Latest edition of the Mommy Wars-Article for discussion: report it if we see kids left alone?

[Catherine]

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/19/what_a_horrible_mother_moms_arrested_for_leaving_their_kids_in_the_car/

 

I find the entire phenomenon of calling the police when kids are left alone, in cars, in a park, or whatever, to be amazing, shocking, but most of all, sad.  I guess I think-if you see a child alone playing or in a car, and are concerned about his or her welfare, you can choose to call the police, or, you can choose to watch them yourself.  It seems like such a total breakdown of community to criminalize these situations. I feel like criminalizing these acts is a further step away from a shared sense of responsibility for our children, and toward a kind of extreme individualism that sees any child away from its parents as a potential victim, about to be preyed upon, and sees the parents who are not physically with their child every moment of the day as neglectful.  It just naturally leads to more judgement of parents, particularly moms. 

 

One line of the article that made a strong impression on me:

 

"The solitude of raising kids outside of strong communities can be crushing; and left to ourselves, we all become worse parents than we hoped to be." 

 

For me, that statement captures the essence of the situation.  We are basically raising children in a highly artificial environment where moms are often alone with their offspring for many hours of the day, day after day. I don't think that is healthy for mothers or children.  OTOH, once you have coped with that kind of pressure and isolation for years, you might find it tempting to pass judgement on someone else who has chosen an less difficult path for themselves and their children.  At least, that is how I remember feeling when I was the mother of young children.  The temptation to judge other mothers who used more day care than I did was strong, because I felt I had given up something that they had not chosen to give up.

 

 

[Anne in CA]

The level of judgment used against these women is quite sad.

[Trish]

Trying to think of a name for this type of non-helpfulness.

 

It Takes A Vigilante?

 

It Takes A Voyeur?

 

It Takes a Vindictive Busybody?

 

On the other hand if it is in the eighties or above and the kid is stuck in a car...

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's a tough call sometimes.  I haven't ever felt the need to call. 

 

Speaking of which.  Once, many years ago, I sent my older kid to return books in the library while I sat in the car with my younger kid.  Some older woman came over to my car as she walked by and looked into my car at my younger kid.  I then asked her if I could help her with something.  She just walked away.  But holy heck.  She came out of nowhere out of her way and was looking in my car. 

 

 

[Rivka]

I thought this was a really good article about these issues of parenting surveillance and judgment:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-13/seven-reasons-we-hate-free-range-parenting

 

This part seems particularly apt:

 

When it comes to safety, overprotective parents are in effect taking out a sort of regret insurance. Every community has what you might call "generally accepted child-rearing practices," the parenting equivalent of "generally accepted accounting principles." These principles define what is good parenting and provide a sort of mental safe harbor in the event of an accident. If you do those things and your kid gets hurt -- well, you'll still wish that you'd asked them to stay home and help bake cookies, or lingered a little longer at the drugstore, or something so that they weren't around when the Bad Thing happened. But if you break them and your kid gets hurt, you -- and a lot of other people -- will feel that it happened because you were a bad parent. So you follow the GACP.

 

Over time, these rules get set by the most risk-averse parent in your social group, because if anything happens, you'll wish you had acted like them. This does not mean that the kids are actually safer: Parents in most places "shelter" their kids from risk by strapping them into cars and driving them to supervised activities, which is more dangerous than almost anything those kids could have gotten up to at home.

 

 

I live in a neighborhood where the GACP is that children play outside without a parent at young ages. I actually have no fear or guilt about deciding, this summer, that my six-year-old is old enough to ride his scooter around the block without his big sister or a parent, because I know it's a generally accepted practice. I know there will be other kids out and about. I know that it will raise zero eyebrows in the neighborhood and will absolutely not result in a CPS call. Colin knows - as all the neighborhood kids do - that he's not to go inside anyone's house or car without explicit parental permission. That's part of the GACP too.

 

I am well aware, though, that there are other neighborhoods in which a six-year-old riding his scooter alone would freak people out. I know there are people on this forum who would never let their six-year-old do what I let Colin do, and who are thinking right now about all the terrible things that could happen to him and how guilty I would feel if one of them occurred. Are those neighborhoods actually  more dangerous? Or is it just a difference in neighborhood culture?

 

I can see this from the other side, too. There are apparently a lot of cultures and communities in America in which, when a kid gets hold of a parent's gun and shoots himself or someone else, it's considered a tragic accident that's nobody's fault. No one is charged with a crime or with child neglect. It's something awful that just happens, like a car accident. In those communities, having guns accessible to little kids is part of GACP. To me, that's insane. In those communities, it isn't.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Walmart has a sign that says something about not forgetting to check the backseat of your car to make sure you didn't forget your kid.  Um..really how does one forget their kid?!  I suppose that's a friendlier way of putting it, but kinda silly too.

 

 

[73349]

Walmart has a sign that says something about not forgetting to check the backseat of your car to make sure you didn't forget your kid.  Um..really how does one forget their kid?!  I suppose that's a friendlier way of putting it, but kinda silly too.

 

If it didn't happen to a few kids every summer, there wouldn't be a sign. :/

[DawnM]

Walmart has a sign that says something about not forgetting to check the backseat of your car to make sure you didn't forget your kid.  Um..really how does one forget their kid?!  I suppose that's a friendlier way of putting it, but kinda silly too.

 

 

But it does happen!  If a sign can get just one person to realize they left their baby in the car, then it is worth it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

If it didn't happen to a few kids every summer, there wouldn't be a sign. :/

 

But are they forgetting?  Or they are leaving the kid there? 

 

I can't fathom how one could forget their kid in that situation.  I can imagine it in others, but not really that one.

[SKL]

But are they forgetting?  Or they are leaving the kid there? 

 

I can't fathom how one could forget their kid in that situation.  I can imagine it in others, but not really that one.

 

Usually it happens when the kid is with someone who usually doesn't have him at that time of day.  People do most repetitive things on "automatic pilot" and can forget that something is different today.

 

It never happens to me because I'm almost always with my kids when I go out in the car.  :P

 

But a person who remembers her kid is in the car is not going to let him bake to death.  Unless s/he's a cold-blooded murderer.

[Carol in Cal.]

It is really instructive to read memoirs from years ago.

 

"The Family Nobody Wanted" takes place in the Booneville area of California, decades ago (1950's or earlier).  A mother describes letting her 18 month old 'go outside to play' and being exasperated when he comes back missing a shoe, and escorts her to a large open meadow where they hunt for it but never find it (expensive!).  This is so absolutely inconceivable to me, but it bespeaks certain other changes between then and now.  For one thing, traffic cannot possibly have been as fast or as dangerous.  For another, families must have watched out for each other's children to a large extent.  Most definitely, many families must have had their children running around outside, not necessarily together, but not completely alone either.  And lastly, there must not have been predators allowed in the vicinity of towns--no mountain lions, for instance.

 

By contrast, by the time my DD was old enough to trust to walk to the store and back home alone, there were NO OTHER KIDS her own age who regularly did that, and even though I knew she was ready and that it would be good for her, I also knew that the singularly and loneliness of her doing this would make her into a target.  So I had to look for other opportunities to let her go off without us.  I'm sure I'm not alone in that, hence the popularity of shopping malls, movie theaters, and amusement parks as places to let kids test their free range wings.  Unfortunately, this leads to shopping or intense entertainment as being seen as the main ways to occupy your time as an adult, which is both artificial and expensive.

[MBM]

A police officer came over to my car while I was parked in front of the Escada store near Michigan Avenue in Chicago. He wanted to make sure my baby was okay and someone was with him. I was sitting in the back with my then-infant and could easily be seen.

 

Later we moved to one of the safest suburbs in Chicago and my husband, son (about 11 or 12 at the time) and I were walking at a nearby park. Our son had skipped ahead of us but was maybe 40 feet away and we could see him. A neighbor of ours, a physician, came over to my husband and me and aggressively asked where our son was. Hello? He was right in front of us. I never allowed my son to walk or bike alone or be alone at home until he was over 14, the legal age to leave a child alone in Illinois. I was worried about my nasty neighbors, not predators. Interestingly, the legal age to babysit children here is 11.

 

We had a much easier time in the city with our two older kids. They even walked the dog by themselves sometimes.

 

What I don't understand is why is it okay to allow a child to walk home alone from school and then stay in an empty house for a few hours but it's not okay to allow a child to play alone? A predator could easily figure out which kids walk home alone and learn their schedules.

 

[happypamama]

But are they forgetting? Or they are leaving the kid there?

 

I can't fathom how one could forget their kid in that situation. I can imagine it in others, but not really that one.

If you don't normally run errands with a child, I could see how it happens. Dad takes toddler out for the day to give Mom a break. They end up stopping at WalMart after a few hours. Toddler is asleep and rear facing. Dad forgets toddler because his muscle memory is "turn off car, undo seatbelt, get out of car." I can't imagine forgetting a child because my muscle memory has "go around to kids' door" in it, and also because I usually have all five with me, but I can see how it could happen.

 

But maybe people also feel okay letting their kids sit in the car at WM, and WM is using the sign as a more subtle reminder not to do that.

[Alice]

There was yet another story in the Washington Post recently about the Meitiv family. What caught my attention was a part at the end about a family in SE DC, which is arguably much less "safe" than the neighborhood that the Meitivs live in. 

 

Part is quoted below. Full story here:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/free-range-flap-in-maryland-fans-flames-of-national-debate-on-parenting/2015/04/18/ebc10248-e47e-11e4-81ea-0649268f729e_story.html

 

“My neighbors would look out for my kids,†Tucker said. “No one was judging me, because they knew I was trying to get back on my feet.†One neighbor often sat on her front porch and made sure the kids got off the bus at 3:45 and home safely, Tucker said.

Kids walk to and from the park on their own all the time. “How else are they going to get around?†Tucker said. “Parents teach their kids to hold hands, to cross at the light and to be safe.†As her kids later attended neighborhood schools, Tucker said she in turn looked out for other unattended children. “The family next door, the parents have to work late. So we all take care of that baby,†she said, using a term of endearment for the girl, who is now 14. “That’s how we do in Southeast. I have a lot of pride about how we stick together.â€

It struck me that most of us who live in "good" neighborhoods don't have that same kind of community involvement and instead are so busy judging each other. 

[SKL]

Anyone who really cares about a child's well-being should study how it hurts a child to create a disruption in custody, or the fear of same in the family.

 

There are so many better options than calling 911 when you just "suspect" something isn't right.  Go up to the parent or kid and interact.  Get the parent's phone number and call it.  Wait by the car for a few minutes to see if the parent returns quickly.  And unless the sun is scorching down into the car, how about MYOB.

 

I had an incident which I ranted about on here in August of 2013.  I had had a busy day, other people made decisions that screwed up my plans, and I was in a hurry.  Come 8:30pm I had a prepared FedEx envelope to drop off at the FedEx store, and then I needed to get to the library to renew some books before they closed at 9pm.  I left my 2nd grade daughters locked in the car for exactly 2.5 minutes in the mild sunset.  When I got out, there was already a cop blocking my car.  When I posted on here, some people thought I was probably lying about the 2.5 minutes.  Nobody would call the cops that fast.  But yes they did.  Several people also decided that it was right to call the cops because of all the things that could have happened in those 2.5 minutes.  Kidnapping and child molestation!  The car could spontaneously kick into gear (though I had the keys)!  I might not have known how hot it was!  The kids could strangle themselves on their seatbelt or in the (mechanically operated) window!  You just never know!  Bad horrible mom!  It was unreal.  And things seem to be getting worse rather than better.  The thing is, if the concerned citizen had really cared that much about my kids, she could have called out to me and said something, and I would have said, "I'm just dropping off a FedEx, be right back."  Or I could have dragged the kids into the FedEx store if the person couldn't accept that.  I would have been irritated but my kids would not have been in danger of being snatched by the cops / CPS.

 

Of course the one thing that did not matter to anyone was the kids' actual well-being.  Therefore I call BS on anyone saying "I was concerned for the child."  There are too many better ways of showing concern for a child than harassing a parent and potentially disrupting custody.

[sunflowerlady]

I saw a sign at Walmart too. I didn't thoroughly read it, but it mentioned pets or "vulnerable persons" being left in cars.  In my quick glance, it seemed to be including elderly people.

 

I can't say for certain, but I think it mentioned reporting if you see this.

 

Next time I am there, I will read it closer.

 

Now, we are in FL, and going forward into hot summer weather, so it is a concern.

 

 

[T'smom]

If I saw kids in a car, I would probably wait around for a few minutes and see if someone came back. It would take awhile though, for me to call the cops. Definitely more than15 minutes. If I saw kids outside, I wouldn't think twice about it. I let my 4 and 7 year olds play outside by themselves all the time. And our backyard is not totally fenced. (Though the layout of the neighborhood means it is very private back there. I do let them ride bikes and scooters down the driveway (medium long) and back. There are always LOTS of people walking/running by our house. We live near the schools and the athletic teams run by every afternoon. Tons of people walk their dogs, or jog, etc. so they see my kids in the driveway.

 

ETA: I can hardly imagine noticing if kids are left in the car alone. I have my hands full with three kids, so I'm not exactly looking into car windows!

[imagine.more]

Anyone who really cares about a child's well-being should study how it hurts a child to create a disruption in custody, or the fear of same in the family.

 

......  There are too many better ways of showing concern for a child than harassing a parent and potentially disrupting custody.

 

I completely agree. My oldest daughter needed to be taken by CPS due to several issues with her birth family, it was clearly an unsafe environment, and yet I still get surprised about how traumatized she is by the being taken, not by her circumstances before she was taken. She is terrified of police and visibly shakes when a cop car comes by. An animal control officer came by to check on our chickens once because they were new and she was just so shaken up by it, she said she thought he was coming to take her. To subject a child to that for anything short of clear and obvious abuse/neglect is ridiculous. Letting an 8 year old stay in the car for a few minutes (or even half an hour for that matter!) is not obvious abuse or neglect. And I say "letting them stay" vs "leaving" because "leaving" suggests the kid doesn't have legs or is locked against their will in the car. What 8 year old isn't capable of opening a door or window? What 8 year old isn't capable of deciding if they would rather hang out in the car with a book on a nice day vs trail after mom on a boring shopping trip. 

 

When my sister and I were little our mom (super over-protective, had a reputation for being so) would let us stay in the car at gas stations (before credit cards could be swiped at the pump) at 4 and 5 years old. By 8-9 we would opt to hang out in the car instead of following along on boring shopping trips for up to 30-45 minutes. We'd read books, play our game boys, goof off, whatever. The door was locked and we knew not to open it for strangers. Nobody ever even looked in like they were concerned, it wouldn't have been on anyone's radar in the 80's and early 90's. 

 

What do people really think is going to happen in a car? And if they think the parent genuinely forgot their baby/toddler in the car (it can happen when the plan changes last minute or the baby is asleep and the parent forgets they brought them) then why would they call the cops? If you think a parent genuinely forgot or genuinely made an error in misjudging the weather or the child's ability to behave then my logical choice would be to watch for a few minutes, then if I was really worried go into the store and ask a manager to call up the owner of the blue sedan or whatever and tell the parent discretely that you noticed the child in the car and were concerned they might have forgotten or that it was too hot or that the child was acting up, etc. Then if it was an honest mistake the parent goes and gets the child and child is safe and with their good but scatter-brained parent ;) If it was an error in judgement the parent  goes and gets the child and child is safe and the parent knows that maybe they need to be more careful. If you misjudged and the parent assures you that their child is not 4, they're just a short 11 year old then you laugh and apologize and say have a nice day, knowing the child is safe and fine to be in a car on their own for a bit. Really, does anyone think a parent who lets a kid hang out in a car for a few minutes is automatically a dangerous parent all around? Or that police are required to make even the slightest adjustment in other people's behaviors? 

 

No, save CPS for the child who is barefoot and begging for food every day during school hours or coming to school with bruises. Save the police for people who are obviously breaking into a house or selling drugs on the street. If we criminalize minor mistakes we take some of the stigma away from the true crimes. And calling CPS should always be weighed like this: "Is this overall home situation potentially more dangerous than the trauma of being dragged off screaming and crying from home by strange policemen."

[Χά�ων]

nm 

 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Susan Wise Bauer
This seems to cross the line into personal attack.

[momacacia]

I have to admit I've started to worry about this. I left 10yo in care with my 2 younger ones at WF to run in and get one thing for a sick kid. I parked as close to the front of store as I could so I was right next to a handicap spot. My thought was, "What if some busybody old lady parks next to us and calls us in?"

 

A window was cracked (it was 60 degrees out), my oldest is smart and paranoid/safety conscious and they are under instructions to stay in their seats and not draw attention to themselves (this means 6yo can't sing at top of her lungs to irritate oldest). I just didn't want to drag three kids in the store with my pregnant self to get one thing. :-/ But now I think more about the busybody than the kidnapper when I leave them.

[creekland]

Every time I read things on this topic I find myself glad that we chose to live in an area where the village still watches its children collectively rather than an "Every family for themselves, but keep up to my standards" mentality.

 

I've never called the authorities about a child. I have watched out for kids though.

 

In school I have seen to it that some situations get looked into when I've felt there's been just cause, but that's different than pure hysteria IMO.  I've yet to be incorrect with a school situation.  I'm not sure if that's good or bad.  I think it's just life - and part of the village looking out for our children.  Fortunately, these situations are rare comparatively.

[LucyStoner]

Walmart has a sign that says something about not forgetting to check the backseat of your car to make sure you didn't forget your kid. Um..really how does one forget their kid?! I suppose that's a friendlier way of putting it, but kinda silly too.

I've done it. Once. On a chilly day with a new infant in a very stressful life situation which I was coming home with a kid who I didn't leave with and when I was functioning on massively insufficient sleep. Nothing bad happened since it was chilly. He just slept until I remembered him in a panic. But it taught me to never say it could never happen to me. It can and does happen to very attentive and loving parents every year.

[happypamama]

Every time I read things on this topic I find myself glad that we chose to live in an area where the village still watches its children collectively rather than an "Every family for themselves, but keep up to my standards" mentality.

 

I've never called the authorities about a child. I have watched out for kids though.

 

In school I have seen to it that some situations get looked into when I've felt there's been just cause, but that's different than pure hysteria IMO. I've yet to be incorrect with a school situation. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I think it's just life - and part of the village looking out for our children. Fortunately, these situations are rare comparatively.

I hope this is the case, and yet, I'm still super cautious when it comes to my children, even here. :). (I think part of it is because, being homeschoolers, we are already a little on the fringe, and it only takes one busybody to make trouble. So I very often will not leave my children alone, even though I think they'd be fine; it's not them I worry about, but the busybodies.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

I've done it. Once. On a chilly day with a new infant in a very stressful life situation which I was coming home with a kid who I didn't leave with and when I was functioning on massively insufficient sleep. Nothing bad happened since it was chilly. He just slept until I remembered him in a panic. But it taught me to never say it could never happen to me. It can and does happen to very attentive and loving parents every year.

 

I must have had very loud babies.  They wouldn't have let me forget.  LOL

 

But yes you are right about forgetting when one is running on no sleep.  I don't miss those days!

[LucyStoner]

I must have had very loud babies. They wouldn't have let me forget. LOL

 

But yes you are right about forgetting when one is running on no sleep. I don't miss those days!

Yeah, this was my sleep like a log, needs to be roused to eat newborn. I'd been at the hospital with my mom all day. My dad came and dropped off my infant with me because he needed to eat but he kept my then 5 year old. I finally decided to drive home with my infant to get some much needed sleep (pairing end of life care plus newborn care plus PPD was a really bad but unavoidable mix.) I was just so greatful to be heading for my own sleep. I don't know how long I left him but it was way more than a few minutes. I woke up on the couch in a start. Had it been a hot day, it could have been a tragedy and yes I would hope that someone would have called the police or smashed my car window rather than him die. Also, I am glad he was breastfed because I think my breasts being full and uncomfortable was one reason I woke up. I don't think I have ever run faster.

[OneStepAtATime]

Things get really, really hot where I live.  Really hot.  If I saw a child strapped in a car seat with the windows rolled up here, I would definitely feel obligated to wait around a couple of minutes and if no one came I would have to notify security for the health and well being of the child.  That being said, I remember being left in the car as an older elementary kid without issue.  I was old enough and mature enough to get myself out of the car if I needed to but would not do so just to wander around in a dangerous parking lot.  I've left the kids in the car while I dropped something off.  Again, though, not until they were older.  The heat factor here with a closed up car is definitely life threatening.  I would have to feel like we were in an area I could leave the windows down.

 

As to accidentally leaving a baby or toddler, yes I agree, I actually CAN see that happening.  As mentioned upthread, if it is someone not used to having the child at that time of day, routine is out of whack, they are tired, focused on an issue, etc. and are planning to just run in, kid is asleep, they go into automatic pilot mode.

 

I also agree extreme sleep deprivation can make you all kinds of wonky.  I forgot who I was and who my baby was on two separate occasion when DD was a baby.  Extreme sleep deprivation (new baby, running a business from home, responsible for my great aunt's medical care, etc.).  Thankfully, I wasn't driving much, but I was driving.  DH was in another state, I had no immediate family readily available to help and we had just moved recently so we didn't really know any neighbors.  I could easily see how, in that poor mental state, I might have left DD.  And I was so sleep deprived I was no longer capable of recognizing just how dangerous the situation could have ended up being.  I should have pushed hard and gotten some help.  I was too sleep deprived to recognize that fact.  I worked really, really hard to be a good mother.  I cared deeply.  But I might still have left her because my mind was not functioning on all cylinders.  Terrifying thought, but there you go. 

[milovany]

I've done it. Once. On a chilly day with a new infant in a very stressful life situation which I was coming home with a kid who I didn't leave with and when I was functioning on massively insufficient sleep. Nothing bad happened since it was chilly. He just slept until I remembered him in a panic. But it taught me to never say it could never happen to me. It can and does happen to very attentive and loving parents every year.

 

Absolutely.  I've done it too.  My 2yo daughter fell asleep in her carseat while I drove to town from a campground while we were on vacation.  In the 12 minutes it took to get to the store, I'd forgotten she was there because I had some things on my mind, she was quiet, and we were not in our usual routine.  When I came out, after moseying around the store for 10-15 minutes, and saw her sleeping in her carseat, I pretty much collapsed into the front seat of the van in tears -- and then I glanced around to see if anyone was watching or had called on me (thankfully not). It's completely possible to forget your child is with you even if you're a great, attentive parent. 

[Joker]

I have no issue and do nothing when I see older kids in cars (even if there are also younger ones). I don't understand leaving babies/toddlers strapped in carseats in the car alone, though. If I see it, I wait a few minutes and if no one shows I tell a store manager so they can continue waiting, page using the plate, or call police.

 

ETA: As far as children playing outside goes, there are all ages here and no one has ever called police. We often have young ones at our playground with and without parents. I've never thought anything of it.

[rwilk]

A few comments:  Regarding just staying to watch to make sure the child is ok--it's a whole lot different for a man than for a woman. If my husband were to see something disconcerting, he can't just stay and watch the car. People will assume he's sketchy, or has bad motives.  A woman (esp one with a small kid) can watch out.  A man, not so much.

 

Regarding the safety of leaving a child alone in a car: Yesterday in our area a car was stolen. The thief didn't realize there was a young child in the car, and an amber alert was issued.  The child ended up fine, but it was still a scary experience for everyone I'm sure. 

 

All this being said, I regularly see kids in my neighborhood walking around unsupervised, with no parents in sight.  I couldn't imagine calling the police, unless they were doing something that seemed inappropriately dangerous. I've seen kids as young as 1st grade age walk a block or so alone.  Mostly the kids have better safety sense than adults---very careful when crossing streets, using sidewalks and the like. 

 

I guess the summary is this---context matters.  Generally I trust a child's parents to know the correct limits, but if I saw something that indicated a child was in clear danger, I wouldn't hesitate to act. 

[Tanaqui]

I don't understand leaving toddlers strapped in carseats in the car alone, though.

 

Some people don't want to take their toddler out through a busy parking lot or in bad weather or when the toddler was sleeping. Waiting a few minutes before acting seems sensible enough - children who are *left* in cars are generally all right, as compared to children who have been *forgotten*.

 

[milovany]

I have no issue and do nothing when I see older kids in cars (even if there are also younger ones). I don't understand leaving babies/toddlers strapped in carseats in the car alone, though. If I see it, I wait a few minutes and if no one shows I tell a store manager so they can continue waiting, page using the plate, or call police.

 

That's kinda what this article is addressing.  Why?  Why jump to conclusions without being neighborly first, to see if everything is okay and to address it on a community/personal level instead of a criminal one?  The article is about how some lives were drastically and negatively affected because people create a criminal investigation when really a friendly, helpful approach would suffice. 

[Tanaqui]

 

Regarding the safety of leaving a child alone in a car: Yesterday in our area a car was stolen. The thief didn't realize there was a young child in the car, and an amber alert was issued.  The child ended up fine, but it was still a scary experience for everyone I'm sure.

 

The eight year old, right? There's a case like that every few years, and to my knowledge they all turn out the same way: the thief realizes they have a kid in the car and ditches the kid (and often the car as well) someplace safe. If the kid is very small, they frequently call the cops to let them know.

 

Most car thieves don't want to accidentally become kidnappers or murderers, of course.

 

There was one I know of where the thieves were teens, so they panicked and brought the girl home with them. She spent a few hours playing on their playstation until one of their smarter friends told them they had to put her back where they found her!

 

[Tanaqui]

Why jump to conclusions without being neighborly first, to see if everything is okay and to address it on a community/personal level instead of a criminal one?

 

She's not jumping to conclusions. She's waiting a few minutes first. That's not unreasonable. Also, she's telling a store manager rather than calling the cops right off the bat. That's not a criminal level.

 

[Joker]

That's kinda what this article is addressing.  Why?  Why jump to conclusions without being neighborly first, to see if everything is okay and to address it on a community/personal level instead of a criminal one?  The article is about how some lives were drastically and negatively affected because people create a criminal investigation when really a friendly, helpful approach would suffice. 

 

I feel I am being neighborly by waiting a few minutes. I often don't have the time to wait 10-20 minutes by a car to see if parents come back. I make the decision to leave it up to the store employees because otherwise I would go straight for calling police so they could watch the car or find the parent. I'm don't feel I'm jumping to conclusions. I am worried about the health and safety of sleeping babies/toddlers in cars alone though.

[milovany]

She's not jumping to conclusions. She's waiting a few minutes first. That's not unreasonable. Also, she's telling a store manager rather than calling the cops right off the bat. That's not a criminal level.

 

I tend to disagree about "not jumping to conclusions," but that's fine.  I also think telling the store manager is akin to calling the police (that's what he's likely going to do; or at least it's a very real possibility -- it's just the society we live in, call the police rather than try to find the parent and suggest that they reconsider leaving the child in the car).  Just thinking things through based on the article that was linked in the OP, which I found to be interesting, and my experience with leaving my child in the car that I described above.  How awful it could have turned out if someone had called the police and an investigation been opened when I wasn't (and amn't) a neglectful parent in the least.  Again, yes I know there can be different scenarios, I just based my reply on these two things. 

 

[Tanaqui]

Cars can heat up very fast. Little babies and toddlers are not only less able to regulate body heat than older people, but they can't open a window or a car door if things get uncomfortable.

 

This is what results in about 50 deaths a year in the US. 50 isn't very much, thankfully, but it does get a lot of press, so most of us are aware that this is a possibility.

 

Obviously you shouldn't just call the cops whenever you see a child existing. However, I maintain that if you feel a life is legitimately in danger you should, by all means, take whatever steps you feel are necessary. If the parents don't come back to the car in two minutes, you have no way of knowing if they left the child to pop into the store and pick up new diapers (and so should be back quickly) or if they forgot the child entirely (and so might not be back for hours). If the child is unconscious you don't know how long they've been in there (it's reasonable to assume an alert, happy baby is not about to drop dead of heat exhaustion), and literally every minute does count if they're one of the rare cases that have been forgotten in a car.

[SKL]

I don't think a baby in a car is automatically in danger.  Depending on the weather, it can be a nice, safe, snug place and the baby might be a lot happier there than being jerked around.

 

People need to use their judgment.  If I saw a baby in a car in a workplace (factory / office building) parking lot, I would be more likely to act because it would seem likely that nobody just left the child there for a quick errand.  Say it was 9am and the weather was fine, I might still try to contact the parents because things could be a lot different by 5pm.

 

The time I saw a baby in a minivan parked outside a Panera, I waited several minutes to see that the mom came back out.  It was sunny.  When I saw the mom come out, I didn't say anything, just went back to MYOB.

[LucyStoner]

I tend to disagree about "not jumping to conclusions," but that's fine. I also think telling the store manager is akin to calling the police (that's what he's likely going to do; or at least it's a very real possibility -- it's just the society we live in, call the police rather than try to find the parent and suggest that they reconsider leaving the child in the car). Just thinking things through based on the article that was linked in the OP, which I found to be interesting, and my experience with leaving my child in the car that I described above. How awful it could have turned out if someone had called the police and an investigation been opened when I wasn't (and amn't) a neglectful parent in the least. Again, yes I know there can be different scenarios, I just based my reply on these two things.

 

I'm a pretty community minded person. I always offer help to moms and dads in distress on planes or at homeschooling events or at the store. I'm definitely the sort of person like the end of that article who plays peekaboo with the fussy kid in line and helps the mom unload her cart. Hellz, I've even paid for strangers groceries more than once when their card was declined. In short: I get community. That said, I have 2-5 children in my care most of the time when I am out and about. I can't stand around and wait forever to see if a particular child has been left in the car for too long. I'm not going to call the police in most situations but if it's a warm day, a sealed car or clearly not a few minutes situation, I can see calling out the manager. I would also have no way of knowing how long the child has been there already.

[TechWife]

 By 8-9 we would opt to hang out in the car instead of following along on boring shopping trips for up to 30-45 minutes. We'd read books, play our game boys, goof off, whatever. 

 

One day I will collect all of the posts that make me feel old. You had a game boy as a child. Those didn't come out until after I was married. Wow.  :lol: - I'm just laughing at myself, here.

[PrairieSong]

One day I will collect all of the posts that make me feel old. You had a game boy as a child. Those didn't come out until after I was married. Wow. :lol: - I'm just laughing at myself, here.

I'm right there with you, Techwife! Maybe we could publish a book of them or have a vlog or something. :-) I need to get a rocking chair.

[wendyroo]

I also agree extreme sleep deprivation can make you all kinds of wonky.  I forgot who I was and who my baby was on two separate occasion when DD was a baby. 

 

I forgot my newborn's name.  I was taking Spencer in for his two week well-baby check, dragging the two older kids and barely functioning on very limited sleep.  I got up to the check in desk and just completely blanked; I could not for the life of me remember what I had named this child.  I ended up telling the receptionist I would be right back and I walked over to ask Peter what the baby's name was.

 

Yeah, sleep deprivation can definitely make you wonky.

 

Wendy

[Jean in Newcastle]

I forgot my infant in a store.  We had taken her in her detachable car seat because she was asleep and put her down by the desk (it was a carpet store and we were discussing remodeling).  Once we were done with our business we took our son but forgot our daughter.  The salesman came running after us in the parking lot to tell us "You forgot your baby!"  Oh yeah, I had another one!  I just wasn't used to looking out for two of them yet.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Mom forgot me once.  :)

 

I was just a few days old, Dad had been shipped out on some military thing, there was no family nearby, and Mom realized she needed to go to the store for things like toilet paper, milk, etc.  She drove off and left me behind.  Totally forgot, in her sleep deprived state (she had had a rough birth, too), that she had a baby.  Mom is an excellent mom.  She was just off her routine, very tired, and without any supports.  Thankfully, I had nowhere important to go and was busy sleeping so it didn't bother me in the least.   :laugh:   Freaked out my poor, Mom, though.  She still feels guilty several decades later.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My Japanese SIL used to go shopping in Japan and leave her babies at home in the crib.  She took a portable baby monitor with her so that she could go back sooner if they cried.  Different culture.  Different standard of what's ok.  

[Joules]

One day I will collect all of the posts that make me feel old. You had a game boy as a child. Those didn't come out until after I was married. Wow. :lol: - I'm just laughing at myself, here.

I'm feeling old, because much of my instinct on this comes from growing up during the Atlanta child murders. I still remember being freaked out by the frequent "It's X o'clock. Do you know where your children are?" announcements. I never left ds, but car theft wasn't infrequent enough for me. I know mostly the kids are left somewhere, but you never know.

 

I watch, but have never had to call the police. Mom or Dad have always been back quickly. If it was a hot day, it would be another story. Last week, it was a car alarm that I noticed. Apparently the kids in the car (5ish) had set it off playing. Except being perplexed, they didn't seem in distress. Mom was out soon after. Unless it's completely unsafe (hot car, etc.), I really don't think it's necessary for everyone to share my personal neuroses.

[Tiramisu]

My Japanese SIL used to go shopping in Japan and leave her babies at home in the crib.  She took a portable baby monitor with her so that she could go back sooner if they cried.  Different culture.  Different standard of what's ok.  

 

When my dd was in preschool in Japan, at a mom's meeting at the school, one mom was boasting that her son finally reached a point where he could be left home alone. I do think moms left their babies and young kids for short trips out, but not long before there had been some news stories about kids dying in accidents in the home and even the Japanese moms weren't very comfortable with how the one mom was talking. 

 

Waitresses would offer to hold my babies so I could eat if we were out at a restaurant. Once one took a baby for a walk outside and dh freaked out. It was in an urban area and I didn't really think about it at first because I was used to living in the countryside where no one would question it. In the boondocks, I think they liked to be seen with a blond baby in their arms.

[Farrar]

My Japanese SIL used to go shopping in Japan and leave her babies at home in the crib.  She took a portable baby monitor with her so that she could go back sooner if they cried.  Different culture.  Different standard of what's ok.  

 

But then if she did it here after moving should she have her kids taken away?

 

Okay is so relative... I feel like these questions get to how the government should address this stuff and a lot of it seems to me that they can't have the most worried standard - not without forcing everyone to adjust parenting norms.

[creekland]

Ok, I had to google when Game Boy came out (we never had them as kids).  It was 1989.

 

This means my boys could have had them (but didn't) growing up, but eh... not my childhood (or teen) years.

 

I recall playing Pong though.  ;)

 

My parents left me at school once to teach me a lesson.  I've totally forgotten what I did wrong that time, but I do remember getting up to walk (11 miles) home as I saw no other option at the time.  They came back a few minutes later and I wasn't there.  It ended up freaking THEM out.  They found me soon afterward since they immediately started looking where they thought I might go and they had wheels so were faster.

 

I'm guessing no one would even think about doing something like that today - and besides - it didn't really work out well for them anyway.

[unsinkable]

There was a mom on this board who was arrested bc she left her son year old in a car reading a book. I'll never forget that thread. I'm sure it negatively impacted their family and I can't imagine how it helped anything.

[SKL]

Oh yeah, one time when my babies were recently home, I had a friend call me about a flat tire in the middle of the night.  She was afraid to be alone and asked me to come.  I hopped in the car and drove.  A few minutes later I realized I had left my kids sleeping in the house.  Of course they were none the worse for wear.  It just surprised me that I had momentarily forgotten that running out in the middle of the night was no longer such a simple matter.