NOOOOOO!

[Orthodox6]

I'm SO freaking confused. What happened with the dogs?

Consumed by the goats?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why do you think something happened to the dogs?  

[Renai]

I'm SO freaking confused. What happened with the dogs?

 

I have no idea. She posted a ss of a conversation and said that one dog was killed and another stolen, but the ss convo didn't seem to say anything like that. Your guess is as good as mine.

[intothefray]

There was something on TNR about it.

 

 

Why do you think something happened to the dogs?  

 

[intothefray]

She's insane. I hope nothing happened to the dogs like that (well, at least killed. The stolen one is probably better off. But I wouldn't wish that on anyone...) You'd think she would have shown some proof or something. She overshares EVERYTHING usually.

 

I have no idea. She posted a ss of a conversation and said that one dog was killed and another stolen, but the ss convo didn't seem to say anything like that. Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

You know, I hope that they realized that they couldn't take care of the dogs and rehomed them.  I somehow doubt though that she could admit that they simply couldn't take care of them.  

[Renai]

Here's the ss Nicole posted: https://www.facebook.com/MyBlessedLittleHomestead/photos/p.1047688625243014/1047688625243014/?type=1&theater

 

When someone asked how does she know it wasn't a wild animal, or that the dogs are somewhere else on the property, she answered:

 

 

Blessed Little Homestead Did you see the screen shot I posted, the dogs were killed/ stolen a few days later. 

Coincidence? I doubt it

 

 

 

Blessed Little Homestead And the vet confirmed Asters wounds were not from an animal

 

 

[myfunnybunch]

I'm glad that they have the prefab.  I think the more limited posting is a good thing too even if it leaves us curious.  I think having CPS involved has been a good thing.  Do I think that their entire mindset has changed?  Probably not but I tend to be optimistic in my hopes for families to get it together and to make things work.  I'm always willing to have my cynical side proven wrong over time.  

 

I agree.

 

I wonder...If the official reason the children were removed from the home was the state of the housing, and the family has provided housing that is considered adequate (and come up with some sort of plan for clean water/electricity?), then it may very well be that CPS must consider that the family has addressed (or is taking steps to address) those needs, so they returned the children. By giving the kids back but retaining legal custody, the state has some leverage that might make it motivating for Nicole to start to climb out of the delusional hole she's dug herself into and provide adequate housing and care and education for the children in order to regain legal custody.

 

I'm also wondering what will happen when the school year rolls around. Will the kids be put in school, or will she be allowed to continue to homeschool them as long as she remains in compliance with the state homeschool law?

[Renai]

I agree.

 

I wonder...If the official reason the children were removed from the home was the state of the housing, and the family has provided housing that is considered adequate (and come up with some sort of plan for clean water/electricity?), then it may very well be that CPS must consider that the family has addressed (or is taking steps to address) those needs, so they returned the children. By giving the kids back but retaining legal custody, the state has some leverage that might make it motivating for Nicole to start to climb out of the delusional hole she's dug herself into and provide adequate housing and care and education for the children in order to regain legal custody.

 

I'm also wondering what will happen when the school year rolls around. Will the kids be put in school, or will she be allowed to continue to homeschool them as long as she remains in compliance with the state homeschool law?

 

Judging by her recent posts, she's just as delusional as ever (see a couple of quotes above). I think I have run out of hope for her. She still says everything was fine before CPS stepped in. She has learned nothing. 

[Heather in VA]

I agree. Nothing has changed. If anything she is more convinced she's perfect and being harassed. Is there anything to prevent them from taking off again?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Judging by her recent posts, she's just as delusional as ever (see a couple of quotes above). I think I have run out of hope for her. She still says everything was fine before CPS stepped in. She has learned nothing. 

Then things will spiral downward and hopefully CPS will step in again because they have that legal custody and will be in a  position to advocate even more for the children.  

[Orthodox6]

I'm also wondering what will happen when the school year rolls around. Will the kids be put in school, or will she be allowed to continue to homeschool them as long as she remains in compliance with the state homeschool law?

 

There is homeschooling.

There is unschooling.

Both are legitimate educational approaches.

 

Then there is. . .

non-schooling.

 

The last is what I have the impression has been the sad norm, at least since moving to the cesspool.

[Renai]

I agree. Nothing has changed. If anything she is more convinced she's perfect and being harassed. Is there anything to prevent them from taking off again?

 

Yes. And the nasty ranting she used to save for her personal page has spilled over to blh.

[FaithManor]

I do not believe Nicole is mentally stable enough to change, nor do I think she will acquiesce to medical treatment for her illness. The state will either babysit this family for many years to come constantly threatening them with action and bouncing these kids hopelessly back and forth between care and bios until so much emotional trauma occurs that the children can't function, or they'll finally be forced to incarcerate these two and take the children permanently.

 

If the children land in care again, I would not be shocked if the authorities seize the baby as soon after birth as they can locate the child.

 

I also do not put it past the Nauglers to run if the children are returned to care, and they think there is any chance they will lose the baby. I would not put it past them at all to completely abandon the others. They really just do not care about the well being of their children, only their anti-government, anti-community, individual liberty at all cost ideology.

[ChemMommy]

Here's the ss Nicole posted: https://www.facebook.com/MyBlessedLittleHomestead/photos/p.1047688625243014/1047688625243014/?type=1&theater

 

When someone asked how does she know it wasn't a wild animal, or that the dogs are somewhere else on the property, she answered:

 

Take dogs to vet but delivers baby in the shack.....odd priorities

[myfunnybunch]

Then things will spiral downward and hopefully CPS will step in again because they have that legal custody and will be in a  position to advocate even more for the children.  

 

Yes, this. And CPS will also be able to show that they made a good faith effort to return the children and support the reunification of the family. If the parents choose not to comply fully  that's certainly their choice, and they risk losing custody of the children permanently. Fwiw, that would not be unexpected (imo), as I agree that Nicole is probably too delusional by this point to understand that she's really not being persecuted and her children are not being sold by the state.

 

CPS is under quite a spotlight with this situation. They must be aware that their every move is being tracked and scrutinized by the public, both supporters and detractors. If they say the reason the kids were removed is inadequate housing and adequate housing is provided by the parents, then CPS is probably being extra careful to avoid appearance of retaliation or over-control. It is not illegal to post delusional ideas on Facebook, to hold wacky anti-government beliefs, or to just plain be a nutball. In order to remove the children permanently, or even justify not returning them, CPS will have to have some good solid legal reasons for having concern for the *future* of the children.

[Renthead Mommy]

Here's the ss Nicole posted: https://www.facebook.com/MyBlessedLittleHomestead/photos/p.1047688625243014/1047688625243014/?type=1&theater

 

When someone asked how does she know it wasn't a wild animal, or that the dogs are somewhere else on the property, she answered:

 

 

Some how I have a hard time believing she actually took a dog to a real vet....

[Ottakee]

If you look at the picture of the pre-fab closely, you can see a power pole with power lines.  I am wondering if they have electricity in that prefab.  That along with a GOOD composing toilet and/or outhouse, and a well or water delivery would make it much better for the kids.  Wonder how long they could maintain that though.

[FaithManor]

If you look at the picture of the pre-fab closely, you can see a power pole with power lines.  I am wondering if they have electricity in that prefab.  That along with a GOOD composing toilet and/or outhouse, and a well or water delivery would make it much better for the kids.  Wonder how long they could maintain that though.

I can't see her making enough money from the dog grooming given her instability nor Joe getting a job so that the utility bill will get paid. Just. don't.see it.

 

Sigh....

[Heather in VA]

One thing that struck me is that most 'in-the-know' foster care people here said that mental health evaluations for both Joe and Nicole would be at the top of the list for returning the kids. But it certainly doesn't seem like that happened. This is really starting to sound like a give-up on the part of CPS. They got a pre-fab so they have walls and now everything is back to normal. I know there is this idea that CPS will be all over them but they don't have babysitting man-power. I've heard that kind of thing before in stories about CPS returning kids - they are going to watch over them like hawks -  and the next thing you know one of the kids is dead. 

 

added: this is not to imply I think Nicole will be violent to the kids - just that CPS watching like a hawk really isn't that effective

[FaithManor]

One thing that struck me is that most 'in-the-know' foster care people here said that mental health evaluations for both Joe and Nicole would be at the top of the list for returning the kids. But it certainly doesn't seem like that happened. This is really starting to sound like a give-up on the part of CPS. They got a pre-fab so they have walls and now everything is back to normal. I know there is this idea that CPS will be all over them but they don't have babysitting man-power. I've heard that kind of thing before in stories about CPS returning kids - they are going to watch over them like hawks -  and the next thing you know one of the kids is dead. 

 

added: this is not to imply I think Nicole will be violent to the kids - just that CPS watching like a hawk really isn't that effective

Oh I agree! One of the little boys I took care of when doing respite care was dead inside of a week when returned to his bio mother who was supposed to be being watched. Took a hammer to his head. I threw up when I heard the news. I'd only just two weeks before been cuddling him in the rocking chair wishing that he could stay forever with his foster family.

 

Dead in a week.

 

I've seen some cases in which the oversight was there for certain. But it's like a game of Russian roulette. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.

[Renai]

One thing that struck me is that most 'in-the-know' foster care people here said that mental health evaluations for both Joe and Nicole would be at the top of the list for returning the kids. But it certainly doesn't seem like that happened. This is really starting to sound like a give-up on the part of CPS. They got a pre-fab so they have walls and now everything is back to normal. I know there is this idea that CPS will be all over them but they don't have babysitting man-power. I've heard that kind of thing before in stories about CPS returning kids - they are going to watch over them like hawks -  and the next thing you know one of the kids is dead. 

 

added: this is not to imply I think Nicole will be violent to the kids - just that CPS watching like a hawk really isn't that effective

 

 

Oh I agree! One of the little boys I took care of when doing respite care was dead inside of a week when returned to his bio mother who was supposed to be being watched. Took a hammer to his head. I threw up when I heard the news. I'd only just two weeks before been cuddling him in the rocking chair wishing that he could stay forever with his foster family.

 

Dead in a week.

 

I've seen some cases in which the oversight was there for certain. But it's like a game of Russian roulette. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.

 

I keep thinking how Nicole said she'd rather lock them all up in a house and burn it down rather than give up her kids. Now she has the walls to do that.

[FaithManor]

I keep thinking how Nicole said she'd rather lock them all up in a house and burn it down rather than give up her kids. Now she has the walls to do that.

I think she's sick enough to do it too! That's a very scary thought!!!!

[Heather in VA]

I keep thinking how Nicole said she'd rather lock them all up in a house and burn it down rather than give up her kids. Now she has the walls to do that.

 

Wow. I missed that comment. I asserted that I didn't think Nicole was violent, just really messed up and that the danger to the kids comes from neglect, dangerous living conditions, and poor supervision. But anyone who could say that is definitely a threat to her kids. We all use hyperbole especially when related to our kids but never would a normal, rational person say something like that. 

[Word Nerd]

I'm no Nicole supporter, but the speculation that she might murder her children is over the top.

[Spryte]

I'm no Nicole supporter, but the speculation that she might murder her children is over the top.

I find it more likely that she'll run with the kids, if she possibly can.

[Heather in VA]

I'm no Nicole supporter, but the speculation that she might murder her children is over the top.

 

I would have thought so too until the quote that she would barricade herself in a house with the kids and burn it down. I still think its more likely than they will run but while before I was 99% sure she wouldn't purposely hurt them, now I'm not as sure. I still think it's unlikely but rational people just don't say stuff like that. 

[El...]

Oh I agree! One of the little boys I took care of when doing respite care was dead inside of a week when returned to his bio mother who was supposed to be being watched. Took a hammer to his head. I threw up when I heard the news. I'd only just two weeks before been cuddling him in the rocking chair wishing that he could stay forever with his foster family.

 

Dead in a week.

 

I've seen some cases in which the oversight was there for certain. But it's like a game of Russian roulette. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.

My God.  I'm so sorry, for him and for you. 

[gardenmom5]

I would have thought so too until the quote that she would barricade herself in a house with the kids and burn it down. I still think its more likely than they will run but while before I was 99% sure she wouldn't purposely hurt them, now I'm not as sure. I still think it's unlikely but rational people just don't say stuff like that. 

 

rational people don't have their kids poop in a bucket in what is "supposed to be" their home or on the ground.  no one has ever been able to legitimately accuse N of being rational.

[Word Nerd]

rational people don't have their kids poop in a bucket in what is "supposed to be" their home or on the ground.  no one has ever been able to legitimately accuse N of being rational.

 

Behaving irrationally doesn't make one a would-be killer.

[gardenmom5]

Behaving irrationally doesn't make one a would-be killer.

 

I only said she is irrational.  if any of her kids ever die in her care it is more likely to be from neglect and refusing medical care.  (things she has done in the past that have left them ill/injured. lucky for her, none of them have yet died from her neglect.)

[Spryte]

I only said she is irrational. if any of her kids ever die in her care it is more likely to be from neglect and refusing medical care. (things she has done in the past that have left them ill/injured. lucky for her, none of them have yet died from her neglect.)

Yes, I think neglect is a more likely reason that one of her kids could die in her care. How sad to even type that.

[Renai]

Behaving irrationally doesn't make one a would-be killer.

 

That threat came from her, not me. Her recent (more vile, attacking) comments reminded me of her saying this. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned post-partum psychosis. It would not be the first time a parent hurt a child due to untreated mental illness.

 

Of course, this is neither an expectation or speculation, on my part, of what will happen. It is a thought that crossed my mind of a specific comment she made saying she'd burn herself up along with her children rather than have them taken.

[swellmomma]

One thing that struck me is that most 'in-the-know' foster care people here said that mental health evaluations for both Joe and Nicole would be at the top of the list for returning the kids. But it certainly doesn't seem like that happened. This is really starting to sound like a give-up on the part of CPS. They got a pre-fab so they have walls and now everything is back to normal. I know there is this idea that CPS will be all over them but they don't have babysitting man-power. I've heard that kind of thing before in stories about CPS returning kids - they are going to watch over them like hawks -  and the next thing you know one of the kids is dead. 

 

added: this is not to imply I think Nicole will be violent to the kids - just that CPS watching like a hawk really isn't that effective

They still may require them.  WHen I had my run in with cps, I never lost custody of my kids, and they said there was no abuse or neglect but they still had me do a mental health assessment as part of their investigation. 

 

They may have the kids back but CPS will still be doing weekly visits, and may still require the mental health assessment, parenting classes etc.  

 

In my case the cw thought a single mom that had a history of depression was not fit to homeschool.  SHe was wrong.  What she thought in my assessment were signs I had to put my kids into ps another cw thought were strengths for homeschooling my particular kids.  They read the same report and came out with very different conclusions.  And once it was found that my case was only open still due to a personal agenda of the initial cw everything was closed and I was left alone.  

 

So they may have physical custody of the kids, but they can not make any major decisions for them.  CPS will determine how they are educated, if they will be vaccinated etc. Will be doing weekly visits to check on the welfare of the children and can very well still expect mental health evaluations, therapy, parenting classes etc for the parents.

[Mergath]

Behaving irrationally doesn't make one a would-be killer.

 

No, but knowing she's actually said she'll murder her children before she lets CPS take them again doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

[Mergath]

There is homeschooling.

There is unschooling.

Both are legitimate educational approaches.

 

Then there is. . .

non-schooling.

 

The last is what I have the impression has been the sad norm, at least since moving to the cesspool.

 

Yup. I didn't see any books or computers or learning materials of any kind there. And people can romanticize the outdoors all they want, but there's only so much you can learn from playing with mud and sticks.

[Mergath]

Take dogs to vet but delivers baby in the shack.....odd priorities

 

Which brings up another point... Is CPS going to let her birth her baby in the New and Improved Shack? I would guess that getting appropriate medical care is one of the conditions for her to keep her kids, and while CPS doesn't have legal custody of the baby yet, the second it pops out it will be one of her kids not getting medical care. And I think homebirths are just fine, but not unassisted homebirths with no prenatal care and where Rh incompatibility is an issue.

[Heather in VA]

No, but knowing she's actually said she'll murder her children before she lets CPS take them again doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

 

This is what I was trying to say. I really don't believe the kids are at a high risk for purposeful harm. As several have said, if one of the kids were to die I think it would be more likely to be from neglect. But her comment does make me less sure that there is no chance. 

[Renai]

They still may require them.  WHen I had my run in with cps, I never lost custody of my kids, and they said there was no abuse or neglect but they still had me do a mental health assessment as part of their investigation. 

 

They may have the kids back but CPS will still be doing weekly visits, and may still require the mental health assessment, parenting classes etc.  

 

In my case the cw thought a single mom that had a history of depression was not fit to homeschool.  SHe was wrong.  What she thought in my assessment were signs I had to put my kids into ps another cw thought were strengths for homeschooling my particular kids.  They read the same report and came out with very different conclusions.  And once it was found that my case was only open still due to a personal agenda of the initial cw everything was closed and I was left alone.  

 

So they may have physical custody of the kids, but they can not make any major decisions for them.  CPS will determine how they are educated, if they will be vaccinated etc. Will be doing weekly visits to check on the welfare of the children and can very well still expect mental health evaluations, therapy, parenting classes etc for the parents.

 

I still think it's crazy what you had to go through.

 

Ok, so cps CAN determine vaccinations and such, but do you (general "you") think they will actually require such knowing the family's beliefs? I understand they may require ps and birth certificates, etc., but couldn't the family still opt out of vaxxing (I don't know the vax laws in KY)? That really does seem like overstepping.

[intothefray]

I can't imagine living in a tiny house with 10 kids. I have a 3 bedroom trailer with 3 girls in 1 room, my boy in his own room and then my husband and I in one room. It's 6 of us here. It's cramped enough. We're saving for a bigger place eventually. I would literally go insane living in a tinier space than this with more children.

 

I feel bad for the kids.

[Renai]

Which brings up another point... Is CPS going to let her birth her baby in the New and Improved Shack? I would guess that getting appropriate medical care is one of the conditions for her to keep her kids, and while CPS doesn't have legal custody of the baby yet, the second it pops out it will be one of her kids not getting medical care. And I think homebirths are just fine, but not unassisted homebirths with no prenatal care and where Rh incompatibility is an issue.

She posted on her page for any local physicians to message her a little while ago. Maybe she's planning on having a care provider.

[Jean in Newcastle]

She put up a message asking for local physicians to message her. . .    wonder what that is about?  

[intothefray]

On the topic of CPS-

 

They randomly showed up a few times after the hospital incident for me. One time, she even followed us from Mcdonalds (I have no idea how she found us there) to home.

 

I'm sure they'll do visits with the Nauglers without telling them they're coming.

[Heather in VA]

She posted on her page for any local physicians to message her a little while ago. Maybe she's planning on having a care provider.

 

She is hoping a doctor will answer a FB post????

[Mergath]

She posted on her page for any local physicians to message her a little while ago. Maybe she's planning on having a care provider.

 

Wait... what? She posted on her page looking for physicians? Who the hell does that? Does she not understand how to call a clinic and set up an appointment? If the only person who responds is a podiatrist is she going to have him deliver the baby?

 

Oh wait, I get it. If she vaguely mentions she's looking for a doctor, her followers will think something is wrong and give her more attention. And then she can tell CPS, "I tried looking for a doctor, but I couldn't find one!"

 

What a nutbar.

[FaithManor]

I still think it's crazy what you had to go through.

 

Ok, so cps CAN determine vaccinations and such, but do you (general "you") think they will actually require such knowing the family's beliefs? I understand they may require ps and birth certificates, etc., but couldn't the family still opt out of vaxxing (I don't know the vax laws in KY)? That really does seem like overstepping.

They absolutely can and usually will vax against biological parents wishes. The reason for this is that while wards of the court, all of the school age children will be required to attend the PS and the PS requires vaccines. It seems crazy but I've seen this time and again, no requirements at all to get bio permission for ANY medical treatment but can't cut their hair without consent.

 

That's the system.

 

But, as wards of the court, the state does become the "defacto" parent and as such has the right to do what it wants to do. There are definitely circumstances in which it is over reaching, but on the other hand, they can't run around letting bios run the lives of foster families and social workers, and since the majority of the kids in care are there for legitimate reasons it also makes no sense to allow the bios to dictate such things. I know many, many, many foster families who would not accept placement of children IF they couldn't get them caught up on vaccinations because they view it as a risk to their own families. For immune compromised children, they are generally placed with families who have indicated a desire to be trained for medically fragile cases...these families are not the norm in the foster system. There is also something that must be said for the rights of the foster family as well. It is a crazy balancing act.

 

Given the high risk these children present for health issues, despite the fact that we were selective vaxers due to DD's life threatening reaction, I would not accept them as placements in my home without being able to bring them up to date on DTP, MMR, Polio, and in their case HEP as well because children who arrive in care for extreme neglect and or physical abuse are statistically much more likely to have also been sexually abused or exposed to needle drug users so the risk of Hep is much higher.

[gardenmom5]

That threat came from her, not me. Her recent (more vile, attacking) comments reminded me of her saying this. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned post-partum psychosis. It would not be the first time a parent hurt a child due to untreated mental illness.

 

Of course, this is neither an expectation or speculation, on my part, of what will happen. It is a thought that crossed my mind of a specific comment she made saying she'd burn herself up along with her children rather than have them taken.

 

this is bringing back mental images of josh powell (local) -  yeah, he had that sleazy vibe, his sleazy father (with whom he lived) had been busted for kiddie p*rn (and is back in court. hopefully he'll do more jail time), there was much speculation he'd murdered his wife,  but almost NO ONE ever thought he'd actually kill his children. but he slammed the door shut in the caseworkers face, hit the boys with a hatchet - and BLEW THE HOUSE UP.

 

however - he'd just been ordered to undergo mental health evaluations by the court.

[Renai]

this is bringing back mental images of josh powell (local) -  yeah, he had that sleazy vibe, his sleazy father (with whom he lived) had been busted for kiddie p*rn (and is back in court. hopefully he'll do more jail time), there was much speculation he'd murdered his wife,  but almost NO ONE ever thought he'd actually kill his children. but he slammed the door shut in the caseworkers face, hit the boys with a hatchet - and BLEW THE HOUSE UP.

 

however - he'd just been ordered to undergo mental health evaluations by the court.

This is actually the case I thought of as well when I first mentioned her threat.

[FaithManor]

Gardenmom, this is why I do think that this has to be considered. For those of you that haven't worked inside the system, you don't realize how serious mentally unstable people can be about killing their children vs. allowing them to be taken by the evil government.

 

She made the comment about burning the house down with the family in it. She posted it. Her rants are completely delusional. It's not particularly speculative to fear for the children should the parents run afoul of the authorities again.

[FaithManor]

That said, I hope and pray these children are safe. I want the parents to change. I want them to get up to some level of at least merely completely crappy so the children can be left because bouncing around in care does it's own kind of damage. I just in my heart kind of suspect that this is not going to happen.