Are there any colleges/universities that will accept you on MERIT ONLY?

[housemouse]

Just based on your grades and your knowledge of the field you plan on studying (and nothing else)

 

Just wondering

Thank you

[regentrude]

I am not sure what exactly you are asking. There are lots of colleges that take pretty much every student. It's not hard to get "into college".

 

There are colleges that require no standardized test scores.

There are colleges that allow a good GPA to make up for a not so good test score.

 

If you mean: are there highly selective schools that consider only your grades and nothing else? No, I doubt those exist.

 

 

[creekland]

Plenty of kids from our local public school go on to college with few if any formal extra curriculars.  I presume they are admitted based upon their grades and/or SAT scores.

 

It really isn't difficult to get into "a" college.  It's difficult to get into "selective" or "highly selective" colleges.

[housemouse]

I don't refer to the Ivy League or highly exclusive schools. I mean very good schools with good teachers good programs who will take you in because you know the subject you further plan to study and plan to make a living based on you final degree. Not that you are accepted because you have more community service hours than the guy next to you or you were a member of more clubs than the guy next to you even if both of you are equal academically.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[regentrude]

I don't refer to the Ivy League or highly exclusive schools. I mean very good schools with good teachers good programs who will take you in because you know the subject you further plan to study and plan to make a living based on you final degree. Not that you are accepted because you have more community service hours than the guy next to you or you were a member of more clubs than the guy next to you even if both of you are equal academically.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

There are plenty of those.

And typically, the student's knowledge of the subject he is going to study does not come into play at all. The student needs to have good high school grades to get into good public universities, but they don't expect him to already know the stuff he is going to study.

 

I teach at a 4 year public STEM university with an acceptance rate of around 90%. It is not highly selective - but a good school with very good teachers, and our graduates are getting very good jobs. Extracurriculars have no bearing on admission.

[Gwen in VA]

What field?

 

If you mean music, then of course -- students attend conservatories that really don't care much if you can read or write well.

 

If you mean science and math, then yes -- look at good state schools. (And if your "nothing but academics" includes AoPS classes, AP classes, and science competitions, then more power to you!)

 

If you mean English, then look at St. John's or Hollins or..... With the right test scores, I'd imagine you'd get in.

[creekland]

I don't refer to the Ivy League or highly exclusive schools. I mean very good schools with good teachers good programs who will take you in because you know the subject you further plan to study and plan to make a living based on you final degree. Not that you are accepted because you have more community service hours than the guy next to you or you were a member of more clubs than the guy next to you even if both of you are equal academically.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

Again, admission happens solely on credentials at all but the highly selective or selective schools.  Check to see what graduates are doing to see if an individual school is worthy of consideration for the desired field.

[housemouse]

Right now kids are looking at chemical/biomedical/biochemical engineering and mechanical/electrical engineering. They still have some time to make final decisions. It just seems that anything engineering is super competitive and "extras" is usually what gets you in.

[teachermom2834]

I think most schools are that way. Even many scholarships are gpa/test score based. There are plenty of discussions of the ways to get admitted to the highly selective schools but that is a very small percentage of colleges and universities. If you aren't aiming for those all you need are academic credentials. My one dc who isn't interested in doing all those extras knows that the highly selective schools are off the table. He will have plenty of options based on academics alone.

[elegantlion]

I don't refer to the Ivy League or highly exclusive schools. I mean very good schools with good teachers good programs who will take you in because you know the subject you further plan to study and plan to make a living based on you final degree. Not that you are accepted because you have more community service hours than the guy next to you or you were a member of more clubs than the guy next to you even if both of you are equal academically.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

You should look into admissions requirements of  your state universities. The school I attend has various ways to gain admittance, mostly stemming from ACT/SAT score or GPA. 

 

I wasn't sure what to expect when I enrolled as tuition is some of the cheapest in the state. I've been pleasantly surprised at the quality of instruction and level of concern the professors have for student success. 

 

So good non-exclusive schools exist, you might need to dig a little to find the right one for your situation. 

[regentrude]

 It just seems that anything engineering is super competitive and "extras" is usually what gets you in.

 

The bolded is simply not correct, except for a few highly selective programs.

 

Btw, the majority of students at my institution are majoring in engineering disciplines.

 

[Tsuga]

There are two questions you seem to be asking.

 

The first is, is there any college which will not consider extracurriculars in admission. I.e. two people who have the same GPA, coursework, and test scores will be considered equally even if the second has won the Nobel Peace Prize or was a lifeguard for 10 years straight. Frankly, I don't know. I'm not going to lie: at our state flagship, though both might get in, the lifeguard/Nobel Prize winner does have a better chance.

 

But there may be universities that absolutely do not consider the person in admissions. I think the more selective you get, the more they need to pull extracurriculars out to choose between people.

 

The second is, can you get in without extras? The answer is, yes. Of course. They want a mix of students, from the purely academically strong ones to well-rounded ones to ones that don't fit their profile exactly but who will enrich the class discussion in many areas and who may be ready to bloom in that area.

[creekland]

Right now kids are looking at chemical/biomedical/biochemical engineering and mechanical/electrical engineering. They still have some time to make final decisions. It just seems that anything engineering is super competitive and "extras" is usually what gets you in.

 

What region of the country?  Is need-based aid a concern?  What are their (rough) SAT scores?  Do they have a preference on city vs suburb vs rural or any of the other things that distinguish colleges on fit?

 

Many states have really good engineering programs within state colleges, but grades and scores will need to line up with students to get in, because yes, engineering is a popular major.  Still, if your student's grades and scores line up, chances for admission should be decent even without much in extracurriculars.

 

There are several private colleges with engineering too, but finances can come into play with these.  

 

Merit aid at some schools is based solely upon test scores and grades.  If scores are high, consider places like U Alabama or Pitt.

[Jenny in Florida]

Another thought, if even ACT/SAT scores are too much to worry about, is for students to enroll at a good community college, most of which will accept students as long as they are breathing and willing to pay tuition. A student who puts in two years at a good community college and has good grades in the most challenging classes available can then transfer to a solid state university with programs in the field(s) in which he or she is interested.

 

Edited to add: I got curious, and so went to look at programs at our local community college.

 

They have "articulated pre-major" programs in engineering that prepare students to transfer as juniors to a variety of four-year universities.

 

http://valenciacollege.edu/aadegrees/premajors_list.cfm

 

 

[regentrude]

Another thought, if even ACT/SAT scores are too much to worry about, is for students to enroll at a good community college, most of which will accept students as long as they are breathing and willing to pay tuition. A student who puts in two years at a good community college and has good grades in the most challenging classes available can then transfer to a solid state university with programs in the field(s) in which he or she is interested.

 

but the student should be aware that it is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, to graduate in an engineering major in four years if he chooses this option, because he won't be able to take any courses in his major at most CCs. (Heck, it is difficult for most students who start out at a university to graduate in 4 years).

 

ETA: The program pp linked seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

 

[Tsuga]

but the student should be aware that it is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, to graduate in an engineering major in four years if he chooses this option, because he won't be able to take any courses in his major at most CCs.

 

 

At our school (CC), what many students will do, if they don't have the grades / SATs, is meet with a counselor at the four year as well as the CC. They then will take a set of courses that cover math and general education requirements and get their 4.0. They don't do the full two years. They usually do one year plus a summer and cover their first two math series (often will overlap math classes) and all their humanities. Then they go transfer those to the four-year and have basically all their general education and beginning weed-out math out of the way.

 

We hate that pattern because then we don't get the "credits" for their attendance--it counts as a "drop out" as if we'd failed to keep them in school, even though the students are making a rational choice for themselves and we don't want to advise them otherwise. It would not be fair because it would be stupid for them to repeat classes.

[MBM]

I was going to say Deep Springs which is a two-year program. The students who manage to finish there go to various institutions throughout the world in different fields.

 

Some schools put more weight on grades and test scores than others. I think you can look that info up at websites like College Data.

I don't refer to the Ivy League or highly exclusive schools. I mean very good schools with good teachers good programs who will take you in because you know the subject you further plan to study and plan to make a living based on you final degree. 

 

 

Your perception of what admissions is like at most colleges does not match my perception.

 

In addition to what other people are saying, I dare say the overwhelming majority of incoming freshman who want to major in, (say), electrical or biomedical engineering do so because they want to work in that field.  Why else would you pick such a major?

[bettyandbob]

I've visited most state universities in my state. They are varying degrees of selectivity (small public ivy, large nationally ranked engineering school, down to schools which are less selective).

 

At every single tour, the admissions officer talk included stating that the number one and two things in close level of importance were grades and test scores. At the more selective schools the types of courses taken were evaluated too. Things like essays and extracurricular involvement were secondary considerations. If your stats put you on the border of admissions they'd look at those things. And there thing that sounded like it through the candidate one way or another was the essay not the extra curriculars . Now, a student write about his extra curricular in the essay and heavy involvement in the extracurricular might give meangful things to say. Another thing to keep in mind is that work is an extracurricular to many admissions committees.

 

So, in my state, merit measures (grades and testing performance) results in most admissions decisions.

 

But as someone else said, given two applications with identical stats they are going to look at other thing. Extracurriculars can be the thing that pushes one application over the other.

[wapiti]

.

Edited January 12, 2016 by wapiti

[MarkT]

Right now kids are looking at chemical/biomedical/biochemical engineering and mechanical/electrical engineering. They still have some time to make final decisions. It just seems that anything engineering is super competitive and "extras" is usually what gets you in.

make sure the school is ABET accredited in the desired major -  check selectivity rating against other ABET schools

 

example

RPI is a good Engineering college that generally admits a fair amount of "nerds" on merit (high Math SAT, etc) that may be less "rounded" than other students. I am not using the term nerd derisively.  

The person wants a good tech background before going into law, management, finance, or a health speciality.

 

I would say that a patent lawyer with an electrical engineering background is still working in the field of engineering, as is a manager of such a firm with an MBA, or the accountant thereto.

I don't refer to the Ivy League or highly exclusive schools. I mean very good schools with good teachers good programs who will take you in because you know the subject you further plan to study and plan to make a living based on you final degree. 

 

 

And, assuming this is true, how would you demonstrate to colleges that you know this particular subject well?  I would say that if this is important to you (and I don't think it is critical to admissions in general), extracurriculars are the best way to show it.  There's a boardie who runs her local rocketry team, which has done very well, and made it to the national championships.  Those kids probably know more about aerospace engineering than most of their peers, and if any of them want to major in that field, well, that EC shows they know the field pretty well.

[teachermom2834]

Was just going to mention RPI. I know a boy who is brilliant. Perfect ACT, valedictorian of huge high school, national science and robotics competitions but nothing else. Had even taken some of the highest level physics courses dual enrollment through our major research uni. Very difficult person to be around and even had difficulty finding teachers to write recommendations for him. He got denied at MIT, Stanford, Cornell, CalTech and some others but did end up at RPI. Merit was not enough for those other schools but he has done well at RPI.

[JanetC]

but the student should be aware that it is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, to graduate in an engineering major in four years if he chooses this option, because he won't be able to take any courses in his major at most CCs.

 

This will vary greatly by state and community college system. For example, Washington State University is actually starting to offer a four-year engineering degree on a community college campus.

 

You officially start at Everett Community College - http://www.everettcc.edu/

And finish at WSU - Everett, which is on the same campus - http://everett.wsu.edu/

 

Cascadia Community College and UW-Bothell are a similar 2 year to 4 year program on the same campus, though not in engineering.

[bettyandbob]

another we were told, if the application gets to point that ECs are considered, because test scores and grades were just enough to put the applicant on the edge, the admissions people we spoke to said bunches of randomness activities do not matter. Random volunteering just to meet hours will not help. A zillion clubs will not help. A commitment to something longterm is what is preferred or commitment to related things. That commitment can be to work or a hobby or a volunteer thing or a sport, etc.

 

But really the emphasis was high grades, high test scores and it's very likely they will never see you did anything at all.

 

Those ECs might be considered later for some scholarship programs at certain schools, but for general admission for our state schools no.

[creekland]

This will vary greatly by state and community college system. For example, Washington State University is actually starting to offer a four-year engineering degree on a community college campus.

 

You officially start at Everett Community College - http://www.everettcc.edu/

And finish at WSU - Everett, which is on the same campus - http://everett.wsu.edu/

 

Cascadia Community College and UW-Bothell are a similar 2 year to 4 year program on the same campus, though not in engineering.

 

A quick search has me wondering if these are ABET or not.  Washington State at Pullman is, but I don't know if that includes Everett?

 

http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx

 

For engineering, I would definitely want an ABET program.

[bettyandbob]

but the student should be aware that it is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, to graduate in an engineering major in four years if he chooses this option, because he won't be able to take any courses in his major at most CCs. (Heck, it is difficult for most students who start out at a university to graduate in 4 years).

 

ETA: The program pp linked seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

 

In VA, VA Tech has been coordinating with NVCC, since the 1970s when my brother was a student. There is a specific list of courses that transfer to engineering programs at VT. A student must work closely with NVCC transfer counsellors and earn very high grades, but transferring and staying on track in engineering can be done.

[plansrme]

UGa and Ga Tech, I believe, consider GPA and SAT/ACT scores only in their early action round. That is the lore anyway. The second round of decisions that come out in March are supposedly based on a more holistic review of the application. Perhaps other Big State Us have similar approaches.

ETA: I disagree that ECs do not indicate "merit." If you have maintained a heavy course load and impeccable grades while, oh let's say, spending 25 hours/week pursuing your sport, that says something. I am not a fan of ECs for the sake of having something to put on an application, but having an activity you pursue for the sake of that activity does make you more interesting than someone who just goes to school.

[Caroline]

UGa and Ga Tech, I believe, consider GPA and SAT/ACT scores only in their early action round. That is the lore anyway. The second round of decisions that come out in March are supposedly supposedly based on a more holistic review of the application. Perhaps other Big State Us have similar approaches.

 

ETA: I disagree that ECs do not indicate "merit." If you have maintained a heavy course load and impeccable grades while, oh let's say, spending 25 hours/week pursuing your sport, that says something. I am not a fan of ECs for the sake of having something to put on an application, but having an activity you pursue for the sake of that activity does make you more interesting than someone who just goes to school.

I agree with your post.

 

 

When Clough was president of Georgia Tech, (in the 1990's) he changed their admissions so that more well-rounded candidates were given preference, specifically those with a dabbling in the fine arts or sports. He just wanted them to have something besides robotics club on their resume. It makes for a better student body. I actually talked to him about it at a couple of dinners I went to with him. (I was the first student to whom he handed BD, MS, and PhD diplomas to, although my BS was when we were both at a different university. He thought that was cool.) I don't know what changes have been made since then.

[justasque]

My question is - why does the student have no "extras"?  Is it lack of interest, lack of time, lack of money?  

Is it that the student spends their time doing something that's not easily packaged as an EC, such as being an avid reader, or serious cook, or tinkering with electronics from discarded appliances?  Is it that they have a part-time job?  Either of these things can be presented as ECs on the application, you just need to figure out how to fit them into the stock questions; the admissions staff should be able to advise you about this.

Can you add on to some of the students' interests, by finding related activities?  This would both enrich the student and enrich their application.  For example, is there a local hobby group that is a good fit for the student's interests?

Engineers can be a geeky lot, with a decent percentage of spectrum-y folks in the mix.  If your student is interested in engineering enough to stick with it for five years of schooling, what does their interest look like?  Making things?  Doing math?  Figuring out how things work?  Airplanes?  Bridges?  Electrical gadgets?  Computers?  There are lots of ways to feed these interests, especially for homeschoolers, that enrich both the student and his or her college apps.  

[G5052]

Students need to show balance.  Some schools don't require that, but many do because employers expect balance.  This is why the selective STEM schools look at more than just grades.  They want their graduates to present well and do well in the workplace.

 

I worked in scientific research with some who had top-notch PhD's and could truly not hold a decent conversation about anything beyond work.  And in the long run, their careers suffered.  Funding agencies want to know that the people they're funding are decent human beings, and the other scientists and technicians working for them need a relationship with the person over them.  Being a great conversationalist and getting along with everyone isn't the whole picture, but it sure helps on top of the technical details to have some ability in those areas.

 

A friend of ours recently told me that their son turned down induction into the top college honor society because he doesn't want to be bothered with "that stuff."  I didn't want to be discouraging, but "that stuff" is important to scholarship committees and employers.  If mine did that, we'd have a DISCUSSION.  It tells people that you are more than your grades.

[housemouse]

Many, many great ideas here and a lot of information for me to process. With everything I have read, and I agree with good portion of what was said, how do I find something that would be of interest for a child who loves anything chemistry and anything math? Where we live the only thing that is remotely engineering or science related is a Robotics team but he is not interested in that.  There is a summer biochemical internship with local university but it is only for seniors in high school and we are not up to that grade yet. There is a talk of the county starting a science club but it looks to be more environmental science- study local rivers, streams, habitats and pollution effects on them- he is not very interested in that either. There is very little of chemistry involved here based on what the organizer told me.

 

He want to see how different components of material would work under different conditions, how by changing molecular composition would either improve that material of make it worse.

How different chemicals and compounds present themselves under different conditions and what can be done to utilize their particular properties to improve items we already utilize.

How different parts of medications interact with each other and with the human body and how changing the composition can improve medication effect and lessen side effects on the body. 

 

These are thing that this dc loves and I am at a loss where  to look for even remotely related.

I would love to hear ideas if anyone has any.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[wapiti]

Would he be interested in exploring online communities such as AoPS for math?  How about math competitions, e.g. AMC ?  Summer math camps?  What grade is he currently?

[TechWife]

 

A friend of ours recently told me that their son turned down induction into the top college honor society because he doesn't want to be bothered with "that stuff."  I didn't want to be discouraging, but "that stuff" is important to scholarship committees and employers.  If mine did that, we'd have a DISCUSSION.  It tells people that you are more than your grades.

 

I would probably side with your friend's son on this. I didn't require my son to apply to the university honors college, even though it came with a scholarship. The reason he didn't want to do so was similar: He didn't want to have to live in the residential living community and he didn't want to have to do the honors college gen. ed. requirements because they are more difficult than what is required by his major. I'm good with that - I'd rather him save his energy for courses in his major than spend it early on in more difficult gen. ed. requirements than are necessary to his course of study. 

[AK_Mom4]

Many, many great ideas here and a lot of information for me to process. With everything I have read, and I agree with good portion of what was said, how do I find something that would be of interest for a child who loves anything chemistry and anything math? Where we live the only thing that is remotely engineering or science related is a Robotics team but he is not interested in that.  There is a summer biochemical internship with local university but it is only for seniors in high school and we are not up to that grade yet. There is a talk of the county starting a science club but it looks to be more environmental science- study local rivers, streams, habitats and pollution effects on them- he is not very interested in that either. There is very little of chemistry involved here based on what the organizer told me.

 

He want to see how different components of material would work under different conditions, how by changing molecular composition would either improve that material of make it worse.

How different chemicals and compounds present themselves under different conditions and what can be done to utilize their particular properties to improve items we already utilize.

How different parts of medications interact with each other and with the human body and how changing the composition can improve medication effect and lessen side effects on the body. 

 

These are thing that this dc loves and I am at a loss where  to look for even remotely related.

I would love to hear ideas if anyone has any.

 

Thank you.

 

Job shadowing during the summer might be a possibility.  You can also investigate the local professional groups in the field and see if they will be offering talks or seminars that might be interesting.

 

During high school, my older kids all had activities that ended up being interesting on their college applications. Some of these were things my kids were passionate about (DD volunteered her time assisitng the local elementary and jr high band teachers) and some were things they did just as volunteers because it needed to be done (umpiring baseball games, building raised vegetable beds at church).  You might look for clubs or activities for younger kids where your son could teach some some of the things he is excited about.  Maybe start a Science Club at the local Boys and Girls club or tutor math after school.

 

 

[JanetC]

These are thing that this dc loves and I am at a loss where  to look for even remotely related.

I would love to hear ideas if anyone has any.

 

 

In one of David Albert's books he has an essay about helping his daughter build a telescope. This consisted of him calling a bunch of people and asking stupid questions until somebody explained to him what he needed to know in a way he could understand. That's sort of how it goes.

 

At my house it was, "How on earth do we study the surface of Mars?"  Fortunately, NASA puts a lot of data out for free on the web. Unfortunately, it was all WAY over our heads...

 

There's also something to be said for doing things that aren't a perfect fit, but are somewhat related. The environmental science club may not be chemistry-focused, but he can still practice science and maybe some chemistry-related work could be found (measuring the pH of streams, maybe?). Could your dc find a way to contribute his chemistry enthusiasm without making extra work for the organizers of the group?

 

And, I have to say, we're not always successful. We haven't found a mentor to establish a long-term relationship with. We made the semifinals for a fabulous learning opportunity, but were ultimately not selected. But, every time I want to complain about how far we are from where she wants to be, I have to remember to be thankful for how far we have come, even if it hasn't been a straight or efficient path.

 

The only thing you can do is keep trying, and as dc gets older, more and more it's his job to try, not yours.

[Tsuga]

Many, many great ideas here and a lot of information for me to process. With everything I have read, and I agree with good portion of what was said, how do I find something that would be of interest for a child who loves anything chemistry and anything math?

 

A lot of people do things they don't like, for the sole purpose of earning money, building character, and building a resume. You might want to consider that. Surely you did not think that there are 14-year-olds picking up trash for fun. Believe me, I did NOT do a sport, student government, and volunteering in high school because I wanted to be popular, fit, or involved. It was for my resume. I still take on tasks at work that are not fun. You do the grunt work, you get rewarded. 

 

This is why extracurriculars, particularly community service, do count for some competitive colleges. Because they show breadth of character that is not evident in a person who has the luxury of only pursuing things he wants to pursue as a child. Every job will start out with doing some things you don't like. There WILL be Power Points, meeting minutes, grant applications, HR forms, etc. That's just how it goes. My partner and I both work in very interesting jobs that are related to our training and are in STEM fields, but we still have hobbies and even if we didn't we'd still have to do parts of our jobs that have nothing to do with our primary interests.

 

Where we live the only thing that is remotely engineering or science related is a Robotics team but he is not interested in that.  There is a summer biochemical internship with local university but it is only for seniors in high school and we are not up to that grade yet. There is a talk of the county starting a science club but it looks to be more environmental science- study local rivers, streams, habitats and pollution effects on them- he is not very interested in that either. There is very little of chemistry involved here based on what the organizer told me.

 

A lot of people start their own groups and clubs. We started a socialist club, and I also created my own coursework in high school to be competitive for colleges.

 

He want to see how different components of material would work under different conditions, how by changing molecular composition would either improve that material of make it worse.

How different chemicals and compounds present themselves under different conditions and what can be done to utilize their particular properties to improve items we already utilize.

How different parts of medications interact with each other and with the human body and how changing the composition can improve medication effect and lessen side effects on the body. 

 

Great. He's not alone. But he can learn a lot about these by:

--Setting up a lab in the garage. Just setting up a sophisticated lab would be good. It will also take initiative.

--Volunteering to teach these principles to younger kids, homeschooled or otherwise.

--Working at a local hospital. Even if he doesn't get to do the chemistry--that's years away--he will get to see how that kind of thing is used in real life.

 

 

These are thing that this dc loves and I am at a loss where  to look for even remotely related.

I would love to hear ideas if anyone has any.

 

Thank you.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Many, many great ideas here and a lot of information for me to process. With everything I have read, and I agree with good portion of what was said, how do I find something that would be of interest for a child who loves anything chemistry and anything math? Where we live the only thing that is remotely engineering or science related is a Robotics team but he is not interested in that.  There is a summer biochemical internship with local university but it is only for seniors in high school and we are not up to that grade yet. There is a talk of the county starting a science club but it looks to be more environmental science- study local rivers, streams, habitats and pollution effects on them- he is not very interested in that either. There is very little of chemistry involved here based on what the organizer told me.

 

He want to see how different components of material would work under different conditions, how by changing molecular composition would either improve that material of make it worse.

How different chemicals and compounds present themselves under different conditions and what can be done to utilize their particular properties to improve items we already utilize.

How different parts of medications interact with each other and with the human body and how changing the composition can improve medication effect and lessen side effects on the body. 

 

These are thing that this dc loves and I am at a loss where  to look for even remotely related.

I would love to hear ideas if anyone has any.

 

Thank you.

 

We have been in a position where some of my kids' opportunities are limited because we've moved several times during their high school years.  We have counseled them to take the opportunities that present themselves, because that is what is at hand.  Sometimes this has taken them outside their comfort zone or not been the thing that they would have really wanted.

 

But in some instances, taking what was at hand has been the activity that put them in a network for other things.  Sometimes it provided the letter of recommendation that got them into a particular program years earlier than they might have otherwise.

 

In your situation, I would suggest that your son try to be one of the driving forces behind getting the local science program off the ground.  Not only would it give him a leadership role and possible access to mentors, but it might give him the opportunity to direct the group into areas of interest.  

 

 

He might check into the American Chemical Society.  There might be something of interest there.  http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education.html

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

OP,

My kids all have very different personalities and different goals. What they spend their time doing in high school is completely reflected in their choices. I do not "groom" my kids for college applications. They do what they do bc it is authentic them. They do not do what others do bc they need to check off some box.

Fwiw, most colleges could careless about ECs. Unless you are looking at competitive admission rates, all that is going to matter are test scores and GPA for acceptance. When you start talking about "extras" like certain non-guaranteed admission scholarships, honors programs, etc, those are going to be evaluated far more holistically on a resume type format.

Does it make a difference? It really depends on how you look at it. Our oldest was not hugely involved in ECs. He loved Scouts and was an Eagle at a fairly early age and then moved to Ventures. He had a very serious girlfriend (who is now his wife) and he worked part-time (he needed $$ to fund dating said girlfriend ;) ) Worrying about standing out on a college application was no where on his list of priorities. He applied to a small instate tech university where we never even doubted for a minute he would be accepted. He went to school and did exceedingly well. He came home for the summer after his freshman yr and worked at the local grocery store. By the second summer he had started to stand out so much academically that he was recruited by professors for summer research and he never came home again bc he was always moving forward with actual career focused employment. He had a great coop job, graduated with honors, and had multiple job offers.

--in sum, his college application process and path to career was completely low key and zero stress. It was college, work, and outstanding at both that mattered.

In 100% contrast to our oldest ds, our youngest ds had lots of ECs and had incredibly high levels of achievement. Conversely, he never had a part-time job (or a girlfriend ;)). By the time he applied to college, he had already been actively involved in research at 2 academic summer camps, research he did at home, research at a local university with one of the professors. He was also an Eagle, but on top of that he volunteered at Little Sisters of the Poor bc that is just who he is. (I have always said that if he rejects his academic path and becomes a priest I will not be surprised. He has a huge heart and he feels called to serve and he does just bc he really wants to serve other people.)

But.....it also has made a different path for him. He is attending on full scholarship. He is part of a competitive honors research program. As a freshman, he already stood out. He has been actively recruited for research by more than 1 professor and is employed this summer doing research. We see him occasionally for visits, but he is already 100% on a career development path and has been so since the beginning of high school.

Fwiw, it is 100% him. I did nothing different between him and his older brother. They are just very different people.

Our current high school student is very different again. She is actually a much stronger academic student than any of her older siblings. She is also something none of them are.....she is an introvert. She spends her free time painting, writing in her common place books and turning them into works of art, reading etc. She volunteers at church and loves to ice skate. But, she has does not have the momentum and eagerness to engage in serious pursuits with professors at a university like our youngest ds. She is more content working 1-on-1 with private tutors and perfecting her individual goals quietly at home.

She knows all about the rat race of college admissions. She also knows that we have very limited ability to help pay for college. Her reality is that she will have to attend where we can afford. She is does not have the personality for a high stress competitive environment, unlike her brother who feeds off stress and channels stress into energy. Her situation just became even more complicated due to the fact that she was recently very ill and they believe she has Lupus.

If I had to predict her future, it would probably be somewhere between her two brothers. Her path to college is now going to have to be low stress and low key bc of her health. However, I do believe she will be like our youngest ds and will stand out right away bc her accomplishments are EVERY BIT as stellar as our youngest ds. The difference is that they are not as flashy and institution oriented. They have all been done quietly at home with the exception of competing in the Russian Olympiada. (And in hindsight, I realize now that she had been sick for quite a while and was sick when she competed. She actually is incredibly strong for being able to accomplish what she has for being as sick as she has been.)

Know what.....I am not worried about it. It is who she is. The world is not made up of only extroverted, high energy leaders. Quiet contemplatives have their place. She is one of them. Life is too precious to think we need our kids to be someone and something they are not.

 

A friend of ours recently told me that their son turned down induction into the top college honor society because he doesn't want to be bothered with "that stuff." I didn't want to be discouraging, but "that stuff" is important to scholarship committees and employers. If mine did that, we'd have a DISCUSSION. It tells people that you are more than your grades.

Our oldest started off in the honors program and dropped it. He didn't find anything of personal value in the program. He was an adult. It was his decision. I can't see that it impacted him negatively at all. He was recruited by professors for research. At graduation, he had multiple job offers. I think just like "institution name," it all boils down to it just depends. He had a resume full of employers bc he worked from the time he was 16. Every reference he had was stellar. I think he made a perfectly fine decision for him. He saw the honors program as only offering him additional requirements hindering his personal goals. Our youngest ds, otoh, is thriving in his honors program bc it offers him what he sees as both wants and needs.

*******
Basically there is no single path or answer. Some doors close. Others open.

[G5052]

Our oldest started off in the honors program and dropped it. He didn't find anything of personal value in the program. He was an adult. It was his decision. I can't see that it impacted him negatively at all. He was recruited by professors for research. At graduation, he had multiple job offers. I think just like "institution name," it all boils down to it just depends. He had a resume full of employers bc he worked from the time he was 16. Every reference he had was stellar. I think he made a perfectly fine decision for him. He saw the honors program as only offering him additional requirements hindering his personal goals. Our youngest ds, otoh, is thriving in his honors program bc it offers him what he sees as both wants and needs.

 

 

Yes, for a kid with those kinds of contacts, extras like honor societies and honor programs don't buy anything.

 

I'm more concerned about a kid who only goes to class and calls it a day.  The graduates we know who are significantly underemployed with a 4-year degree all did that.  No campus activities, no internships, no research gigs, and no co-ops.

 

I keep telling mine that you have to show more than grades, one way or another.

[Bluegoat]

Many, many great ideas here and a lot of information for me to process. With everything I have read, and I agree with good portion of what was said, how do I find something that would be of interest for a child who loves anything chemistry and anything math? Where we live the only thing that is remotely engineering or science related is a Robotics team but he is not interested in that.  There is a summer biochemical internship with local university but it is only for seniors in high school and we are not up to that grade yet. There is a talk of the county starting a science club but it looks to be more environmental science- study local rivers, streams, habitats and pollution effects on them- he is not very interested in that either. There is very little of chemistry involved here based on what the organizer told me.

 

Environmental science includes tons of chemistry.  TBH I do not know how they could about pollution in habitats without looking at chemistry.  My husband studies pollution in his job, and he is a chemist.  There are quite a lot of chemistry jobs that involve things like that.

 

[Bluegoat]

Here in Canada university admissions seem much simpler.  There is not nearly as much interest in EC, and you don't need SATs.  There are a few exceptions, but pretty much it is about sending in your high school marks.

 

There are some cases where admissions have become more open to people who do not have a very specific background, so arguable those people would now be competition.  The medical school here realized some time ago that people who become good doctors might not always be the people who have focused exclusively on just high marks in the sciences. 

 

Most schools here are happy to have applications from American students, though I don't know what all the details of that involve.

[Vida Winter]

Many, many great ideas here and a lot of information for me to process. With everything I have read, and I agree with good portion of what was said, how do I find something that would be of interest for a child who loves anything chemistry and anything math? Where we live the only thing that is remotely engineering or science related is a Robotics team but he is not interested in that.  There is a summer biochemical internship with local university but it is only for seniors in high school and we are not up to that grade yet. There is a talk of the county starting a science club but it looks to be more environmental science- study local rivers, streams, habitats and pollution effects on them- he is not very interested in that either. There is very little of chemistry involved here based on what the organizer told me.

 

He want to see how different components of material would work under different conditions, how by changing molecular composition would either improve that material of make it worse.

How different chemicals and compounds present themselves under different conditions and what can be done to utilize their particular properties to improve items we already utilize.

How different parts of medications interact with each other and with the human body and how changing the composition can improve medication effect and lessen side effects on the body. 

 

These are thing that this dc loves and I am at a loss where  to look for even remotely related.

I would love to hear ideas if anyone has any.

 

Thank you.

 

There are plenty of nationwide science and math competitions that can be tailored to his interests. I'd start there. A bonus is scholarship $$ for some of them.

 

[dhudson]

For CO School of Mines, they do admissions by SAT/ACT and transcript. They will accept recommendation letters and essays, but state that they are not required. However, I want to point out that getting MONEY for college is usually based on "those extras". Most schools (Mines included) have a basic: ACT of this, gpa of that--we give you X amount of money. Unless you're over their 75th percentile, it won't be a lot. For example the AVERAGE ACT for Mines last year was a 31! The 75th percentile for math SAT was a 710 the year before. Considering the ACT went up a point, probably the SAT did too. Ds's AFROTC scholarship was very much based on "those extras". He could not afford to attend without it. Most outside scholarships have a huge component of "extras".

 

This has been our experience as well. Grades and test scores got my ds into selective schools and programs but it was his "extras" that got him scholarship money.

[katilac]

This has been our experience as well. Grades and test scores got my ds into selective schools and programs but it was his "extras" that got him scholarship money.

 

And us as well. dd is just starting the application process, and we have found that several of the schools she is looking at have merit money based on GPA and test scores, but the higher levels of merit require extras. 

[Hikin' Mama]

Right now kids are looking at chemical/biomedical/biochemical engineering and mechanical/electrical engineering. They still have some time to make final decisions. It just seems that anything engineering is super competitive and "extras" is usually what gets you in.

My son (mechanical engineering major) is going to a state school that has a strong engineering program. He had extracurriculars, but would have been accepted merely on his grades and SAT scores alone. Not only that, but because he had good grades/SAT scores, he received three different scholarships without applying for them. (He does have to take 15 hours per term and maintain a 3.5 gpa to keep these, however. So far, so good!)

 

He could have also been accepted with lower grades/scores. I don't know if it's this way in all engineering programs, but at his school, everyone starts as pre-engineering and must apply to the engineering program after completing the required courses. Maybe that is what people are talking about in terms of competitiveness.

[VANURSEPRAC]

make sure the school is ABET accredited in the desired major -  check selectivity rating against other ABET schools

 

example

RPI is a good Engineering college that generally admits a fair amount of "nerds" on merit (high Math SAT, etc) that may be less "rounded" than other students. I am not using the term nerd derisively.  

 

 

 

How do I check the selectivity rating against other ABET schools.

 

For us, it will come down to where she receives the most automatic (non competitive) merit money and that will probably not line up with the most selectivity.

 

I am specifically looking at UT Dallas, Texas Tech and UA-Huntsville.

 

Also, does ABET matter with computer science?

[G5052]

 

Also, does ABET matter with computer science?

 

Yes, it does in some cases.  The school where I got my graduate degree won't accept non-ABET graduates unless they take certain classes in non-degree status first.

 

This is an "upper middle" state school with a handful of well-known professors.  Not an MIT or UCB, but a solid graduate school in computer science.

 

Some well-known companies also won't recruit at non-ABET schools.

[MarkT]

1)  How do I check the selectivity rating against other ABET schools.

 

2) For us, it will come down to where she receives the most automatic (non competitive) merit money and that will probably not line up with the most selectivity.

 

I am specifically looking at UT Dallas, Texas Tech and UA-Huntsville.

 

3) Also, does ABET matter with computer science?

1)  Use the available rating systems such as US News etc

2)  that's not "merit" aid which is competitive (grades, SAT, awards, etc) by my definition - are you looking for is financial aid based on family need?  or maybe "diversity aid" ?

3)  ABET is less of a factor for CS