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s/o WWYD when NPDs get old and feeble and need help?


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So, if you set up healthy boundaries with the NPD in your life and manage to keep the boundaries intact despite the guilting and the manipulations, what would you do if you found out that this person is getting old and feeble and needs occasional help and companionship? I have 2 NPDs in my life, one is severely arthritic and another has high blood pressure. Both are wonderful people to the outside world that their friends constantly ask me (probably sent by them?) why I do not visit them or spend my free time with them. I ran into one such friend of the NPD today who told me that it was a pity that such a warm and caring person (the NPD) had such an uncaring family member (me) who would rather go grocery shopping than visit the relative.

How to deal with an NPD who is getting old? Do the affected family usually suck it up and reestablish normal relationships?

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Run away! :driving:

 

 

Seriously, many people are old and feeble for 25 years, with no improvement to their personality. That's fine if you had a healthy relationship to begin with, but not with someone toxic.

 

The "helpful friend" can be given an answer like, "I have my reasons," or "We don't get along," or "By all means, visit [him/her] yourself if you two do well together."

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So, if you set up healthy boundaries with the NPD in your life and manage to keep the boundaries intact despite the guilting and the manipulations, what would you do if you found out that this person is getting old and feeble and needs occasional help and companionship? I have 2 NPDs in my life, one is severely arthritic and another has high blood pressure. Both are wonderful people to the outside world that their friends constantly ask me (probably sent by them?) why I do not visit them or spend my free time with them. I ran into one such friend of the NPD today who told me that it was a pity that such a warm and caring person (the NPD) had such an uncaring family member (me) who would rather go grocery shopping than visit the relative.

How to deal with an NPD who is getting old? Do the affected family usually suck it up and reestablish normal relationships?

 

 

UGH!  Just remember this person does not see or know what you see or know and never will.

 

I worry about this too.   My NPD person is now 84 despite horrible health for years and years.  She has told me since she turned 40 that this was most probably her last year on earth.  I kid you not, for 44 years I have heard the same, "You should do X for me because this is probably my last year on earth, you will regret not doing X for me because I won't be here for you to make it up to me."

 

One year "God" actually told her she was going to die.  Yeah, that was over 40 years ago.

 

I feel it will never end.

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My plan is to say, "Gee, it is a shame you were not nicer to me when you were healthy and I was young and vulnerable." And then I will, through my brother who still loves her, offer modest financial but no emotional or logistical support.

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So, if you set up healthy boundaries with the NPD in your life and manage to keep the boundaries intact despite the guilting and the manipulations, what would you do if you found out that this person is getting old and feeble and needs occasional help and companionship? I have 2 NPDs in my life, one is severely arthritic and another has high blood pressure. Both are wonderful people to the outside world that their friends constantly ask me (probably sent by them?) why I do not visit them or spend my free time with them. I ran into one such friend of the NPD today who told me that it was a pity that such a warm and caring person (the NPD) had such an uncaring family member (me) who would rather go grocery shopping than visit the relative.

How to deal with an NPD who is getting old? Do the affected family usually suck it up and reestablish normal relationships?

 

(don't know how that happened.  trying again.. . . )

 

it depends. 

is there any contact at all already?

how feeble are they? 

what are their circumstances?

 

in an ideal situation - if the money is there, I'd put them in a retirement home which provides meals and basic assistance, etc.  some will even do transportation to medical appointments.  group homes are also a possibility.

 

only in very *VERY* limited circumstances would I consider brining them into my home. 

 

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Narcissistic Personality Disorder Look it up in the dictionary--my mil's photo is there. 

 

my grandmother is your mil?

 

my mother was an only child - she didn't have any brothers . . . . .

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I do not have a NPD parent, but I do have a parent that I have to keep at arms length, or I end up emotionally exhausted and hurt. 

 

I make sure to only call on the phone so I can drop the call when ever I need to.  If she calls me, I only answer if it is convenient, usually I let it go to voice mail and answer later.

 

I send her $100 2x per year.  Once at Christmas and once at Mother's Day. My parent is always wanting to borrow money. If she calls me for money, If it is within reason, I will say something like: "I'll just send you, your Christmas gift a bit early so you can spend it now if you would like. That way you don't have to worry about paying me back".  She never, ever paid me back when she did borrow money, so this makes it easier on both of us.

 

I will not physically care for her.  The sister who she favored can do that.  When my dad was ill, I would send care packages of supplies to my mom, so I will likely do the same for them.  I would do a  $200 Costco run and stock them up on supplies.  That way I know the money was spent on items, and not gambling, cigs or alcohol. I buy things to make it easier on the care giver like paper plates, cups, paper towels, sanitizing wipes, etc.  That is my contribution.  I can not, nor will I, step one foot in to her house to care for her.  

 

My mom purposefully raised me to be very, very independent starting in my young teens. She didn't want me to rely on her, like my siblings all do. That blade cuts two ways. She wasn't a caring, supportive parent....so I don't feel a need to be a caring, supportive child.  

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If the person was in enough trouble, I would help. I think for each of us, the amount of what we consider enough trouble would be different. And, I have heard of cases where people became surprisingly sweet in old age. I suppose it is unusual though.

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I shall pray that you have NO understanding of what you have typed.

 

Do you understand that people with NPD are abusers? I honestly feel that the emotional abuse of a NPD is worse than the physical and sexual abuse I've suffered at the hands of others.

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You have no obligation towards abusive parents. Seriously, none. I'm assuming from the way that you've framed this that they really are abusive and not simply moderately unpleasant.

 

If they legitimately need help, and you can help out financially without incurring significant hardship, then do so. Hire a visiting nurse or pay part of their nursing home bills and otherwise keep on as you've been going on.

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Do you understand that people with NPD are abusers? I honestly feel that the emotional abuse of a NPD is worse than the physical and sexual abuse I've suffered at the hands of others.

Yes.

I find it so shocking when victims of abuse are repeatedly shamed when they do nothing more than try to protect themselves from further abuse. It happens so frequently I shouldn't be shocked but I am - I must have a little tiny optimist somewhere in my bones.

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   I class  this post right up there with " What goes around comes around." and " You reap what you sow."   Many of us have  heard those statements countless times from family members and well meaning family friends.   To me, statements like these are just out and out hurtful.  I grieve the loss of the relationship with this person and want it to be restored.  It took over two decades for me to reach the no contact point, and I can assure you that the decision was not made lightly. 

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Could you elaborate, then, on why you object to the nursing home comment?

I will not share intimate personal details about our two years experience with direct abuse of the elderly in nursing homes. My mother died nearly three months ago owing to this. Even with near-daily visits from family who kept tabs on things as best as we could.

 

No matter how abominably someone might treat me (and my mother never was anything but good to me), I would not wittingly sentence anybody to abandonment in a nursing home. I seek not to repay evil with evil.

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Whatever future care my "parents" may require will be my sister's job, not mine.  I wash my hands of them.  She's the "golden child" of my mother, and my father sent a vicious, hateful note in my daughters' Christmas box, informing me that he has ONE daughter now.  

 

I'm done.

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I will not share intimate personal details about our two years experience with direct abuse of the elderly in nursing homes. My mother died nearly three months ago owing to this. Even with near-daily visits from family who kept tabs on things as best as we could.

 

No matter how abominably someone might treat me (and my mother never was anything but good to me), I would not wittingly sentence anybody to abandonment in a nursing home. I seek not to repay evil with evil.

 

Editing this because my first reply wasn't very kind. I would like to say that I'm sorry for your loss and it's horrible that your mother suffered at the hands of people who were supposed to care for her.

 

But not all nursing homes are horrible and not all nursing home workers are evil. You slander a lot of people when you paint nursing homes as so horrible that even abusive parents don't deserve to live in them. That may be true of some nursing homes, but not all.

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Ok, what does this have to do with anything?  If the grandfather had abused the parents in the story, then they shouldn't have had the grandfather living with them in the first place.  People don't get a free pass because they gave birth.  

 

I got a bit of grief from some people at my evil grandmother's funeral.  I was there to support my mother who had continued to pine for a normal relationship with her mother.  In response to the grief I told a couple of factual stories.  The response was a blank look and "That wasn't the woman I knew."     

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Which is why my children will all get the whole story when they're old enough to handle all the rated R details of the N's life and exactly what he's done to me and them. Yeah, that's why N earned no contact, and if I ever treat you all like that please get me to a psychiatrist and on meds quick because I can't think of anything but lunacy that would cause me to treat my children the way he has me and his grandchildren.

 

Otherwise, that's a great story and there is a good bit of truth in for normal people in the world.

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Linking to snippets of Russian literature doesn't make you look wise.

 

If you are so worried about people like my mother's mother, YOU can care for them. My not-grandmother's abuse likely shaved decades off my mother's life and is why my sons will, at best, barely remember my mom, who was a wonderful person and died at age 55.

 

ETA- My younger son was 6 months old then. He's six now and what I wouldn't give for her to be sitting on my couch right now, reading a story to him like she did for my older son. She'd be 61 in a few days. She is dead and her abusive wreck of a mother is still kicking it. I know that I will exhale when I hear of her death. And I will raise a glass to my mom at that time and think about how sad it is my mother never got to live in a world free of her mother's nastiness and abuse. Some people make the world a better place just by being alive. And some people make the world a worse place. There is no way I could tolerate tending to that woman.

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Near the end, (which I didn't know at the time) I did enough so I could look in the mirror and not hate myself. I can now say I am darn proud of myself. I did the best I could under the circumstances.

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If the person was in enough trouble, I would help. I think for each of us, the amount of what we consider enough trouble would be different. And, I have heard of cases where people became surprisingly sweet in old age. I suppose it is unusual though.

the brain is an interesting thing.   e.g. Alzheimer's patients - some become violent and vile, and other's docile.  it can have nothing to do with what they were like when they were younger, but how their brain is affected.

 

Do you understand that people with NPD are abusers? I honestly feel that the emotional abuse of a NPD is worse than the physical and sexual abuse I've suffered at the hands of others.

 

:iagree:   I was molested when I was very young.  it was nothing compared to the damage by my NPD grandmother.  NOTHING. 

 

Whatever future care my "parents" may require will be my sister's job, not mine.  I wash my hands of them.  She's the "golden child" of my mother, and my father sent a vicious, hateful note in my daughters' Christmas box, informing me that he has ONE daughter now.  

 

I'm done.

 

:grouphug:

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I think that a lot of people are guilted into going back.  Unfortunately, I highly doubt that in 99.9% of cases it changes things...or the NPD person changes....or whatever.  Maybe they die feeling less guilty for hating this NPD person in their life?  But honestly, I think you have every right to disengage, never see a toxic person forever.  Even if they are your mother/father/sister/whatever.  

 

If you can afford to, and can pay for care, or arrange other care, great.  If not, so be it.  IMHO, if they hadn't been such a s*&t, they wouldn't be without the love of their family members.

 

(Harsh, I know.)

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No, we haven't re-established any sort of relationship.  

 

We have paid rent directly and bought groceries.  Right now my dh and BIL handle any direct contact.   My sister and I have absolutely no direct contact with this family member.  The NPD saves all of her venom  for the female sex so the guys can pretty much handle the contact for us. 

 

Honestly, I think you've done more than enough.

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I will not share intimate personal details about our two years experience with direct abuse of the elderly in nursing homes. My mother died nearly three months ago owing to this. Even with near-daily visits from family who kept tabs on things as best as we could.

 

No matter how abominably someone might treat me (and my mother never was anything but good to me), I would not wittingly sentence anybody to abandonment in a nursing home. I seek not to repay evil with evil.

Nursing homes are not evil. I know they aren't perfect but all of my relatives, both well off and poor who have had to go into nursing care have had decent, safe experiences. Sometimes end of life care can not be done at home, even if the relationship is strong.

 

I am sorry that your mom died so recently. I am also sorry she had a bad nursing care experience. Still generalizing her nursing home to all nursing homes is not valid.

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I moved to Australia. Then Hawaii. Now I live in Alaska.  If she keeps living, I'll keep finding 'far-away' places to live.

 

 

my friend's father took a job in seoul korea to get his own children away from his parents.  now she sees her cousins who grew up near the grandparents - and they all have serious issues . . . . .

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If you figure it out, will you let me know? My MIL is has earned herself extremely low contact with my DH, no contact with myself and our children (per him, he refuses to allow her to hurt us any more than she already has.) She recently began down a road that required multiple surgeries and will mean she will no longer be able to do even half of what she could before. After the first surgery she went to the rehab facility. After a week of arguing with her therapists and being ridiculous to my sister-in-law, she cussed them out and left AMA. Now she's even worse off than she was before... we have no idea what to do that won't damage us in return.

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I shall pray that you have NO understanding of what you have typed.

 

Yeah.  Too late for that prayer to work.  After I realized my degree would offer no decent employment prospects, I put myself through nursing school mostly by working as a float for a nursing staffing agency.  I worked in tons of hospitals and nursing homes.  Some were great.  Others not so great.  I never saw any outright cases of neglect or abuse in any of the facilities I worked.  I did hear of a few cases where one nurse or one CNA was fired for abuse, and unfortunately in both cases the victim was someone related to the person on staff.

 

People with NPD are extremely abusive, and as such, they are extremely likely to be abused when they are put in a situation where their victims care for them.  That dynamic is not one that their victim would want to occur, but what happens is the person with NPD can't help themselves.  They will do or say something that will trigger every horrible and vindictive bone in their victim's body, and it is more likely than not they will get abused back. Things that a not related nurse or CNA will shake off and label as "crazy" or slightly irritating behavior but will not take personally has the ability to set a former victim off into a spiral of abusive retaliation.  It's just human nature.  People with personality disorders are safer in the care of someone they have never had the opportunity to victimize.

 

 

Do you understand that people with NPD are abusers? I honestly feel that the emotional abuse of a NPD is worse than the physical and sexual abuse I've suffered at the hands of others.

 

This.

 

Nursing homes are not evil. I know they aren't perfect but all of my relatives, both well off and poor who have had to go into nursing care have had decent, safe experiences. Sometimes end of life care can not be done at home, even if the relationship is strong.

 

I am sorry that your mom died so recently. I am also sorry she had a bad nursing care experience. Still generalizing her nursing home to all nursing homes is not valid.

 

This.

 

 

ETA:  I was there for the deaths of many people.  Some of which the family never came to see them.  Every time that happened when it wasn't a dementia situation inevitably when they came to say goodbye the family would relate that the decedent was extremely abusive and they just couldn't deal with them. But to the nurses and CNA's who they'd never had the opportunity to victimize they were sweet old ladies who they enjoyed assisting.  NPD doesn't present the same way to relative strangers as it does to family.

 

ETA2:  I wouldn't put them in a nursing home in Colorado.  I worked for one of "the best" hospitals in the Denver metro area and I don't think I stayed six weeks.  Nurses and aides there routinely did things that would have made them lose their license in any other state in which I've worked.

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Which is why my children will all get the whole story when they're old enough to handle all the rated R details of the N's life and exactly what he's done to me and them. Yeah, that's why N earned no contact, and if I ever treat you all like that please get me to a psychiatrist and on meds quick because I can't think of anything but lunacy that would cause me to treat my children the way he has me and his grandchildren.

 

Otherwise, that's a great story and there is a good bit of truth in for normal people in the world.

   

 

Yeah, I remember sobbing when I was 8 because my grandparents chose to leave in a huff 3 days into a two-week visit right before my birthday and spring break when I was going to spend lots of time with them.  They spent the night at the airport terminal because dad wanted to wait 15 minutes until the movie he and my grandfather were watching finished before playing games rather than stopping immediately like she wanted.  

 

So, they told me some stories.  Like when she called the police and said that dad had kidnapped mom, and the police set up a roadblock.   Fortunately the police weren't born yesterday.  The truth really helped.  

 

Evil grandmother was kicked out a hospital at least once because no one was willing to treat her because she was so abusive.  She cycled through several people because people thought they'd taken abuse from patients before.  

 

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This is a silly thing to post, and really not helpful or respectful of the OP's situation or experience. Perhaps the characters should be changed such that the grandfather is one of the children of the young couple, instead.  The other child is the "favored" one (NPD's often have a favored child).  Then, you have the NPD parent scenario.  

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Whatever future care my "parents" may require will be my sister's job, not mine. I wash my hands of them. She's the "golden child" of my mother, and my father sent a vicious, hateful note in my daughters' Christmas box, informing me that he has ONE daughter now.

 

I'm done.

I feel this way about my MIL. Her three golden children need to be prepared to care for her. My husband is obviously a scapegoat who she parentified. He did his duty picking up after her emotionally and otherwise instead being allowed to be a child himself for years. Yeah, all done. It was always clear our kids were an afterthought or not even a thought, and she made it obvious. I feel no obligation to her at all.

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Our NPD switches up who the golden child is depending on who's easiest to manipulate at the time, and it's extra painful each time they fall for it.  It took me well over a decade to recognize it for what it was.  Over a decade to recognize and understand reality.  That's more than 10 years of vile manipulation convincing me I was insane.

Eff that!

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My NPD is my step-mother that raised me.  She preferred her own daughters over my siblings and I our whole childhood... in very abusive ways.  We've actually had to face the whole, "What if they get feeble and need medical care?".  Her daughters took care of it.  My family and I can't afford to help with her expenses so no one has asked us to.  She doesn't want to leave Texas, so, thankfully, no one has asked us if she can move in with us.  My husband and I have already discussed it.  The answer is an emphatic no.  Let her NPD golden child daughter do it.  I do feel sorry for the other sister that's having to deal with it, also, though. 

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Our NPD switches up who the golden child is depending on who's easiest to manipulate at the time, and it's extra painful each time they fall for it.  It took me well over a decade to recognize it for what it was.  Over a decade to recognize and understand reality.  That's more than 10 years of vile manipulation convincing me I was insane.

Eff that!

 

 

I went probably about 34 years before I realized how profoundly abnormal my upbringing was.  You know how if that's all you experience, that's normal to you? Yep.  I should shout out to WTM'ers, because this is where the lights began to come on re: the NPD.

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I went probably about 34 years before I realized how profoundly abnormal my upbringing was.  You know how if that's all you experience, that's normal to you? Yep.  I should shout out to WTM'ers, because this is where the lights began to come on re: the NPD.

 

I think I always knew but didn't want to face it.  Finally did at almost 40.  

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