I'm getting whiny about biology labs

[Miss Mousie]

I bought Exploring How Life Works and Campbell's Concepts and Connections, and plan to use the Quirks and Quarks (or is it Quarks and Quirks?) plans.  I also printed the Illustrated Guide to Home Biology Labs that is often linked here (probably got that name wrong, too).

 

Here's the whiny part:  labs.  It will cost me roughly $500 to buy a microscope and the various supplies.  And I don't want to!  I hate labs!  That's an awful lot of money for, what, 20 hours tops?  And I am clumsy and uncoordinated and haven't touched any sort of real science equipment in nearly 30 years.

 

But DS (14, 9th grade) is very much a hands-on guy, and I think he'd rather mess around with real slides, etc. than just look at photos.  (Although when I told him we'd have to do our labs once a month on a Sunday, he balked - "but that's my day off!"  Um, mine too... :glare: ).

 

Part of me wants to skimp severely on the labs and just do what we can with what we have - I'm not even sure anything fits in this category.

 

Part of me wants to skip labs entirely and let him do Chem and Physics with lab at a CC a few years from now.  But he leans strongly in the direction of engineering, and I don't want to handicap him with insufficient science experience.

 

I don't want to do Landry's 2-day intensive.  We are strictly secular.  And he can't do partial enrollment at the high school.

 

No matter what, we will not do dissections - he and I agree completely on that one.  We'll do Froguts or Late Nite Labs.

 

I haven't asked his opinion.  He gets touchy about money, and he is all for skimping on schoolwork anywhere possible.  (Time for the glare again:  :glare: )  ETA:  He also would gladly skip writing a lab report if he could get away with it.

 

I think the help I need is this:  either give me a kick in the pants and tell me to get my act together, or give me some brilliant solution, please.

 

 

[alhsjej]

I feel the same way :)

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

Having similar issues, myself.  It does not help that this is my least motivated child.

[Miss Mousie]

So, maybe the three of us can start a No Labs Movement and change the face of education?   ;)

 

 

[retiredHSmom]

My son wants to be an engineer too. We did Landry Labs for Biology and he will do chem and physics with lab at the community college.  I count landry as skimping on labs (they do good labs bit still it is all done in 2 days and I haven't made my son follow up with lab reports) and I can't see how 2 years of college labs will be cheating him of lab experience.

 

I think that we are good.

[foxbridgeacademy]

First, I'd look to save on the microscope.  There are some decent Amscopes for sale on amazon. Here is one for under $100 that should work fine.  Here's the one I bought (I love it) for $200. You can get a set of 25 prepared slides for $15.  

 

When I was considering doing Illustrated Home Guide for Chemistry I figured up the cost and was astounded by how $$$ it was for the chemicals.  I went through the actual experiments and picked out the ones I would do and was able to cut a huge amount off that because the ones I picked  used readily available chemicals (from Lowes) and glassware.

 

So I suggest you go through and pick out the experiments you want to do and price the supplies separately and see if there's any saving there.

[regentrude]

My kids do labs in physics and chemistry, but we don't do labs in biology. The transcript clearly states which courses had a lab. No college cared, and the lack of a biology lab did not prevent DD from being accepted to a top school.

 

ETA: I hate labs, but I would gladly incorporate them if my child was interested. They both don't like labs either and are not interested in biology, so I figured two sciences with lab suffice. We will do some virtual labs for bio, which I do not consider real labs.

 

 

[foxbridgeacademy]

My kids do labs in physics and chemistry, but we don't do labs in biology. The transcript clearly states which courses had a lab. No college cared, and the lack of a biology lab did not prevent DD from being accepted to a top school.

 

ETA: I hate labs, but I would gladly incorporate them if my child was interested. They both don't like labs either and are not interested in biology, so I figured two sciences with lab suffice. We will do some virtual labs for bio, which I do not consider real labs.

One of the Colleges we are considering requires Biology Lab the other requires Bio and Chem if you plan on majoring in Science.  I wonder if it's just my state?

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

HeeHee---my son who is a very hands on kind of person just despises labs.  He will do the bare minimum for them.  It does not inspire me to spend the money.  I do have a good microscope (it was my Dad's, who was a science geek), but it needs a new light and the modern commercial replacement lights are probably not compatible.  So, will have to rig something (actually ds is looking forward to inventing a steam punk replacement).  I was geeking a bit about doing bio with him, but now I've lost my zest for it.  His lack of enthusiasm has rubbed off.

 

Rather than no or skimpy labs...I'm kind of wondering, pondering over the possibility of more of a project based approach to the microscope work.  Something that is not a demonstration or doesn't have predictable results.  Something he invents.  Hmmm....just thinking aloud.  He is a problem-solver, so that sort of thing would be right up his alley.

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

I do have Digital Frog (got it off ebay)---so we will do that. 

 

Maybe some kind of ecology or biome project?

 

Just thinking---this child need to get some love for learning back.  The transition to high school work was super rough for both of us.

[Miss Mousie]

HeeHee---my son who is a very hands on kind of person just despises labs.  He will do the bare minimum for them.  It does not inspire me to spend the money.  I do have a good microscope (it was my Dad's, who was a science geek), but it needs a new light and the modern commercial replacement lights are probably not compatible.  So, will have to rig something (actually ds is looking forward to inventing a steam punk replacement).  I was geeking a bit about doing bio with him, but now I've lost my zest for it.  His lack of enthusiasm has rubbed off.

 

Rather than no or skimpy labs...I'm kind of wondering, pondering over the possibility of more of a project based approach to the microscope work.  Something that is not a demonstration or doesn't have predictable results.  Something he invents.  Hmmm....just thinking aloud.  He is a problem-solver, so that sort of thing would be right up his alley.

 

 

I do have Digital Frog (got it off ebay)---so we will do that. 

 

Maybe some kind of ecology or biome project?

 

Just thinking---this child need to get some love for learning back.  The transition to high school work was super rough for both of us.

 

Agreeing with the bolded parts.

 

I suspect that if I asked DS his preference, he'd say he doesn't want to do labs - even if I tell him he doesn't have to write reports.

 

So now I'm thinking of scrapping the lab portion completely (but I will ask DS first).  He is not particularly interested in biology, and could surely use another year of getting better/more comfortable with writing before I demand lab reports.

 

I really like the idea of a project.  That might soothe my mental refrains of "he must experience it to actually learn it" and "I'm a stinky teacher if I show him I don't care enough to put in that much effort" as well as give him something real on which to hang whatever related new info he learns.

 

I just really wish I could be Ruth in NZ sometimes.  :)

[Miss Mousie]

I'm having a hard time convincing myself that not *everything* has to be A-1, first rate.

 

And I feel guilty for paying more attention to what's comfortable/convenient for me instead of what's best for him, even if it doesn't matter one bit to him/his future.

 

So far, y'all are helping me come down a little bit.  I guess the biologists don't log on until evening?  ;)

 

 

[Miss Mousie]

My son wants to be an engineer too. We did Landry Labs for Biology and he will do chem and physics with lab at the community college.  I count landry as skimping on labs (they do good labs bit still it is all done in 2 days and I haven't made my son follow up with lab reports) and I can't see how 2 years of college labs will be cheating him of lab experience.

 

I think that we are good.

 

Good point.  Thanks.

[ktgrok]

Here is what I'm gong to do (and your son sounds like mine). I'm going to have him do some microscope stuff at the local veterinarian's office, where I used to work. I'm sure if I ask they will let him come in and look at some cool stuff, like blood cells, parasites, etc. Probably let him help do some heartworm tests as well, and observe a surgery if he wants. Then he will go fishing with his Grandpa, and they can dissect a fish (and then eat it, lol). And another animal listed on the typical labs is a squid...they can do that out on the boat as well as squid is often used for bait and available at the bait shop. They could look at shrimp too,and the different parts. Any other bio work will either be field study stuff or done with a small, inexpensive microscope, like a pocket scope. 

 

Plus, I paid for the access to the online labs that go with the Miller Levine text, via Kolbe. I also paid for the "how to write a lab report" book they sell. 

 

Is that stuff the 'typical" way to do a lab? No. But I don't see how it is any worse. And it won't cost me hundreds of dollars, and he will enjoy doing it. 

[Miss Mousie]

Here is what I'm gong to do (and your son sounds like mine). I'm going to have him do some microscope stuff at the local veterinarian's office, where I used to work. I'm sure if I ask they will let him come in and look at some cool stuff, like blood cells, parasites, etc. Probably let him help do some heartworm tests as well, and observe a surgery if he wants. Then he will go fishing with his Grandpa, and they can dissect a fish (and then eat it, lol). And another animal listed on the typical labs is a squid...they can do that out on the boat as well as squid is often used for bait and available at the bait shop. They could look at shrimp too,and the different parts. Any other bio work will either be field study stuff or done with a small, inexpensive microscope, like a pocket scope. 

 

Plus, I paid for the access to the online labs that go with the Miller Levine text, via Kolbe. I also paid for the "how to write a lab report" book they sell. 

 

Is that stuff the 'typical" way to do a lab? No. But I don't see how it is any worse. And it won't cost me hundreds of dollars, and he will enjoy doing it. 

 

Those are great ideas!  I do have a pocket scope, but it isn't very strong.  I'll have to think about what else we can do.

[ktgrok]

Those are great ideas!  I do have a pocket scope, but it isn't very strong.  I'll have to think about what else we can do.

 

Heck, go out for a fancy lobster dinner and "dissect it" while you eat :)

[Vida Winter]

I'm using the lab and student book from Homeschool Science Press in the fall - no experience with it yet but it looks very do-able. They have samples online - you could buy exactly what you need from Home Science Tools.

 

A few years ago we used the Illustrated Guide... and it was overkill for high school. The labs were too detailed and we did not do as many as I wanted to as a result.

[Mom22ns]

There is nothing you are supposed to look at through a microscope in Biology that you can't just google and find a clearer image of it online. The only thing you are missing by doing that is actually learning how to use a microscope. If you can get your child access to a microscope for a little practice, then look at the images online - you can save yourself the price of the microscope and slides.

[FriedClams]

We're doing the Landry Academy biology lab intensive. Two days of intensive labs - everything is included. :-)

[lisabees]

Thanks for posting this!  I am planning our Biology year and keep putting Labs at the bottom of the priority list.

 

Any thoughts on Froguts as an alternative?

 

As far as wet labs, I am thinking that we may do one dissection and one day at a local college, using their equipment.  

 

Tell me this is enough!

 

[Miss Mousie]

There is nothing you are supposed to look at through a microscope in Biology that you can't just google and find a clearer image of it online. The only thing you are missing by doing that is actually learning how to use a microscope. If you can get your child access to a microscope for a little practice, then look at the images online - you can save yourself the price of the microscope and slides.

 

I believe this is a first - the Hive actually SAVING me money!  :laugh:

 

Thank you so much.

 

[Arcadia]

Another way is to buy a family membership to a science center or lookout for free biology events at state parks. Other than oil immersion for microscopes, my kids have manage to do all kinds of dissections and prepare slides for planktons for free just by keeping a lookout for outreach events. The cow eye dissection was interesting for my boys.

 

E.g. of free outreach event

"We will become planktologists for a day, collect water samples and identify these incredible organisms under a microscope"

[Mom22ns]

Thanks for posting this!  I am planning our Biology year and keep putting Labs at the bottom of the priority list.

 

Any thoughts on Froguts as an alternative?

 

As far as wet labs, I am thinking that we may do one dissection and one day at a local college, using their equipment.  

 

Tell me this is enough!

 

Froguts is fantastic. I used it with my child that didn't want to do dissections. He learned so much more than he would have through an actual physical dissection. Dissections are not the bulk of Biology labs though. Froguts + a dissection does not constitute a lab course.

[StillStanding]

I have the equivalent of a masters degree in biological science, so no skipping biology labs at my house. I have 33 "labs" planned for this year :) There are a lots of "lab activities" that do not require a microscope or dissection. Science should be more than just reading a textbook. Labs are not just a hands on approach to science but also offer an opportunity to develop thinking skills. Lab reports help develop thinking skills. If you can't afford a microscope you may try to find a friend who can let you borrow it for a day (?). Just long enough to let your kid practice using one. I have also seen microscopes at state parks (nature programs) where anybody could use them. I agree with Momof2Ns that you can find better images at google images, so if you can practice how to use a microscope you can use google images for everything else. Skipping labs should not be an option. Many people do not like virtual labs, but I think they are better than not doing any labs whatsoever. Maybe Chemistry and Physics with labs will be enough. Here in TN we are required 3 sciences with labs to graduate. Sorry if I am not as supporting about "skipping labs" as everybody else.

[Mom22ns]

Sorry if I am not as supporting about "skipping labs" as everybody else.

 

Just to be clear, I don't think a microscope is necessary and I do think virtual dissections are good. However, I think Biology labs are far easier and cheaper than Chemistry labs. I too think labs are very important. As much as my kids weren't fans, we did at least a lab a week. 

[Tsuga]

I get that it would be a real pain in the butt.

 

However... what is science, but labs? Otherwise, you're kind of reading about science. You aren't actually doing any science... are you? I mean, if by lab you mean hands on work of collecting data, etc.

 

It doesn't have to be dissection (though frankly, I didn't like it but it was informative), but you need to be able to see how real life differs from a textbook. That's science.

 

That said I do empathize. There are parts of education we all have trouble with, I suppose, and yes it can be a slog. You want to have a pony, you end up doing some shoveling.

[Miss Mousie]

I have the equivalent of a masters degree in biological science, so no skipping biology labs at my house. I have 33 "labs" planned for this year :) There are a lots of "lab activities" that do not require a microscope or dissection. Science should be more than just reading a textbook. Labs are not just a hands on approach to science but also offer an opportunity to develop thinking skills. Lab reports help develop thinking skills. If you can't afford a microscope you may try to find a friend who can let you borrow it for a day (?). Just long enough to let your kid practice using one. I have also seen microscopes at state parks (nature programs) where anybody could use them. I agree with Momof2Ns that you can find better images at google images, so if you can practice how to use a microscope you can use google images for everything else. Skipping labs should not be an option. Many people do not like virtual labs, but I think they are better than not doing any labs whatsoever. Maybe Chemistry and Physics with labs will be enough. Here in TN we are required 3 sciences with labs to graduate. Sorry if I am not as supporting about "skipping labs" as everybody else.

 

I definitely agree that it is better to have them than not, and that they teach things other experiences don't. 

 

I need to get my google on and search for non-microscope/non-dissection ideas.  :)  I haven't even finished reading the Illustrated Guide yet, so there very well may be good possibilities there.

 

Thanks for chiming in!  This is not a JAWM thread.  :)

[Miss Mousie]

 

 You want to have a pony, you end up doing some shoveling.

 

This is fabulous.  :)

[Arcadia]

I need to get my google on and search for non-microscope/non-dissection ideas. :)

If your son like animals, look at places like mammal research center, zoo, aquarium, equine center, learning farms for docent opportunities.

My youngest like penguins but he has to wait until he is 13 to volunteer. He is more into marine biology.

 

If he likes plants then look for docent opportunities in arboretums.

 

It won't take care of all the lab requirements but it would be real life labs.

[ktgrok]

I'm wondering what you think of my idea to combine virtual labs (online) with hands on microscope work at the veterinary clinic, some observations of surgery, some observing or doing basic lab tests at the veterinary office, and then dissection of a fish, squid, and shrimp while out fishing with my father (who is a science nut...he should have been a biology teacher but didn't have the money for college, such a shame). some basic microscope stuff at home as well, that we can do with a pocket microscope.  Probably some field trips to marine science center, zoo, aquarium, etc during homeschool days. What else would you add, if that's not enough? Just curious. 

I have the equivalent of a masters degree in biological science, so no skipping biology labs at my house. I have 33 "labs" planned for this year :) There are a lots of "lab activities" that do not require a microscope or dissection. Science should be more than just reading a textbook. Labs are not just a hands on approach to science but also offer an opportunity to develop thinking skills. Lab reports help develop thinking skills. If you can't afford a microscope you may try to find a friend who can let you borrow it for a day (?). Just long enough to let your kid practice using one. I have also seen microscopes at state parks (nature programs) where anybody could use them. I agree with Momof2Ns that you can find better images at google images, so if you can practice how to use a microscope you can use google images for everything else. Skipping labs should not be an option. Many people do not like virtual labs, but I think they are better than not doing any labs whatsoever. Maybe Chemistry and Physics with labs will be enough. Here in TN we are required 3 sciences with labs to graduate. Sorry if I am not as supporting about "skipping labs" as everybody else.

 

[Penguin]

If you can download the free E.O. Wilson bio texts (itunes) , there are some good labs that are more like projects.

[StillStanding]

Here is what I'm gong to do (and your son sounds like mine). I'm going to have him do some microscope stuff at the local veterinarian's office, where I used to work. I'm sure if I ask they will let him come in and look at some cool stuff, like blood cells, parasites, etc. Probably let him help do some heartworm tests as well, and observe a surgery if he wants. Then he will go fishing with his Grandpa, and they can dissect a fish (and then eat it, lol). And another animal listed on the typical labs is a squid...they can do that out on the boat as well as squid is often used for bait and available at the bait shop. They could look at shrimp too,and the different parts. Any other bio work will either be field study stuff or done with a small, inexpensive microscope, like a pocket scope. 

 

Plus, I paid for the access to the online labs that go with the Miller Levine text, via Kolbe. I also paid for the "how to write a lab report" book they sell. 

 

Is that stuff the 'typical" way to do a lab? No. But I don't see how it is any worse. And it won't cost me hundreds of dollars, and he will enjoy doing it. 

 

I do not see anything wrong with what you have planned. The veterinarian office sounds great. The idea behind dissections is to observe how  different organs have evolved. I know many here do not believe in evolution. Biology students during a dissection should be able to identify the different organs in an array of different animals. So as long as your son is not just gutting the fish but actually identifying its organs it should be fine to do it outdoors on a fishing trip :) Same for the squid and the shrimp and lobster. Are you planning to do some virtual labs for the worm, frog and mammal (pig usually) dissections? Flowers can also be dissected. As mention before, Google Images is great for beautiful pictures of microscopic life, bacteria, and any kind of plant, and animal cell you like. It should not just be "looking" but actually noticing the differences. There are  tons of free resources out there. I have not clue on what is included in you online labs but the Miller and Levine is a good book so I would bet their virtual labs are good. I'd be happy to share my daughter's lab list if you need ideas. Simply send me a personal message with your email address.

[ktgrok]

I do not see anything wrong with what you have planned. The veterinarian office sounds great. The idea behind dissections is to observe how  different organs have evolved. I know many here do not believe in evolution. Biology students during a dissection should be able to identify the different organs in an array of different animals. So as long as your son is not just gutting the fish but actually identifying its organs it should be fine to do it outdoors on a fishing trip :) Same for the squid and the shrimp and lobster. Are you planning to do some virtual labs for the worm, frog and mammal (pig usually) dissections? Flowers can also be dissected. As mention before, Google Images is great for beautiful pictures of microscopic life, bacteria, and any kind of plant, and animal cell you like. It should not just be "looking" but actually noticing the differences. There are  tons of free resources out there. I have not clue on what is included in you online labs but the Miller and Levine is a good book so I would bet their virtual labs are good. I'd be happy to share my daughter's lab list if you need ideas. Simply send me a personal message with your email address.

 

Yes, definitely going to do some virtual dissections of mammals and other animals. And yes, it would be identifying organs, etc. Possibly even comparing different types of fish, etc. I'll make him do sketches and such as well. 

 

Thanks for the offer, I'l message you. 

[Miss Mousie]

I have now gone through the Q&Q plans more thoroughly.  There are plenty of easy, useable, illustrative labs that involve making observations, collecting data, drawing conclusions from the data, etc., and that require little in the way of new materials and supplies.  I should be able to get the few things I don't have from American Science & Surplus (sciplus.com) without great expense. 

 

I don't think I'll use anything from the Illustrated Guide, except maybe a follow-up question here & there.  I will, however, keep an eye out for local opportunities.

 

I can call it a lab science (assuming we do most of the ones I've already identified) and note the general topics in the course description.  If some college wants to dig deeper and then discount the lab designation, so be it.

 

Thank you all so much for helping me out!  The Hive has a knack for diffusing my panic by making me actually get down to business.  ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

:iagree: Yes, I think the list of links and stuff just looked overwhelming.  After going reading through the beginning weeks closely, it seems pretty do-able.  I'm consulting with my son.  We will do some of the Q & Q activities, sub out some others, and leave room for him to develop his own projects.  It's not that he's against "doing science," far from it.  It's that the labs he has done in the past have not been effective for nurturing his scientific curiosity. 

[lisabees]

Penguin, are the labs embedded in the E O Wilson biotexts?  I am having trouble navigating through all of the info.

[Penguin]

Penguin, are the labs embedded in the E O Wilson biotexts? I am having trouble navigating through all of the info.

Yes, they are at the end of each chapter and they are called Project Based Learning in the TOC.

[lisabees]

Yes, they are at the end of each chapter and they are called Project Based Learning in the TOC.

 

Thank you, thank you.