhaps the best thing she is bringing to college! 

Other obligations - How busy will the student be? Will the student be working, playing a sport, family responsibilities, involved in a lot of activities? This is the big question.... Whether or not she will need a part time job. I think that will play a big role in whether or not she can do well with so many credits.

Overall maturity - Is the student focused or will they be likely to be distracted with fun stuff, partying, etc.? My take on this is that dd is often too focused.  :lol: She really is a homebody also

Challenges - Does the student have any learning disabilities or health concerns? no disabilities, minimal health concerns

Scholarship - Does the student have a merit scholarship that requires a certain GPA to maintain? no.

Thanks for those questions! They were good to go through and think about :-)

[Jennay]

If she has good study habits then I think taking 17 credits would be fine. My first semester of college I was in a similar situation as your dd and went with the lower amount of credit hours that everyone advised me to take. I ended up regretting that decision as I had gone to a very demanding high school and the work load freshman year was much, much less. I could have easily taken that extra class. Instead I had to take it over the summer (more $$) in order to graduate in 4 years. Are there any Social Science distribution classes that she needs to take? That might be a nice balance to her math & science courses.

[G5052]

Yes, I took 17 credits my first semester and had 17-19 almost every semester after that, even when I transferred and had all STEM classes.

 

You just need to make it clear that she can drop a class if it gets to be too much.  There is no shame in doing that.

 

Mine has 16, and the advisor gave us the "adjusting to college" talk too.  He thought that 14 or 15 would be better, but I overruled. Mine also is retaking precalculus, has a first-semester seminar, and English 101, all of which he'll breeze through. 

[mom31257]

I had an advisor load me up with 18 hours my first semester. It was a nightmare. I just wasn't ready for being in such a social setting with my peers and getting myself up for class with that kind of workload. I went to a Christian college and didn't "party", but I did spend too much time with friends and not studying. Because I had excellent grades and scores, he assumed I was something I wasn't.

 

We are advising dd take only 14 hours her first semester. She did a few dual enrollment classes this past year and took a 2 week honors program which included 6 hours elective credit. If those classes transfer, then she already has 15 hours. We did those things to help offset giving her an easier first year. We will do the same with ds. 

 

 

 

 

 

[ThisIsTheDay]

My dd entered college with 16 credits from community college (dual enrollment).  It was unexpectedly a huge advantage for her, and she took just 13 credits her first semester. She is not social, but her more relaxed schedule gave her time to settle in and adjust without having to consider even one more class. I'm expecting my second child will do the same.

 

I see the advantage of registering for one extra class and dropping that within the first two weeks, although that would have made those first couple of weeks away at school that much more stressful for her.

[emzhengjiu]

Public colleges and universities in Texas have a 6 drop maximum for the first 4 years.   I was shocked to find out about this policy.  When I was in college, I thought nothing about dropping classes.  Thankfully, this rule doesn't apply to dual credit students such as my daughter.

[regentrude]

I see the advantage of registering for one extra class and dropping that within the first two weeks

 

Just be aware that many schools do not charge a flat fee, but bill by the credit hour. Withdrawing during the second week of classes at our school means you get a refund of 70%. So, dropping a four credit hour class wastes several hundred dollars.

It may be worth it to some, but one should be aware that it is not free.

[go_go_gadget]

Well, if it's only precalc and she is familiar with the material already, that alters the picture. In that case, I would not expect math to be a time consuming class and possibly go for the extra course.

 

 

This really depends on the instructor. I've had professors who assign zero homework and expect students to practice without guidance, and professors who assign a load of homework that takes quite a bit of time to get through, even if the material is easy. These professors were at the same university.

[Brenda in MA]

Both of mine have taken 17 credits the fall of their freshman year.  That was the normal load for the STEM majors they were/are in.  Both of them had excellent preparation at home and had done outside and CC classes.  They both worked hard, but they did well. 

 

I think you've gotten good advice -- particularly to look at your dd's strengths and go from there.  Also see how easy it is to drop a class.  Personally, I might be a little concerned about the Chinese, but since she has had some before, it might be OK.  You might also see if you can find out somehow what the language classes are like at that school (maybe ratemyprofessor or college confidential, or better if you know some current students, as them and their friends).  If Chinese seems like it might be tough, maybe see if there is another liberal arts requirement, like psychology, that she could take instead of another science.  I'd be concerned with how much lab work might be required if she took 3 science classes.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

 

[AngieW in Texas]

In Texas, that 6 drop limit doesn't apply to courses dropped before the census date and it doesn't apply to dual credit classes either.

 

I didn't consider the added cost of the partial refund for classes dropped before the census date. It didn't really apply to my older girls because they had full tuition scholarships and their school charges per credit hour only up to 15 credit hours. Anything you sign up for at UTD beyond 15 credit hours is free. 

[Emmie]

Both of mine have taken 17 credits the fall of their freshman year.  That was the normal load for the STEM majors they were/are in.  Both of them had excellent preparation at home and had done outside and CC classes.  They both worked hard, but they did well. 

 

I think you've gotten good advice -- particularly to look at your dd's strengths and go from there.  Also see how easy it is to drop a class.  Personally, I might be a little concerned about the Chinese, but since she has had some before, it might be OK.  You might also see if you can find out somehow what the language classes are like at that school (maybe ratemyprofessor or college confidential, or better if you know some current students, as them and their friends).  If Chinese seems like it might be tough, maybe see if there is another liberal arts requirement, like psychology, that she could take instead of another science.  I'd be concerned with how much lab work might be required if she took 3 science classes.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

She has decided to stick with her original plan: Bio Concepts, Chem 101, PreCalc, Seminar, Chinese.

 

She feels most confident taking Chinese over other classes, because some of it will be review. She already has a firm understanding of pinyin, tone marks, basic grammar, and basic vocabulary.

 

The drop period is 3 weeks, so she said she is going to be very vigilant of keeping track of her schedule, free time, etc during those three weeks to see if her course load is feasible for the entire semester. :-)

[emzhengjiu]

In Texas, that 6 drop limit doesn't apply to courses dropped before the census date and it doesn't apply to dual credit classes either.

 

I didn't consider the added cost of the partial refund for classes dropped before the census date. It didn't really apply to my older girls because they had full tuition scholarships and their school charges per credit hour only up to 15 credit hours. Anything you sign up for at UTD beyond 15 credit hours is free. 

This is much better that what I was told by my daughter's dual credit advisor.  It's more like what I would have called a withdrawal not a drop when I was in college.  I didn't investigate further since my DD is still a dual credit student.

[wonderchica]

There's also something like a PE class, which was 1 credit when I was in school. We were required to take 2 of them. Good way to have some pre-scheduled exercise and a no pressure credit.

[bettyandbob]

There's also something like a PE class, which was 1 credit when I was in school. We were required to take 2 of them. Good way to have some pre-scheduled exercise and a no pressure credit.

 

My university required 4, but PE activity credits did not count toward academic credit for graduation, so I never counted them when I was figuring how many credits I was taking for the semester.