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NAACP - Dolezals - Fraud AA allegations


Murphy101
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Just a bit of clarification to see if I'm piecing this together correctly.  She did her undergrad at Belhaven and, then, her Masters of Fine Arts at Howard, not her undergrad at Howard, right? 

 

If she went to Belhaven, it would fit with her parents being Christians, and maybe even with her being homeschooled, as the school is Christian, has been very supportive to homeschoolers, and it has a very, very fine art department.  It is the only Christian college in the nation that is nationally accredited in visual arts, theater, dance, and music, and one of only a few dozen colleges total that have all four arts accreditations. 

 

Several of us have kids who have looked at or gone to Belhaven.  Their common course program that all students take is very classically oriented.

 

 

 

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We can speculate, but given how much she has apparently made up I don't think we can just accept her accounts of abuse at face value. Boy who cried wolf and all that...

Her parents *lost custody* of two kids for abuse. I think it is safe to assume that the courts had reason to take that action. She more likely than not was abused in some way or the other.

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Her parents *lost custody* of two kids for abuse. I think it is safe to assume that the courts had reason to take that action. She more likely than not was abused in some way or the other.

??? Where did you learn this?

 

From what I have read, Izaiah choose to move in with Rachel when he was about 16; he sought emancipation through the court system but that case was eventually dropped; Rachel was given guardianship with her parents' consent. This does not sound to me like the courts intervening to remove a child, but maybe acting to arbitrate a family dispute between parents and teenage child.

 

I am going off of limited information in the articles I have read though, perhaps you have more complete information from something I haven't seen?

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Wow. So Christian adoptive parents are now stereotyped as abusers? Let me run up and let my 15 yo adopted daughter that everyone assumes I am abusing her. She's no Einstein, but she is smart enough to know that's absurd. What an amazing leap this thread has made based on no evidence at all.

These particular parents have lost custody. Doesn't matter their religion, race, politics or taste in operas. They are most probably abusive in some way or the other. It generally takes a lot to lose custody.

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??? Where did you learn this?

 

From what I have read, Izaiah choose to move in with Rachel when he was about 16; he sought emancipation through the court system but that case was eventually dropped; Rachel was given guardianship with her parents' consent. This does not sound to me like the courts intervening to remove a child, but maybe acting to arbitrate a family dispute between parents and teenage child.

 

I am going off of limited information in the articles I have read though, perhaps to have more complete information from something I haven't seen?

The court isn't generally going to give guardianship to someone else without some reason or merit to the claim. I've also read that It was eventually two young people, not 1.

 

Why did the young man seek emancipation? He didn't do that because he was living with the parents of the year. In short, it's not just Rachel who had made abuse allegations against these parents. I don't see any reason to assume that the parents were being falsely accused by several children.

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Her parents *lost custody* of two kids for abuse. I think it is safe to assume that the courts had reason to take that action. She more likely than not was abused in some way or the other.

I'm very confused by this whole "custody" thing. She did not get custody of ONE of the brothers until he was 21 years old and he chose to go live with her when he was 16. I'm not sure at all how or why custody of an adult of sound mind is necessary. And there's other references to him going to college, so I am confused about why someone would need to get custody of a 21 year old adult. None of the other brothers did that and they refute these claims. One of the other brothers seems to have washed his hands of all of them on both sides. This does not point to abuse at all to me.

 

It sounds a lot more like a 16 year old who wasn't getting his way at home went to live with the "cool" relative who would let them do whatever. And it happens the "cool" realative has been wrecking havoc and discord wherever she goes, be it family or otherwise, for a very long time.

 

There were no abuse allegations brought before the courts.

 

This whole thing stinks of crazy gone crazy while being crazy. None of anything she claims makes one iota of sense to me.

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The court isn't generally going to give guardianship to someone else without some reason or merit to the claim. I've also read that It was eventually two young people, not 1.

 

Why did the young man seek emancipation? He didn't do that because he was living with the parents of the year. In short, it's not just Rachel who had made abuse allegations against these parents. I don't see any reason to assume that the parents were being falsely accused by several children.

So many possibilities.

 

Abuse is one of them, but possible reasons could range from fairly ordinary teen restlessness and dissatisfaction to RAD.

 

Do we know whether the guardianship was court ordered or voluntary? I have known several teenagers who went to live with family or friends for a time and those adults were given guardianship so they could act as parents for things like school registration and medical needs.

 

Here's an article about the difference between guardianship and custody

http://www.livestrong.com/article/159371-what-is-the-difference-between-child-custody-guardianship/#page=1

 

I don't have enough information to really parse this situation, but the article I read said that Izaiah's parents retained full parental rights.

 

I just don't think we can assume abuse without more information.

 

Can you link me to the article that talks about more than one minor child being involved?

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I'm curious to know how we think our reactions would change if this were:

 

A black person presenting herself as white?

 

A white person presenting as Native American?

 

A Hispanic person presenting as Asian?

 

An American representing themselves as French?

Don't care

Don't care

Don't care

Don't care

 

And you do not have to be black to go to Howard or work at NAACP.

 

I am just not sympathetic at all to the parents here. Her deception could very very likely from her background be coming from a sincere place (identifying as AA), instead of being cynical. I can't think of any pressing need to "out" her.

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A friend of mine posted a link to something Tim Wise wrote on FB:

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152869410530969&id=140254320968&fref=nf&pnref=story

 

 

 

Hah, now for an extra special kicker...turns out I've just been informed by a friend and ally at Eastern Washington U. (who was involved in bringing me to campus to speak there last semester), that it was Rachel Dolezal who had objected to me coming, because I, as a white man, can't speak to race issues involving black people. First, they got a dictionary at EWU where she can look up "irony?" And second, her objection is perfectly indicative of her problem. She thinks I seek to speak from authority on blackness. No, that's not me, that's YOU Rachel. I only seek to speak about whiteness. Her confusion on that point is the source of pretty much all this bullshit: not knowing the difference between confronting whiteness and seeking to speak for blackness.
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These particular parents have lost custody. Doesn't matter their religion, race, politics or taste in operas. They are most probably abusive in some way or the other. It generally takes a lot to lose custody.

 

Well, first of all, I'm not sure we are actually certain that the parents lost custody of anything.  I agree, however, that their religion, race, politics and operatic preferences are irrelevant, and if you'd looked at the post to which I was responding, you would see that I was responding to another poster's assertion that the parents fit a stereotype we've seen of conservative Christian parents adopting--and then abusing--multiple special needs children.  The only element of any of that in evidence is that they adopted multiple children.  I don't think we even know that the parents are Christians.  So yes, I agree 100% that their politics, etc., are irrelevant, and that the fact that they are (or may be) conservative Christians is also irrelevant.

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This, and many other things, demonstrate that being of mixed heritage is a complex thing. Even choosing to identify as black when you're black and other things, or choosing to identify as Asian if you're a Korean adoptee, or choosing to identify as Hispanic when your birth father is Hispanic but you grow up in a family with a white step father and other all-white people is controversial, from what I've read on the web. Oh, and I saw this documentary about being African American where there was a discussion about whether a person of Egyptian heritage should identify as African American. This is generally a very tough topic.

 

 

Interestingly, just about an hour ago dd applied online for a job at Starbucks.  First it asked if she was Hispanic, and she clicked "no".  Then a whole list of new 'race' choices came up, along with definitions.  Under "White", it said "of European, Middle Eastern, or North African extraction".  Well, then, I guess Arabs are now officially included under the "White" umbrella, at least according to Starbucks (and remember there were many years where the Italians and ever the whiter-than-white Irish were not considered "White" in America - when the term was pretty much restricted to Northern European AND Protestant extraction)... 

 

I don't remember if the same survey asked if someone was "Black" or "African-American"...

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I have to wonder, though, what made her parents "out" her.

Even if I completely disagreed with something my child was doing, I don't know that I'd take it to the media (and effectively end or put a damper on her career and lifestyle).

I'm not sure if her parents did try to "out" her or if they were just being factually honest when asked. And even if they did "out" her, I guess that I don't really have much sympathy for her being outed. She was lying, and in way way too deep on this charade. Posing as a black women isn't "a lifestyle choice" and she could have had a career working on issues of racial justice and Af American studies as a white person, so I'm not sure they are at fault for "dampening her career."  And it seems like they didn't just out her -- she had being living this life for years, and they said nothing until the media flap about the hate mail. Which is more than I can say for myself -- if 30 years from now my daughter posted a picture of some random woman that she claimed to be her momma - umm...yeah -- I might say something about it - I wouldn't wait for reporters to come to me, I wouldn't go to someone privately...  So I'm inclined to believe that as the lies got bigger and deeper (culminating in what seems to be faked hate mail), someone approached them, they just said, "Umm, yeah. That's our daughter." 

 

Because, dangit, their daughter was WHITE and how dare she insult them by not being WHITE. (basically, they got their panties in a twist) I don't agree with her lying, but their discrediting her sounds very personal.

Darn skippy it's personal. And it doesn't have to be about race necessarily, but - umm, hecka yeah, if my sons or daughter posted some FB page naming some other random woman as their mama, yep, I might take that a little personally and "feel some kind of way about it."  My children are young, but I guess I cannot not imagine being so estranged from them as adults that I wouldn't claim them and they wouldn't claim me, even if they didn't like me or if they didn't feel understood by me.  No matter how distant we might have grown, yeah, I still expect you to be forthright and honest about the fact of my being your parent. I'm just not going to be written out of your life like that. Do what you want as a grown woman, but yeah, I reserve the right to point you out and say, "Yes, that's my child over there" until my dying breath.

 

On the occasion when I went through the silly teenage phase of being embarrassed by my parents, my mom would say, "Look, no one gets into this world without having a momma. It might as well be me, so you'd better get over it." Rachel wants so desperately to be black, well being a black woman ;-), dissing your own momma doesn't win you many cool points. I'm being a bit tongue in cheek here, but really, one this one, I feel confident in putting my "black voice of authority" up against Rachel's -- having been blacker longer and all that ;-).  

 

On a truly lighter note, I do think the Lifetime channel may have found its next made-for-TV movie. 

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Well, the way they put it seemed open to interpretation. I think she probably did take a scholarship intended for a black student, but I'm genuinely not positive. I don't think WaPo could be sued for libel for something so vague. I can't imagine that would go anywhere assuming the basic facts - she went to Howard on a full scholarship - are correct.

 

Just to toss out something else to think about...one of my girls took a scholarship intended for a black female. It was a good one too! She checked the box that she was caucasion. The .....(Insert a woman's name) Scholarship was awarded to her. (She did not apply specifically for it. You just fill out a form online and submit to be considered for a whole bunch of scholarships available at the university.)She was quite happy to receive it. After a while, she started wondering why she kept getting email for various black groups on campus. She finally figured out that one of the scholarships she had been awarded was designated as for a black female. This year, she did not receive this same award. She/We feel no obligation to pay back this money. It was awarded with information that was accurately given. Nothing about the name indicates it is for a minority. You have to actually look it up to find out that this is the intended use.

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Caitlyn Jenner discussing the experience of being transgendered is not disingenuous. Bruce Jenner talking about the woman's experience from a place of authority would have been.

 

Identity experience is more complex than how one chooses to define oneself. It has to do with one's experience of the world based on how others perceive and relate to you.

 

When I finish grad school, I would love to work for the NAACP, but I am very clear that, while I am interested in hearing people's experiences of the world, I will be operating from a point of aggregate, epidemiological correlation. The experiences of living as a minority are simply not mine to tell. It's not a difficult concept to understand, either.

 

Lolly, I don't think you have any obligation to pay back the scholarship. Your daughter didn't defraud the school to apply for it. They simply made a clerical error that both they and she appear to have been completely unaware of until after the fact. It would be completely different if she was invited to receive an award as an outstanding <feature that she does not have> student. Kwim?

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The court isn't generally going to give guardianship to someone else without some reason or merit to the claim. I've also read that It was eventually two young people, not 1.

 

Why did the young man seek emancipation? He didn't do that because he was living with the parents of the year. In short, it's not just Rachel who had made abuse allegations against these parents. I don't see any reason to assume that the parents were being falsely accused by several children.

 

So if a minor and his/her parents have "irreconcilable differences", so to speak, over house rules, the family's way of life, etc. a court wouldn't approve a change in guardianship?  It MUST be an abusive situation?  In the CNN article linked above, it says that the emancipation case was dropped.  Sooo, still waiting on the link to a source clarifying beyond a reasonable doubt that there was reported abuse.  Like a record of it somewhere.  Does that exist?

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I'm curious to know how we think our reactions would change if this were:

 

A black person presenting herself as white?

 

A white person presenting as Native American?

 

A Hispanic person presenting as Asian?

 

An American representing themselves as French?

I bet lots of academically outstanding Asian students would want to present themselves as non-Asian to not be discriminated for college admission if it were morally, ethically OK!!!

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Is anyone else noticing how often people are commenting on her LOOKS, prettier as a black woman, etc.?  Just read several of those types of comments on my local news station's FB page about this story.  Bizarre to me.  I guess they don't have anything more of substance to say about it.  LOL

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She couldn't get sympathy for being persecuted for her whiteness so she became black and sought sympathy for being persecuted for her blackness.

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Honest question from my group of friends- no snark please but how did she get her skin that way- fake tan or make up?

 

I've wondered the same.  I'm guessing spray tan.  And she keeps up with it (and getting her hair done) religiously.

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Did anyone hear that she told a girl she wasn't Hispanic enough? I am really thinking mental illness here.

 

Honest question from my group of friends- no snark please but how did she get her skin that way- fake tan or make up?

She also told a white civil rights worker he couldn't talk about being black - because he's white.

Major disconnect from reality.

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Did anyone hear that she told a girl she wasn't Hispanic enough? I am really thinking mental illness here.

 

Honest question from my group of friends- no snark please but how did she get her skin that way- fake tan or make up?

 

Her face color was very even without looking caked on so I'd rule out heavy makeup. She looked orange from the photos I've seen which indicates tanning lotion or spray tan. Bronzer and tanning beds are possible as well although too much bronzer tends to make a paler face look "dirty" as opposed to tan. 

 

Spray tan will start to flake off in patches if you use it long enough as the skin sloughs off cells at different rates. She must have exfoliated constantly to keep the color even.

 

Filed under random stuff I know...

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For a while, I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she was suffering from mental illness, but now I'm just thinking she is a world class weasel who lied about everything from her ethnicity to her artwork to the calls she made to the police.

 

At this point, there isn't much they could reveal about her that would surprise or shock me.

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You guys... I feel like I originally had some sympathy for her and I was like... gee, she clearly lied and that's wrong, but this is interesting because it's sort of about what is race and how much of race is culture and so forth.

 

But the more that emerges, the crazier it all gets. Like, did you guys see this where she talked about how her husband wanted her to act white and how oppressive that was? Or how she sat at the black kids table in college because that was more like her family? Oh my gosh... she's just so deluded.

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Yeah, I'm not feeling any great need to give the benefit of the doubt on this one, unless it is to put the fraud down to 'a troubled personality'.

Agreed. I really try to give the benefit of the doubt on these things, but this is getting ridiculous.

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This.  She clearly is very passionate about African American rights.  Perhaps she felt she either wouldn't be taken seriously if she presented herself as white or wouldn't be allowed/welcome in the positions she's ended up in.  Perhaps she is right.

Perhaps... but that doesn't make lying an okay way to go about it.

I could be passionate about veterans and PTSD care for them... it would be wrong of me to portray myself, falsely, as a veteran suffering from PTSD in order to do so.

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OK, so she was white when she thought that would benefit her, and then she was black when she thought that would benefit her.

 

Maybe next she will move to Florida and be Minnie Mouse so she can get a job at Disney World. Or will she be Smurfette and sue Disney for discrimination when they choose not to hire her? ;)

 

I guess it never occurred to her that maybe the reason the people at Howard University didn't fall all over themselves to offer her all sorts of wonderful opportunities wasn't because she was white, but rather that they didn't hire her because she was a complete wackadoodle.

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OK, so she was white when she thought that would benefit her, and then she was black when she thought that would benefit her.

 

Maybe next she will move to Florida and be Minnie Mouse so she can get a job at Disney World. Or will she be Smurfette and sue Disney for discrimination when they choose not to hire her? ;)

 

I guess it never occurred to her that maybe the reason the people at Howard University didn't fall all over themselves to offer her all sorts of wonderful opportunities wasn't because she was white, but rather that they didn't hire her because she was a complete wackadoodle.

 

Now I am thinking she is just a moocher.  

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I'm still stuck on the etiology of all this. When her parents adopted the black children, did she have some kind of episode? Was she extremely jealous and tried to be like them to fit in and get attention and that just became her life? Did those children say something to her that made her angry or upset and it started a crazy spiral?

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I'm still stuck on the etiology of all this. When her parents adopted the black children, did she have some kind of episode? Was she extremely jealous and tried to be like them to fit in and get attention and that just became her life? Did those children say something to her that made her angry or upset and it started a crazy spiral?

Her brother, Ezra, is quoted in one of the articles as saying that he felt like she started to switch while she was at Howard, because she didn't feel welcome there as a white person.  

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I'm still stuck on the etiology of all this. When her parents adopted the black children, did she have some kind of episode? Was she extremely jealous and tried to be like them to fit in and get attention and that just became her life? Did those children say something to her that made her angry or upset and it started a crazy spiral?

 

From my own experience (being in the international adoption community), many families send all the kids (adopted and not) to "culture camp" focusing on the adopted kids' culture of origin, and change the family's lifestyle to incorporate as much of the adoptees' culture as they can.  For example, the favored special meals are all ethnic, home decor, focus on sports and arts that are popular in the birth country(ies), etc.  I could see some bio siblings getting really into that (while some others vehemently reject it and most fall somewhere in between).

 

I could see such a person preferring to sit at the "black table" because she feels more at home there.  Actually (call me weird if you want) I've found that I feel more "at home" at a social table with Indian people than with white people (not including my family).  They tend to have more appreciation / acceptance for personality traits I possess.  It's not about race but rather culture.  So that I can understand.

 

But come on, "black/AA" is not and has never been an option for people without biological roots of some sort.  It just keeps going back to "zero credibility."

 

I'm glad she resigned so she can figure this out without dragging the organization down.

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Her brother, Ezra, is quoted in one of the articles as saying that he felt like she started to switch while she was at Howard, because she didn't feel welcome there as a white person.  

 

But why did she go to Howard?  Perhaps she wanted the exposure to prepare her for a life devoted to civil rights.  But given the rest of the history, all kinds of other possibilities spring to mind....

 

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Her brother, Ezra, is quoted in one of the articles as saying that he felt like she started to switch while she was at Howard, because she didn't feel welcome there as a white person.  

 

I know a black guy from Africa who went to Howard.  He didn't feel welcome there because, as he said, he wasn't the right kind of black person.

 

I wonder if the place has a reputation for not being accepting of people who aren't the "right" kind of Howard student.  

 

Or maybe these are just two cases.

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This is truly bizarre. Her biological brother is going to trial for allegedly molesting an African American child in the family home. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/16/rachel-dolezals-brother-author-joshua-dolezal-faces-trial-for-alleged-sexual-abuse-of-a-black-child/ It contains his writing about their family life.

This article has more about the case: http://www.people.com/article/rachel-dolezal-naacp-criminal-case-colorado

 

The mom says the child had RAD and was never left alone with the brother and that Rachel initiated the claims on her behalf. The language of the allegations certainly sounds like it came from her.

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