Would you consider a college with no dorms (or meal plan)?

[Matryoshka]

So it seems that one of our State Universities has a well-regarded program in dd's area of interest (anthropology/archaeology); they do a lot of work in urban archaeology and Native American sites.  For one of our state universities, tuition is low (less than $12K - yes, I know that's a lot elsewhere, don't rub it in.  For here it's cheap). 

 

BUT... this place has no dorms, and no meal plans.  It's in the city, and rents are sky-high - the closest and most affordable neighborhood is super-dangerous with lots of gangs and shootings, so she'd need a car or pay for public transportation to commute from elsewhere in the city.  Technically, dd could commute from home, but it would be at least an hour each way (in car with no traffic), more with public transport, and she really does not want to live at home.  I'm thinking this could easily add up to more (perhaps way more) than what you'd usually pay for room/board at a regular uni, and at a regular uni, you wouldn't have the transportation costs or commute time.

 

I think this school typically attracts kids who already live in the city (grew up there), older students who already live by themselves, and some int'l students. 

 

If it even had just first-year dorms and a meal plan, I'd feel a lot better.  She's mulling over a university in Montreal that is like that.

[shawthorne44]

I'd consider one that didn't require first-year dorms and meal plans to be an advantage.  But, it sounds like the final cost is going to be quite expensive.  

[Penguin]

Any chance of finding a roommate? My son attends a school in a city with sky-high rents. So guess what? The dorm prices were sky-high, too. He lived there the first year w/no meal plan and there was no downside to the lack of a meal plan.

 

For sophomore year, he moved out of the dorm. His apartment with a roommate is way less than the dorm.

[Matryoshka]

I'd consider one that didn't require first-year dorms and meal plans to be an advantage.  But, it sounds like the final cost is going to be quite expensive.  

 

So you'd be fine with a dd just-turned-18yo moving to the city by herself, would probably need to find random roommates, and do all the shopping and meal planning and prep for herself as long as the costs could be kept down?

[Carol in Cal.]

I would want to develop a solid, tight plan with her.

I would help her look for an apartment in an area that I considered to be safe for walking around, and with a safe route to the college.  I would walk her to the grocery store, and make sure that she knew how to get to and from, and could judge how much she could carry, and could be safe doing so.  I would outfit her apartment with a tight list of kitchen and dining items so that she could cook, and with shelf stable food for periods of inclement weather.  And then I would smile and say, you can do it!  Because I would know that she could.  OR, if I couldn't develop that solid, tight plan, I would nix the whole idea.

[justasque]

Well breakfast would be pretty easy (cereal, oatmeal, that kind of thing).  Lunch could be easy too - sandwiches, fruit, yogurt, etc.  You would have the option of filling her freezer with homemade things if that's your style.  Handy appliances like a rice cooker (which can make much more than just rice - you can saute veggies in with the rice and put some fish in the steamer, for example), microwave, and toaster oven would come in handy.  And for a single person, strategic eating out can bring costs lower than they otherwise would be - for example, drink only water (soda or other drinks can easily add $2-$3 to a meal), order inexpensive things like soups, consider ready-meals from the supermarket, etc.

For me, it would be the housing that would be my main concern, not the meals.

[Matryoshka]

Any chance of finding a roommate? My son attends a school in a city with sky-high rents. So guess what? The dorm prices were sky-high, too. He lived there the first year w/no meal plan and there was no downside to the lack of a meal plan.

 

For sophomore year, he moved out of the dorm. His apartment with a roommate is way less than the dorm.

 

Well, there's no way to compare to a dorm at this uni, as it doesn't have one, but it looks like apartment rents are at least $1000/month with 2-3 roommates.    So, at least $3K for a 3-bedroom.  Living by herself would be way more; I was assuming she could find some kind of roommate situation.

 

That's $10,000 for the school year, but she'd probably have to pay the whole year lease, so that's $12,000, minimum.  Room and board combined at most unis I've looked at run $12-$14K.  How much does your ds spend on food for the year? 

 

AND that doesn't factor in transportation.  Can your ds get to his school by foot, or does he have transportation costs?  Student-discounted public transport passes are about $300/semester, but that limits you to apartments close to public transport lines.

 

I mean, I guess if the bedrooms were reasonably sized and other kids were willing, you could put 4 kids in a 2-bedroom; I guess that's one way to make it more affordable...  you share a room in a dorm, usually...  maybe I should ask the uni if their students typically share rooms in apts, or want to have their own rooms...  A 1-bedroom is more like $1500 and up.

[Penguin]

The thing that would bother me the most (in addition to the overall cost) would be the random roommate aspect. At least in a dorm you have the prospect of a swap if it is not a good match.

 

Leases make that trickier, and we found apartment hunting to be extremely stressful. Apartments are snapped up as soon as they come on the market. He is moving again this weekend, but it was not as stressful this time.(A) he is more experienced and (B) it is much easier to find a place in May than in August.

 

Summer is another thing to think about. Will you be stuck with the rent in the summer? How would that work out? My son goes to summer school, but if he didn't then I would not want to be paying for an empty place.

 

He managed feeding himself just fine. He is very frugal about his food budget, but he is in a Northern European city. I know from your previous posts that you are at least familiar with Germany, so I probably don't have to tell you that food can be very expensive.

 

We have no transportation costs. Walking or cycling gets him where he needs to be.

 

I wrote a lot, and much of it is probably not helpful. Overall, I will admit that we underestimated his COL.

 

He really has to live on a tight budget. But he loves loves loves his school and his city.

[shawthorne44]

So you'd be fine with a dd just-turned-18yo moving to the city by herself, would probably need to find random roommates, and do all the shopping and meal planning and prep for herself as long as the costs could be kept down?

 

Absolutely, if she wasn't able to shop and meal plan/prep for herself, then she isn't able to live away from home.  As for roommates, in a dorm they are truly random.  At least in an apartment she'd have some choice in roommates.  

 

The core reason I'd want my child to avoid the dorm isn't the cost but the misery.  The only people I've ever known in real life that liked dorm living did almost nothing academic their first year.  So, being constantly surrounded by lots of people was what they liked about it.  

 

Although, the dangerous area the OP describes sounds bad.  But, a dangerous neighborhood is a dangerous neighborhood whether you are 18 or 24.  It might be that the college the OP describes will be a lot more expensive than it first looked after factoring in a safe place to live. 

 

Although, there would be no way I'd be paying for an apartment for my child an hour away from where I lived.  It isn't ideal, but it isn't that unusual for people to commute that distance to work, particularly in a high COL area.   

[Penguin]

IF (big if) it was within my means, I would pay for my child to live away from home an hour away.

 

But if getting into a safe neighborhood equated with a long commute, I might not.

[G5052]

A friend of ours has a kid who is going to a school with no dorms in NYC.  The school provided a list of recommended places to stay, and there were several single-sex situations with kitchen privileges that cater to that school.  Their daughter is very happy with the one she chose.  She has a small bedroom with a lock to herself, and there's a resident caretaker.

 

Mine will likely attend a 4-year that is an hour away, but there are plenty of carpools and thus far they are fine with living at home.  We also have a number of contacts who rent out bedrooms during the week to kids who will help with household tasks for a few hours a week.  That school offers a reasonable meal plan though, and the assumption is that they usually go home for the weekend.

 

Just some ideas...

 

[MtnTeaching]

A friend of ours has a kid who is going to a school with no dorms in NYC.  The school provided a list of recommended places to stay, and there were several single-sex situations with kitchen privileges that cater to that school.  Their daughter is very happy with the one she chose.  She has a small bedroom with a lock to herself, and there's a resident caretaker.

 

Mine will likely attend a 4-year that is an hour away, but there are plenty of carpools and thus far they are fine with living at home.  We also have a number of contacts who rent out bedrooms during the week to kids who will help with household tasks for a few hours a week.  That school offers a reasonable meal plan though, and the assumption is that they usually go home for the weekend.

 

Just some ideas...

 

 

This was what I was wondering about.  I am assuming that the school has to have some kind of recommendations for living arrangements for their students.  Some kind of social board where they can find roommates.  I would be surprised if they did not.

 

A carpool would also be a very good idea.  At least for a year or two, your student could save some money, get used to the routine of the school, and most importantly, learn the area and meet people that she could room with.  A student can mature a LOT in a year or two.

[bugs]

Honestly, I would have difficulty with the no dorm situation.  I think it's better for a first year student to spend her time getting her academic bearings (most people I knew actually studied in the dorms) than her "survival" ones (shopping, cooking, paying a variety of bills, etc.).  A friend's daughter who tried to do the minimum meal plan her first quarter spent too much of her free time shopping and cooking food. It was stressful for this first year (although a dual enrollment graduate) college kid.

[Teachin'Mine]

Is this being considered only for the low cost of tuition?  If so, and it's not one your daughter really wants, I'd keep looking.  State universities (thinking SUNY) have just about any major and shouldn't cost much more than this (12K plus housing plus meals plus transport) with room and board included.  IIRC your daughter is a great student and should qualify for some merit aid?   So much happens on-campus at non-commuter schools, so there would be more reasons to want to be on-campus other than just cost and safety.

[Matryoshka]

Is this being considered only for the low cost of tuition?  If so, and it's not one your daughter really wants, I'd keep looking.  State universities (thinking SUNY) have just about any major and shouldn't cost much more than this (12K plus housing plus meals plus transport) with room and board included.  IIRC your daughter is a great student and should qualify for some merit aid?   So much happens on-campus at non-commuter schools, so there would be more reasons to want to be on-campus other than just cost and safety.

 

Oh, to be a resident of NY state!  The SUNY schools are Soooooo much cheaper than our state schools!  OUT-of-state SUNY tuition/R&B runs not much more than IN-state tuition at our schools.  We do have some SUNY schools on our list, but not sure if she really wants to go to them.  We haven't gotten to visit any yet.  This school IS a state university, and one of the lowest-cost ones (outside of lack of housing) in our state.

 

This student is a good student, but not stellar (her twin sister has higher stats at this point).  She had a bit of blip this year coming home.  She took two APs, but dropped out of the PAHS courses associated with them to self-study, so I can only hope she did well on them, and if she didn't, I have no class grades to back them up.  :scared:   The SAT2s she just took came back 'eh' - she wasn't feeling well the day of the test, and I know she doesn't test well when she feels sick, so I can only hope that was the problem (this is scaring me in relation to those APs).  She will probably take at least the Math one again in the fall.  Her first-take of the SAT came back with subtest scores all in the low 600's - above average, but it puts her at the 25% for most of the schools she puts at the top of her list - so probably no merit, or certainly not buckets.  She managed Commended on the PSAT, so I think she has higher (if not astronomical) scores in her, but she's got to deliver. She's retaking the SAT and taking the ACT for the first time in the next couple of weeks.  She says she's studying, but so far I've mostly seen the book next to her on the bed.  Other than that she's got A's and B's in her previous ps school work and the few DE's and one online class she took (and stuck with) this year.  So good, not Wowza.

 

We visited the state flagship last week.  She is underwhelmed.  Loved Smith, though (again, she's around 25% on SATs there).

 

I'd never even considered this campus (in Boston).  It was while we were visiting Wellesley (she didn't like it) that someone on the tour said UMass Boston had a great archaeology program (under Anthro).  That's just one source, but thought it might be worth a look after all, so I'm looking.  Dd is intrigued but not gung-ho at this point.  And it's looking more and more that it would be much more expensive than the tuition would suggest.  I think it would be more as a 'safety' as the stats there are lower and the acceptance rate much higher than most other places she's looking, but if we still found it unaffordable, and ironically perhaps unsafe, then not so much...

 

[Matryoshka]

This was what I was wondering about.  I am assuming that the school has to have some kind of recommendations for living arrangements for their students.  Some kind of social board where they can find roommates.  I would be surprised if they did not.

 

They do.  Most of the students live in the Scary Neighborhood.  Truly Terrifying, like there have been two shootings of unarmed bystanders in the news there just this last week, one a 7-yo boy.  She'd have to go further afield.  I should probably call their housing office and see what they have to say.

 

A carpool would also be a very good idea.  At least for a year or two, your student could save some money, get used to the routine of the school, and most importantly, learn the area and meet people that she could room with.  A student can mature a LOT in a year or two.

 

 

This kid wants outta here.  She'd love to move out now if she could...  And no one from here carpools to that school.  Most people who'd go to a state school from this area and commute would go to the one 10 minutes away (which of course does not even offer her major :glare: .  That one mostly is tech; she's very humanities).

[mathwonk]

When I was in college the meal plan seemed to be a major money maker for the university and a major source of complaints from the students.  Indeed when we finally got permission to live off campus senior year we all put money equal to the meal plan cost into a jar to buy food, and we never needed even a fraction of it to buy MUCH better food than we ever had  at school.  We joked that we could start a scholarship fund from that jar.

[Teachin'Mine]

I hope she has good test days as she obviously scored very nicely on the PSAT. 

 

Here's an article listing some state universities with the lowest cost for non-residents.  Maybe some of them have an archaeology major? 

 

http://www.bestcolleges.com/features/lowest-out-of-state-tuition/

 

You've probably already seen this ...  http://colleges.startclass.com/d/o/Archeology

 

Sadly Sweet Briar rates well and offered good merit aid, but it's no longer an option.  Bridgewater came up on another search for archaeology programs in Mass.  They offer housing for the first two years I think - maybe a safety?

 

Just with the bit of searching I've done, I can see why you're having a hard time coming up with good and affordable options.  Maybe two years local and then transfer or have her establish residence elsewhere?   I'm sure there are lots of other options and it's just a matter of finding them.  But I'd have to change my response above and say that I would consider it even without the on-campus housing.  I would probably budget for higher housing costs to avoid the worst areas.

 

.

 

 

What about UMass Amherst?  She could take archaeology courses at Smith.

[Matryoshka]

I hope she has good test days as she obviously scored very nicely on the PSAT. 

 

Here's an article listing some state universities with the lowest cost for non-residents.  Maybe some of them have an archaeology major? 

 

http://www.bestcolleges.com/features/lowest-out-of-state-tuition/

 

You've probably already seen this ...  http://colleges.startclass.com/d/o/Archeology

 

Sadly Sweet Briar rates well and offered good merit aid, but it's no longer an option.  Bridgewater came up on another search for archaeology programs in Mass.  They offer housing for the first two years I think - maybe a safety?

 

Just with the bit of searching I've done, I can see why you're having a hard time coming up with good and affordable options.  Maybe two years local and then transfer or have her establish residence elsewhere?   I'm sure there are lots of other options and it's just a matter of finding them.  But I'd have to change my response above and say that I would consider it even without the on-campus housing.  I would probably budget for higher housing costs to avoid the worst areas.

 

No, I had not seen that archaeology ranking list - that's extremely helpful, thank you!!!  Funny, I'd been trying to talk her into SUNY Potsdam for a while; it's right there above UMass Boston on the list (she strenuously objected to Potsdam due to the middle-of-nowhere issue).  I think BU and NYU are some of her top choices, but they are notorious for giving too little aid, even if she got in.  Dickinson was on her list, but it's also kind of remote, and I think it's fallen off...

 

What about UMass Amherst?  She could take archaeology courses at Smith.

 

 

UMass Amherst is our state flagship she is so underwhelmed with (my alma mater, btw).  And both my db and SIL got degrees in Anthropology there.  Good school.  Not flashy.  She thought it had too many massive concrete buildings.  It will stay on her list no matter what, as it may end up being Plan B or C.  But she'd much rather go to Smith and take extra classes at UMass instead. ;)

 

I was just going to ask about CUNY Hunter, as it's on that list and in NYC, which she'd like, but it's almost like UMass Boston (even costs about the same, proving my point about in-state here being the same as out-of-state in NY...so not fair!) - sounds like there's not really any student housing to speak of.  Niche says there's a huge waiting list, impossible to get in if your out-of-state, and it's a 30-min commute from school on the subway.  You think I'm nervous about an apt. in Boston - NYC, yikes!!

 

Sadly Sweet Briar rates well and offered good merit aid, but it's no longer an option.  Bridgewater came up on another search for archaeology programs in Mass.  They offer housing for the first two years I think - maybe a safety?

 

Wow, thanks for pointing out Bridgewater State!  Hadn't been on my radar - the other State U's I looked at (they're like a rung below the UMass campuses, I think?) didn't offer any of those majors - Bridgewater has 3 different Anthro/Archaeology degrees!  This could be a great safety - it's also inexpensive with a high admit rate.  And there's a train right from the campus into Boston, so maybe she wouldn't feel so stuck in the 'burbs.   She wouldn't even need a car to get there.

 

She's actually thinking of taking a course at Salem State this summer that she found out about, a 1-week, 3-credit course in Nautical Archaeology of all things.  (she'd love to do underwater archaeology).  But weirdly, other than that summer class taught by a visiting guy (and cryptically labeled "Topics in American History" if you look for it in their catalog), it doesn't appear Salem State even has an Anthropology, no less archaeology dept.

[Matryoshka]

What is the reason for wanting city over town or suburb?

 

She seems to want to be someplace hip and happening.  Suburbs, typically, are none of these. ;)

 

Some college towns are, some aren't.  She did like Northampton.  She did not like Wellesley (it is a snooty, sleepy place - the town, I mean).

 

[Teachin'Mine]

If she could just somehow change her perception of UMass Amherst it sounds almost ideal.  With the five college consortium she could take archaeology classes at Amherst too which is very close to the campus.  If she liked Smith, Mt Holyoke is also available and Hampshire.  Amherst is often rated very highly as a college town and should offer a lot of what she's looking for as far as a hip and happening place.

 

I'm glad that the archaeology major site was helpful!   There's a lot of liberal arts colleges rated in the lower 90s there which may offer merit aid - Wooster, Cornell College, etc.but these may also be "in the middle of nowhere".  As their admissions rates are higher, I think the key would be for her to express lots of interest.  Maybe she could start by contacting them and requesting info on their archaeology department.  If she really likes Smith, she should let them know that too and do her best to score well on the tests and have a strong GPA first semester next year.  It sounds like she needs a goal to work towards to help motivate herself to finish strong.

[Teachin'Mine]

If she really wants underwater archaeology, she may want to look at East Carolina.  http://www.ecu.edu/cs-cas/maritime/ But she may also want to take Hoggirl's thread into consideration about pursuing one great program and then changing direction.  Not sure if East Carolina offers the variety of options UMass Amherst does.

 

I've tried twice and can't get the link to work.  Just google EC University and maritime studies.  They mention that they are ranked number 1 in the country in graduating professional archaeologists.   COA looks to be about 30K for OOS and it's in Greenville.  Looks like the underwater archaeology program is for graduate studies, but they do offer anthropology as undergrad and may have opportunities in archaeology beyond that.  

[Matryoshka]

If she could just somehow change her perception of UMass Amherst it sounds almost ideal.  With the five college consortium she could take archaeology classes at Amherst too which is very close to the campus.  If she liked Smith, Mt Holyoke is also available and Hampshire.  Amherst is often rated very highly as a college town and should offer a lot of what she's looking for as far as a hip and happening place.

 

You are singing my song!  I've thought for ages that would be ideal for her.  Unfortunately, my having gone there seems to be a strike against it.  :glare:   I was really hoping that visiting there (we visited both UMass Amherst and Smith last Friday) would change her perception, but I think it may have made it worse!  I even brought them out to lunch (dragged her twin along :) in Amherst to try to sell it.  Reaction: Meh.  I loved Amherst!  Sigh.

 

Smith and Northampton are soooo much cooler, dont'cha know.  Smith is "test optional", but she's still going to have to have something on her transcript, so I really hope she got at least a 4 on that AP Bio.  That's a tough school to get into.  She'll have to do some really interesting things, get some killer recommendations, and do great in her DE classes next fall if she has even any hope of Smith.  And then we'd have to afford it, but like most of the big endowment schools, it seems they're very generous with 'need'-based aid, so there could be some hope.  Maybe.

 

 

I'm glad that the archaeology major site was helpful!   There's a lot of liberal arts colleges rated in the lower 90s there which may offer merit aid - Wooster, Cornell College, etc.but these may also be "in the middle of nowhere".  As their admissions rates are higher, I think the key would be for her to express lots of interest.  Maybe she could start by contacting them and requesting info on their archaeology department.  If she really likes Smith, she should let them know that too and do her best to score well on the tests and have a strong GPA first semester next year.  It sounds like she needs a goal to work towards to help motivate herself to finish strong.

 

Yeah, Ohio and Iowa are out for being Ohio and Iowa in her eyes.  I cannot convince her anything hip is going on there (even though I've heard great things about Oberlin, too...)

 

She has Penn State on her list, but it's not in a city - seems suburby.  Any idea if that area would be hip and happening enough? 

[Matryoshka]

If she really wants underwater archaeology, she may want to look at East Carolina.  http://www.ecu.edu/cs-cas/maritime/ But she may also want to take Hoggirl's thread into consideration about pursuing one great program and then changing direction.  Not sure if East Carolina offers the variety of options UMass Amherst does.

 

I've tried twice and can't get the link to work.  Just google EC University and maritime studies.  They mention that they are ranked number 1 in the country in graduating professional archaeologists.   COA looks to be about 30K for OOS and it's in Greenville.  Looks like the underwater archaeology program is for graduate studies, but they do offer anthropology as undergrad and may have opportunities in archaeology beyond that.  

 

Hey, thanks!  She should probably work on getting Scuba certified if she's serious about that!  It does sound like a Graduate concentration, but she's probably going to have to go to Grad school no matter what she does, so I'll show her that.  But then necessity of Grad school for most of what she's interested in also means I'd really like her not to be in huge undergrad debt.

 

She should probably stay a bit more general undergrad?  She's also thought of going into some kind of museum work/ artifact restoration type thing if she wasn't able to get into field archaeology.  I think she should really take the Natuical Archaeology course this summer (I mean, what are the chances?) and then maybe she can see more how she likes it.

[Teachin'Mine]

If she'll qualify for need based aid, Smith should be very generous as should Oberlin and others.  For now, use Smith as a motivator for her as your ideas of what she needs to do are spot on.  No idea what Penn State's location is like, but I know it's expensive even for in-state students and isn't known to be too generous with aid as far as I know.  UMass Amherst may be more appealing to her in September when all the students are there.  Maybe you could make it the only stop instead of seeing Smith again that same day.  :tongue_smilie:   Or maybe include a tour of Amherst and their archaeology department specifically ...  She needs to see beyond the concrete buildings and see what's offered in her areas of interest.

[raptor_dad]

OK. Here is my unduly harsh take. No! Dorchester is a slum. Roxbury is no better. She could take the red line south and maybe find something a ways out from transit in Quincy or Braintree; that is completely soulless but cheap. She could take the red line north into Cambridge but that is spendy... likewise if she transfers onto the orange line out to the delightful student ghettos in JP/Roslindale or the green line for Allston... In all these cases you are spending a huge premium for housing and the commute time is 45min+ so not that much less than commuting from home. UMassB is a commuter campus... if DD wants a happening campus that is not going to work. I don't see a reason for this to work either financially or culturally... Sorry :(

 

[Luckymama]

She has Penn State on her list, but it's not in a city - seems suburby. Any idea if that area would be hip and happening enough?

:lol:

 

Uh, no.

[chiguirre]

Yeah, I have to say that if she thought Amherst was meh, Happy Valley (the nickname for State College, PA--and really, they couldn't think of a less generic name?!?) will not make the cut.

[Matryoshka]

OK. Here is my unduly harsh take. No! Dorchester is a slum. Roxbury is no better. She could take the red line south and maybe find something a ways out from transit in Quincy or Braintree; that is completely soulless but cheap. She could take the red line north into Cambridge but that is spendy... likewise if she transfers onto the orange line out to the delightful student ghettos in JP/Roslindale or the green line for Allston... In all these cases you are spending a huge premium for housing and the commute time is 45min+ so not that much less than commuting from home. UMassB is a commuter campus... if DD wants a happening campus that is not going to work. I don't see a reason for this to work either financially or culturally... Sorry :(

 

Yeah, this was pretty much my initial reaction - you're pretty much spot-on!  The only place I could even think of that might end up being okay would be somewhere around Davis Sq. in Somerville - straight up the Red Line.  But that's far and still probably $$$, and probably no other students from that school in that area.

 

[Matryoshka]

:lol:

 

Uh, no.

 

 

Yeah, I have to say that if she thought Amherst was meh, Happy Valley (the nickname for State College, PA--and really, they couldn't think of a less generic name?!?) will not make the cut.

 

:lol:  Well, guess that saves us a campus trip! :lol:

[Gwen in VA]

One thing to remind your dd as she looks at colleges is that mostly students don't leave campus. I went to school in Boston/Cambridge, and honestly beyond Christmas shopping and one trip to Symphony Hall, a few trips to Harvard Square, and a few trips to the Science Museum, I didn't leave campus! (I spent my freshman year at Smith, and other than getting the occasional ice cream downtown, I stayed on campus there too -- and I know of no one at either school who was really "involved" in the local scene, whatever it might be!)

 

My two oldest went to school in the country -- a "city" of 10,000 people surrounded by cows and mountains. They went hiking twice each, one enjoyed taking walks past cow pastures, and they were involved in a local church, but otherwise they basically stayed on campus despite their gorgeous surroundings. The campus had plenty happening to keep them busy!

 

Visiting campuses can be misleading. Colleges have concerts, movies, activities, and lots of other stuff happening on campus so the campus, not the city/country surrounding it,becomes the center of life. The whole city/country thing matters a LOT less than you think it will!

[chiguirre]

I went to school in West Philly (so, not the worst slum, but a fairly dangerous area). The most dangerous aspect of Penn was walking up to Chestnut St. to take the blue line or walking down past Pine to the green line. On campus and the immediately adjacent streets were okay. I did go out in the city, more so as an upper classman than a freshman.

 

If she's really interested in UMass Boston, I'd visit the campus and stay all day into the night and walk to the subway lines to see how they are and how much either the BPD or campus security patrol. Can you look at the crime rates for the campus itself? How about the adjacent area? I mean I know Dorchester and Roxbury are the bad parts of Boston and I never went there when I lived in the area 25 years ago (in very meh Stoneham). But, maybe UMass is a bit like Penn and there are pockets that are okay even though the area as a whole is a slum?

 

I'd also have a serious conversation about having to live at home if she chooses UMass Boston. It's pointless to live in the city and have a 30 minute commute on the T to get to school versus an hour drive (less if it's not during rush hour??? I don't remember exactly how far Salem is.) She may end up scratching UMass Boston off her list, but that's okay.

[Matryoshka]

I went to school in West Philly (so, not the worst slum, but a fairly dangerous area). The most dangerous aspect of Penn was walking up to Chestnut St. to take the blue line or walking down past Pine to the green line. On campus and the immediately adjacent streets were okay. I did go out in the city, more so as an upper classman than a freshman.

 

If she's really interested in UMass Boston, I'd visit the campus and stay all day into the night and walk to the subway lines to see how they are and how much either the BPD or campus security patrol. Can you look at the crime rates for the campus itself? How about the adjacent area? I mean I know Dorchester and Roxbury are the bad parts of Boston and I never went there when I lived in the area 25 years ago (in very meh Stoneham). But, maybe UMass is a bit like Penn and there are pockets that are okay even though the area as a whole is a slum?

 

UMass Boston is out on a peninsula, so surrounded on 3 sides by water, and it's pretty much the only thing there.  On the 4th side is Rte. 93, and the scary dangerous neighborhoods are on the other side of the highway, you can't just walk into them.  I'm pretty sure it's fairly well insulated from the crime-ridden neighborhoods; the crime map (helpfully linked from the school's site!) shows the peninsula where the school itself is as safe.  But there's also... nothing else there.  Just the school and some grass, and a few (pricey) apartment complexes which I'm starting to figure is where a bunch of the students actually live (but they're not dorms).  Doesn't look like any shopping, even a regular grocery store or strip mall. There's a shuttle to the T stop.  It's not really 'in' the city, like, say, Boston University is (up in a much safer part). We should visit, but I'm thinking if she applies at all it should be a backup, and if she went it would have to be the best of the backups.  Not sure about 'safety', that would be ironic. ;)

 

I'd also have a serious conversation about having to live at home if she chooses UMass Boston. It's pointless to live in the city and have a 30 minute commute on the T to get to school versus an hour drive (less if it's not during rush hour??? I don't remember exactly how far Salem is.) She may end up scratching UMass Boston off her list, but that's okay.

 

We don't live that near Salem; that's actually just under an hour from us (it's just where the cool class is at).  UMass Boston according to Google Maps is 44 minutes from us by car, it's true, but that's without any traffic - during rush hour, that could be easily 1.5 - 2 hours, as she'd have to not just get to Boston, but all the way through it to the other side. 

 

[Bluegoat]

I would look into it more.  In a situation like that, there will be a lot of kids looking for places to stay and I suspect there will be some way that is facilitated, either formally through a housing office, or maybe informally online.

 

I find it hard to judge the "dangerous area" aspect.  I lived in a dangerous atmosphere when I was at school for a few years.  I really loved it, it was a great neighbourhood in many ways.  There were quite a lot of stundents in it too.

[LibraryLover]

I'd say that doesn't have to be her fallback school. Her scores are good. What about Clark? Clark is excellent and they tend towards generosity, I've heard.

 

If she loved Smith, has she considered Simmons?

[Matryoshka]

I'd say that doesn't have to be her fallback school. Her scores are good. What about Clark? Clark is excellent and they tend towards generosity, I've heard.

 

I have heard so many good things about Clark! Unfortunately, it doesn't offer any of the majors (or even a single minor) that she's interested in.  :( No anthropology, archaeology, or linguistics. Barely any foreign languages, even.  I know she could change her mind, but with their list of majors, I can't even figure out what would be in her wheelhouse there...  I know I've looked back there a few different times, somehow hoping I've missed something! ;)

 

If she loved Smith, has she considered Simmons?

 

Yeah, that doesn't really have majors that fit her interests either.  It's a bit of a problem with many of the smaller schools.  For safeties, neither UMass Lowell nor any of the state universities I'd looked at had anything, which was why I decided to explore UMass Boston and Bridgewater State now that I realize they actually do have programs in those areas...

[katilac]

I would not, because I think that living on campus equals more time spent on campus, and that more time spent on campus generally means more time spent with study groups, clubs, and other activities that enhance college success. 

 

Of course, I realize many students do commute and have great success, but I just think it is easier and more likely if you are on campus. Students who live at home and commute generally do so for financial reasons only, and often seem more willing to spend that extra time on campus, even when it's difficult. It's much more tempting to go ahead and leave campus when classes are done when you are headed to your own apartment, with your own TV and refrigerator! 

 

ime, this holds true even when the apartment is quite close to campus - as a group, those students tend to be less involved beyond the classroom, particularly if they live off campus right from the start. Less so if they move off campus as upper classmen. 

 

I think someone else mentioned that living off campus adds another layer of adjustment to that first year, and I agree with that. Dorms also tend to have more safety features in place than apartments do. 

 

Schools that have available housing for all four years get extra points on my spreadsheet. I won't necessarily require my kids to live on campus all four years, but I would like them to have the option.