s/o WWYD when NPDs get old and feeble and need help?

[Bluegoat]

No NPD, but my family has/has had some people with similar issues related more to addiction.

 

I don't think any of them have ever been totally abandoned when their health got bad - arrangements of one kind or another were made for care and I guess what you would call companionship. 

 

I think the thing really is not to expect that person to be in any way different, and not to be in any way drawn in.  I've always managed well with people like that because I don't get drawn in, but I know many people find it harder.  But ultimatly, I don't know that I would ever be willing to totally sever a human connection on my end, but even if it came to that I would also consider that as family, my obligation wasn't just to the ill person directly but a larger social obligation for care and support - the other option would likely be care on the public dime, but really why should the public care for this jerk any more than I would?  And yet even total jerks and murderers and psychopaths and abusers one day will need elder care.

 

The mechanics of arranging care in an instance like this could be terribly difficult though, especially for an only child who can't easily maintain a neutral relationship and who isn't well off.  My family has always managed because it is approached as an extended family issue, (and we don't have many only children helped as well.)

[ezrabean2005]

As I have gone no contact to keep all the "crazy" and abuse from hurting DH and my kids (as well as myself), I would never know about frailty or aging problems.

[FO4UR]

Nursing home. 

 

Trying to care for an NPD just kills the caretaker.  It really is better for the caretaking to happen by non-family, I think.  The fear of rejection keeps them from being as awful as they can be.

 

 

ETA:  And YES!!! to the "You are LUCKY I don't treat you the way you treated me when I was vulnerable/sick/out of surgery/at risk of death (and leaving 4 small kids behind)/etc..!!!"  I will not "repay evil for evil" as one poster put it, but I will not either allow the same garbage to resurface.  

[Epicurean]

Nursing home. 

 

Trying to care for an NPD just kills the caretaker.  It really is better for the caretaking to happen by non-family, I think.  The fear of rejection keeps them from being as awful as they can be.

 

Absolutely. Don't try to outlive someone with NPD; you'll die first from the stress.

 

Also, people with NPD take longer to die than Shakespearian actors. My MIL has been "dying" for thirty years.

[LucyStoner]

Absolutely. Don't try to outlive someone with NPD; you'll die first from the stress.

 

Also, people with NPD take longer to die than Shakespearian actors. My MIL has been "dying" for thirty years.

Yup, my not-grandmother has been, to hear her tell it, on death's door for 25 years. She's like the energizer bunny of nastiness.

[gardenmom5]

Yup, my not-grandmother has been, to hear her tell it, on death's door for 25 years. She's like the energizer bunny of nastiness.

 

 

dh used to tell me I was handling her wrong.

 

an example of "his way":

 

Oh, you just got back from the oncologist and he declared you cancer free?  that's wonderful.  you should be so happy . . . .

 

she couldn't get off the phone fast enough.  she hated talking to him.  he wouldn't allow her to whine.  he's very good at turning things back on a person.  (there's a reason he quit law school.  he didn't want to be "one of the reasons lawyers have the reputation they do".)

 

then she developed dementia and slept most of the time.

[LucyStoner]

My not-grandmother wouldn't have the slightest idea of how to contact me. She has no address, no email and no phone number. Life is too short.

[Guest iroanyikey]

They often did, once. And then they wised up.

[LMD]

Honestly I don't know what We'll do. I still feel incredible guilt and she was the one who cut me off (only until I divorce my husband!!!)

We'll probably support my sister in caring for her. I'll probably think it'll be different this time and wind up crazy and hurt again...

[G5052]

You basically do what you can while protecting yourself and yours.  I lived many states away.  Thankfully family friends and her sister kept me posted.  I have a sibling, but they weren't involved at first.  I had an eldercare lawyer there that I could reach by phone.

 

I intervened at a distance in every way I could until I was blocked legally, first by my mother, and then by the "golden child."  

 

I contacted DMV about her driving, and she lost her license. I contacted Adult Protective Services when she was physically abusing my father, but he refused help. I faxed their doctors with my concerns, and sometimes the doctors called me and acted. When Dad became immobile, I faxed his doctor and begged her to put him in a nursing home because Mom would just leave him in bed all day in a diaper.  When Mom refused to put him in hospice, I faxed the doctor again, and the doctor rescheduled appointments so Dad could sign the paperwork with the doctor during one of the rare times when he was lucid.

 

In the end, the "golden child" was in charge after Dad died because mom changed all of the legal paperwork, but they did a very poor job of it.  I continued to receive behind-the-back phone calls from concerned friends and professionals who were appalled at the inaction.  My sibling refused to put her in hospice when the time came, and she was tube fed and tied in the bed for quite awhile.

 

In good conscience, I can say that I did all I could.  It was very, very ugly though.  Even though I adore my aunt, I haven't been back there since Mom died.  Frankly I'd rather put all of that behind me and focus on my life now.

[cathmom]

Yes, MIL has also been "very ill" for over 20 years and never seems to get better, despite mainstream and alternative medical care and an increasingly specialized diet. Oh, and the pain is always "horrific."

[Matryoshka]

I don't know if MIL's got full-blown NPD or is just an incredibly narcissistic person, but I, unfortunately, am married to the Golden Child.  Except when he isn't, as there's also Golden Child who she gave up for adoption but found her years later (after everyone was grown up) - he's the only one who will listen to her whine.  In fact, they whine to each other, and dh has to hear how bad GC2 has it (when it's all of his own making).  But that's all GC2 does - whine and listen to her whine.  He never visits or helps - I actually think he's a lot like her, and they feed each other with their poor me shtick.  Dh will call her on her crap, and then she won't speak to him for weeks.  I think GC2 has pretty much taken on the GC spot emotionally for her, but Dh spent years in that position and while she doesn't treat him all GC anymore, he feels obligated to help her.

 

Everyone else has pretty much washed their hands of her.  One of his other brothers will call, the other will do pretty much nothing.  Dh is down there every weekend helping her out. :glare:   It's sucking the life out of him, and hey, guess what, he's got a family and a house of his own that don't get the attention they should because of this.  But she won't leave her house because she can 'handle it fine'.

 

I've had it at this point.  We found a nice assisted living place (not nursing home, nice place, and they'll take her cat too).  She won't even think of it.  I'm at the point of 'who cares', but since we can't kidnap her and duct tape her (and she still drives at 91), it's difficult.  'Put them in a place' is a lot easier said than done.  We can't put her there against her will.  I think the next step is dh has to stop enabling her, so she stops saying she's doing fine 'on her own'.  Something has to be done, as she's another one who's going to live to 110 just on spite.  Even though she says she's ready to die every time you talk to her.

 

 

[FO4UR]

The NPD in my life has sudden chest pains when light is brought upon reality.

 

I'm the evil DIL b/c I had to draw boundaries when I had my emergency c/s.  She has had people consider moving across the country to care-take for her b/c they thought I was mistreating her.  I couldn't stand up-right without binding my innards in tact...how I had the capacity to mistreat her, I do not know???  

 

She told my children that I could (was likely to) die.

 

She yelled at my children over toys in their bedroom floors while I was in the hospital and dying (from their perspective, thanks to MIL).

 

In short, she was highly abusive to my children as well.

 

When asked about any of this, she suddenly has chest pains and *I* am evil for making her sick.  I will gladly do her the favor of staying far, far away so that I never make her feel sick again.  She was most angry, I think, b/c she had picked me for her caretaker and I did not comply.

 

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

1.  Protect your family (meaning, spouse and kids)

2.  Cling to the truth.  In any disfunctional situation, that is the most important thing to do, mentally.  That doesn't mean you have to argue about every gaslighting item, but it DOES mean that you have to retain your inner conviction that what you have seen and heard and felt is actually true.  And although you don't have to assert that at every opportunity, it's not a bad idea to document it a bit.

3.  Don't make a rule for yourself that is completely absolute.  You're a person and you have a right to reduce contact without cutting it off. This does not have to be an all or nothing proposition.  You can have a general rule with your own exceptions.  Example:  You don't generally initiate contact, but you do send a nice card or email on someone's birthday.  Or not.  The point is, just because they are extreme and absolutist doesn't mean that you have to be.

4.  Be courteous but not submissive.  THIS IS HARD!  But it's part of being unreactive, and it is a very strong stance to take.

5.  Be responsible.  You don't necessarily have to provide care in a specific form, but as an overall thing, to ensure that the person HAS care, even if you're not involved with it directly, is a humane and consoling thing to do.  OTOH, don't be overly responsible.  You're responsible for yourself and your immediate family, too.  There is no one person who gets to trump that.

[shawthorne44]

Absolutely. Don't try to outlive someone with NPD; you'll die first from the stress.

 

Also, people with NPD take longer to die than Shakespearian actors. My MIL has been "dying" for thirty years.

 

My Evil Grandmother hit the limit on Last Rites.  Apparently, 9 times is the limit, because it was after the 9th that she actually died.  What was sad was that story was that story was pretty much it for the eulogy.  

[gardenmom5]

1.  Protect your family (meaning, spouse and kids)

2.  Cling to the truth.  In any disfunctional situation, that is the most important thing to do, mentally.  That doesn't mean you have to argue about every gaslighting item, but it DOES mean that you have to retain your inner conviction that what you have seen and heard and felt is actually true.  And although you don't have to assert that at every opportunity, it's not a bad idea to document it a bit.

3.  Don't make a rule for yourself that is completely absolute.  You're a person and you have a right to reduce contact without cutting it off. This does not have to be an all or nothing proposition.  You can have a general rule with your own exceptions.  Example:  You don't generally initiate contact, but you do send a nice card or email on someone's birthday.  Or not.  The point is, just because they are extreme and absolutist doesn't mean that you have to be.

4.  Be courteous but not submissive.  THIS IS HARD!  But it's part of being unreactive, and it is a very strong stance to take.

5.  Be responsible.  You don't necessarily have to provide care in a specific form, but as an overall thing, to ensure that the person HAS care, even if you're not involved with it directly, is a humane and consoling thing to do.  OTOH, don't be overly responsible.  You're responsible for yourself and your immediate family, too.  There is no one person who gets to trump that.

 

2.  documenting it is a good idea.  one of the frustrating things with NPD people is they can make you think YOU are the crazy person.

3  you never know what will happen.  I eventually enacted one 15 minute phone call, once a week - as long as she was civil, I'd talk.  one lasted three minutes - and only because this was in the days of corded phones and I was on the other side of a table.  she eventually developed dementia and was completely out of it.  I had more contact - but that was all about helping my mother.

5 :iagree:

[Tess in the Burbs]

well, we moved 3k miles away from my mom.  Reality is, she is going to repeat her mom's grand old age events, and I can't do it emotionally.  When I last visited my mom we had to attend her church functions that week.  Involved a lot of social situations.  She didn't even take the grandkids to their classes...she found someone else to do it.  But at the church potluck we had to attend all.day.long  I discovered people really thought I was a horrible person.  She had badmouthed me so much to all of them.  So we have moved 3k miles away, and when she gets old she has this church of people who love and dote on her.  I have no intention of changing anyone's minds....they can think what they want of my sister and me.  Ideally she will be on her own until the church people realize how crazy she is, and then I would be willing to come in and get her into a nursing home.  Until then, she has her tribe.  And I have distance to keep my family safe from her.  When she asked me to fly the kids to visit her this summer, both kids shook their heads no.  They love grandma, but they sure don't want to be there without me to shield them from her crazy. Speaks volumes.  Her close friend told me how horrible I was to my face.  So what to do with old NPD people?  Stay away.  You can't have normal relationships with them.  Best bet is to smile and let the NPD find their own group to support them.