Kid accepted to all 8 Ivy league schools chooses Alabama

[8filltheheart]

I'm pretty sure that Cynthia is looking at USNWR.  Most rankings are for grad schools and not UG.

 

I also noticed that most of the schools were highly ranked schools, but that really does not mean anything in terms of such a small sample.  Ds, as a freshman (and most REUs do not accept freshman) was originally waitlisted before he was rejected from an REU which included participating in several weeks of research at CERN in Switzerland.  Considering how many students apply and only 10 were accepted (I think they had 5 or 10 on the waitlist), UA was obviously not a strike against him.  I don't think his being on the waitlist was any reflection on school in general.  I think it really just reflected his personal accomplishments.

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm pretty sure that Cynthia is looking at USNWR.  Most rankings are for grad schools and not UG.

 

I also noticed that most of the schools were highly ranked schools, but that really does not mean anything in terms of such a small sample.  Ds, as a freshman (and most REUs do not accept freshman) was originally waitlisted before he was rejected from an REU which included participating in several weeks of research at CERN in Switzerland.  Considering how many students apply and only 10 were accepted (I think they had 5 or 10 on the waitlist), UA was obviously not a strike against him.  I don't think his being on the waitlist was any reflection on school in general.  I think it really just reflected his personal accomplishments.

 

I must have been editing/adding to my post at the same time. 

 

The thing is that even US News & World has multiple lists, so you can pick how narrowly you choose to interpret results.

 

Edited to add: Because I'm stuck at my computer but not actually busy, I decided to play with this a little more.

 

Some of the bigger names in performing arts schools make it clear that freshmen and sophomores aren't likely to get much, if any, time on the mainstage. And even after that, competition for roles is intense, and many students won't be involved in more than one production a semester. My son felt strongly that he wanted a smaller school where he would get personal attention and training and would have plenty of opportunities to perform. He has found that, although he does will with competition, he really thrives by learning in the context of doing a show. So, while a good number of his dance and theatre friends are or will be attending the University of South Florida campus, which is known for its performance departments, he chose the smaller, private University of Tampa, which happens to be in the same city.

 

Out of curiosity, I searched both schools on the USN&WR site. It turns out that USF is tied for #161 on the USN&WR list of national universities. Meanwhile, UTampa is ranked #24 on the USN&WR list of regional universities in the south. Another of the schools he seriously considered is #139 on the list of national liberal arts colleges. So, how do we equate "national" with "regional" rankings? "National" sounds more impressive than "regional," but it doesn't tell the whole story for me. How does a top 25 ranking on a list of regional universities compare to a top top 200 ranking on the same organization's list of national universities? If you have a student whom you feel strongly would not be happy and poised to grow in the environment of a larger campus, which factor trumps the other? What if the higher ranked school -- or the school that has a relatively low rank but makes it onto the national list -- doesn't offer the specific program in which your student is interested? 

 

For the record, my freshman did seven shows on campus this past academic year, got faculty support to start his own dance ensemble and was named the Best Newcomer in Theatre. He has no doubts he made the right choice for himself.

 

It seems to me that the obsession with "ranking" is a pretty narrow way of looking at these questions and is probably significant to only a relatively small number of students in a limited number of fields or careers.

[Hoggirl]

I'm pretty sure that Cynthia is looking at USNWR. Most rankings are for grad schools and not UG.

 

I also noticed that most of the schools were highly ranked schools, but that really does not mean anything in terms of such a small sample. Ds, as a freshman (and most REUs do not accept freshman) was originally waitlisted before he was rejected from an REU which included participating in several weeks of research at CERN in Switzerland. Considering how many students apply and only 10 were accepted (I think they had 5 or 10 on the waitlist), UA was obviously not a strike against him. I don't think his being on the waitlist was any reflection on school in general. I think it really just reflected his personal accomplishments.

Yes, those were the ones I am talking about, specifically the nationally ranked research unis and nationally ranked LACs. I think there are different criteria for the schools that are regionally ranked. Maybe not as much research??? I am honestly not sure what those criteria are.

 

And, 8, you know I don't disagree with your statement at all. It was merely an observation about the schools represented on the list Creekland gave.

 

My dh went to the U of Arkansas, and he is doing just dandy, and I am thankful for that. Now, he is NOT doing as well financially as Doug McMillon mentioned in the CEO thread, but I have no complaints. ;)

 

ETA: Btw, Doug McMillon already has one ds at the U of A currently and another entering freshman ds there this fall.

[katilac]

No tomatoes, but I'm wondering what rankings you're using?

 

Every time  look at this kind of thing, I'm struck by the fact that there seem to be about as many "rankings" as there are colleges. So, when you say that a given school is "ranked #47," what does that mean? Who is ranking? What list are you looking at?

 

Edited to add: For example, I hit Google with the phrase "college rankings." The first link that came up was US News & World Report. I plugged my son's not-especially selective (acceptance rate just above 50%), medium-sized LAC--which few people have heard of and which is most often confused with the campus of the state university in the same city -- into the search box, and the results tell me that his school is ranked #24 among regional universities in the south. Similarly, my daughter's even smaller LAC, with an acceptance rate of over 90%, is apparently ranked #49 on the same list.

 

But I feel pretty confident that those aren't the rankings everyone gets so concerned about.

 

Right, people are generally referring to the national universities category unless they say otherwise. There are separate rankings for national universities, national liberal arts colleges, regional universities, and regional colleges (brief description from USN&WR at bottom of message).  Regional schools are ranked in relation to the other schools in their region.  There are obviously lots more schools ranked at the regional level. 

 

 

Yes, those were the ones I am talking about, specifically the nationally ranked research unis and nationally ranked LACs. I think there are different criteria for the schools that are regionally ranked. Maybe not as much research??? I am honestly not sure what those criteria are.

 

 

Below is a brief description from USN&WR. And U of Arkansas is nationally ranked. 

 

Schools in the National Universities category offer a full range of undergraduate majors, plus master's and Ph.D. programs. These colleges also are committed to producing groundbreaking research.

 

Liberal Arts Colleges emphasize undergraduate education and award at least half of their degrees in the liberal arts fields of study.

 

Regional Universities offer a full range of undergraduate programs and some master's programs but few doctoral programs. These rankings are split into four regions:  North, South, Midwest, and West. 

 

Regional colleges focus on undergraduate education but grant fewer than half their degrees in liberal arts disciplines.These rankings are split into four regions: North, South, Midwest, and West. 

[mathwonk]

One piece of advice for kids I have heard, to get an idea of the importance of elite schools, just ask some of the adults you know and admire where they went to college.  My dad, for instance, an investigator and agent for the Interstate Commerce Commission safety divison, specializing in train derailments, had only a high school diploma, and was completely self taught in law practice from his reading of "Chitty's Blackstone".   Still he argued his own liability cases in federal court for 35 years against the railroad company lawyers, and reportedly never lost a single case.  (He had turned down an appointment to West Point to join the railroad at age 16.)  My wife, who was chair of her department in the group medical practice she belonged to, graduated from a modest regional college.  (She had been recruited to MIT from high school but declined to apply.)  In terms of income, I would say both my dad and my wife out - earned me and my Harvard degree, (adjusted for inflation in the first case).

 

Edit: comment on the cost of education/books: the online copies of Chitty's Blackstone I found today are $500 for a set resembling my dad's, to $20,000 for a rare fine set.  When I offered mine for sale last year at a retail store I believe I was offered exactly zero, so gave them away to the library.  They then were very probably soon acquired by an antiquarian book seller and offered for sale at going rates.  If so, I wish him the best.  At least he is keeping them available.

[creekland]

I also noticed that most of the schools were highly ranked schools, but that really does not mean anything in terms of such a small sample.  Ds, as a freshman (and most REUs do not accept freshman) was originally waitlisted before he was rejected from an REU which included participating in several weeks of research at CERN in Switzerland.  Considering how many students apply and only 10 were accepted (I think they had 5 or 10 on the waitlist), UA was obviously not a strike against him.  I don't think his being on the waitlist was any reflection on school in general.  I think it really just reflected his personal accomplishments.

 

FWIW, U Alabama really has no chance of being on the list because they do not offer major not due to any reflection of their ranking.  If we had needed to for affordability, my guy would be at UA and he'd still be doing well (I'm positive).  He'd just have chosen a different major (microbio).  Either major suits pre-med just fine, but since URoc ended up at roughly the same cost (a couple grand less), it has been nice that my guy can have his first choice major.

 

What if the higher ranked school -- or the school that has a relatively low rank but makes it onto the national list -- doesn't offer the specific program in which your student is interested? 

 

...

 

It seems to me that the obsession with "ranking" is a pretty narrow way of looking at these questions and is probably significant to only a relatively small number of students in a limited number of fields or careers.

 

I've yet to see anyone so obsessed with ranking that they pick a school without their desired major when that major is a focus.  My guy, being pre-med, has the luxury of studying anything he wants (more or less).  We used UA as a financial safety in case his other schools (all with Brain study majors of some sort) didn't work out.

 

Otherwise, we went with program depth and schools that fit him (my guys in general) as well as schools that showed financial promise.

[Jenny in Florida]

Right, people are generally referring to the national universities category unless they say otherwise. There are separate rankings for national universities, national liberal arts colleges, regional universities, and regional colleges (brief description from USN&WR at bottom of message).  Regional schools are ranked in relation to the other schools in their region.  There are obviously lots more schools ranked at the regional level. 

 

 

 

Below is a brief description from USN&WR. And U of Arkansas is nationally ranked. 

 

Schools in the National Universities category offer a full range of undergraduate majors, plus master's and Ph.D. programs. These colleges also are committed to producing groundbreaking research.

 

Liberal Arts Colleges emphasize undergraduate education and award at least half of their degrees in the liberal arts fields of study.

 

Regional Universities offer a full range of undergraduate programs and some master's programs but few doctoral programs. These rankings are split into four regions:  North, South, Midwest, and West. 

 

Regional colleges focus on undergraduate education but grant fewer than half their degrees in liberal arts disciplines.These rankings are split into four regions: North, South, Midwest, and West. 

 

I understand the methodology. My questions were more focused on the significance.

 

I'm sure that, for STEM folks, that whole "groundbreaking research" thing seems very important. However, neither of my kids pursued/is pursuing a field in which research, groundbreaking or not, is a consideration. Nor is it typical to earn or even consider a doctorate. So, the distinctive things that earn a school a spot on the "national universities" list are not meaningful to my students.

 

Once you toss those criteria out the window, the whole concept of a school being "better" because it appears on the national list becomes much less interesting.

[katilac]

I understand the methodology. My questions were more focused on the significance.

 

I'm sure that, for STEM folks, that whole "groundbreaking research" thing seems very important. However, neither of my kids pursued/is pursuing a field in which research, groundbreaking or not, is a consideration. Nor is it typical to earn or even consider a doctorate. So, the distinctive things that earn a school a spot on the "national universities" list are not meaningful to my students.

 

Once you toss those criteria out the window, the whole concept of a school being "better" because it appears on the national list becomes much less interesting.

 

Oh, sorry. You asked what rankings were used, what they meant, and whether the regional rankings you looked up were what people were talking about, so that's what I tried to clarify. The significance, to me, would be the ability to quickly find schools that meet whatever criteria one decides is important to them. The rankings make that easy to do. 

 

For various reasons, being a research university does usually translate into stronger programs and stronger students. A student may not care about the research itself but rather the advantages that go hand-in-hand with it. The schools ranked around #50 or so nationally are, generally speaking, not only going to have much higher students stats than a #50 regionally but also higher graduation rates, better faculty to student ratios, more majors, more resources, and so on. 

 

Rankings are a place to get started, a quick-and-dirty source of information on lots and lots of schools. Of course one should move a school up or down on their personal list based on what factors are most important to them; that only makes sense.  If someone refuses to look any further than the bare number, well, there's really no helping them, lol. 

 

It's impossible to look at every single school. We found a few that made it onto our short list by scanning the rankings and going, huh, this college known for sports is actually pretty rigorous, let's take another look. 

 

Performing arts departments should be evaluated quite differently. The strengths of the school at large will not come into play nearly as much, because students may take few or even no academic courses. The majority of students, even those with a major in mind, are going to have more interest in the overall strengths of the school. Most departments are more interrelated and less autonomous than performing arts. 

 

College rankings should not be considered sacred writings, but they can certainly be a useful tool. 

[8filltheheart]

Oh, sorry. You asked what rankings were used, what they meant, and whether the regional rankings you looked up were what people were talking about, so that's what I tried to clarify. The significance, to me, would be the ability to quickly find schools that meet whatever criteria one decides is important to them. The rankings make that easy to do.

 

For various reasons, being a research university does usually translate into stronger programs and stronger students. A student may not care about the research itself but rather the advantages that go hand-in-hand with it. The schools ranked around #50 or so nationally are, generally speaking, not only going to have much higher students stats than a #50 regionally but also higher graduation rates, better faculty to student ratios, more majors, more resources, and so on.

 

.....

College rankings should not be considered sacred writings, but they can certainly be a useful tool.

Our experience does not bear this out. We live near a regional university which is not ranked. It does not offer graduate level degrees. As a DE student, our ds was actively involved in research. The dean at a university ranked higher than 40 told our ds that his research experience was beyond what their undergrads get to do bc what he was doing was what their grad students do and the undergrads work for grad students.

 

If it weren't for the fact that ds had almost maxed out all of their course offerings in physics, the local university's research opportunities were actually superior to other schools.

[Jenny in Florida]

The significance, to me, would be the ability to quickly find schools that meet whatever criteria one decides is important to them. The rankings make that easy to do. 

 

For various reasons, being a research university does usually translate into stronger programs and stronger students. A student may not care about the research itself but rather the advantages that go hand-in-hand with it. The schools ranked around #50 or so nationally are, generally speaking, not only going to have much higher students stats than a #50 regionally but also higher graduation rates, better faculty to student ratios, more majors, more resources, and so on. 

 

But I don't actually think these rankings make anything easier. For example, let's begin with the presumption that you have a student (like mine) whose preference was to attend a college in-state, within a reasonable day's drive of our home in Orlando. We'll ignore for the moment that he also strongly preferred a small school and focus solely on the kinds of data used to general those rankings.

 

As it happens, the city of Tampa, about 90 minutes from our house, has two college campuses, the University of South Florida (ranked #161 on the USN&WR national universities list) and the University of Tampa (ranked #24 among regional universities). Both offer my student's intended major(s), 

 

Out of curiosity, and since it seemed in some ways a more relevant comparison, I checked the USN&WR list of national liberal arts colleges. There appear to be two ranked LACs in Florida. The higher ranked in-state school, the New College of Florida, does not offer my student's desired major(s). Next on the list is Eckerd College, ranked #124. Eckerd offers a general major in theatre, but neither musical theatre nor dance. 

 

Average freshman retention rate according to USN&WR:

 

USF - 89%

UT - 73%

 

Classes with fewer than 20 students:

 

USF

UT - 41.4%

 

Classes with 50 or more students:

 

USF - 14%

UT - 1%

 

Student-faculty ratio:

 

USF - 24:1

UT - 17:1

 

Fall 2013 acceptance rate:

 

USF - 63%

UT - 52.2%

 

Six-year graduation rate:

 

USF - 63%

UT - 60%

 

I had to hop over to the College Board site for the following comparisons.

 

Mid-range SAT scores (CR/M/W):

 

USF - 530-560/540-570/510-540

UT - 490-580/500-580/490-570

 

Mid-range ACT scores (composite):

 

USF - 23-25

UT - 22-27

 

So, my question remains how to weight and evaluate the significance of "national ranking" vs. "regional ranking." One of these two schools makes it onto the apparently more respected national list, but has a lower ranking. The other languishes on the regional list but ranks in the top 25 there. The larger school retains more of its freshman, but the six-year graduation rates are roughly comparable. The test scores of incoming freshman range a bit more widely at the smaller school, but, broadly speaking, cluster at pretty similar points. The smaller school admits a smaller percentage of applicants and blows away the larger school when it comes to average class size and student-faculty ratio. The larger school is well known for its large program in the areas of my student's interest, but the smaller school has recently re-accredited and transitioned its program from a B.A. to a B.F.A. and is in the process of growing enrollment and the department (and, they hope, reputation).

 

Given that situation, how much does, or should, the national/regional distinction matter? Does the large school "win" simply by virtue of qualifying for the national list?

[Hoggirl]

Are you comparing the University of SOUTH Florida to the University of Tampa in your above post? I got confused - when I see UF I think University of Florida in Gainesville.

[Jenny in Florida]

Are you coming the University of SOUTH Florida to the University of Tampa in your above post? I got confused - when I see UF I think University of Florida in Gainesville.

 

I'm sorry. You are correct. I'll fix it.

[creekland]

Given that situation, how much does, or should, the national/regional distinction matter? Does the large school "win" simply by virtue of qualifying for the national list?

 

With Theater (or any of the Arts) I would think "overall" rankings of any sort are meaningless.

 

Assuming any other major, I wouldn't really think there's any difference between the two schools you're referring to.  I'd be checking to see where grads went.

 

Overall rankings aren't generally based upon grad school stuff.  Other rankings (like Civil Engineering or Bio or whatever) often are.  One needs to look closely at any ranking system since there are different ones out there.

 

[Hoggirl]

Are you coming the University of SOUTH Florida to the University of Tampa in your above post? I got confused - when I see UF I think University of Florida in Gainesville.

Coming? What in the world? I think that was supposed to have been "comparing." I clearly need to stay off the boards until later in the morning when I have had more coffee. Good grief!

[8filltheheart]

Overall rankings aren't generally based upon grad school stuff.

 

I edited my post bc I was under the impression that our regional university was not ranked bc it is not a LAC and it does not offer grad level degrees. Do you know why some schools are just not ranked? There are universities with medical schools that are not ranked which I find puzzling.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I edited my post bc I was under the impression that our regional university was not ranked bc it is not a LAC and it does not offer grad level degrees. Do you know why some schools are just not ranked? There are universities with medical schools that are not ranked which I find puzzling.

 

That's a great question.

 

I found some info on USNWR methodology.  http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2014/09/08/how-us-news-calculated-the-2015-best-colleges-rankings

 

National Universities offer a full range of undergraduate majors, plus master's and doctoral programs, and emphasize faculty research. National Liberal Arts Colleges focus almost exclusively on undergraduate education. They award at least 50 percent of their degrees in the arts and sciences. 

Regional Universities offer a broad scope of undergraduate degrees and some master's degree programs but few, if any, doctoral programs. Regional Colleges focus on undergraduate education but grant fewer than 50 percent of their degrees in liberal arts disciplines; this category also includes schools that have small bachelor's degree programs but primarily grant two-year associate degrees. 

Regional Universities and Regional Colleges are further divided and ranked in four geographical groups: North, South, Midwest and West. 

On the second page: Unranked schools

Unranked Schools

Schools are Unranked and listed separately by category if they have indicated that they don't use SAT or ACT test scores in admissions decisions for first-time, first-year, degree-seeking applicants. And, in a few cases, schools are Unranked if too few respondents to the spring and summer 2014 peer assessment survey gave them a rating.

Other reasons institutions are not ranked include: a total enrollment of fewer than 200 students, a large proportion of nontraditional students and no first-year students – as is the situation at so-called upper-division schools. 

As a result of these eligibility standards, many of the for-profit institutions have been grouped with the Unranked schools; their bachelor's degree candidates are largely nontraditional students in degree completion programs, for example, or they don't use SAT or ACT test scores in admissions decisions.

 

In total, 148 colleges in the National Universities, National Liberal Arts Colleges, Regional Universities and Regional Colleges categories are listed as Unranked.

We also did not rank 83 highly specialized schools in arts, business and engineering. 

Honestly, every time I read through the USNWR methodology I am reminded that it relies heavily on reputation and doesn't really present a nuanced rating of the relative value of schools.  I almost think you should just round to the nearest 50 when looking at the rankings.  Not to mention the fact that it has to represent highly variable experiences across departments and degree programs.  As Jenny has mentioned with regard to performance degrees, the overall ranking may not describe the opportunities within a specific program.  Or if you look at the brain cognition program that Creekland's son is in; it probably does not matter to a student interested in pre-med for brain science what the selectivity of the English department is.  

I've found that the  broad brush information available is especially frustrating when looking at larger universities that have wide offerings.  Just as an example, in the most recent national rankings, Princeton is #1 and Carnegie Mellon is #25 on the national list.  But for my computer science oriented kid, I would hardly feel that he'd somehow gotten second best if he went to Carnegie Mellon.  (For that matter, I won't feel that he's gotten a poor option if he heads to Purdue or Virgina Tech or Michigan Tech.)   For my politics, foreign language, history and international affairs loving son the calculations may well be flipped around.  Would he somehow be better served at MIT than at Georgetown, just because MIT has a higher rank?

For that matter, service academies end up in a weird cul-de-sac of rankings because they don't offer doctorate degrees.  In fact they don't offer masters' degrees on campus.  On the other hand that means that all of the wave tanks, tow tanks, reactors, materials labs and attention of the professors is focused on the undergraduate students.  And while USNWR ranks them with liberal arts colleges, the Naval Academy emphasizes science math and engineering to the extreme.  In fact even the English majors take a significant core of science engineering and math; so much so that they earn Bachelor of Science degrees.   (Oh, as an aside the very high rankings that service academies get on the alumni pay rankings are very meaningless; they are based on information from a site that aggregates pay information that is voluntarily submitted and intentionally does not include military salaries in its calculations.  So the pay stats for academy alum are based on the very small number of grads who are not serving in the military at those data collection dates.)  

[And I don't even want to get started on how much of the rankings are based on reputation.  How much of a spike does a school get for having a prominent sports team, simply because high school counselors would then have recognized the name of the school?  Do high school counselors or even college administrators in California really have a meaningful sense of the relative value of the education offered at Miami University vs William and Mary?  Do they even know where Miami University is?  Do counselors or college administrators in Connecticut have meaningful impressions of Pepperdine vs Pomona?  I really think that a rankings list offers just the basest of comparisons.  Heck, I have trouble getting counselors at our community college to give us useful information on specific instructors in their own campus or the difference between two branches within the same CC system. ]

[katilac]

But I don't actually think these rankings make anything easier. 

 

<big snip>

 

Does the large school "win" simply by virtue of qualifying for the national list?

 

No, the larger doesn't automatically 'win,' you have to do exactly what you did in your example: dig deeper and compare.  

 

Rankings are no more than a starting point, much like recommendations from friends and family. Both rankings and recommendations can make you take a second look at a school you wasn't on your radar, but the work of a deep comparison is always going to be there. 

 

As far as making the deeper research easier, the free rankings are best for making you aware of relatively unknown but high performing schools. For full research, free is not going to be nearly as helpful as paying for the full rankings ($25 to $30). This was worth it to me, because it makes it very easy to compare lots of schools quickly, without having to go to various sites for various information - it's all in one place, easy to find and easy to read. 

 

You can also look at all of the ranking indicators for a certain school, and give them more or less weight according to what's important to you. I might give less weight to peer and counselor assessments, more weight to graduation rates and faculty resources. 

 

It would take an insane amount of time for us to look up every school within a day's drive of us. The full rankings made it easy for us to make a shorter list of schools that met our criteria (stuff like graduation rate and ACT range; there are a surprising number of regionally ranked schools with pretty low ACT ranges). This is all laid out on a list to scan quickly, so it saves a lot of time versus looking up every school. 

 

College rankings can certainly be misused, but they can also be a helpful tool. About 80% of college students change their major at least once, and my dd is pretty undecided to begin with. For us, it was extremely helpful to quickly make a list of schools that are likely to have well-prepared, engaged students while still allowing for the possibility of merit aid. 

[SeaConquest]

Did anybody else see this today?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/05/28/the-road-to-a-genius-grant-often-starts-at-lesser-known-colleges/?postshare=1931432835574786

[FaithManor]

I edited my post bc I was under the impression that our regional university was not ranked bc it is not a LAC and it does not offer grad level degrees. Do you know why some schools are just not ranked? There are universities with medical schools that are not ranked which I find puzzling.

I don't know why some of them have no ranking but as a matter of public fact here, incredibly crappy sate U down the road actually requested their ranking not be published because the report and statistics were scathingly bad! A coupke of years ago when I worked as a guidance counselor at a private school, the report by a local journalist was forwarded to me. Scary, scary, scary bad. I woukd not eend my dog there much less my child. The reputation is deserved and unfortunately, Michigan employers know it so they have a high unemployment rate amongst their graduates.

 

I won't name them here due to libel issuses as they are very litigious and snarky, but if I ever saw someone post here that they were considrring that school for thejr student, I would be PM'ing immediately!

[8filltheheart]

I don't know why some of them have no ranking but as a matter of public fact here, incredibly crappy sate U down the road actually requested their ranking not be published because the report and statistics were scathingly bad! A coupke of years ago when I worked as a guidance counselor at a private school, the report by a local journalist was forwarded to me. Scary, scary, scary bad. I woukd not eend my dog there much less my child. The reputation is deserved and unfortunately, Michigan employers know it so they have a high unemployment rate amongst their graduates.

 

I won't name them here due to libel issuses as they are very litigious and snarky, but if I ever saw someone post here that they were considrring that school for thejr student, I would be PM'ing immediately!

I don't think this is the case with this school. They have ABET accredited engineering programs. Ds thought that his classes were better than the nationally ranked university where he DE-ed in VA. one of its program, depending on which program ranking you look at, is ranked in the top 50 nationally (I checked out 3 different websites and ignored USNWR and it consistently was rated in the top 50. Considering there are over 800 4 yr accredited programs In this field in the US, the university just cannot be that bad.)

[FaithManor]

I don't think this is the case with this school. They have ABET accredited engineering programs. Ds thought that his classes were better than the nationally ranked university where he DE-ed in VA. one of its program, depending on which program ranking you look at, is ranked in the top 50 nationally (I checked out 3 different websites and ignored USNWR and it consistently was rated in the top 50. Considering there are over 800 4 yr accredited programs In this field in the US, the university just cannot be that bad.)

I was only speaking to this one school who specifically requests that their ranking go unpublished.

[8filltheheart]

I just saw this and wanted to share. At the NASA robotics mining competition, UA won 1st (and did a couple of yrs ago as well. I think they placed 2nd or 3rd last yr.). The competition includes schools like Case, Mines, Purdue, and UIUC (which all placed in various categories.)

 

https://www.facebook.com/RoboticMiningCompetition/posts/10153318178359183?fref=nf

 

I am continually impressed with UA. Roll Tide!!

 

ETA: here is a list of the universities involved in the competition:

 

Participants

2015 Competitors

 

Auburn University

Case Western Reserve University

College of DuPage

Colorado School of Mines

Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University

Florida Institute of Technology

Florida International University

Inter American University of Puerto Rico

Iowa State University

John Brown University

Kent State University

Merrimack College

Milwaukee School of Engineering

Mississippi State University

Missouri University of Science and Technology

Montana State University

Montana Tech

NYU Polytechnic School of Engineering

Oakton Community College

Polytechnic University of Puerto Rico

Purdue University

South Dakota School of Mines & Technology

Temple University

Texas A&M University Corpus Christi

Texas A&M International University

The University of Akron

The University of Alabama

The University of North Carolina at Charlotte

University of Alaska-Fairbanks

University of Arkansas

University of Central Florida

University of Florida

University of Hawaii-Hilo

University of Illinois at Chicago

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

University of Iowa

University of Miami

University of Michigan

University of Nebraska-Lincoln

University of New Hampshire

University of North Dakota

University of Portland

University of Utah

University of Vermont

University of Virginia

Virginia State University

Virginia Tech

Washington University in St. Louis

Wright State University