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I am planning for my fifth grader, who is fairly strong in language arts.  He will have finished First Language Lessons 4, MCT Island Level, and also WWE4.  I plan to use VIE for the grammar, usage and mechanics and NOT the writing.  My overall 5th grade grammar & writing plan involves: working through MCT Paragraph level; writing across the curriculum for a while; partway through the year picking up with an alternating schedule of Writing With Skill and Classical Writing Homer. 

 

Would y'all suggest VIE 6, since Rod and Staff 6 is recommended after FLL4?  I want to keep him challenged but not frustrated, and don't want to skip things. 

 

thanks in advance :)

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If he's strong in Language Arts, I think he could handle VIE 6. DS11 is using VIE 6 as well - just the grammar portion.

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sagira, thanks so much for that helpful reply!  I was leaning toward 6 b/c Susan Wise Bauer suggested Rod & Staff 6 for 5th grade after the First Language Lessons, but was nervous about overreaching. 

 

I am also encouraged that you are using it for the grammar only; I rang Rainbow Resource to ask about which version and the person I spoke to felt, very strongly, that to use VIE for just grammar would be a waste of money; but I think the child would really not like Rod & Staff at all, and couldn't find anything else that suited our goals.  

 

thanks again!

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...Susan Wise Bauer suggested Rod & Staff 6 for 5th grade after the First Language Lessons...

 

She did?  Was this in TWTM or somewhere else?  Do you know where I can read/hear SWB's advice on this?  This would be such great news as I've got a dc finishing up FLL4 as well.  She's older, but we had to backtrack due to lack of grammar in school before homeschooling, so it would be a big confidence booster to be able to skip a level.

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Glad I could help :) It helps that I got the older edition - 2006. This made it a tad more inexpensive, plus the fact that I only ordered the student edition. Languages are my strong suit, including English.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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She did?  Was this in TWTM or somewhere else?  Do you know where I can read/hear SWB's advice on this?  This would be such great news as I've got a dc finishing up FLL4 as well.  She's older, but we had to backtrack due to lack of grammar in school before homeschooling, so it would be a big confidence booster to be able to skip a level.

 

I just checked the library's 3rd edition WTM & didn't find this anywhere. I have the original WTM, but FLL wasn't out yet.

Perhaps it is in one of her audio lectures?

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She did?  Was this in TWTM or somewhere else?  Do you know where I can read/hear SWB's advice on this?  This would be such great news as I've got a dc finishing up FLL4 as well.  She's older, but we had to backtrack due to lack of grammar in school before homeschooling, so it would be a big confidence booster to be able to skip a level.

 

 

I just checked the library's 3rd edition WTM & didn't find this anywhere. I have the original WTM, but FLL wasn't out yet.

Perhaps it is in one of her audio lectures?

 

Now that I'm looking, I can't find the particular recommendation for R&S 6 either: it is possible I just invented that part.  Will try to hunt more later. WTM boardies often recommend moving into R&S 6 after FLL4, as opposed to R&S 5, but that advice is probably not unanimous. 

 

In her lecture on writing in the middle grades, and also in the Logic stage Grammar section of the 3rd edition WTM, she recommends Rod & Staff as her first choice ("most thorough" is what the books says, p. 341 of my copy) for Logic grammar.  In her lecture she suggests to skip the writing in favor of the writing program she outlines (that's my understanding, at least) but the book says that the R&S writing exercises are "well-constructed writing exercises that teach sentence construction, paragraph development, outlining, and writing short essays from outlines". 

 

Voyages in English is her second cholce: "not quite as thorough as Rod and Staff, and the writing exercises are not as strong in building expository writing skills."  The lecture and book both say to NOT do the ViE writing exercises but use SWB's plan or another curriculum.  Shurley English comes a distant third and is suggested if you have trouble teaching grammar with a textbook and would benefit from scripted lessons.  For Shurley, the writing portion should be substituted with something else and outlining and diagramming should be added. 

 

HTH. 

 

ETA: in the Grammar/Elementary stage Grammar section of my edition SWB does say that you can transition from FLL into R&S at grade level. 

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okay, have hunted down some "which R&S after FLL" threads ...

 

Which R&S to use after First Language Lessons

What to do after First Language Lessons -- not thrilled with Rod & Staff  (this has a suggestion to bump a bored child up to R&S 6)

Answering Questions about Advanced Language Lessons -- this should link to post 106, in which SWB explains that ALL has become unworkable and discusses alternatives.  As I read her post it does seem she assumes you will be stepping into R&S 5.  OTOH there's a lot of wiggle room implied, I think, depending on child & teacher.  That post also has a critique of R&S which is a handy extension of what's in the WTM book. 

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sagira, thanks so much for that helpful reply!  I was leaning toward 6 b/c Susan Wise Bauer suggested Rod & Staff 6 for 5th grade after the First Language Lessons, but was nervous about overreaching. 

 

I am also encouraged that you are using it for the grammar only; I rang Rainbow Resource to ask about which version and the person I spoke to felt, very strongly, that to use VIE for just grammar would be a waste of money; but I think the child would really not like Rod & Staff at all, and couldn't find anything else that suited our goals.  

 

thanks again!

 

 

We use VIE and really like it. Because it spirals around to review grammar concepts each year I'd say you could easily do VIE 6 for 5th grade if your student has not struggled with grammar up until now. On the other hand it's a pretty rigorous program and I don't think VIE 5 would be boring either. 

 

We use VIE without using the composition aspect and I've found it very good, the rainbow resource person is silly ;) It's a good, solid program and at least the 2nd grade one is pretty fun and colorful. My 7 year old does grammar over other subjects still so I see that as a success. I agree with SWB that the composition exercises in any grammar book are random and not age appropriate (like asking 6 year olds to write a whole 1 page research report....why????). 

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