Jump to content

Menu

Should BU withdraw the job offer?


MSNative
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have a relative at BU and this has been a big deal up there. I've been hearing a lot of student perspectives from my relative but am curious what the hive thinks. Should this professor keep her job? Would you send/not send your child to BU based on the school's response to this?

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/05/new_boston_university_professors_tweets_spark_racial_furor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tweets show her to be somewhat dysfunctional, I wouldn't expect fair or reasonable treatment from her, I wouldn't spend my hard earned money for my son to sit in her classroom. That said, I have a good idea of how she arrived at her feelings. She is entitled to her thoughts, but the bad judgment involved in her tweets makes her someone who should not be influencing young people.

  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, they should withdraw the job offer. "Racist" and "Sociology professor" is not a good combo. At first I thought her comments were satire, a kind of mirrored skewering of the comments you might hear a white supremacist making. Then I realized she's serious. No, this person should have no part in teaching sociology.

  • Like 14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Withdraw. She has effectively made any discussion of racial/ethnic experience competitive rather than an exercise in mutual understanding, which renders her classes moot.

 

Despite her lack of (general) institutional and structural power (which I agree with) she has positional power over her students.

 

Is she right? Probably in some observations, possibly in others. But she has a responsibility that comes with her position to express herself in constructive ways. I truly hope that the tweets (which are a tragically limited and limiting medium for comments on very complex ideas) were made in response to specific ideas/claims/whatever. Otherwise, she is in the wrong business.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is very interesting that (so far) BU has chosen to keep her, while making it clear that such statements are not appropriate. I read elsewhere that she had apologized. So BU seems to say that this is a person they can work with. I'll be interested to see how it plays out.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Withdraw. She has effectively made any discussion of racial/ethnic experience competitive rather than an exercise in mutual understanding, which renders her classes moot.

 

She's issuing challenges that are provocative- but "competitive"? I don't think acknowledging that there are white owned and black owned businesses is competitive, it's a pretty critical part of the job of an African American studies department.  And what "mutual understanding" look like here?

 

I'd want to investigate a bit. If she is a charismatic speaker who uses the "upset the apple cart" technique to foster discussion, she might be a real asset.  If she's a bull in a china shop who alienates for the sake of principle, she probably doesn't belong in a professor role.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it depends.  Does she grade everyone fairly, regardless of race?  She is teaching African American Studies.  Perhaps she is an excellent professor but doesn't express herself very well in 140 characters.  Or she could be an incredibly racist person who will never be a fair teacher.  I'd actually be more concerned about her tweets if she was to be teaching English or math or something everyone had to take.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know. It's not as simple as reversing the races.

 

Would one professor out of hundreds stop me from sending my kid to BU? Well, college would be their choice, not mine, but a couple of tweets from a random teacher would not be a blip on my radar.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know. It's not as simple as reversing the races.

 

Would one professor out of hundreds stop me from sending my kid to BU? Well, college would be their choice, not mine, but a couple of tweets from a random teacher would not be a blip on my radar.

 

While it's not as simple, what she's saying can have a profound effect upon how people view races and race relations.  If the crux of her course becomes "whites ARE the problem" and her students are taking that to heart, is that helping or hurting discussions/issues WRT race? Is she creating the foundation for situations on campus now and in the future where if something happens -- regardless of circumstances -- the answer is ALWAYS "it's the white person's fault, simply because they are white?"

 

I find blanket statements like those of this professor unhelpful to discourse.  Where does that leave interracial marriages?  Where does that leave blossoming friendships?  Essentially these types of statements come down to "us" vs. "them" -- one can't be a true friend to someone of a different race, because "whites are the problem."  One can't really support interracial marriage or adoption if "whites are the problem."  There can be no Allies to racial problems, because "whites are the problem."  It totally disregards the individual and lumps everyone who is white into one category on the basis of their skin color.  While I cannot possibly understand at a deep level the difficulties experienced by many of my friends (regardless of their race), I can empathize, I can share their pain, I can be there for them -- and I can learn and grow because of those interactions.

 

While she may be someone else's professor, she wields a lot of influence within her sphere -- and that sphere of influence is not isolated and does have ripple effects.  I'd like to know more of what is meant, and how she teaches.  But, my initial reaction isn't favorable -- because so many other things that fall on the "wrong" side of certain ideological issues far less divisive than race/gender have gotten profs canned, or passed over for tenure.

  • Like 19
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one who says that white males are a problem population or that "white masculinity is THE problem for American colleges" should be teaching at one.  If white masculinity is a problem, we should get rid of it, right?  How?  By getting rid of white men?  She's crazy.  I am appalled that her offer has not already been rescinded.

  • Like 14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would reverse the statements-- if BU would fire someone for making those same statements about another race, then I would do the same for this prof.

 

She teaches African American studies.   It is not a colorblind discipline and shouldn't be. 

 

Are you offended that there is an African American Studies department but not a  White Studies Department?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

University of Illinois is currently in a long, protracted lawsuit over withdrawing an offer to a professor who made some similar statements about Israel. I'm sure BU is looking at what happened there to determine what to do. 

 

FWIW, the U of I prof hasn't gotten a new job offer, which I find interesting.

 

Emily

 

ETA: U of Illinois link

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/08/06/u-illinois-apparently-revokes-job-offer-controversial-scholar

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one who says that white males are a problem population or that "white masculinity is THE problem for American colleges" should be teaching at one.  If white masculinity is a problem, we should get rid of it, right?  How?  By getting rid of white men?  She's crazy.  I am appalled that her offer has not already been rescinded.

 

I'm going to guess she was using the rhetorical technique of turning around commonly held beliefs.... here I'd assume she is talking about white males being a "problem population" as a response to the idea that black males are a problem population: 1 in 3 in prison at some point, 1 in 15 currently incarcerated; lowest high school and college graduation rates of any racial group; very low marriage rates compared to men of other demographics; etc.   Challenging assumptions and 'conventional wisdom' is something a lot of professors do.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know.  It offends me, but the reality is that these types have long been part of the fabric of our university system.  I personally know a college prof at a very prestigious school who actively works toward the destruction of our economy and of Christianity among other things.  Our tax money and the money of capitalists (students' rich parents and donors) are paying her salary.  And she hates us with a fiery passion.  Whatever.

 

I hate it.  But my kids will go to school wherever they choose and can afford to go.  They will be nearly adults then and entitled to their own decisions.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If that professor is ever trapped in a train wreck or other disaster, I hope she will "commit" herself to not being rescued by anyone reeking of "white masculinity" . 

 

(Last night I saw  an interview with a woman who survived the Amtrak crash.  She said her son had helped people get out of the wreckage.)

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  Perhaps she is an excellent professor but doesn't express herself very well in 140 characters.  

If this is the case, she also doesn't have the self-awareness to know that she doesn't express herself very well in that way.   

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

She's issuing challenges that are provocative- but "competitive"? I don't think acknowledging that there are white owned and black owned businesses is competitive, it's a pretty critical part of the job of an African American studies department. And what "mutual understanding" look like here?

 

I'd want to investigate a bit. If she is a charismatic speaker who uses the "upset the apple cart" technique to foster discussion, she might be a real asset. If she's a bull in a china shop who alienates for the sake of principle, she probably doesn't belong in a professor role.

Would you feel the same if a professor said repeatedly that the biggest problem in our society is that women were let out of the kitchen and into the workforce? Do you think female students would feel welcome and respected and a valuable part of the discussion?

  • Like 17
Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO (so please account for that), sociology is a field of study that requires "public neutrality", which allows for "private partiality". 

 

We read of college/university instructors in other fields insulting people just as baldly*.

 

(* not a typo)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO (so please account for that), sociology is a field of study that requires "public neutrality", which allows for "private partiality".

 

We read of college/university instructors in other fields insulting people just as baldly*.

 

(* not a typo)

Would you mind elaborating? I am sure I ought to get the reference but I dont.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would you mind elaborating? I am sure I ought to get the reference but I dont.

 

Reference?  I don't know for sure what you mean!

 

I placed an asterisk next to the word "baldly" in case anyone thought I had mistyped the word "badly".

 

As for professors and instructors in other fields openly insulting students and groups of people, instances are not difficult to locate via Internet research.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reference? I don't know for sure what you mean!

 

I placed an asterisk next to the word "baldly" in case anyone thought I had mistyped the word "badly".

 

As for professors and instructors in other fields openly insulting students and groups of people, instances are not difficult to locate via Internet research.

I totally misunderstood. I was busy Google searching for a professor who had insulted bald people. I thought there must have been some big kerfuffle that I had missed. Lol! Ok, off to brew some coffee. Clearly not a day to post without caffeine.
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

She teaches African American studies. It is not a colorblind discipline and shouldn't be.

 

Are you offended that there is an African American Studies department but not a White Studies Department?

There is a big difference between "not a colorblind discipline" and "overtly racist."

 

It appears that this particular professor has crossed the line into "overtly racist."

  • Like 19
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would you feel the same if a professor said repeatedly that the biggest problem in our society is that women were let out of the kitchen and into the workforce? Do you think female students would feel welcome and respected and a valuable part of the discussion?

:iagree:

 

I didn't get the impression that she was making some sort of intellectual challenge with her tweets. I just got the impression that she doesn't like white people.

 

I wouldn't want someone as a professor who posted that black masculinity was THE problem for America's colleges, or that Asian college males were a problem population, or that one week of every year she tried not to shop in stores owned by Hispanic people, so why would I want a professor who says those things about white people?

 

And as you already pointed out, if you substitute "women" for "white" in those tweets, people would be absolutely enraged.

  • Like 24
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And people here are scared to even ask what would happen if a white prof talked about a black male problem.

 

Which used to be said freely, decades ago, and the whole point of these programs in university should be to teach/reinforce that this kind of thinking is WRONG.

 

And also, how can someone so racist actually teach what racism is and how to fight it?  [Oh wait, black people can't be racist.  I forgot.]

  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to guess she was using the rhetorical technique of turning around commonly held beliefs.... here I'd assume she is talking about white males being a "problem population" as a response to the idea that black males are a problem population: 1 in 3 in prison at some point, 1 in 15 currently incarcerated; lowest high school and college graduation rates of any racial group; very low marriage rates compared to men of other demographics; etc.   Challenging assumptions and 'conventional wisdom' is something a lot of professors do.  

 

I seriously doubt that she took to Twitter to exercise advanced rhetorical techniques.  She condemns white men.  That is wrong, and BU and the academic community should not tacitly condone it by acting like her comments were deep and thoughtful and an invitation to dialogue when they were really just hateful.  

  • Like 14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to guess she was using the rhetorical technique of turning around commonly held beliefs.... here I'd assume she is talking about white males being a "problem population" as a response to the idea that black males are a problem population: 1 in 3 in prison at some point, 1 in 15 currently incarcerated; lowest high school and college graduation rates of any racial group; very low marriage rates compared to men of other demographics; etc.   Challenging assumptions and 'conventional wisdom' is something a lot of professors do.  

 

But you don't know.  You're guessing and assuming.  Maybe you are right - or maybe not.   Maybe she is just a racist.

 

Twitter simply isn't the best place to challenge assumptions and conventional wisdom about complex issues such as racism and "problem populations."   

 

And of course if a white professor talked about any other race being "problem populations," the job offer would be rescinded and that individual's teaching career would be over.   Certainly no one would be wringing their hands, trying to decide whether to rescind or not.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I am disgusted by the expansiveness of being politically correct, I agree this woman is overtly racist. She needs to find work in an underground mine where she will never be allowed to teach children or young people again......or lose her Twitter account whichever is easier.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I totally misunderstood. I was busy Google searching for a professor who had insulted bald people. I thought there must have been some big kerfuffle that I had missed. Lol! Ok, off to brew some coffee. Clearly not a day to post without caffeine.

 

:smilielol5:   [sorry!]   That's classic!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And people here are scared to even ask what would happen if a white prof talked about a black male problem.

 

Which used to be said freely, decades ago, and the whole point of these programs in university should be to teach/reinforce that this kind of thinking is WRONG.

 

And also, how can someone so racist actually teach what racism is and how to fight it?  [Oh wait, black people can't be racist.  I forgot.]

 

Did you go to college? I had many professors who talk about the black male problem quite a lot. Mostly white ones.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you don't know.  You're guessing and assuming.  Maybe you are right - or maybe not.   Maybe she is just a racist.

 

Twitter simply isn't the best place to challenge assumptions and conventional wisdom about complex issues such as racism and "problem populations."   

 

And of course if a white professor talked about any other race being "problem populations," the job offer would be rescinded and that individual's teaching career would be over.   Certainly no one would be wringing their hands, trying to decide whether to rescind or not.

 

Oh I agree I could be wrong, and I'm glad she apologized for the tweets.

 

I just wanted to point out some other possible interpretations instead of having a landslide of "what an idiot / racist". I did some AA studies classes and this kind of talk is not completely outside the realm of normal as a gauntlet to throw down as the start of a conversation.  Conversations that lead to interesting places that are much more nuanced and thought provoking than the opening  shot might suggest. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh I agree I could be wrong, and I'm glad she apologized for the tweets.

 

I just wanted to point out some other possible interpretations instead of having a landslide of "what an idiot / racist". I did some AA studies classes and this kind of talk is not completely outside the realm of normal as a gauntlet to throw down as the start of a conversation.  Conversations that lead to interesting places that are much more nuanced and thought provoking than the opening  shot might suggest. 

 

So are you OK with the double standard?  Because you know that would never fly in 2015 if the races were reversed.  Nobody would step back and say, "wait, let's see if there is something more nuanced here."

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So are you OK with the double standard?  Because you know that would never fly in 2015 if the races were reversed.  Nobody would step back and say, "wait, let's see if there is something more nuanced here."

Yes, I am OK with not having a false equivalency. I think most people are, most of the time.  How often has Obama been introduced as our first black president? How often was George Bush introduced as our forty third white president?

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh I agree I could be wrong, and I'm glad she apologized for the tweets.

 

I just wanted to point out some other possible interpretations instead of having a landslide of "what an idiot / racist". I did some AA studies classes and this kind of talk is not completely outside the realm of normal as a gauntlet to throw down as the start of a conversation. Conversations that lead to interesting places that are much more nuanced and thought provoking than the opening shot might suggest.

To be clear, she only apologized for her speaking indelicately not for the racist content of the tweets. And should apologizing make it all ok? Towson fired a white prof who apologized profusely for using a racial slur. His apology didn't absolve him.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-03-03/news/bal-md.towson03mar03_1_racial-slur-deverick-murray-marina-cooper

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But there could always be something "much more nuanced and thought provoking" in the statement "this country's problem is black males."  Couldn't there?  Let's not be closed-minded.

 

The point of "upset the apple cart" comments is to provoke new ways of thinking.

 

Her most controversial tweet was:

Why is white america so reluctant to identify white college males as a problem population?

 

Here are two student responses to it, from wbur.com (a public radio site):

 

From a freshman:

“The thing that startled me was all these white males suddenly being worried about a professor grading them unfairly because of how they look,†Sayed said. “I wear a hijab. I’m Muslim. I’ve had professors insinuate before that I was not able to be objective because of my religion, which is really insulting. I’m in biological anthropology, which relies heavily on evolution, and the stereotype is that religious people don’t care about evolution, or hate evolution. And so I’ve had certain people insinuate that I was unable to grasp science.â€

 

From a senior:

“When I first came to BU, I had culture shock, because I’m from Atlanta, and so I had never been around so many white people in my whole life,†said Russell. “That was crazy for me. Everyone looking like me was a far-out experience, and I was really uncomfortable for awhile, ’cause it’s just not what I was used to.â€

 

So for those two, they responded positively to it.  Not because they hate white males, but because her comment prompted conversations.

 

Saying "black males are a problem population" would not prompt similar conversations, I don't think, since it is not challenging cultural expectations in the same manner.  I could be wrong. But I think it's, as I said before, a false equivalence.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting to read some of her other tweets:  http://socawlege.com/boston-university-assistant-professor-saida-grundy-attacks-whites-makes-false-statements-on-twitter/

 

Her CV lists teaching experience, including an Intro to LGBTQ course.  But according to her tweets, she only supported Bruce Jenner until she found out about the Republican part.   

 

What was the title of her doctoral dissertation, does anyone know? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting to read some of her other tweets: http://socawlege.com/boston-university-assistant-professor-saida-grundy-attacks-whites-makes-false-statements-on-twitter/

 

Her CV lists teaching experience, including an Intro to LGBTQ course. But according to her tweets, she only supported Bruce Jenner until she found out about the Republican part.

 

What was the title of her doctoral dissertation, does anyone know?

"Dissertation Title

The Makings of Men: Masculinity and Culture in the Institutionalization of Middle Class Back (sic) Men". The site I got this from was full of typos but it had the other info correct so I assume this is correct.

Eta: this is the site. http://www.lsa.umich.edu/soc/people/graduatestudents/onthejobmarket/ci.grundysaida_ci.detail

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So are you OK with the double standard? Because you know that would never fly in 2015 if the races were reversed. Nobody would step back and say, "wait, let's see if there is something more nuanced here."

:lol:

 

Cranberry sauce just came out my nose.

 

Sweet Mother of Jellied Condiments, it burns...

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why shouldn't there be ?

I would agree, if we lived in a post racial world, but we patently don't.

Holding those without systemic power to the same verbal analysis as those with systemic power, is just another way of reinforcing privilege, imo.

 

Because the whole issue with racism or sexism is lumping together, characterizing, and judging an entire group based on stereotypes.

Judging a person based on his skin color is racism. It is fundamentally racist, no matter whether that race is privileged or not -  just like judging people based on their gender is fundamentally sexist.

 

Pronouncing all people of a certain race and gender a "problem" is both racist and sexist.

The fact that this happens to be the privileged race/gender does not change this.

  • Like 28
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that it is not as simple as reversing the races, but I think her tweets show extremely poor judgment.

 

While her anger at racism can't be compared to hate for the oppressed, the blanket judgment and thoughtless rudeness can be compared.

 

"white masculinity is THE problem for America’s colleges"  No, violence and unequal power are the problem. We can't just reverse the roles. 

 

"white college males a problem population" We don't have problem people, we have problem attitudes.

 

Both of these statements are deeply offensive to me. I work every day with people working on these issues. It would be fine with me if she said, "White males are, for their class and ability, the most privileged people in the country." Because they are. HOWEVER that does not mean they are a problem population. We have a structural problem and demeaning people is not the solution. The solution is to raise awareness and move power around by exposing inequality. Not trashing human beings. And I don't think that's appropriate behavior from a college professor.

 

That said, ya know what? If we fired every racist professor who made racist claims in the classroom, we'd have some openings in higher ed. Most of them are just too inept or perhaps cautious to put it on social media.

 

She did apologize.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a very simplistic version of racism. 

 

I do agree she should have differentiated her tweet to describe her target population as 'white, wealthy, heterosexual men'.

 

As a population, not as individuals, this particular group is the most privileged of the privileged and yes, responsible for reinforcing that privilege globally as a population, to the detriment of others ( including white working class men ).

It would not surprise me to find that this particular population DOES cause the greatest problems on campus. 

If they, as a population, were working on dismantling their privilege so it could be more easily shared, I'd have more sympathy for their hurt feelings, but it's abundantly clear that as a population, they are not.

I think it's a problem that we surmise from her tweets that she is speaking about individuals, when she is clearly talking about populations. 

 

She specifically talks about "THE" problem of colleges and white "masculinity"- not about the privilege of white population. She does not mention "wealthy". She said:

 

white masculinity is THE problem of America's colleges

 

Excuse me, but I can think of many serious problems of America's colleges: cost, underfunding, unprepared students, adjuncts instead of tenured faculty... white masculinity does not register on the scale of severe issues that plague this country's higher education - unless you are in a discipline that dwells on racial issues and views everything through this lens.

I am not sure what she even means by white masculinity as opposed to white males...

 

Not to mention that I would expect a university professor to be capable to express her views without resorting to expletives.

  • Like 16
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...