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"Mom, it's good you've been clear about where I can go to college."


bettyandbob
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Said by my dd17 a junior in public high school. She has a friend who is graduating. Friend was accepted to UC Berkley, which on the other coast from us. Friend recently set up a GoFundMe account because there's no way her family can come up with the costs (tuition, travel, living, fees).

 

That's sad.

 

I told her apply to schools where

1. You know you can pay and/or

2. You know you have a reasonable chance at scholarship money

Don't make any decisions until you evaluate acceptances AND financial packages. Treat a financial package that isn't enough like a rejection, although you could try to negotiate.

 

We've been having the discussion since she was a freshman.

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You know, it's interesting, Dave Ramsey had a whole thing about community funding yesterday.  I've mostly only seen Go Fund Me accounts for health problems and I'm a fan for that purpose.  But, I'm curious, did they get any contributions?  Because I'd be thinking, "Seriously, no one donated so I could do X."  And I didn't ask for donations for DD.  She chose a state school close because, well, that was mostly the option.

 

I have to say I don't know what they are thinking.  :(

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It's well known that none of the UCs provide good aid for OOS students.  Why there?  There are tons of equally as good schools that a student with stats to get into Berkeley from OOS can go to for less $$.

 

There's no way I'd contribute to a fund like that.

 

Perhaps they'll take out bank loans, then default on them because, you know, they deserve it.   :glare:

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I guess I don't understand telling dc you'll pay or significantly help pay for college and telling them to apply willy nilly anywhere without having done any financial research. Unless one is hugely wealthy why would you do that. We made it clear we think education is very important, but there is a financial component to be considered and it should be a logical decision making process.

 

dd's friend is a suburban kid in a high COL area, with educated parents who work professional jobs. I really don't understand being completely surprised at the cost of higher education for a family in that category. You'd really have to be ignoring the news, ignoring discussions between parents at school events, ignoring numerous notices of events the public school puts on about preparing for college that are directed at parents.

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Said by my dd17 a junior in public high school. She has a friend who is graduating. Friend was accepted to UC Berkley, which on the other coast from us. Friend recently set up a GoFundMe account because there's no way her family can come up with the costs (tuition, travel, living, fees).

 

That's sad.

 

I told her apply to schools where

1. You know you can pay and/or

2. You know you have a reasonable chance at scholarship money

Don't make any decisions until you evaluate acceptances AND financial packages. Treat a financial package that isn't enough like a rejection, although you could try to negotiate.

 

We've been having the discussion since she was a freshman.

 

Well done!

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I guess I don't understand telling dc you'll pay or significantly help pay for college and telling them to apply willy nilly anywhere without having done any financial research. Unless one is hugely wealthy why would you do that. 

 

Sometimes what the parent means and what the child hears are different.  That was certainly the case with Husband: his parents said, as he remembers it, 'You can go anywhere you like.'  What that turned out to mean was, 'You can go anywhere you like in State.'  So he had all kinds of dreams, but didn't know that in order to fulfil them he would have to pursue scholarships.  

 

Parents don't always know where their children are applying until later.  We did with Calvin, but that's not always the case.

 

Husband is happy with where he ended up, but we were very, very clear with Calvin about what we could afford: essentially any UK/EU university.  If he wanted to go to the US, he needed to find a lot of his own funding.

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dd's friend is a suburban kid in a high COL area, with educated parents who work professional jobs. I really don't understand being completely surprised at the cost of higher education for a family in that category. You'd really have to be ignoring the news, ignoring discussions between parents at school events, ignoring numerous notices of events the public school puts on about preparing for college that are directed at parents.

 

Some feel incredible pressure to keep up with the Jones' and feel they can't let their kids down.  It's a totally different world than those who look at things with a finances first (or near the top) mentality.  There can be similar comparisons to houses, cars, wardrobes, country club/gym memberships, or similar.

 

What surprises me about this, though, is the Go Fund Me deal - unless that's mainstream enough that it's not looked down upon.

 

The Millionaire Next Door is a book I only skimmed, but it seemed to do a good job explaining the differences.  We live next to a couple of millionaires, but one would NEVER guess by looking at them or what they drive, etc.  I like where we live.  ;)

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Parents don't always know where their children are applying until later.  We did with Calvin, but that's not always the case.

 

It's tough for most students in the states to pull off 'surprise' applications, because there is a fee for each one that needs to be paid by check or credit card.  

 

It's not impossible, but very unlikely that a student is applying to various colleges without parental knowledge. 

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It's tough for most students in the states to pull off 'surprise' applications, because there is a fee for each one that needs to be paid by check or credit card.  

 

It's not impossible, but very unlikely that a student is applying to various colleges without parental knowledge. 

 

That's interesting.  I was basing my comment on an American mother I know who learned late on that her child had applied to a UK university.  I didn't know about the US application fee system.

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That's interesting.  I was basing my comment on an American mother I know who learned late on that her child had applied to a UK university.  I didn't know about the US application fee system.

 

Yeah, I've told my kids don't apply anywhere, where the application fee is simply a donation. My dc are paying application fees with my credit card so I am aware of where they apply.

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A lot of families just don't understand how financial aid actually works. Colleges are not forthcoming with consumer education, and high school counselors are often over-subscribed and under-trained as well. We are a self-selected group of manic self-educators on this topic, so of course we know Berkeley was a dumb idea for an out-of-state student. We're not the majority of families.

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But you really, really don't know how much anything will cost until you negotiate it.  That's the hard part of all this.

 

Yes.

 

The approach we took with oldest DS and will take with youngest is to tell them to apply wherever they think they'd like to go w/o considering finances.  We tell them we'll look at that when the financial packages come in.  But they're both reasonable, mature boys who are quite knowledgeable about the cost of higher education.  Plus oldest DS didn't have one dream school or even one school that he went into the application process highly preferring, and I suspect it will be the same with youngest.  That makes a big difference -- it's not like a kid having her heart set on a potentially very expensive dream school and then having harsh reality slap her in the face.

 

I don't understand the GoFundMe culture.  I just don't.

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With the very low acceptance rate at UCB, the parents might be thinking that there is no harm trying not expecting their child would get accepted. My parents are middle class and I have uncles who told me when I was 17 that they would help pay my college fees as a gift if I want to aim for somewhere expensive like Oxford or Cambridge. My uncles would have really gift me a good sum of money if I had applied and managed to get accepted.

 

It is common for UCB undergrads to tutor for income to help with living expenses. It is a high COL area so tutoring rates are also higher.

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A lot of families just don't understand how financial aid actually works. Colleges are not forthcoming with consumer education, and high school counselors are often over-subscribed and under-trained as well. We are a self-selected group of manic self-educators on this topic, so of course we know Berkeley was a dumb idea for an out-of-state student. We're not the majority of families.

 

Am I just abnormal. I knew college was going to be a difficult thing to finance before I started to homeschool my oldest at age 6. I knew when he was born (he's 20). By then tuition rates at the public ivy I attended were climbing and that was for in state tuition. Back then I was surprised when moms and dads I met through play group would say they weren't planning on saving anything for college. These were people who as a group had college degrees and grown up middle class or upper middle class. As time went on stuff about tuition increases has been loudly in the news. 10 years ago there started to be stories about huge student loan debt that recent college graduates would be paying off for 30+ years (not the 10 years that was common in my day). I honestly, don't know how these parents missed the memo.

 

The career counselor at my dd's public high school sets up a series of seminars throughout the school years in evenings for parents to learn about applications, financial aid and budgeting. So, if you haven't been hearing the news on the way to work the school is bringing resources right to you. (I realize not all schools do this, but dd's friend goes to this school the information was always readily available).

 

I do think there's a lot of entitlement. I think many parents are constantly trying to keep up with the Jones', especially where I live (every child gifted and more deserving than all others mentality). I think that's where gofundme comes in -- "I deserve this. I should just have it."

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I've observed this quite a bit among friends who felt that the college decision was primarily about "fit" and getting the "college experience."

 

Maybe because I put myself through school, I always knew that finances were part of it as well.  

 

I enjoyed college, but the academics is what propelled me into my career.

 

There's a lot to college that doesn't last, and loans can haunt you for years.

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Students who have financial hardship get fee waivers. They can and do shoot for the moon without parents knowing the details.

 

48% of public schooled students in 2010-2011 were on free or reduced lunch.

 

IMO they should shoot for the moon assuming that they have any chance of being accepted.  For many of the students who qualify for fee waivers, the top privates (and UVa and UNC-CH) will likely be the least expensive to attend, should they be fortunate enough to be accepted.   Unfortunately many of those who receive fee waivers don't have the stats needed to even consider the most generous privates, so their options are much more limited.   Some states have better options than others.

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dd's friend is a suburban kid in a high COL area, with educated parents who work professional jobs.

Looking at UCB's website, the average cost of attendence estimated by UCB is $60k for out of state

http://admissions.berkeley.edu/costofattendance

 

If your daughter's friend's parents are both working and it is a high COL area, $60k is probably much less than the median income for a household. If the friend is an only or a firstborn, I could see parents thinking that $60k isn't that scary.

 

ETA:

When I ran the net price calculator for Stanford and Harvard just for fun, the estimate that came back was shockingly low.

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Am I just abnormal. I knew college was going to be a difficult thing to finance before I started to homeschool my oldest at age 6. I knew when he was born (he's 20). By then tuition rates at the public ivy I attended were climbing and that was for in state tuition.

 

Yes.  Rising college costs aren't exactly a new thing.

 

We started saving for our kids' college before I was even pregnant with #1 (who is 19.5 now).  We knew we'd need a good head start. ;)

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I've observed this quite a bit among friends who felt that the college decision was primarily about "fit" and getting the "college experience."

 

We consider the decision to be primarily about fit and the college experience, but we expect them to find a fit and a wonderful experience within our budget. There are lots of state schools, some very reasonably priced private schools and some pricier schools that give good aid that all made the options list. My kids never considered the budget to be prohibitive, but they didn't shoot for the moon either. I couldn't afford the rocket.

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Our kids have always known that we will pay for any concurrent enrollment costs while they are in high school.  However, we could not offer any guaranteed assistance after that.  I promised to help with finding and applying for scholarships and financial aid.  There is a great junior college in our town and all of our kids can live at home while attending if they want.  My son, who just graduated from public high school last month, really wanted to go to an out of state engineering school and we visited it.  He fell in love with the campus but we felt that he needed to visit several other campuses for comparison purposes and/or to reaffirm his school choice.  He visited several four year state universities and he really liked the campus and offerings at one of them but the school did not offer his engineering specialty so he felt like his best choice was still his first choice.  He came to us shortly after the start of his senior year and told us that he really felt that he should apply to our local junior college (where he attended concurrent enrollment classes) because he wanted to limit his expenses for the first two years of college.  His goal was to finish his first two years of college with no debt and work on scholarships to help with the expense of the 2-3 years at engineering school.  He spoke with advisers from both the junior college and the engineering school to make sure that the classes he took would transfer and that he could receive an associates degree and start at the engineering school as a junior.  He and I worked hard to find scholarships and financial aid and he composed many essays for scholarships.  He ended up with enough in scholarships and financial aid that he now has his first two years paid for and money to cover books.  He received a good amount of money for graduation that he is putting towards his third year of schooling.  To top it off, the junior college hired him to be an ambassador and he will be making $11 an hour working at the college.  His current goal is to have his third year paid for before he starts it.  He is going to continue to look for scholarships and apply for any and all that he can.  We are very proud of him for the sound financial decisions he is making.  He told us that, as much as he wanted freedom and to be on his own, he did not feel like it was worth it since it would mean giving up freedom in the future because he would be tied down to loans.  He did apply to multiple schools (Colorado School of Mines, Colorado State University, and more) and was accepted but never paid any application fees.  He wanted schools to recruit him so he would wait to be contacted by schools and all but one recruitment letter waived the application fee.  He did not apply to the school that did not offer to wave the fee. 

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Our kids have always known that we will pay for any concurrent enrollment costs while they are in high school.  However, we could not offer any guaranteed assistance after that.  I promised to help with finding and applying for scholarships and financial aid.  There is a great junior college in our town and all of our kids can live at home while attending if they want.  

Is this "Junior College"  public or private?  Typically two year public schools are Community Colleges.

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It is public but is called a junior college.  It also offers advanced degree options where you can take courses online or on campus to achieve a bachelor's degree issued by a four year university here in Colorado.  There are also certificate programs for wind turbine maintenance, equine management, agriculture, cosmetology, nursing, and early childhood development in addition to the associates programs offered.  From what I understand, it is on the top tier of community colleges because of the degree transfer options and that is what makes it a junior college.  There are also multiple sports teams and other things that make it a junior college while still being public.  There is talk of turning it into a four year college because of the amount of programs offered and the high level of interest shown to attend there. 

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From what I understand, it is on the top tier of community colleges because of the degree transfer options and that is what makes it a junior college.  There are also multiple sports teams and other things that make it a junior college while still being public.   

 

There is no difference between a Junior College and a Community College.  Only the words have changed over the year.

 

http://www.americancommunitycolleges.com/isg_articles/junior-communitycollege-whatsdifferent.php

 

There are better and/or larger community colleges than others - just like four year schools and it's not unheard of for some to expand enough to become 4 year schools.

 

They are terrific options for some students.

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There is no difference between a Junior College and a Community College.  Only the words have changed over the year.

 

http://www.americancommunitycolleges.com/isg_articles/junior-communitycollege-whatsdifferent.php

 

There are better and/or larger community colleges than others - just like four year schools and it's not unheard of for some to expand enough to become 4 year schools.

 

They are terrific options for some students.

 

Yes, same thing.  In my state most of them have always been called "community colleges," and there is a state-wide system with transfer agreements and common course numbering, course expectations, etc. It makes going from a 2-year to a 4-year seamless as long as you monitor the transfer agreements and make sure that you have the right courses and grades.  If your campus doesn't have all of the courses you need, you can take the courses you need online or from a neighboring community college.

 

My recent graduate could have gone either way, but chose to go to the local community college in the honors program with a nice merit scholarship.

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That's interesting.  I was basing my comment on an American mother I know who learned late on that her child had applied to a UK university.  I didn't know about the US application fee system.

 

Some state schools have no application fee. I've also seen some schools that were free if you applied online.

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My second child is now to the point of people asking her constantly where she wants to go, and it's hard for her to answer. We have the same approach with her as we did with oldest, apply and wait to see where you are accepted and what is offered before you start making any plans. We've made it clear that anything too expensive will not be an option.

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  • 2 weeks later...

We had dd apply to colleges that met her criteria for helping with her dyslexia and were affordable.  That meant she applied to four private colleges.  SHe was accepted at three and waitlisted at the fourth.  All three would cost us the same- very little with her transferred GI bill.  SHe chose the closest one so the least transportation costs.  She is far enough away that she won;t be coming home often (four hours away). Her sister is closer to her (3 hours).I think she will be happy at this school.  

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