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S/O California Water problems... Dead lawn, now what?


KrissiK
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That's HALF our annual precip!

Re reading my post made it sound like we got five inches in a couple storms. Sorry about that. And I found what I think were official numbers and we've had about 7 1/2 inches this year (since July 1, 2014). Last year was six inches and the year before just under six inches.

 

I wish I could find a chart a friend of mine posted on Facebook. It gave the figures for river basin capacity, and if I remember correctly, almost all in the state were at sub-10% capacity. :(

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Re reading my post made it sound like we got five inches in a couple storms. Sorry about that. And I found what I think were official numbers and we've had about 7 1/2 inches this year (since July 1, 2014). Last year was six inches and the year before just under six inches.

 

I wish I could find a chart a friend of mine posted on Facebook. It gave the figures for river basin capacity, and if I remember correctly, almost all in the state were at sub-10% capacity. :(

 

Some parts of Texas and Oklahoma did get over five inches in a couple storms.

 

They had horrible flooding but they were in a drought so it is  a mixed blessing.

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Some parts of Texas and Oklahoma did get over five inches in a couple storms.

 

They had horrible flooding but they were in a drought so it is a mixed blessing.

I couldn't imagine that much water in one storm. I mean, I've lived through my share of El Niño years, but I've only seen rain like that on the news (I think we are too coastal without any foothills nearby). They are predicting (again, but supposedly with better data) El Niño this winter. The rain is needed, but I am afraid of that much water too quickly on extremely dry ground.

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I couldn't imagine that much water in one storm. I mean, I've lived through my share of El Niño years, but I've only seen rain like that on the news (I think we are too coastal without any foothills nearby). They are predicting (again, but supposedly with better data) El Niño this winter. The rain is needed, but I am afraid of that much water too quickly on extremely dry ground.

 

Texas is currently seeing El Nino weather, yes.

 

We would get this occasionally, growing up. I even remember getting days off school for rain VERY occasionally.  They made the streets with sewer drainoffs that got piped to a ditch near the neighborhood that would hold the water until it can subside the way it can.  The streets themselves would fill up with water and were part of the whole "water capture" system to keep water out of houses.  I don't know if Houston has them, but Austin has areas that are "Reservoirs" so the water that comes down from the sky is captured and stored there.

 

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I was listening to our local talk radio station and they had a city council member on fielding questions about water regs. Someone called in about that. The city council man highly discouraged this, since they can't regulate what is in the water you are pouring on the soil and it could contain contaminates. They are talking about grey water systems, but it has to be approved by the city.

 

Back in the 70s, my Mom would set a timer so that she knew when the washer went into the rinse cycle, then she flipped a valve that my Dad had installed on the drain hose or something like that. So the first drain of the really soapy dirty water went the regular route, but the cleaner rinse water was diverted to the yard. The details are sketchy, but it was something like that.

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What about places that use lots of water like car washes? Are they allowed to continue?

 

Our local car wash recycles 99% of its water. It loses 1% to evaporation. It's considered highly preferable to go to one of these instead of washing your own car. Especially in my area, where it's not just about water conservation, but also because our storm drains empty into the SF bay.

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Living on the other side of the country, I cannot imagine what you Californians go through. But, California water shortages have been going on as long as I can remember. Why isn't there a water pipe going from California to other states with more water? Why isn't water trucked in? Living in the Midsouth, I have always had water that came from far off locations and some relatively local. Why can't California do the same? I remember Texas and California got into a little water spat a few years ago and Texas cut them off. Please educate me.

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Living on the other side of the country, I cannot imagine what you Californians go through. But, California water shortages have been going on as long as I can remember. Why isn't there a water pipe going from California to other states with more water? Why isn't water trucked in? Living in the Midsouth, I have always had water that came from far off locations and some relatively local. Why can't California do the same? I remember Texas and California got into a little water spat a few years ago and Texas cut them off. Please educate me.

 

Because other states have water rights and don't want to give them their water.

 

Here is what happened when Texas tried to take some water from Oklahoma

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/13/supreme-court-water-texas-oklahoma-compacts/2382849/

 

The Supreme Court sided with Oklahoma.

 

I would vote against California getting  water from my state.

 

Piping would be extremely costly.

 

http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-cap-drought-20150427-column.html

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Living on the other side of the country, I cannot imagine what you Californians go through. But, California water shortages have been going on as long as I can remember. Why isn't there a water pipe going from California to other states with more water? Why isn't water trucked in? Living in the Midsouth, I have always had water that came from far off locations and some relatively local. Why can't California do the same? I remember Texas and California got into a little water spat a few years ago and Texas cut them off. Please educate me.

 

The whole of the western United States is in a drought.  Where exactly would CA pipe it in from?  

 

I'm looking at this from the perspective of someone that has lived in a neighboring state for over a decade, where it is quite normal for people to have dirt yards.  Yes it is dusty, no it's not as pretty, but desert and green lawn do not even belong in the same sentence.  

 

I don't think piping/trucking water into CA should even be mentioned/considered until conservation measures in CA are on par with the desert states that surround them.

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Living on the other side of the country, I cannot imagine what you Californians go through. But, California water shortages have been going on as long as I can remember. Why isn't there a water pipe going from California to other states with more water? Why isn't water trucked in? Living in the Midsouth, I have always had water that came from far off locations and some relatively local. Why can't California do the same? I remember Texas and California got into a little water spat a few years ago and Texas cut them off. Please educate me.

 

Don't get me started.

 

Let's just say people like what California offers (wine, computers, almonds, avocados, movies, ports that bring in all that junk from China for Walmart)  but don't want to think of it as a part of the country that might need help. We are heading for a serious disaster and neither the feds nor the other states wish to assist us, even though we have long been one of the states that puts in much more to the system than it takes out. Subsidies and assistance are for other states, not us. The feds need to step in and help broker deals for water rights and other archaic things from a wetter time.

 

When people start leaving here then other states will complain they're being invaded by Californians. The few Midwesterners I've talked to about it are hoping we run out of water, come to their state and bring robust economies and jobs with us. They tell me they are tired of "brain drain" as all their young people head to the coasts to work. They also see their abundant water as a reward for living with more difficult weather.

 

So you see, we're only part of the country when we're contributing, not when we want to take.

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I would leave it, at least a little while.  It doesn't actually die, it just goes dormant.  When it rains it will come back to life.  What if you rip it all out only to get six weeks of rain like Texas and Oklahoma have just had?

 

A few months back I saw that there are some companies who will come and spray paint it green for you in the mean time.  That's one option if your DH hates brown.

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Don't get me started.

 

Let's just say people like what California offers (wine, computers, almonds, avocados, movies, ports that bring in all that junk from China for Walmart)  but don't want to think of it as a part of the country that might need help. We are heading for a serious disaster and neither the feds nor the other states wish to assist us, even though we have long been one of the states that puts in much more to the system than it takes out. Subsidies and assistance are for other states, not us. The feds need to step in and help broker deals for water rights and other archaic things from a wetter time.

 

When people start leaving here then other states will complain they're being invaded by Californians. The few Midwesterners I've talked to about it are hoping we run out of water, come to their state and bring robust economies and jobs with us. They tell me they are tired of "brain drain" as all their young people head to the coasts to work. They also see their abundant water as a reward for living with more difficult weather.

 

So you see, we're only part of the country when we're contributing, not when we want to take.

 

The first storm in the series of storms that flooded Texas and Oklahoma contained over 50 tornadoes just in that first storm alone. People were killed.

 

When Kansas has fewer nasty ice storms it actually puts their winter wheat production in peril. 

 

The northern midwestern states get craploads of snow.

 

It is the weather that provides the Midwest with water but it is actually NASTY weather that does it. It isn't a reward for the weather, it IS the weather. The Midwest is flat, their water doesn't trickle down from the mountains, it vomits from the sky.

 

California needs to get its own water laws and rights issues straightened out before any state should contribute IMO. 

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I don't think piping/trucking water into CA should even be mentioned/considered until conservation measures in CA are on par with the desert states that surround them.

 

This might seem a little nit-picky, but CA isn't a desert, and doesn't need to do things the way "desert states" do.  A few parts of it are a desert, but there FIVE major climates in California.  Much of the area suffering drought is the Mediterranean climate area.  That means that we USUALLY have more than enough rain during the winter to store and use for the dry summers.  This type of climate does not occur anywhere else in North America, so I know it is difficult for most Americans to understand why we irrigate out here as we do.  Although it is not a desert, it is necessary to have water storage facilities to keep up with the population and agriculture.  Because of environmental concerns, this has not always happened.  

 

This current drought is the worst drought in 1,000 years.  It's "exceptional."  This is a totally different thing than the problem with the Southern Californians who DO live in a desert and get their water from the Colorado River, where lawns aren't sustainable even without drought.  But that is a small portion of California (maybe not in population numbers, but in land area). 

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This might seem a little nit-picky, but CA isn't a desert, and doesn't need to do things the way "desert states" do.  A few parts of it are a desert, but there FIVE major climates in California.  Much of the area suffering drought is the Mediterranean climate area.  That means that we USUALLY have more than enough rain during the winter to store and use for the dry summers.  This type of climate does not occur anywhere else in North America, so I know it is difficult for most Americans to understand why we irrigate out here as we do.  Although it is not a desert, it is necessary to have water storage facilities to keep up with the population and agriculture.  Because of environmental concerns, this has not always happened.  

 

This current drought is the worst drought in 1,000 years.  It's "exceptional."  This is a totally different thing than the problem with the Southern Californians who DO live in a desert and get their water from the Colorado River, where lawns aren't sustainable even without drought.  But that is a small portion of California (maybe not in population numbers, but in land area). 

 

Regardless of what we technically call it, 1/2 of CA gets less than 10" of rain a year, on par with AZ, UT, NV & NM.   http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/pcpn/westus_precip.gif

 

Because of this, their conservation methods should also be on par with their neighbors, BEFORE they start asking the other states for a larger water allotment.

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I thought about it like this. How many hundreds of quarts of strawberries, thousands of watermelons and cantaloupes and other high-water veggies are trucked out of CA every day. This is so people in the East can have this produce out of season. CA is shipping water out of their state. If more people started eating a little more like real life, i.e. local as much as possible, or shipping in from FL or GA, would that help? Maybe some.

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Regardless of what we technically call it, 1/2 of CA gets less than 10" of rain a year, on par with AZ, UT, NV & NM.   http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/pcpn/westus_precip.gif

 

Because of this, their conservation methods should also be on par with their neighbors, BEFORE they start asking the other states for a larger water allotment.

 

It's much less than half the state.... but anyways, this is a major reason a lot of Northern Californians want to become a separate state.  Southern California does have a problem with water use.  Those of us in Nor Cal don't like getting lumped in with them  ;-)

 

And yes, a lot of water gets shipped out as produce -- much more than is used to irrigate lawns.  Much of what is grown in the desert areas is HAY that is shipped to CHINA.  So we basically sell So. Cal water supplies to China.  That's kinda messed up, IMHO.  But such a huge portion of the economy depends on ag -- such a huge mess!

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It's much less than half the state.... but anyways, this is a major reason a lot of Northern Californians want to become a separate state.  Southern California does have a problem with water use.  Those of us in Nor Cal don't like getting lumped in with them  ;-)

 

And yes, a lot of water gets shipped out as produce -- much more than is used to irrigate lawns.  Much of what is grown in the desert areas is HAY that is shipped to CHINA.  So we basically sell So. Cal water supplies to China.  That's kinda messed up, IMHO.  But such a huge portion of the economy depends on ag -- such a huge mess!

 

I'm sorry.  I think it would be very frustrating to be a N. CA resident.

 

 

I agree.  It's a very big mess, with no easy answers.

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Wait, so if I live in a state where the hydrologic conditions are "normal" but I'm still careful to shut off the water when I brush and what have you, they don't truck the excess water out to you guys in California? Some of these water conservation commercials seem to imply that we could share our excess with dryer parts of the world and I was never quite sure where they were going with that message. The adult version of Starving Kids in China?

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It is the weather that provides the Midwest with water but it is actually NASTY weather that does it. It isn't a reward for the weather, it IS the weather. The Midwest is flat, their water doesn't trickle down from the mountains, it vomits from the sky.

 

You'd have to take that up with the Midwesterners who literally used the "it's a reward" phrase when I spoke with them about it.  :) As in: "No way, that water is our reward for putting up with crappy weather!"

 

Only about 50% of the people living in CA were born here. Lots of people from CA have lived in places with much worse weather, including me. We know it's nasty. 

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My guess is: Low maintenance the first year. More and more as time goes on. (we've got areas of our yard that are landscaped like that and it takes a lot of work to keep weeds at bay. And everyone that gets through leaves a place for more to get through in the future!)

 

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so this took an interesting turn....  

 

we live in the high desert in california.  any year with +5 inches of rain is a good year.  (our annual average is ~8.79 inches, but that averages in data from years and years ago when there was more rain.  

 

our goal is to figure out how to live in the climate we have now.  its hotter and drier.... bad combo.  

 

things burn.  a lot.  

 

we decided not to go with astro turf, because where we live its a "when there is a fire"  not "if there is a fire", and I didn't want all those chemicals in the astro turf burning.  

 

pebbles for us are better.    

 

so we tried thinking outside the box.  we have a vegetable garden in the front yard watered by drippers.  we have native trees that require water their first few years to get established but then are fine on their own.  (except the past three years, where even the junipers that are decades old are dying).  

 

i had trouble embracing it at first, but what worked for me was to see it as an opportunity to walk the walk.  ie.  live in harmony with our surroundings.  we aren't using more water than falls on us.  that's good.  when i thought of "giving up the lawn" i was sad and mad.  when i thought about using what's given and no more, then it became an opportunity to care for creation.  world of difference for us.  

 

hth,

ann

 

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I've been admiring this landscaping, but I have no idea what it would cost or if it's as low-maintenance as it appears.

 

it depends where they are.  where we are, it would be very low maintenance, because weeds need rain, too.  when it doesn't rain, they don't grow.  so each early spring there are a few 'break outs' in our pebble lawn, which we pull, and then there will be nothing until after the next rain, which is often months.  

 

we also put down liner before putting down pebbles, so it really is remarkably low maintenance.  we do rake the pebbles occasionally to remove pine needles, etc.

 

hth,

ann

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What I can't understand is why CA doesn't do more desalination. It makes no sense to me for our drinking water here along the coast to come all the way from the Sierras. Israel does a TON of desalination (40% of their total water supply and 50% next year when more plants come online) so the technology exists.

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What I can't understand is why CA doesn't do more desalination. It makes no sense to me for our drinking water here along the coast to come all the way from the Sierras. Israel does a TON of desalination (40% of their total water supply and 50% next year when more plants come online) so the technology exists.

This is exactly what my 8 year old asked me this morning. "Mom, why can't they use the Pacific Ocean after they take out the salt?"

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This is exactly what my 8 year old asked me this morning. "Mom, why can't they use the Pacific Ocean after they take out the salt?"

 

Well, evidently it is rather expensive right now. From an article in the San Jose Mercury-News:

 

Desalinated water typically costs about $2,000 an acre foot -- roughly the amount of water a family of five uses in a year. The cost is about double that of water obtained from building a new reservoir or recycling wastewater, according to a 2013 study from the state Department of Water Resources.

 

 

Here's the full article about what is in process, though:

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25859513/nations-largest-ocean-desalination-plant-goes-up-near

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The whole of the western United States is in a drought.  Where exactly would CA pipe it in from?  

 

I'm looking at this from the perspective of someone that has lived in a neighboring state for over a decade, where it is quite normal for people to have dirt yards.  Yes it is dusty, no it's not as pretty, but desert and green lawn do not even belong in the same sentence.  

 

I don't think piping/trucking water into CA should even be mentioned/considered until conservation measures in CA are on par with the desert states that surround them.

 

Yeah, I have to say, it's headlines about lawns that really make it hard for California to press their case.

 

When they are charging less for water to undercut our produce (fair enough, it's a free market), when they are charging less for green lawns... well, you're not going to get Washington State voters up in arms to just pipe water down there. And our own fish are dying, and our own forests are burning. And nobody in my vicinity waters their lawn, and we don't have green grass in our medians, we have local bushes. Just try to ask me to give up the little water we use to water our native plants for Californians to have green lawns. And I live in a rainforest, but we are planning to be California in 30 years with global warming. That's the plan, anyway, when we look at real forecasts.  California will be like Mexico, we will be like California, and Alaska will be like us. The Russians are buying in Sibera planning for cotton crops in 50 years. Before my ex lost his citizenship, we were going to do that, actually.

 

Denial won't get us anywhere.

 

Not to mention, as posters above have mentioned, they have been getting lots of water from Colorado and it wasn't as if the fact that they had to pipe it in through the desert made them all conservationist. They just thought they could get more and more. By "they" I mean those that treated water as an easy come, easy go commodity.

 

As for lawn paint, people around here were using that last year. The cool kids had Seahawks logos on their lawns. We just created a couple of planter areas for local shrubs, and are expanding more this year. We've never watered but we get a lot of rain. It's only the drought that's making us renovate the front. In the back we are thinking astroturf for a little soccer / badminton / croquet area if we can afford it, because it's turning to dirt. It's cheaper than buying the water.

 

As for weeds, my advice is to plant local "weeds". Clover is GREAT for keeping out weeds and I personally think it looks lovely, and looking for four-leaf clovers is a pastime. Our goal is that by the time she wants to sell this house, she will be kind do us and give us a ton of notice because there will be a gorgeous garden in front with paths of clover. :)

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Well, evidently it is rather expensive right now. From an article in the San Jose Mercury-News:

 

Desalinated water typically costs about $2,000 an acre foot -- roughly the amount of water a family of five uses in a year. The cost is about double that of water obtained from building a new reservoir or recycling wastewater, according to a 2013 study from the state Department of Water Resources.

 

 

Here's the full article about what is in process, though:

 

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25859513/nations-largest-ocean-desalination-plant-goes-up-near

But, if you're out if water, does cost really matter?

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I've been admiring this landscaping, but I have no idea what it would cost or if it's as low-maintenance as it appears.

The ground cover in front looks like creeping juniper which loves sun and can do well during droughts. In that picture, a few more junipers would make it look more like a carpet. There are also two yuccas. You can probably get both at Home Depot for not too much. The rest I don't know.

 

Check out California native plants. They are very beautiful and might be better suited for the conditions. As a bonus, they also benefit the native insects and critters.

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But, if you're out if water, does cost really matter?

 

I think the point is that they actually do have water, but they have not managed it properly. California is not the driest state. They can re-stock the aquifers and they can also conserve much more rainwater, but do not. Their problem is twofold: overconsumption of water, like having green grass lawns in a mediterranean climate and growing more water-intensive crops, and also under-investment in infrastructure. There is a lot of less expensive infrastructure they can pursue before going to seawater extraction.

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The ground cover in front looks like creeping juniper which loves sun and can do well during droughts. In that picture, a few more junipers would make it look more like a carpet. There are also two yuccas. You can probably get both at Home Depot for not too much. The rest I don't know.

 

Check out California native plants. They are very beautiful and might be better suited for the conditions. As a bonus, they also benefit the native insects and critters.

My apologies for the misleading post. Not in California, but interested in water conservation and thought this was an attractive example of xeriscaping. This photo is in a sub-desert climate close to where I live with native (I think, I'm so not a gardener) plants. I appreciate your info.

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What about a rain barrel?

 

I am a new resident to CA, but when I hear of the waste from the aging infrastructure and how much fresh water leaks (8 billion gallons in LA alone), it frankly makes me pretty angry to see the state requiring brown lawns. How much water was dumped into the ocean a few years ago when there wasn't a drought because there weren't good storage options? It seems that everyone knows that CA will have droughts, and they are passing water bonds to try to solve the issue, but we havent done anything yet. We need some good solutions that adequately cover our needs without punishing the residents.

 

We are still doing ok with the rain we have been getting here. Two weeks ago, we saw all the sprinklers going in the rain at the local public school. It's not so much the residents wasting water.

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