Kid accepted to all 8 Ivy league schools chooses Alabama

[Jenny in Florida]

I feel like I should say, too, that if either of my kids had gotten his or her heart set on applying to a highly selective/prestigious college, I would have done my utmost to support that attempt. But I would have thrown myself at it because it was what my student wanted, not because I had a burning desire to put the bumper sticker on my car.

 

I have nothing against the Ivies. I totally get how the environment can be exciting and wonderful for the right student. I just think it's crazy that so many families are focusing in so narrowly on those schools and spending decades pursuing admission to one of them when there are so many other valid options.

 

Remember, if the research holds true, the student whose story kicked off this thread should do just fine, better than fine, because the very fact that applied to and was admitted to all of those elite schools means he has the ability and ambition to succeed. 

[Hoggirl]

(somewhat tongue in cheek) - I think the colleges provide nice amenities so the kids will not want to leave!! It's a trap! Kids may wind up taking longer to finish because they have it so cushy. When they stay longer, they continue to pay tuition. I absolutely loved my college, but the dorms were crap, the food was crap, and there were no fancy rec centers or gathering places. People may have loved being there, but they wanted to get out so they could start working and live better. Now with colleges so "nice" and the job market so tough, what incentive is there to get out?!

[Teachin'Mine]

But I didn't see anyone saying that "any college" is fine or that all college options are equal. What many people said is that they are concerned about the price that children and families are paying in money and stress and all kinds of other ways in the frantic pursuit of admission to a specific kind of college, just because it's that kind of college. 

 

We have young adults who are, apparently, killing themselves because they either don't get into the "right" college or feel that they aren't succeeding once they are admitted.

 

We have kids giving up childhoods and pounding Starbucks in order to stay awake long enough to complete schoolwork they may not even understand and participate in extracurricular they may not even like because their families have been told those things will get them into said colleges.

 

There's a huge, huge gap between accepting that as "normal" and shrugging and saying that any old college will do. There's an enormous range of good and great and great-for-that-student colleges in between those two extremes. Most of us -- even those of us who do value education and chose to homeschool because it was the right choice for our families -- live in that in-between land. Our kids are happy and academically challenged and enjoying their college years and going on to careers they choose. 

 

Making a thoughtful choice that is different does not have to mean accepting "less."

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. 

 

Finances have to be considered.  Better for the student to attend the college they can afford for 4 or 5 years than ignore affordability and end up having to drop out before graduation. 

 

As has been mentioned in this thread, there's another thread on the high school board which addresses cost issues, so I was including that in my reply here.  It is hard to separate the two.   Some don't understand how anyone could choose to spend 30K or more for a private high school.  If money wasn't a concern, I'd have considered that option.  But that is not at all my reality.  Some of the top private schools are amazing in the breath and depth of courses offered and in the prep students receive for rigorous college courses.  Saying that doesn't take anything away from what dd did do in high school.  Saying one is great or possibly better doesn't make her experience any less.  Kwim?  

 

I love following what you son and daughter have accomplished and how they take advantage of opportunities.  You've done a great job in your role as guidance counselor!  

 

Another thought.  While there are some lower ranked colleges which hold their students and classes to very high standards, the top colleges are top for a reason.  The classes are hard.  Students who are used to straight As will likely have an adjustment period.  Our role as guidance counselor doesn't end the minute they get their high school diploma.  We need to keep the message that grades alone do not define them.  They need to know that the goal is not perfectionism but learning.  And once they've chosen where to go, they need our support and validation.  Really sad thread on CC recently written by a senior about how his father just couldn't accept that he didn't get into a particular college.  The son got into his number one choice, but Dad couldn't let it go.  Sad. 

 

 

[swimmermom3]

But I didn't see anyone saying that "any college" is fine or that all college options are equal. What many people said is that they are concerned about the price that children and families are paying in money and stress and all kinds of other ways in the frantic pursuit of admission to a specific kind of college, just because it's that kind of college. 

 

We have young adults who are, apparently, killing themselves because they either don't get into the "right" college or feel that they aren't succeeding once they are admitted.

 

We have kids giving up childhoods and pounding Starbucks in order to stay awake long enough to complete schoolwork they may not even understand and participate in extracurriculars they may not even like because their families have been told those things will get them into said colleges.

 

There's a huge, huge gap between accepting that as "normal" and shrugging and saying that any old college will do. There's an enormous range of good and great and great-for-that-student colleges in between those two extremes. Most of us -- even those of us who do value education and chose to homeschool because it was the right choice for our families -- live in that in-between land. Our kids are happy and academically challenged and enjoying their college years and going on to careers they choose. 

 

Making a thoughtful choice that is different does not have to mean accepting "less."

 

The one thing I truly dislike about these threads is the underlying current that name brand will always be the superior experience, every single blinking thread. To trot out commentary that it's ironic that homeschoolers for whom B&M options weren't good enough, but who'll just accept any old college, is downright insulting. (Not directing this part at you, Jenny.) The unspoken implication is that "good" parents will supply that "perfect" college experience; if you can't or won't, then welcome to the crappy parent club.

 

I have not worked my backside off the past eight, going on nine years, to just randomly drop my son in "any old college." We'll make, as Jenny in Florida put it, "a thoughtful choice."  For example, ds wanted to go to a particular (more elite, I guess) school. He discovered that the economics department there was ranked only 2-3 positions higher than one of our state schools. The price tag difference between the two is over $100,000!  Sorry, but I don't see the value of "the name" in this case.

 

I love my son, but I also love my dh. He has worked hard for us, easily 60 hours a week, for over 20 years so that I can be at home with the kids and they can have some lovely extras. I may drive a car not built in this century and the great room furniture has covers, but our kids have lacked for little in the way of comfort, health, safety, and joy. When my youngest graduates from high school, dh will be 59 years old. I have no desire to lose him because we opted for a name brand college and the stress that the extra debt entails as that time of life. My hope is for a good LAC that meets ds's academic needs and our budget. I'd do and have done a lot to get there, but I won't sacrifice our future as a family to do so.

 

ETA: This is where we are at and is no reflection on anyone else's choices.

[Teachin'Mine]

Heck if the bumper sticker is the goal for anyone, they can get that easily enough.  Aside from the academics, our goal was affordable choices. 

[Teachin'Mine]

The one thing I truly dislike about these threads is the underlying current that name brand will always be the superior experience, every single blinking thread. To trot out commentary that it's ironic that homeschoolers for whom B&M options weren't good enough, but who'll just accept any old college, is downright insulting. (Not directing this part at you, Jenny.) The unspoken implication is that "good" parents will supply that "perfect" college experience; if you can't or won't, then welcome to the crappy parent club.

 

I have not worked my backside off the past eight, going on nine years, to just randomly drop my son in "any old college." We'll make, as Jenny in Florida put it, "a thoughtful choice."  For example, ds wanted to go to a particular (more elite, I guess) school. He discovered that the economics department there was ranked only 2-3 positions higher than one of our state schools. The price tag difference between the two is over $100,000!  Sorry, but I don't see the value of "the name" in this case.

 

I love my son, but I also love my dh. He has worked hard for us, easily 60 hours a week, for over 20 years so that I can be at home with the kids and they can have some lovely extras. I may drive a car not built in this century and the great room furniture has covers, but our kids have lacked for little in the way of comfort, health, safety, and joy. When my youngest graduates from high school, dh will be 59 years old. I have no desire to lose him because we opted for a name brand college and the stress that the extra debt entails as that time of life. My hope is for a good LAC that meets ds's academic needs and our budget. I'd do and have done a lot to get there, but I won't sacrifice our future as a family to do so.

 

I'm so sorry, but you inferred what was never implied, written or otherwise.

 

[Dmmetler]

I had to laugh at a couple of the college tours we went on. Some schools showed us really nice, new or newly renovated dorms (and I can't really blame them for wanting to show off their nicest rooms or the rooms that reflect the direction they are heading). At Virginia Tech, the rooms were more basic. The guide made a comment about the rooms not having AC. But that they set up two fans to provide a good ventilation flow. Then he shrugged and said, "I mean, we are an engineering school. You should be able to set up a couple fans."

 

That may have been one of the best sells of the tour.

Carnegie Mellon made a similar statement years ago, except it ended with "besides, you won't be in the dorm much anyway". Which was true.

[MBM]

My son just wants a quiet room preferably with no insects. :D

When you expand the college rosters, you inevitably have to taken lower quality students, which then necessitates more support services to make sure these students have a reasonable chance of graduating.

 

I'm sorry, but this doesn't pass the sniff test.  While some universities are enrolling more students than in the past, others aren't.  All have seen dramatic rises in tuition.  How much has Harvard's tuition risen in the last 30 years?  How many more students do they enroll?  My Big State University's enrollment has been pretty constant for the last 20 years, but tuition has risen substantially.

 

Perhaps (perhaps!) high school students aren't as prepared as they were.  But numerically, there are many colleges that are enrolling basically the same numbers of students as when their tuition was much lower.

[Halcyon]

As a graduate of Yale married to a graduate of Columbia, I can say a few things with reasonable assurance:

 

1) Going to a tippy top college doesn't guarantee a tippy top income.

2) Going to a tippy top college doesn't guarantee happiness

3) Going to a non-tippy top college may mean a tippy top income.

4) Going to a non-tippy top college may lead to great happiness.

5) Going to a tippy top college can absolutely open doors, but doesn't mean they stay open.

 

Nothing matter, IMO, except the individual and what a good life means to him or her. Is the purpose of education to lead one to a job with a higher income? To a greater appreciation of the world, the arts, culture and history? To understand the meaning of life? I left a job in investment banking to become an acupuncturist. I saw what other top earners in the industry (particularly the women) had to sacrifice to earn millions. And I thought to myself "Is this it?" Is this really why I went to this amazing school, was exposed to such amazing thinkers? To earn money? Really? 

 

Were most of the other analysts in the firm Ivy League graduates? Yes. Of the ones who were there the longest, were most of them Ivy League grads? Nope. They were the ones who were willing to sacrifice almost everything for money. It takes a certain kind of person to make those kinds of sacrifices. 

 

The most important thing a child can learn (and it takes most far longer than just their childhood to learn this) is "what makes me happy?" "What are the qualities of a good life, to me?" Some, like my brother (who attended Williams on a so-so academic record--he was a recruited athlete) might make the decision that they want to earn money, above almost all else. And they (as my brother did) will do just that. They will hire nannies to watch their children, who then graduate to a $40,000 a year first grade class (oh yes, really). The children will attend after-school enrichment programs, the parents will sign off on overnight trips to Utah, and the children will, more than likely, go on to attend a top-notch school. And so what if they do. So what if they do.

 

Some, like my husband and I, will decide that the good life consists of more than simply accumulating until you die. And you know what? My education at Yale, and his at Columbia, allowed us to see that. By exposing us to so very much of the world, including the privilege of the world, we could make that decision from a certain vantage point. And we have no regrets. Others, who might never have had the opportunity to see what the so-called "good life" is might very well romanticize it (money! cars! vacations! houses!) without realizing how much is lost in its pursuit.

 

A good education is good in its own right, no matter where you obtain it. The more important considerations are self-knowledge, self-direction and an understanding of how one wants to live in the world. It seems this young man has all three. 

 

[swimmermom3]

I'm sorry, but this doesn't pass the sniff test.  While some universities are enrolling more students than in the past, others aren't.  All have seen dramatic rises in tuition.  How much has Harvard's tuition risen in the last 30 years?  How many more students do they enroll?  My Big State University's enrollment has been pretty constant for the last 20 years, but tuition has risen substantially.

 

Perhaps (perhaps!) high school students aren't as prepared as they were.  But numerically, there are many colleges that are enrolling basically the same numbers of students as when their tuition was much lower.

 

The quote you used belonged to a college professor, not me. That's why they were in quotes with an attribution.

 

I can see taking exception with the comment that with enrolling more students, they are taking lesser quality ones that need more support. However, I wonder if at the root of this is really the issue of college "readiness."

 

One set of numbers that I saw cited nearly 60% of kids who make it to college are not academically ready and require some form of remediation:

 

"Figure 1 shows the extent of the college readiness problem by portraying the gap between eligibility for college and readiness to do college-level work. Students in public colleges and universities attend one of three types of postsecondary institutions: highly selective four-year institutions, somewhat selective four-year institutions, and nonselective or open-access two-year colleges. The readiness gap is nominal in the most selective universities because their admissions criteria screen out most students who are underprepared. The gap is huge, however, in the other two sectors of higher education, which serve between 80% and 90% of undergraduates in public institutions. "

 

 

If there is any truth to this support, and I suspect there is given the comments of some of our professors and teachers, taking care of this situation could certainly boost a college's cost. I am not giving the colleges an out; I am just trying to explore the issue. My favorite pet is the overly expensive administration. It's problematic in the business world, no reason why it wouldn't be in education.

If there is any truth to this support, and I suspect there is given the comments of some of our professors and teachers, taking care of this situation could certainly boost a college's cost. I am not giving the colleges an out; I am just trying to explore the issue. My favorite pet is the overly expensive administration. It's problematic in the business world, no reason why it wouldn't be in education.

 

If this were true, wouldn't Harvard and the Ivies have the least amount of tuition increase?

[Frances]

As a graduate of Yale married to a graduate from Columbia, I can say a few things with reasonable assurance:

 

1) Going to a tippy top college doesn't guarantee a tippy top income.

2) Going to a tippy top college doesn't guarantee happiness

3) Going to a non-tippy top college may mean a tippy top income.

4) Going to a non-tippy top college may lead to great happiness.

5) Going to a tippy top college can absolutely open doors, but doesn't mean they stay open.

 

Nothing matter, IMO, except the individual and what a good life means to him or her. Is the purpose of education to lead one to a job with a higher income? To a greater appreciation of the world, the arts, culture and history? To understand the meaning of life? I left a job in investment banking to become an acupuncturist. I saw what other top earners in the industry (particularly the women) had to sacrifice to earn millions. And I thought to myself "Is this it?" Is this really why I went to this amazing school, was exposed to such amazing thinkers? To earn money? Really?

 

Were most of the other analysts in the firm Ivy League graduates? Yes. Of the ones who were there the longest, were most of them Ivy League grads? Nope. They were the ones who were willing to sacrifice almost everything for money. It takes a certain kind of person to make those kinds of sacrifices.

 

The most important thing a child can learn (and it takes most far longer than just their childhood to learn this) is "what makes me happy?" "What are the qualities of a good life, to me?" Some, like my brother (who attended Williams on a so-so academic record--he was a recruited athlete) might make the decision that they want to earn money, above almost all else. And they (as my brother did) will do just that. They will hire nannies to watch their children, who then graduate to a $40,000 a year first grade class (oh yes, really). The children will attend after-school enrichment programs, the parents will sign off on overnight trips to Utah, and the children will, more than likely, go on to attend a top-notch school. And so what if they do. So what if they do.

 

Some, like my husband and I, will decide that the good life consists of more than simply accumulating until you die. And you know what? My education at Yale, and his at Columbia, allowed us to see that. By exposing us to so very much of the world, including the privilege of the world, we could make that decision from a certain vantage point. And we have no regrets. Others, who might never have had the opportunity to see what the so-called "good life" is might very well romanticize it (money! cars! vacations! houses!) without realizing how much is lost in its pursuit.

 

A good education is good in its own right, no matter where you obtain it. The more important considerations are self-knowledge, self-direction and an understanding of how one wants to live in the world. It seems this young man has all three.

My husband and I also made a conscious decision to step off the fast track. We have three advanced STEM degrees between us, one from an Ivy Leaugue schools, but value free time to travel, volunteer, and immerse ourselves in hobbies far more than money and high powered careers. Our education has given us the ability to live comfortably and securely while working less than full time, so it was definitely worth the investment of time and money. But seeing friends and family members who make more money than us but work much more and are under much greater stress is a regular reminder of why we chose the path we did. We certainly have no regrets.

 

Related to this, the NY Times recently reported on a study that found that the happiest lawyers were those in the lowest paying positions such as legal aid and public defenders. They also drank less than their high-powered high earning peers and despite earning significantly less money were equally satisfied with their lives. The study also did not find increased happiness with promotions such as making partner.

[SeaConquest]

As a graduate of Yale married to a graduate from Columbia, I can say a few things with reasonable assurance:

 

1) Going to a tippy top college doesn't guarantee a tippy top income.

2) Going to a tippy top college doesn't guarantee happiness

3) Going to a non-tippy top college may mean a tippy top income.

4) Going to a non-tippy top college may lead to great happiness.

5) Going to a tippy top college can absolutely open doors, but doesn't mean they stay open.

 

Nothing matter, IMO, except the individual and what a good life means to him or her. Is the purpose of education to lead one to a job with a higher income? To a greater appreciation of the world, the arts, culture and history? To understand the meaning of life? I left a job in investment banking to become an acupuncturist. I saw what other top earners in the industry (particularly the women) had to sacrifice to earn millions. And I thought to myself "Is this it?" Is this really why I went to this amazing school, was exposed to such amazing thinkers? To earn money? Really? 

 

Were most of the other analysts in the firm Ivy League graduates? Yes. Of the ones who were there the longest, were most of them Ivy League grads? Nope. They were the ones who were willing to sacrifice almost everything for money. It takes a certain kind of person to make those kinds of sacrifices. 

 

The most important thing a child can learn (and it takes most far longer than just their childhood to learn this) is "what makes me happy?" "What are the qualities of a good life, to me?" Some, like my brother (who attended Williams on a so-so academic record--he was a recruited athlete) might make the decision that they want to earn money, above almost all else. And they (as my brother did) will do just that. They will hire nannies to watch their children, who then graduate to a $40,000 a year first grade class (oh yes, really). The children will attend after-school enrichment programs, the parents will sign off on overnight trips to Utah, and the children will, more than likely, go on to attend a top-notch school. And so what if they do. So what if they do.

 

Some, like my husband and I, will decide that the good life consists of more than simply accumulating until you die. And you know what? My education at Yale, and his at Columbia, allowed us to see that. By exposing us to so very much of the world, including the privilege of the world, we could make that decision from a certain vantage point. And we have no regrets. Others, who might never have had the opportunity to see what the so-called "good life" is might very well romanticize it (money! cars! vacations! houses!) without realizing how much is lost in its pursuit.

 

A good education is good in its own right, no matter where you obtain it. The more important considerations are self-knowledge, self-direction and an understanding of how one wants to live in the world. It seems this young man has all three. 

 

I cannot like this enough. Thank you.

[creekland]

My husband and I also made a conscious decision to step off the fast track. We have three advanced STEM degrees between us, one from an Ivy Leaugue schools, but value free time to travel, volunteer, and immerse ourselves in hobbies far more than money and high powered careers. Our education has given us the ability to live comfortably and securely while working less than full time, so it was definitely worth the investment of time and money. But seeing friends and family members who make more money than us but work much more and are under much greater stress is a regular reminder of why we chose the path we did. We certainly have no regrets.

 

Related to this, the NY Times recently reported on a study that found that the happiest lawyers were those in the lowest paying positions such as legal aid and public defenders. They also drank less than their high-powered high earning peers and despite earning significantly less money were equally satisfied with their lives. The study also did not find increased happiness with promotions such as making partner.

 

I suspect I'd get along really well IRL with many of my Hive peers.  ;)

[8filltheheart]

Last night our oldest ds, who graduated from PodunkU with his chemE degree in 2011, told us he was put on the corporate promotable list. That means if he desires, then he will be groomed for high level management. What makes people be selected for the corporate list? Not the name on the diploma. It is job performance.

 

So while name on the diploma might matter for some companies for some fields, it is far from a universal truth. His chemE degree was earned from a small instate tech university that was very low cost. He did not need to attend a top 10 powerhouse engineering university leaving us with high levels of debt. (I guess I should mention that he works for a top global chemical company. He has already earned his black belt and is an EIT (engineer in training for his PE.)

[MBM]

Frank Bruni's book Where You Go Is Not Who You'll Be: An Antidote to the College Admissions Mania is worth reading. A quote from Amazon:

 

Bruni, a bestselling author and a columnist for the New York Times, shows that the Ivy League has no monopoly on corner offices, governors' mansions, or the most prestigious academic and scientific grants. Through statistics, surveys, and the stories of hugely successful people who didn't attend the most exclusive schools, he demonstrates that many kinds of colleges-large public universities, tiny hideaways in the hinterlands-serve as ideal springboards. And he illuminates how to make the most of them. What matters in the end are a student's efforts in and out of the classroom, not the gleam of his or her diploma.

 

What I think is dangerous about only pursuing the Ivies and other top schools is that it can prevent a child from going through the messy process of discovering their genuine interests. Some kids follow a strict prescribed path that they don't like or that they just follow blindly thinking that their Ivy education will set them up for the life they want. It doesn't work that way because they have to discover what they want and then do the work to make it happen.

 

Having said that, I do know people from Ivies and other top schools who did exactly what they wanted and are content and thriving.

[8filltheheart]

Did he grad from an ABET/EAC accredited Engineering Program, or will he use experience to satisfy the PE reqts?

 

Folks going the no accredited route need to be aware that they need at least 8 years of experience in order to sit the PE exam, while a person graduating from an accredited pgm only needs at least 4 years. And of course, the option for the person who has no degree is at least 12 years exp. So, saving the cost of the dorm by commuting to regional unaccredited state U may have $$ implications later.

 

It is an ABET accredited university.  He took the FE right before he graduated and scored very high.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I think maybe people have varying ideas of what classifies as PodunkU...

 

[8filltheheart]

I think maybe people have varying ideas of what classifies as PodunkU...

 

It is a small university which is only ranked regionally, not nationally, with a very high acceptance rate.  ;)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

So, definitely not Podunk U.

 

This was my reaction as well. :)

[8filltheheart]

This was my reaction as well. :)

Just curious as to what acceptance rate might determine your classification as Podunk U? ;)

[katilac]

Just curious as to what acceptance rate might determine your classification as Podunk U? ;)

 

I'm curious as well! I would think a small school that is only regionally ranked, with a high acceptance rate, would be considered Podunk U by most people - certainly where a high stats student is concerned. 

 

Edited to add that there are plenty of regionally ranked universities with 70% - 80% percent acceptance rates, and ACT spreads of 20-25 and thereabouts. 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Just curious as to what acceptance rate might determine your classification as Podunk U? ;)

 

Nearing 100% 

 

As well as no accreditation or having departments that the school is known for regionally as being better than the rest of the school...

 

I thought it meant absolute bottom rung.  No scores needed, etc. What are those schools called?

 

Clearly, I'm a complete newbie and still have LOTS to learn. I'm not sure what all the rankings mean...

 

For example, months ago someone lamented her child settling for a less than U. I looked up the school - it was ranked in the top 50 internationally. :svengo:

 

If that's settling, we're living in a van down by the river...

 

I have a feeling your son went to what seems normal and typical to me, not Podunk.  ;)

 

It's all so relative!

 

(ETA: Some research I did in college took me to some pretty rural, downtrodden areas. I think that forever skewed my views on education. I wasn't studying education, but the impressions related to it were lasting...)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Maybe it's the term, too. It comes with previous connotations in my mind, which could be adding to my confusion. ;)

[katilac]

Nearing 100% 

 

As well as no accreditation or having departments that the school is known for regionally as being better than the rest of the school...

 

I thought it meant absolute bottom rung.  No scores needed, etc. What are those schools called?

 

Clearly, I'm a complete newbie and still have LOTS to learn. I'm not sure what all the rankings mean...

 

For example, months ago someone lamented their child settling for a less than U. I looked up the school - it was ranked in the top 50 internationally. :svengo:

 

If that's settling, we're living in a van down by the river...

 

I have a feeling your son went to what seems normal and typical to me, not Podunk.  ;)

 

It's all so relative!

 

(ETA: Some research I did in college took me to some pretty rural, downtrodden areas. I think that forever skewed my views on education. I wasn't studying education, but the impressions related to it were still quite lasting...)

 

I was editing my prior post while you were writing, so I'll copy it here as well: 

 

I'm curious as well! I would think a small school that is only regionally ranked, with a high acceptance rate, would be considered Podunk U by most people - certainly where a high stats student is concerned. 

 

Edited to add that there are plenty of regionally ranked universities with 70% - 80% percent acceptance rates, and ACT spreads of 20-25 and thereabouts. 

 

Keep in mind, those are schools with a number rank, not Rank Not Published. I've definitely seen number ranked schools that hit 90% acceptance. I think there are about 500 or so regionally ranked universities - and LOTS of ranked schools overall. 

 

The ranking most people have in mind is national universities ranking - that would be the one with Princeton, Harvard, Yale, taking the top few spots. That's about 250 schools. 

 

Then you also have national liberal arts, regional universities, and regional liberal arts. Regional universities number ranks about 500 schools total, so add everything together and you are talking about quite a few schools that get ranked. 

 

It's definitely relative, and some people take it to the extreme in both directions. Generally, though, a university that is only ranked regionally is considered Podunk U for a good stats student (and often for a middling stats student).  

 

I think the term for absolute bottom rung schools is, uh, bottom rung! 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Maybe it's the term, too. It comes with previous connotations in my mind, which could be adding to my confusion. ;)

Maybe. Let's just say that people driven by stats would not be impressed bc the acceptance rate is very high and the test scores are very avg. The engineering dept, however, is well respected by industry. But, simply based on what most people look at when selecting universities, they would say it was an under match for a strong student. PodunkU?? Irrelevant, really. The point is that rankings give very little real info.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I was editing my prior post while you were writing, so I'll copy it here as well:

I'm curious as well! I would think a small school that is only regionally ranked, with a high acceptance rate, would be considered Podunk U by most people - certainly where a high stats student is concerned.

Edited to add that there are plenty of regionally ranked universities with 70% - 80% percent acceptance rates, and ACT spreads of 20-25 and thereabouts.

Keep in mind, those are schools with a number rank, not Rank Not Published. I've definitely seen number ranked schools that hit 90% acceptance. I think there are about 500 or so regionally ranked universities - and LOTS of ranked schools overall.

The ranking most people have in mind is national universities ranking - that would be the one with Princeton, Harvard, Yale, taking the top few spots. That's about 250 schools.

Then you also have national liberal arts, regional universities, and regional liberal arts. Regional universities number ranks about 500 schools total, so add everything together and you are talking about quite a few schools that get ranked.

It's definitely relative, and some people take it to the extreme in both directions. Generally, though, a university that is only ranked regionally is considered Podunk U for a good stats student (and often for a middling stats student).

I think the term for absolute bottom rung schools is, uh, bottom rung!

I realize that I'm conflating comments of several posters in my head. But it feels like there is a vein in this thread of suggesting that a student who was accepted at Ivies but chose to attend the top honors program at a state school should be pitied because he had to settle. (IE the state college was an unworthy choice driven only by financial concerns.)

 

But then when someone mentions the term Podunk U folks say that couldn't apply to a regionally ranked school but only non ranked or non accredited.

 

There is such a vast number of schools between Ivy and unranked. (Personally I'm not that convinced that the Ivies live up to the hype. They definitely beat a school with 1000 avg SAT scores. But I'm not sold on the idea that the students at HYP are having deeper conversations than those at schools in the top 100-150 schools. Within some areas certainly. But judging from some of the stupidity that comes out from those schools there are fools in Ivies too. (Trigger warnings needed for Ovid is a recent example.))

 

There are 150+ schools with ABET accredited Chem E programs.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

But then when someone mentions the term Podunk U folks say that couldn't apply to a regionally ranked school but only non ranked or non accredited.

 

 

 

For the record, I'm just trying to understand, not making judgements on what term can and can't be used.  Different terms mean different things in different locales. I'm truly just trying to understand.

 

I've misunderstood things on this board before and made decisions I regret based on those misunderstandings. I'm just trying to avoid doing that in the future.  :) 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

For the record, I'm just trying to understand, not making judgements on what term can and can't be used.  Different terms mean different things in different locales. I'm truly just trying to understand.

 

I've misunderstood things on this board before and made decisions I regret based on those misunderstandings. I'm just trying to avoid doing that in the future.  :)

 

That makes sense.

 

I have just found the general current of some of the thread hard to follow.  UA is in the top 100 of nationally ranked universities.  

 

Podunk U can mean different things to different people.  To some people it could mean anything that isn't highly selective.  

 

I had someone tell me to my face that the school where I did my grad degree was just a diploma mill.  Now I'm the first to admit that my MS Ed - like just about every other MS Ed - was not arduous.  On the other hand, there were great profs in the history and German department and history and MA degrees in other disciplines did require a thesis.  This would probably count as Podunk U to many people.  It's largely a commuter school.  The city is ok, but not a major city.  On the other hand, it does have a few ABET accredited programs (Civil Eng, Mech Eng, Elect Eng and Computer Sci).  My German professor went from that Podunk U to the Northeast.  She has subsequently taught at Brown.  She didn't get smarter when Brown hired her.  

[creekland]

Podunk U can mean different things to different people.  To some people it could mean anything that isn't highly selective.  

  

 

:iagree:  and the fact that it doesn't have "a" meaning is what can cause problems.

 

There are 4599 degree granting institutions out there (2870 4 year places).  

 

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=84

 

I'm not really sure how anyone defines Podunk U as a school outside the Top 10/20/50/100/1000, etc.

 

Odds alone put 1435 four year places in the Top 50%.

 

There are differences in experiences in each school just as there are for each of us where we live, but success (defined as supporting yourself in a field of your choice) can come from so many places.

 

"A" specific job might need "a" name on a degree (oldest wouldn't have gotten his job without graduating from his college as an alumni hired him), but there are other jobs and other places out there with different hiring personnel. 

 

MOST people IME are intelligent enough to rate people on the job by how well they do their job (there will always be exceptions where other superficial things matter more, but they are exceptions), so getting that first job (or into grad/prof school) is important.

 

This is why I feel it's important to see where recent grads from _____ U have gone.  If they are successful, there's no reason to doubt that others can be too.  If they are not getting into places or getting interviews at places where one wants to go/work, that ought to be a huge red flag.

 

Then it comes down to what each individual does with their opportunities at college.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

 And so what if they do. So what if they do.

 

 

Halcyon,

 

I just wanted to thank you for this. Ever since I read your post this phrase has become a mantra of sorts. I've been surprised at how many times in two days it's popped into my mind regarding various issues.

 

Thank you.

[creekland]

Out of curiosity, I asked middle son where his summer internship (at Stanford) peers are doing their undergrad.  This is an elite Brain & Cognitive Studies paid internship where roughly 240 applied and 13 were accepted.  Obviously, my guy is from U Rochester... so his is the top one listed since it's the best school of the lot.   :lol:

 

U Rochester

U Wisconsin - Madison

U Michigan

Yale

Brown

UCSD (2)

UC Berkeley

Wellesley

Claremont-McKenna

 

He doesn't know where the other three are from yet.  They are just getting to know each other at the moment (he's not at Stanford until mid-June).

 

I'd say there's a fair representation of plenty of good schools.  Other years I would expect to see similar caliber, albeit, probably some different names.  Definitely note only 2 of those schools are official "Ivy" schools.  Four (five students) are state schools.

[creekland]

Add WUSTL to the list.  Only two more unknowns for this year at this point.

[FaithManor]

For the record, the college west of here that accepts any warm body to fill a seat - i sometimes think my cat could get accepted - and is widely known to have no discernable academic standards with a bizarrely high turn over rate amongst the faculty combined with high unemployment amongst it's grads because employers know it is awful but students are wooed because it is dirt cheap is known locally as "Totally Crappy State U" by those that are concerned with not wasting educational dollars and time.

 

Podunk doesn't get used much and is more likely to refer to location - out in the middle of no place. So LOL Cedarville U is "podunk" because it is literally in the middle of a giant corn field and half hour south from a Walmart...or at least it used to be. Haven't checked in a long time.

[G5052]

Yes, sounds like a smart kid.

 

When I was in research I had a summer student who was at University of Kansas.  His goal was an Ivy League medical school, so he didn't want to take on debt at that point.  His parents intended to do as much as they could, but couldn't do Ivy League all the way.

 

And he did indeed end up at Harvard Medical School followed by Mayo Clinic.  He's one of the top specialists in his field, and I've seen him interviewed multiple times on TV.

 

My oldest is not at that level, but still got into some tough schools on early decision. He chose the local community college where I teach because it feeds into a top-25 school in his field and has an excellent honors program. No loans will be required. People have been pounding us right and left for that decision, but he was over the moon when I let him go with his heart.  

 

And yes, that community college accepts nearly nearly everyone.  You have to have truly bottom level placement/SAT/ACT exams or have a conviction for a violent crime to be rejected.  And yet the graduates from that community college go to many nationally-ranked colleges.  Not Ivy League, but "name brand" for sure.  I have a former student who went to UVA for law school, and another who did her PhD at Georgetown.

 

Things aren't always what they seem!

[creekland]

Add Stanford itself to my guy's list.  One of the students is an undergrad there already working on the project.  My guess is that student will have a lead role of some sort.

 

This was my guy's Plan B to do at U Rochester.  The researcher (prof) he works with would have gladly kept him there (paid) over the summer, but suggested it would be better for his education/career/experience to go out and see what's happening at peer institutions (peer meaning doing similar studies).  She also provided the suggestions about where to apply and gave him his reference letter.  Many of those profs know each other, so I think they tend to be "sharing talent" as well as exposing the students to more.

 

One school left to uncover.

[creekland]

Well, the last school is Yale meaning two students come from there.

 

Three students come from official "Ivy" schools - only two schools represented.  Ten students do not.  Five students come from four state schools.  Eight students come from private schools.

 

Still, none of the schools on the list surprise me and one could easily interchange other peer names (state and private) other years and it wouldn't surprise me either.  What they need is a good Brain/Cognitive studies program (though I believe he told me one student was majoring in math/cs and another in psych, so there's a little diversity there too).

 

ETA the whole list here:

 

U Rochester

U Wisconsin - Madison

U Michigan

Yale (2)

Brown

UCSD (2)

UC Berkeley

Wellesley

Claremont-McKenna

WUSTL

Stanford 

[Bluegoat]

Merit aid for the Ivies? Every kid there is stellar, and you could substitute in an equal number who applied and were rejected and are just as stellar.

 

Merit aid exists to attract stellar kids to the not-so-prestigious schools. And honors programs exist to create a match for the stellar kids within those schools.

 

I think its interesting to look at the system that you see in countries where university education is fully or more significantly publicly financed than in the US.  I notice two things - in many of them, there isn't the same emphasis of universities having better or worse rankings - often, all of them are considered to be well worth going to.  The other is, when there is an elite institution, it often really is catering to a really small population of students.  It still isn't like most good students have the opportunity to go there.

[Hoggirl]

Well, the last school is Yale meaning two students come from there.

 

Three students come from official "Ivy" schools - only two schools represented. Ten students do not. Five students come from four state schools. Eight students come from private schools.

 

Still, none of the schools on the list surprise me and one could easily interchange other peer names (state and private) other years and it wouldn't surprise me either. What they need is a good Brain/Cognitive studies program (though I believe he told me one student was majoring in math/cs and another in psych, so there's a little diversity there too).

 

ETA the whole list here:

U Rochester

U Wisconsin - Madison

U Michigan

Yale (2)

Brown

UCSD (2)

UC Berkeley

Wellesley

Claremont-McKenna

WUSTL

Stanford

I know I'm gonna get tomatoes thrown for this, but since much discussion occurs on this board about rankings and their validity, I'm just going to point out that the lowest ranked school on this list is #47.

 

I am fully aware that Berkeley, UCSD, Wisconsin, and Michigan are "state schools," but not all state schools are created equally, and these are all ranked among the top for state schools.

[Bluegoat]

What I actually think is the the false dichotomy is that only schools like Stanford lead to successful careers with financially stable outcomes. Kids can have a stress-free childhood which provides solid academic outcomes with the necessary qualifications for 100s of universities (Including top schools). People can and do attend Podunk U and still have great careers. Careers that have them living a life like the people in the articles? Not as likely (but not impossible, either.)

 

But the trade off is not poverty vs cut-throat high powered job. The trade off is more likely your avg suburban middle class life style.

 

And, yes, I would rather my kids actually have a childhood and attend Podunk U then be stressed to the point of committing suicide over some idolized outcome.

 

Or - they could not attend university at all, and have a perfectly good life.

 

I can't tell you how many people I know who got a university degree and then realized - even if they loved what they learned -  that university didn't give them much access to the kind of work they would enjoy, so they ended up getting a diploma in a trade or just doing something completely different. 

[FaithManor]

I know I'm gonna get tomatoes thrown for this, but since much discussion occurs on this board about rankings and their validity, I'm just going to point out that the lowest ranked school on this list is #47.

 

I am fully aware that Berkeley, UCSD, Wisconsin, and Michigan are "state schools," but not all state schools are created equally, and these are all ranked among the top for state schools.

Mother of a second Wolverine here...and yes, not all state schools are created equal! :D

[creekland]

I know I'm gonna get tomatoes thrown for this, but since much discussion occurs on this board about rankings and their validity, I'm just going to point out that the lowest ranked school on this list is #47.

 

I am fully aware that Berkeley, UCSD, Wisconsin, and Michigan are "state schools," but not all state schools are created equally, and these are all ranked among the top for state schools.

 

It's also important to realize that most schools - esp lower ranked schools - do not have Brain & Cognitive Studies (or a version thereof) as majors.  This is a specialty niche major that pretty much only some of the top research places (worldwide) are working with.

 

There ARE smaller schools with it.  We investigated some.  Their departments aren't nearly of the same caliber.

 

If we were looking at a Marine Science summer internship, I can pretty much guarantee youngest's school would be represented any given year, but their "overall" ranking isn't in the Top 100.

 

Know your field when looking at colleges.

 

Know your desires too.  My oldest son had NO desire for research.  He still had no problem getting a job upon graduation even though his college isn't ranked in the Top 100 either.

[FaithManor]

It's also important to realize that most schools - esp lower ranked schools - do not have Brain & Cognitive Studies (or a version thereof) as majors.  This is a specialty niche major that pretty much only some of the top research places (worldwide) are working with.

 

There ARE smaller schools with it.  We investigated some.  Their departments aren't nearly of the same caliber.

 

If we were looking at a Marine Science summer internship, I can pretty much guarantee youngest's school would be represented any given year, but their "overall" ranking isn't in the Top 100.

 

Know your field when looking at colleges.

 

Know your desires too.  My oldest son had NO desire for research.  He still had no problem getting a job upon graduation even though his college isn't ranked in the Top 100 either.

I agree so much with this. Middle boy wants to work in Great Lakes Conservation and U of MI is the only top 100 school that has a conservation center, yet no boat on the lakes full time. MTU - ranked about 120 depending on the ranking company - and U of Wisconsin at Milwaukee are two of the best, and Milwaukee has four boats out there full time, a newly renovated and world class Great Lakes research center on the shore, and is the only university in the states with a boat full time, year round on the water. That has made our college search for him very different from that of the other two.

[Hoggirl]

Know your field when looking at colleges.

 

 

But this goes back to my other post about the problem of changing majors if one chooses a college based on anticipated degree! Ha ha!

 

Not trying to pick on you Creek! ;) I should have quoted your entire post as your point about not all schools offering that area is very valid.

[creekland]

But this goes back to my other post about the problem of changing majors if one chooses a college based on anticipated degree! Ha ha!

 

Not trying to pick on you Creek! ;) I should have quoted your entire post as your point about not all schools offering that area is very valid.

 

We eliminated TAMUG (Texas AMU - Galveston) and U Hawaii - Manoa for this reason.  I knew if my guy ended up wanting to change majors, neither college would work well for him.  Eckerd is still strong in all the Biological Sciences - something I thought he would change into.  I didn't anticipate Theater/Acting, but I'm ok with it.  Fortunately, they have it and it's "good enough" there for our purposes and what he wants to do later in life.

 

There is a bundle of things to think about when selecting colleges IME.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

For my oldest, he has a dual goal of doing a computer science degree and flying carrier aviation.  Flight has been a dream since he was very small.  With that in mind, his college search centers around schools with Navy ROTC programs and a couple service academies.  That is a list of about 150 schools.  But he can only list 5 schools on the NROTC application.  He may apply to more than that as part of plan C and plan D, which involve attending a school with NROTC and being a midshipman in a non-scholarship status and applying for scholarships that are 3 or 2 year scholarships.  Plan D is for schools without NROTC that have his degree program and might be affordable with hopes of OCS after graduation.

 

 

[*LC]

I wonder if the Ivies were his choice or whether it was something he was pushed into trying because he was such a stellar candidate on paper? Memphis (and that includes the suburbs) tends to get very little positive press in the media, and the schools have had a hard time, so I can see a guidance counselor pushing him for that, and perhaps overstating the possibilities of financial aid/scholarships, only for reality to strike later.

 

I had some similar pushes when I was in high school as a disabled high-stats candidate-for schools that expressed interest due to test scores, but honestly, weren't good fits for me in my desired major. But they appealed to the guidance office's goal to have a long list of prestigious schools that their students had been accepted to/were attending.  In my case, my parents said "No"-pointing out that there was more than Ivy on the walls and a prestigious name to college.

I read he planned to apply to state colleges in the area (doesn't say exactly which ones), but his counselors & parents encouraged him to apply to more. Personally, I think he made the right choice for the right reasons in deciding what school to attend. I don't feel sorry for him. However, I "regret" all the money (and time) he put into applying to those schools that "everyone" says are more affordable for the middle class just to find out they were not more affordable form him. In the article I read, it mentioned 13 schools where he was accepted, not counting Alabama. It cost more than 700 in application fees to apply to nine of those, whose application fee I found on a chart, So, it probably cost him more than $1000 to apply to all those schools. Plus, he had to pay for CSS profiles and to send scores, etc. It seems like a lot to spend for something that wasn't his dream. (I have no problem with spending X for a child to apply to a school that his/her dream school or the best in their field. However, that wasn't the case here. In a different article, he basically says he doesn't regret it, because it will be neat to put on his tombstone. I hope he has better things to put on his tombstone. However, he will have a great truth for the ice-breaker game, 2 truths and a lie.

 

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/local-news/germantown-collierville/houston-high-student-accepted-to-all-8-ivy-league-schools_12890740

 

 

 

Two reasons - not necessarily both for the same family/students:

 

1) The actual money offered is not known until after application.  Net price calculators are not always accurate.

 

2) Some just want to know if they could have gotten in.   They'd never know if they didn't try.  They may even be hoping for extra money to show up from somewhere - hoping - but when it doesn't, they go back to their realistic best option.

 

Net price calculators weren't accurate for us. In this family's case, it sounds like sister graduating college was going to make a big difference. Someone mentioned that the Harvard expects families making over 100,000 to contribute 10 percent to the student's expenses. In playing with Harvard's NPC, assuming no assets at all for the family, I see that the family's contribution of 10 percent of income is from the gross wages, not net or take home pay. In using different incomes, it looks like 1 or 2 kids in school makes 1,000 to 3,000 difference in parent contribution until you get an income of 175,000, then going from 2 to 1 kids makes about a 10,000 a year difference. The parental contribution is more than 15 percent of the gross income. It just goes up from there until the calculator says you probably won't get aid around  250,000 for 1 kid and 310,000 for 2 kids. Harvard expects all student to contribute 4,600 a year, which is almost exactly what they estimate personal expenses, books, and travel to cost. 

 

 

Names on diplomas can very easily matter getting that first job or into various grad/prof schools.  This is why I always suggest folks ask where recent grads in _____ major have gone.  College A is not equal to College B.  Around here Penn St or Va Tech grads would easily get bonus points for new hire engineers.  Other schools?  Not so much.  Some schools wouldn't even get a look.  Shift locations and the preferred schools of choice would also change.

 

 

I also feel that the interest in Ivy schools may be regional. My kid had higher scores and similar # ap (when DE at a 4-year school was added) than the student in the article, and she never looked at Ivy schools. (DE hurt her GPA, but met other goals.) The number 1 kid in her class had basically the same everything as the kid in the article, and he did not apply to any Ivy schools. I don't know he played music, but he played sports. He is going to our  top-ranked state school. No. 3 with similar numbers, but 1 B in an AP class, only applied to an in-state flagship. In that class, one student went to a top 20 Ivy, and one went to a top 10 school as a recruited athlete. None from the next year went to an Ivy. One went to a top 10 school and 3 to a top 20 private school that isn't too far away. 

The private middle and high schools annual tuition fees excluding extras are around this range.

A private high school that we pass by recently and I just check the tuition out of curiosity was $36k annual tuition before extra fees.

Another private k-12 school we visited because we were attending an event hosted there had an annual trip to Europe fully paid by participating kids parents. I didn't check the tuition for that school.

 

ETA:

30k annual tuition for 9-12th

I think the private schools around me are cheaper, and the grads tend to go the same places as the public school kids. However, the in-city private schools cost close to what you said. In looking at one's college list from last year, 21 went to in-state flagships and 23 went to Ivy schools, all but represented. Nine are going to an in-state pvt, and one is going to a regional in-state. Another 26 are going OOS state schools; these include higher and lower ranked schools than our state schools. All are national-ranked universities within the top 150; two are going to the same school my daughter attends. There are probably around 30-35 that are going to private schools or liberal arts schools. There is at least 1 going to a regional university. One is going to a military academy. There are probably 5-10 schools I have no clue about, and I didn't look up -- these are mainly included in the pvt schools or liberal arts schools. 

 

One thing that parents are paying for in the private schools around here at least is the amazing college counseling.  One of the schools my son looked at has a college counseling office of 6 full time employees for a class of about 75 kids. Contrast that with my middle ds's public school: 3 full time counselors for a school of about 1400 kids.  And 99% of them are college bound.  Now that I shepherded one home schooled high schooler through the process, and coached another who was in school, I get why people are willing to pay big bucks just to be spared that job.   

 

There isn't a lot of hand-holding by the public school's guidance counselors. You meet once to talk about college. They ask you where you are looking and to make sure you have a safety school. However, we never sought out any advice or guidance, so they may be available if you want/need help. 

 

Even in the world of medicine, my son was told that it does matter where you go to undergrad.  I know that is not consistent with conventional wisdom, but the doctors who told him this are all top in their fields and said the name on their diploma opened doors early in their careers that would not have been opened otherwise and they continue to benefit from the name on their diplomas even today. 

 

A neighbor in the healthcare field was told the opposite by the doctors she works with for her senior, who is interested in medicine. The student, who is a National Merit Scholar with perfect standardized scores, picked a top 100 OOS public school over a top 20 OOS pvt school (which cost a bit less) and another top 30 OOS public school (which cost about $4,000 more.) 

 

Creekland's personal short points to "keep it real" would probably include:

 

 

 

5)  In spite of their high sticker prices, sometimes private schools can be the least costly option.  Some can be worth a try if their NPC looks promising.

 

6)  Many state schools are good options for in state students.  They are worth a look.

 

 

8)  Having a good, solid foundation going in is never a waste.

 

9)  While some kids party too much and study too little, many others, esp mature others, enjoy their time while getting both a terrific education and some wonderful experiences they are unlikely to ever get again in their lives due to work/life needs.

 

 

 

Not disagreeing with you. Simply adding, a reminder that NPC don't work well for all financial situations. Plus, some OOS schools can be good deals also. My neighbor's senior will be paying less at the OOS public than she would at our in-state schools, which are considered inexpensive for good students. The same happened with my daughter. Of the 10 seniors in my neighborhood, 6 are going to OOS flagship universities -- I only know numbers on 2 of these & they did get into our state flagship(s). 3 are going to in-state regional universities. 1 is going to a OOS pvt school ranked in the top 40. I don't know if our neighborhood is just weird this year, but usually most kids from our school stay in-state Last year, 60 percent of the class went to in-state schools with about 20 percent at the big nationally-ranked public schools. I do know the number 3 out of the top 4 students from last year are all going to state schools. Haven't heard about this year. 

[creekland]

For my oldest, he has a dual goal of doing a computer science degree and flying carrier aviation.  Flight has been a dream since he was very small.  With that in mind, his college search centers around schools with Navy ROTC programs and a couple service academies.  That is a list of about 150 schools.  But he can only list 5 schools on the NROTC application.  He may apply to more than that as part of plan C and plan D, which involve attending a school with NROTC and being a midshipman in a non-scholarship status and applying for scholarships that are 3 or 2 year scholarships.  Plan D is for schools without NROTC that have his degree program and might be affordable with hopes of OCS after graduation.

 

Hokie, hokie, hokie, hi... oh, sorry, I digress, did I actually type that or just think it?   :lol:

 

 

I also feel that the interest in Ivy schools may be regional.  

 

:iagree:   It's rare that we have a student interested in an Ivy other than Cornell even when they have the stats for it (ag and all things plant are big with Cornell).

 

I believe this year's NMF is heading to Messiah.  Last year we had two, one went to Gettysburg and the other to Cornell (for Botany/Environmental studies).  The year before went to Wake Forest (though got accepted to Stanford - money and perks led to choosing Wake over U Miami and Vanderbilt - those all topped Stanford again, due to money and perks).  The year before went to Wheaton (IL).  Before that it had been a while since we had a NMF.  The last I recall went to Albright, but I don't think she stayed there.  I heard rumors.

 

The top ranked school on our college acceptance list this year is probably Carnegie Mellon. I'm not sure any others except Penn St and Pitt are in the Top 100.  Maybe.  I'd have to look more closely.

[Jenny in Florida]

I know I'm gonna get tomatoes thrown for this, but since much discussion occurs on this board about rankings and their validity, I'm just going to point out that the lowest ranked school on this list is #47.

 

I am fully aware that Berkeley, UCSD, Wisconsin, and Michigan are "state schools," but not all state schools are created equally, and these are all ranked among the top for state schools.

 

No tomatoes, but I'm wondering what rankings you're using?

 

Every time  look at this kind of thing, I'm struck by the fact that there seem to be about as many "rankings" as there are colleges. So, when you say that a given school is "ranked #47," what does that mean? Who is ranking? What list are you looking at?

 

Edited to add: For example, I hit Google with the phrase "college rankings." The first link that came up was US News & World Report. I plugged my son's not-especially selective (acceptance rate just above 50%), medium-sized LAC--which few people have heard of and which is most often confused with the campus of the state university in the same city -- into the search box, and the results tell me that his school is ranked #24 among regional universities in the south. Similarly, my daughter's even smaller LAC, with an acceptance rate of over 90%, is apparently ranked #49 on the same list.

 

But I feel pretty confident that those aren't the rankings everyone gets so concerned about.