momof4babes Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I really need some advice as to how to deal with my almost 9 year old in particular. He is exhausting me, and sucking up the whole day. He is capable of doing his work if he wants to. One day when he wanted to go somewhere by noon, he was done both subjects in less than an hour. Everyday we are at math and English for 5-6 hours because he won't stay put! He is the master of bathroom breaks, unrelated conversation, "helping" younger siblings with tasks, and pretty much anything besides his work. I feel like a broken record! I'm completely neglecting any kind of work/play with my younger kids almost 4&6. My almost 11 year old who is thankfully very independent in her work feels like I am ignoring her. History, and science that I teach to everyone together has completely fallen off the grid. I'm an exhausted, frustrated mess by the end of the day. I fantasize about putting him back in school, but know it wouldn't be a good thing for him. He's just now finally starting to get the hang of reading. I'm open to any, and all suggestions at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto3boys Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'm not a huge help but my first inclination would be to make him sit where he is until his work is done (with reasonable breaks.) My 7 year old will fuss and whine and make excuses as long as I let him most days but today I told him he could sit where he was until the work I asked for was done and after 40 minutes or so of fit throwing (tearing up his copywork, etc) he did it and we were good. Have you tried that? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridge Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Have you tried tying school work to privileges? Give him a timer and set it for increasing amounts of time. In the beginning, he has to sit still (AND WORK) for 15 min at a time before he can have a short break. Gradually lengthen the time. Praise him for meeting the time and work goal! You can have a reward tied to meeting the goal. For instance, if he successfully sits and works for 10 blocks of time, he gets a date with daddy. There is also the flip side method of using removal of privileges: If he does not meet the goal (or fulfill his "responsibility" with regard to his academics), then he does not get x privilege (screen time, a special toy, extra bedtime story, etc... whatever is meaningful to him). It may take a few days for him to really understand the impact of his choices, but if you are firm he should be able to link his behavior with the consequences. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 We found that frequent breaks and changes were helpful to keep attention. At that age my boys worked more by the clock rather than the lesson. After 20 minutes on a subject, I would either send them out for a quick break on the trampoline or to run laps around the house or we would move to a totally different subject. We didn't do heavy book subjects back to back. Math then science then reading then art then grammar...that sort of thing. Lunch time was spent doing school, but the boys really never realized it :) We would watch a history/science/art video or listen to a book on tape while eating. Boys need to move A LOT! And there are few that age that are self motivated except by rewards (as you've experienced). Create rewards, add in a lot of movement (even if it's just to a different room), and mix it up a bit. Once the boys were older we used a "lesson" approach to the schedule. Oh, and if you do things by the clock, you can tell him that he cannot take a bathroom break until the time is up. I bought a cute little timer that they could watch so that they knew when they could bolt out of the room :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skueppers Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think it's possible that this could be resolved by finding the right discipline strategy, but I think it's worth focusing on one particular aspect of the problem: the impact it has on the rest of the family. I would focus first on mitigating the impact on others, by not allowing working with him to take up the whole day. Ideas like: * Setting a specific time to work with each kid. If that's not enough time for him, he can have more of your time later -- at some time when it is convenient for you. * Putting History or Science first most days, to make sure they get done. * Switching some of his lessons to independent formats, e.g. online, so they take less of your time. Then I might try to figure out why he is acting like this. Is his assigned work wrong for him in some way? Does he have learning disabilities that make things extra hard? Is there a way to work on these issues? Maybe he needs help developing self-discipline, but maybe what he needs is a curriculum/methodology change. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hugs! That does sound tough. DD14 was my escape artist - if I spent any time working with her brother, I would turn back to discover she had wandered off. I remember ages 8-10 being pretty rough. She was particularly good at taking advantage of MY being distracted and disappearing to play with the cat and dogs. Can you change your days around so that you actually have an hour or so to lock the two of you away somewhere with no distractions? That might mean that afternoon or evening activities need to be put on hold for this season so you can get the time to work with him alone. Do the group work (send him away if he disrupts the others) and concentrate on the other kids in the morning, then send them all off to play after lunch and dedicate the time to working with the 9yo one on one. No breaks, no interruptions and he doesn't get to run off and play until the work is done and completed satisfactorily. Sorry - ability to focus on schoolwork definitely improved as DD14 got older, so there is hope that while you might need to do lots of hand-holding now, that habit of "get 'er done!" will take root eventually, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 What I didn't understand about my son (11), is that some (many?) kids with focus/executive function issues can focus when they are super motivated by some reward. This doesn't mean they can do the same focus without the external motivation. I read the book Smart but Scattered. My son has major issues in many executive function areas, but goal directed persistence is one of his strong suits. I think this is why he is able to do what your son does. I don't think it's at all unusual for these types of kids. It puzzled me for a long time, though. You might be able to leverage his ability to focus with a goal in mind if you find the right motivator. I sit with my son for just about everything. In the last 6 months he has started doing a few things independently. It's encouraging! But almost every subject is still me right there with him, redirecting and focusing. I can see him slip off focus. He is starting to know too. We stop and exercise. Short bits (15 minutes) with exercise breaks (or breaks to work with his twin) was how I did school with him at 9. I still alternate between the kids to give him a break. (math with you, math with twin, LA with you, LA with twin, etc.) I do work with him while he eats. He eats slowly, so this works out for me. I guess it probably wouldn't otherwise. My suggestion then: After 15-20 minutes, I imagine you are operating with diminishing returns. Think short lessons with physical activity between them. In my experience it is less frustrating and time consuming to just sit with him. This will possibly improve w/age. But he doesn't sound independent now. Limit time with his lessons to attend to other kids. Let him go play when you're working with others.The break will probably help him. Say work with him right after breakfast (15 minutes, run around the house, 15 minutes, play basketball, etc.) and again right after lunch. Consider tying your history/science to meal, bedtime, or similar transition time. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Being able to do something in unusual circumstances (an event at 12) does not mean he can do it every day. I can cope with noise if I have to but if I had to do it every day I would self destruct. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenDaisies Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I feel your pain. My oldest daughter is my escape artist. I start math with her first thing and then leave her to work on her own until I have worked with my younger two. If I tried to work with oldest first it took all day and my lyounget ones had no time with me. That was ok when they were little, but they are of an age that they need me. I make her stay downstairs and work as best I can but she is quite good at sneaking or or finding an excuse. I have tried to be diligent about not letting her leave until her list is done, but honestly she can sit there all day and get almost nothing done. Taking things away seems to work best - not allowing her to play with friends or go places on the weekends until work is done. It's been a long road and I've seen some improvement but it wears you down. I keep hoping my persistence will pay off and that one day she will see how much free time she would have if she just got her work done. The other thing that has worked well for me is online classes. I had originally only planned to have her do writing online, but this year she is taking 4 classes. When someone else sets the deadline, she is much more willing and things get done on time. Those grades are real and she knows it. Unfortunately this often comes at the cost of the classes we do together, but at least something gets done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof4babes Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thank you for all the suggestions. I'm going to implement some of them next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tohru Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Maybe try workboxes with him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof4babes Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 What are work boxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 What I didn't understand about my son (11), is that some (many?) kids with focus/executive function issues can focus when they are super motivated by some reward. This doesn't mean they can do the same focus without the external motivation. I read the book Smart but Scattered. My son has major issues in many executive function areas, but goal directed persistence is one of his strong suits. I think this is why he is able to do what your son does. I don't think it's at all unusual for these types of kids. It puzzled me for a long time, though. You might be able to leverage his ability to focus with a goal in mind if you find the right motivator. I sit with my son for just about everything. In the last 6 months he has started doing a few things independently. It's encouraging! But almost every subject is still me right there with him, redirecting and focusing. I can see him slip off focus. He is starting to know too. We stop and exercise. Short bits (15 minutes) with exercise breaks (or breaks to work with his twin) was how I did school with him at 9. I still alternate between the kids to give him a break. (math with you, math with twin, LA with you, LA with twin, etc.) I do work with him while he eats. He eats slowly, so this works out for me. I guess it probably wouldn't otherwise. My suggestion then: After 15-20 minutes, I imagine you are operating with diminishing returns. Think short lessons with physical activity between them. In my experience it is less frustrating and time consuming to just sit with him. This will possibly improve w/age. But he doesn't sound independent now. Limit time with his lessons to attend to other kids. Let him go play when you're working with others.The break will probably help him. Say work with him right after breakfast (15 minutes, run around the house, 15 minutes, play basketball, etc.) and again right after lunch. Consider tying your history/science to meal, bedtime, or similar transition time. I second the recommendation to look at EF issues. Sometimes these things get better with age, but sometimes worse with the increasing demands of academics and LIFE. You got a lot of ideas to help but I suspect there might be an underlying issue. You will probably be able to accommodate it to some extent, but because it's affecting the functioning of your entire family, I'd recommend trying to identify the problem through research and/or professional help. The frustrations of dealing with these issues fester and can hurt relationships. I've dealt with this with more than one child, and I know from experience if you don't face it and find positive solutions, very negative dynamics develop that influence the child's self-esteem and family relationships. Better investigated earlier rather than later. Being able to do something in unusual circumstances (an event at 12) does not mean he can do it every day. I can cope with noise if I have to but if I had to do it every day I would self destruct. This is so true. Because a child can pull it together on certain occasions, people suspect it's a discipline or character issue. But no, these inconsistencies are more typical than not when there is in fact a genuine problem. ETA: You are not failing and it's not healthy for you to feel that way, especially when you have so many homeschooling years ahead of you. Your challenging child will see it and feel responsible and feel like a failure himself. Nothing good will come from that. Trust me. Your older child will continue to feel ignored and become more resentful. Your younger children will also pick up the negativity. Do some research for a start, so you can see it's not your fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 We deal with some of those same issues. It can be exhausting. What has helped me was this: Bible, History, Literature all combined first thing. Like a Morning basket approach. Family lessons first. Then, I start my independent kids, see if they need help with their assignments and move on to my time sucker. While he's waiting on me to be ready to tackle math he can be doing his chores, typing, snack or reading. I then set his timer for an hour, bave him start his Math. When the hour is up, no matter where he is in his lesson, he puts it away and has lunch or snack. He then gets pool time, or something active. We then tackle the next dreaded subject Grammar. Timer set to 30 minutes after I go over the lesson on the whiteboard. He works mostly independently. I just try to be present in same room or he disappears or starts distractions for others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 All privileges are removed until he demonstrates on task work ethic for a preset length of time ( maybe one week?) . He has to earn back privileges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof4babes Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Thank you. I brought him home because he was feeling stupid at school, and always getting in trouble for getting distracted/distracting others. At the beginning of grade 2 he was still really struggling with reading. His teacher thought he was struggling in math as well, but he tested into grade level as far as understanding concepts, and applying them, but with a few difficulties that were resolved quickly at home. He had speach delays, and still couldn't pronounce th sounds. This meant he was skipping over 40-49 because they sounded the same to him as 30-39. I suspect dyslexia. I'm not quite sure how to better accommodate him while making sure he gets a good education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyfulmomSDG Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Just wanted to mention that this seems pretty normal for the age regardless of gender. Both my son, and daughter have been exactly the same in the 8-10 yr. old range as far as losing focus & allowing anything (and everything) to distract them. My now 11 yo boy is totally the opposite this year. It's like a total transformation now that he understands how much better it is for him to just get his work done so he can move on to free time. My 9 yo daughter is still in this phase, but she does really well with a timer & my attention. I stagger all of my elementary one-on-one time if necessary and read history to everyone at lunch. It's what's working for now - but I have to be fluid. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momacacia Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I would plan how much time *you* are willing to give to a topic. Once he's burned up that time, the rest of it is on him. Eg, "Mommy has 20 minutes to give to your math each day. After that, you are responsible to complete your work on your own." At our house, the consequence would be that incomplete work gets done with Daddy in the evening giving up bedtime reading with him. This works especially well for 6yo. I also threaten additional chores for whining and delaying. I just don't have time for this...they do. Lol. Also, 10yo likes to bring up every unrelated thing in the world and ask a bajillion unrelated questions. I just say, "off topic" or "asked and answered." If we're doing math, it needs to related to math, if a book discussion time, it better be about that book. I love a rabbit trail even more than she does, so it helps us both. Focus! :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Thank you. I brought him home because he was feeling stupid at school, and always getting in trouble for getting distracted/distracting others. At the beginning of grade 2 he was still really struggling with reading. His teacher thought he was struggling in math as well, but he tested into grade level as far as understanding concepts, and applying them, but with a few difficulties that were resolved quickly at home. He had speach delays, and still couldn't pronounce th sounds. This meant he was skipping over 40-49 because they sounded the same to him as 30-39. I suspect dyslexia. I'm not quite sure how to better accommodate him while making sure he gets a good education. You won't know better how to accommodate him without getting a better handle on what the problem is. It could be a simple attention thing, but there's a little bit of a history there and the speech problem. My oldest dd has auditory processing disorder. She was made to feel stupid for not getting things and was distracted since it took so much effort for her to listen. I was able to get her evaluated by an audiologist and have it covered by insurance. I would make some effort to investigate if that could be an issue. I also have to kids who needed vision therapy for common problems. When the visual system isn't working, work takes a lot of effort and kids have a harder time keeping focused. You can find a developmental optometrist on the covd.org website. The therapy is expensive and isn't usually covered by insurance, but our evals were only about $200. Scottish Rite has free dyslexia screeings I've heard, but I don't know anything about that. My friend was able to get a recommendation for testing by a disabilities specialist from HSLDA. It was relatively affordable. Not the most thorough, but it served her needs and gave her incredible peace of mind and reassurance that hsing was the best option. These might be ways to start looking into getting some answers. Neither of you are failures. Don't feel like one yourself and don't make him feel like one. All of us have our gifts as well as our weaknesses. Create opportunities for you to discover his gifts by giving him time to explore his interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I suspect dyslexia. I'm not quite sure how to better accommodate him while making sure he gets a good education. Ok, this needs sorted out. Have you done the Barton student screening yet? http://www.bartonreading.com/students_long.html If he has dyslexia, this is going to have to be a priority area and will require a lot of one one one work if you try to tackle it yourself. A dyslexia trained tutor, if in the budget, might be a way to free up your time while he gets one on one help in that area. Dyslexia is going to affect all his schooling in various ways. It sounds like he's better off at home. He is going to take time. Many hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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