Disagreement with my teen daughter - she's actually agreed to let other people weigh in on the subject.

[Slipper]

Our family didn't attend church for many years but several years ago joined a conservative Presbyterian church. The only other children in the church were the pastor's kids. Everything was fine until our pastor moved to another church which left our girls as the only kids. The other members are all older (mostly retired) and it's not a big church anyway. I decided that we should attend another church (Baptist) so the girls could be involved in youth groups. 

 

I don't consider myself to be a prude (although I have been accused of being overprotective of my kids). My guess is that having spent several years in a Presbyterian church, I am happy with a slower, more sedate pace. I like the Baptist church and they have been beyond kind to us. My youngest daughter is thriving and happy - new friends and lots of Bible study and memorization. My middle DD, who is 13 years old, is also happy, but I'm not content with her youth minister.

 

He doesn't communicate well with adults. He texts with the kids regarding what trips they should take or activities they should do. I have repeatedly asked to be included in the text list but he keeps two separate lists - one for the kids and one for adults. He says he is trying to combine the two but so far he's been unable to do so. If my daughter has questions, she texts him directly which he prefers. I've asked if he could email the parents but he's had trouble with his email. I've received one 'group' email from him. He hasn't replied to any of my emails to him. 

 

We have a tight schedule at our house and part of my problem is that it is really a headache when I find out at the last minute, that the youth group has decided to go out for pizza after church that night. During a church lock in, he decided (at 1:00 in the morning) to drive all the kids to a nearby town (about 40 minutes away) to go to an all night diner to eat. I don't like plans that change (and I've never signed any type of form for her to be transported anywhere). This causes arguments between dd13 and ourselves (DH and I). If it's a last minute plan, I've quit letting her go. I hate doing it, as it punishes her, but I keep hoping that he'll improve his communication. (I've told him the reason she can't go is because I knew nothing about it until the last minute). I've told dd13 to stop texting with him but she "forgets" or believes it's okay since he's a church leader and it's about church activities. (We've recently pulled her phone because of this). We have a rule that she can't text with adults, but the lines get blurred with church leaders it seems. 

 

I don't think there's anything creepy about him, but....I don't understand why an adult male (late 30's) thinks that texting a 13 year old girl is okay. When I read the text exchanges on her phone, there's nothing wrong that he says, but the other teen guys (older teens) make comments that I think are odd (ex, "I'd love to go jump on a tramp" - tramp being short for trampoline, but he meant it to be funny - I felt the youth minister should've said something about it being an inappropriate comment). My daughter says I'm over-reacting and don't want to realize that she's growing up. However, she said that she would listen to what other adults had to say as long as the responses come from Christians as well as non-Christians. ;) (She's worried that this is a conservative, Christian, homeschool board and everyone will automatically agree with me). 

 

Incidentally, he's trying to build up the youth group which has been steadily declining since he's been in charge. My daughter is one of three girls and four boys. 

 

** Posted more info in post 64 to clarify comments. :)

And post 178.

And 319.

[Jean in Newcastle]

In between both - ie. a compromise.  I don't have a problem with him texting her general texts that go to everyone about activities.  Private texts would be a no-no for me.  I have it set up so that my 13 year old daughter receives information directly.  BUT she is responsible for letting me know immediately for planning purposes.  If she forgets?  Too bad, so sad.  I don't think the comment from the older teen was inappropriate - a bit eye roll worthy perhaps.  The diner wouldn't bother me because I would trust anyone I allowed to have my dd overnight to take her in a group to eat.  

[Miss Peregrine]

"Dd won't be participating in any more youth events unless I know about them before. Period. Here is my number."

[Farrar]

I voted inappropriate. However... I don't personally find anything inherently wrong or suspicious about a youth minister being a male in his 30's trying to "connect" with the kids. I do think lock ins are a breeding ground for inappropriateness. Even as a teen I never got them. I don't think he sounds hopeless or creepy, but I'd sit down with him and really lay out that if he wants to build the program he has to have the buy in and trust of the parents as well as the teens. And that he needs to understand what parents expect and also how being more transparent and clear with the parents is covering his own rear.

[ChristusG]

I'd have blown a gasket if they took my kid to a town 40 minutes away in the middle of the night without my permission. Definitely NOT overprotective. He needs to communicate better with the parents.

[TeenagerMom]

My DD14 attends a different church than I do for youth. I absolutely have made it her responsibility to notify me in advance of events. If I have less than 48 hours notice, she won't be going unless she finds another ride. DD14 also texts with the Youth pastors (male & female adults).

 

DS12 is also responsible for letting me know of youth activities. He rides the church bus on Wednesdays & it is his responsibility to text them to let them know if they need to come get him (female adults).

 

I do think you might be overreacting a bit on the texting but I sympathize with you on the last minute thing.

 

in regards to changes in plans, DD knows it is her responsibility to notify me immediately of changes in plans while she is out with anyone so I can decide if I want to come get her instead of allowing her to continue on with that outing.

[amsunshine]

I'm not even Christian (although I'm not sure that really matters) and I think this situation has big red flags.  There is no way I would be happy with having my 13 year old involved with a group leader that texts parents and teens separately, with the clear communication problems you describe with the parents, and the transportation of kids 40 minutes away from a venue where I expected my dd to be at 1 a.m. without my permission.  Inappropriate.  If this youth group leader wants my dd 13 to participate, he had better be in reliable contact with me at all times, period.

[SKL]

Sorry, it sounds creepy and wrong to me.  He needs to stop texting with her, especially since you have told him that's what you want.

 

The fact that he's a church guy doesn't mean he is immune from whatever other guys think and do.  It just means it's easier to catch naive young people off guard.

 

I don't think I'd let her go on any more overnights or any other activities in an enclosed space with that guy.  Sorry.

[Crimson Wife]

Probably harmless but I wouldn't be comfortable with it. Pedophiles typically "groom" their victims for a long time. I would set clear boundaries, and if the youth minister didn't respect those, I would remove my DD from contact.

[Shellydon]

My DD would be pulled from the group and no longer allowed to partipate at all. 

[Mimm]

I'm a Christian but not very conservative. I'm surrounded in people much more conservative than me politically, and in how they allow their children to dress and what music and tv shows they allow their kids to watch. Just so your daughter knows. ;)

 

But yes, this would bother me. My children are part of a very small youth group and their youth pastor is involved and don't know if he even has their cell numbers. He is friends with both my 14 year old and myself on facebook and there is a facebook group for keeping everyone updated. I don't attend church there, but I am in the FV group, but he also sometimes texts me so as to keep me in the loop with what's going on. I always have ample warning about plans and they don't change.

 

I would have probably have a problem with him texting my kids, but more than that, I would have a problem with my wishes being ignored that I be included on texts. Lack of communication and last minute/changing plans would be a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Tell me what you're going to do, ahead of time, then do it. We're talking about adults that have been allowed to take my kids out of state to camp and will be going a few states away this summer. I would not trust them to leave on a trip with my children if I couldn't even trust them to do what they said they were going to do while they were in town. Nope, would never happen.

 

I would find it very problematic that he took the kids to the next town without advanced warning or parental permission in the middle of the night. That right there would probably have us stepping out of the youth group.

[texasmama]

I see red flags, and my gut is talking to me. I listen to my gut.

[Joanne]

Tell your dd this comes from a mother of 2 young adults and one still teen, former Christian (40 years!), liberal Christian heritage, and I have some professional stuff I could throw that way if you think it would help.

 

ETA: I raised my kids in churches up to about age 16, 14, and 12. They did a lot of youth church activities.

 

First, I think the YP's technology defenses are crap. If your email truly does not work (not a believer, btw), get a new gmail account.

 

If your group text does not include parents who request to be included, create a new freaking list.

 

I am *all about* acknowledging kids and teens have hormones, desires, and thoughts. But I think that the relationship between adults in authority and kids need to be clear. The "jump on a tramp" comment is not ok on several levels.

 

I am not against lock ins, and other fun, adventurous youth activity. But 13 is on the new, and young, side of such events and I think that should come with more parental oversight and more restrictions.

 

I respect that your creep meter is not ringing on this one; but mine is on alert.

 

[amsunshine]

I have to add that the last minute plans/changes in plans, and the exclusion of parents from communication is a hallmark behavior of child grooming/predator behaviors.  This youth group leader may not have any ill intentions, but by behaving in this way, he is sending the wrong signals to the kids involved, and does not appear educated about the concerns pertaining to child predator behavior.  Giving him the benefit of the doubt, it sounds to me like he needs further training/education pertaining to interacting with kids as a group leader.

[JoJosMom]

No way.  DD would be out of there.  Sorry, but I spent a number of years prosecuting sex crimes and I see red flags going up.  The kicker is his flagrant disregard of your authority.

[marbel]

My kids are 16 and 17 and have been going to their youth groups - different churches and not the one we belong to - for about 4 years now.

 

Totally inappropriate behavior on the youth pastor's part.   He should not be moving kids around in the middle of the night without explicit permission!  

 

Parents should be copied on all texts.  Any facebook communication should be within the context of the group too, and adults should be invited to join the group.   (I know fb wasn't mentioned in the OP.)

 

It only takes the appearance of inappropriate behavior to ruin his career.  It can be very easy for a young woman or teen to misinterpret a text or facebook message and start a scandal. 

 

The pastor is out of line.  I understand your daughter - my daughter and I have had similar conversations.   But he is in the wrong.

[pehp]

His unwillingness or inability to communicate with you via email is unacceptable, in my opinion.  His flailing around not being able to combine the texting lists (what?  even I can do that, and I am a Luddite) is also unacceptable.  His lack of response to inappropriate comments (jump on the tramp) makes me uneasy.  

 

I would have been incensed to find that he drove my 13 year old, with other kids, somewhere in the middle of the night, if that's not what I signed up for.  A lock in makes me think they are *staying there.* 

 

I consider myself protective, but not overprotective.  I am pretty laid back about many things.  I would not tolerate this guy at all. 

[chiguirre]

My gut reaction is to pull your dd out of youth group. The technological incapacity to include parents in the loop really sets off my alarm bells. The only way I'd mellow out my reaction is if there were at least 2 unrelated adults who have passed background checks with the kids at all times. If this isn't the case, drop the group immediately. I'm not a Christian, I'm somewhat free range (T has been to a 10 night girl scout camp with only snail mail contact) and I'm very middle of the road socially, but  2 deep leadership and protective behaviors have been ingrained in me through BSA, GSA and Special Olympics training. Even if there are 2 unrelated adults at all times, I'd discuss my concerns about the lack of permission for his 1 am jaunt and his individual texting with his supervisor. The lack of permission slip is such a basic screw up, that it casts doubt on his judgment completely.

[Beaniemom]

I would not be comfortable with my youngbteen child texting any adult in a position of authority like you describe. I would want to be included on any text or e-mail about group activities so that I knew what was happening especially when I am having to drive them and pick thrm up.

 

The driving to another town @ 1 am would have made me furious. I would gave let the youth minister know it was unacceptable and also brought it up with the pastor and/or church council and suggest that guidlines be established and published for such events.

 

I don't necessarily see a real creep factor based on what you said but I do see a profound lack of respect for the parent's role in the family.

 

For what it's worth I grew up Presbyterian and am now Catholic.

[Orthodox6]

Change the youth pastor, or change churches.  He is the red flag for me.

[momacacia]

Regardless of all the other details, the fact that a guy who is younger than me can't figure out how to put parent phone numbers on a text list and parent emails on an email list, is so ridiculous that it raises red flags. If he's really that dumb, intelligent teenagers shouldn't be listening to him and if he's really that disrespectful of parents, he shouldn't be leading and influencing young people.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My kid would be out of the group permanently. Whether it's ignorance or malevolence wouldn't be my concern. Whether he wishes to grow up and get some training is his problem. Hope he does, for the future of the church and the safety of the other kids, but he wouldn't get to practice on my kid anymore. I'd tell the senior pastor why, block the guy's phone number, and that would be that.

[Space station]

Not ok. A lock in is a lock in, not a go out. Taking my child to another town without my permission - I'd blow a gasket. Communication should come to me, or be visible to me, ie all messages sent to my daughter copied to me.

[zoobie]

Is he the only adult?

 

Something's odd to me with his excuse of not being able to figure out texting/emailing. 70 year old? Okay, you get a pass. That being said, it's up to your daughter to communicate the events to you if she wants to attend. A teacher at school wouldn't contact you directly, but church is more of a family atmosphere. I get him wanting to cultivate a rapport with the kids, but there's no reason not to include parents when they specifically ask. Church events should be publicized. What about kids--gasp--without texting capabilities? Or kids who are grounded but still would be able to attend church functions, etc.

 

I wouldn't be happy about the 1am diner run. You gave permission for X and YZ happened. Did your daughter know you wouldn't give permission for the diner? She could've called you to ask and then be picked up if not, but that's a tough call for her to make. Maybe she should know that's a call you want her to make and won't be upset at her for waking you? It seems a really unwise thing for the adult to do--put kids of that in between age in the position of not being able to say no. They couldn't stay at the church alone, so they had to go along with his scheme even if it made them uncomfortable. They couldn't drive themselves home. They don't want to look like babies in front of their friends. It's a vulnerable age. Church shouldn't make that more difficult.

 

I wouldn't expect him to police the trampoline statement unless I'm really missing something in the context?

 

ITA with Farrar on lock-ins.

 

Take away the church aspect. Would you want your daughter hanging out with these people for...piano camp? My parents didn't question anything if it was church related. There were a couple of real morons who led youth group. It was small enough where there wasn't peer pressure, so my friends and I would just raise our eyebrows and say no that's not happening. My parents in other contexts wouldn't have let these people cat sit, kwim?

 

ETA: I'm currently in liberal atheist land to copy BrookValley, but I grew up in a conservative Southern Baptist church.

[momacacia]

And I'd definitely bring the senior pastor and leadership in on this issue. They should know, regardless of the family decision you make, and his failure to respond to your emails means you need to go over his head now.

[Tanaqui]

I'm a liberal atheist. I don't believe overmuch in sheltering kids. I also think that there's something weird about what you describe. You can go tell your daughter that it isn't just conservative Christians who think this is not acceptable.

 

Last minute changes of plans? No contact with the parents using a really, really dubious excuse as to why not? I wouldn't jump to "predator", but that sounds pretty irresponsible - and it sounds like other people agree with you if the youth group attendance has been declining. Do you know why other kids have stopped participating?

 

That said, the stupid text from the older teen? That sounds like something I'd try to ignore in that position. It's not good to make too big a deal about things like that, teens and kids do these things precisely so you'll make a huge deal out of them.

 

[fairfarmhand]

Maybe not inappropriate...but unwise is the best word I can think of.

 

Perhaps foolish is just as valid.

 

i would not like last minute plans. My kids know that if they ask me at the last minute the answer will be no. Every time. So it is in their best interests not to forget these things.

 

No way in the world would I appreciate someone taking my kids someplace that wasn't on the agenda, especially in the middle of the night. If there had been an accident, things could have been very bad.

 

It seems that this man is overstepping his bounds as a minister. At the very least he is impulsive and disorganized, two things that would drive me insane.

 

you need to be able to drop your child off at the church and trust that she will be well taken care of. Nothing unplanned will occur without your knowledge. It doesn't sound like you have that kind of a relationship with this man.

[indigomama]

My DH is a Youth Pastor, in his 30's. I really get irked by suggestions that people like him: men, younger, Christian, works with teens, that they must have some sort of ulterior motives. 

 

DH is very relationship oriented, as I think a lot of Pastors are, and sometimes the administrative side is harder for him to remember. He has put a few things in place that help. 

 

1. He sends out a quarterly newsletter, via snail mail, with all upcoming youth activities.

2. The newsletter is also posted on the church website, and on the youth group and church facebook pages.

3. Students and parents can friend him on the facebook to stay informed or ask questions.

4. He has a phone at church, and a cell. Students and parents have his cell number. 

5. He has twice yearly parent nights, to keep them informed on events, to discuss what the students have been learning, and to answer questions. 

 

While most things are well organized, there are last minute things that come up. He might go out to a restaurant after youth group, they might meet up for coffee randomly just whoever can make it, etc. He doesn't do these things to annoy parents with last minute things, but to build deeper relationships with his students. 

 

It sounds to me like your youth pastor could be more organized, and that just might not be his strong suit, so having someone nicely discuss these things with him would be helpful.

 

If he didn't make changes, then I would have DD stop going until changes were made.

 

 

 

[BrookValley.]

Inappropriate. I'm firmly in liberal atheist land, which I don't really think matters except to give your daughter the perspective of someone definitely not conservative Christian. :)

[Truscifi]

I don't think the texting would bother me if he was willing to include me as the parent as well. And I'm sorry, but no, I don't know how and I'm having problems with email wouldn't cut it. It's possible he's just trying to be the cool guy who doesn't run to the parents for every little thing, but if so he's taking it too far. And it's also possible he's building a habit of keeping parents "out of the loop" because he has nefarious intentions.

 

Either way I don't think it's appropriate and I would be having a sit down with him. His response would dictate the next move.

 

ETA - I'm not at all religious. Not conservative either. But I am suspicious of anyone who tries to cut me out of any part of my kid's life.

[KungFuPanda]

It's not hard to add parents to the texts. There are no insurmountable email problems. It's WAY out of line to leave the premises kin the middle of the night without permission or notice. Whether he means it or not, this is grooming behavior and will set off every parent's Creep Radar.

[Lady Marmalade]

I didn't vote because I'm on the fence.

 

On the one hand, this youth minister sounds very unprofessional to me.  Is he an actual pastor/minister with credentials and schooling behind him?  Or is he one of those former youth members who never grew up and wanted to live in youth group forever so eventually got old enough to be put in charge of the youth? 

 

Honestly, the answer to that question would potentially change my answer.

 

If he is an actual licensed minister, he still sounds clueless, but I would be more likely to trust that he just needs to get things together.  Be firm about your DD not participating unless you receive advance notice.  Let him know, and also let her know that you are expecting this.  If she gets a text about an event, it would not be hard for her to text back "please text my mom and let her know".  No text or e-mail, DD doesn't go. End of discussion.  

 

If he's the latter- the youth group member who never grew up, then the red flags start flying all over. Because in my experience, those people are well versed in electronics, are usually gamers on some level, and should absolutely have the know-how to create new text groups and e-mail lists.  My DD would likely not be participating in anything further with that group, and I would strongly consider a letter to the powers that be expressing my displeasure in how the youth group is run.  

 

I am a Christian, but am not particularly conservative.  However, I do have very strong feelings about adults and minors texting/messaging each other on a casual manner.  Just too much opportunity for things to go awry or even be misinterpreted.  

[SunnyDays]

Not a fan, at all.  I wouldn't have a problem with group texts to the kids, or a group Facebook account or something like that.  But between personal texts, last minute plans, lack of contact with parents after repeated requests... no.  I'd be very uncomfortable.  And taking them to another town in the middle of the night without permission?  That would have been the absolute end of it. 

 

I'm protective too, but guess what?  We're moms.  It's kind of our job. 

 

[plansrme]

I attend a Baptist mega-church; if you are Southern Baptist, you would have heard of it.  That means that we're probably hiring the cream of the crop when it comes to middle school youth pastors.  And, yet, they're flaky.  Very, very flaky.  So flaky that I don't love my kids being involved with the middle-school or, truth be told, the high school ministry. And I have to assume that we're pretty much getting the best quality YP candidates.  I suspect that, with such a small youth group, your church is not; you are getting young, inexperienced and/or just not very good.  Does that make him a predator?  Of course not.  But any YP worth his paycheck should know that what he is doing is unprofessional, at best.  At worst, of course, he is a predator.  I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility, and I am not one to see a predator behind every bush.

 

I recently alerted the HS minister of a report I'd heard on a church function from a course completely unrelated to the church (someone I know professionally found out what church I went to and told me all about the DNOW group that was housed at the house behind hers, and how they were screaming in the neighborhood in the middle of the night, and the entire neighborhood is up in arms and know exactly what church this group is from); he blew it off.  Completely blew it off.  "Yeah, we tell them not to do that."  REALLY?  An entire neighborhood thinks your church is made of a bunch of hooligans, and that's the best you've got?  He didn't want to know what neighborhood (I could have told him) or the host home's name (I could have told him that, too).  He clearly didn't care.  All that mattered to him was that the kids had a good time, 'cause it's all about the good time.  "Show them a good time, and they'll come back" seems to be the mantra.  I think your guy has bought into that and is too immature and has too little structure in place to even administer that properly.

[Catherine]

I have not read all of the responses, and I am not a conservative Christian.  But I also think overnights for teens in general are asking for trouble, and it really irritates me when other parents and organizations set them up and invite my kid.  Co-ed sleepovers for teens?  I think not.  But I also am extremely unpopular here for these views.  

 

I personally would not feel comfortable with a youth minister, or any other 30 yo, personally or group communicating with my young teen without my knowledge or without including me in the texts.  

 

If you are looking for advice, I think you should sit down with him and have a serious talk about his failure to include you in the texts.  I would give him one more chance to "get it right".  After that, I would just honestly withdraw and look for a different situation.  Churches and their youth groups are one hiding place for creeps.  I would communicate this to him and tell him you suspect nothing (as I gather from your OP) but that what he is doing looks bad.  I've been in situations that I honestly wish I had never allowed to start up and I found extremely hard to extricate myself from after the fact, so I am sympathetic. 

[*Lulu*]

As someone who spent years being abused by a youth pastor whose "odd" choices were always attributed to youthful poor judgement, I see red flags all over the place. I would be "that" mother with no regrets or apologies. I would also make sure that church leadership gets a reminder that they can either hire someone with enough maturity to maintain appropriate boundries, provide appropriate oversight to immature hires until reliable, or sit, thumbs up thier asses, until something goes badly and the church is full of hurt people, lost trust, and lawyer fees.

[amsunshine]

Oh, yeah, and I'm not sure about these co-ed overnighters.  Is this common in Christian church youth groups?  Because I'd never let my young, teen dd do co-ed overnighters.  Sorry.  

 

(We are Buddhist, by the way)

[jewellsmommy]

My dh and I have been in children's and youth leadership positions for almost 15 yrs. We are a small Southern Baptist church.

 

I am not a huge fan of lockins, but we have done many in the past. We now do alternative activities. I do not think he should have taken the youth from the church grounds without you knowing. Parents should have a list of the rules, times, and some idea as to the activities (a very general itinerary) in my opinion and that is how I ran these types of events.

 

As far as the texting, I am tossed. He really should have one text list with both parents and kids, or he should be emailing parents, or giving paper copies of trips/activities in advance of said activity. I have now been in ministry long enough to have seen two church leaders abuse their positions and two darling young women were irrevocably effected. So dh and I feel that there needs to be very, very, transparent communications and behaviors between leaders and kids/youth. But, If this guy has not experienced this, he may not get it. He may just be very naive.

 

This is what I would do: If you have already tried to resolve these differences with the yth leader, then I would write out my expectations and ask to meet jointly with the sr Pastor and youth leader. Explain that your dd loves their program, but you need support from them on these matters. Lay out your list. 

 

If you have not had a sit down with the yth leader, then do that first and do it now. Lay out your list and make sure he understands that you need him to work with you on these matters.

 

 

[AK_Mom4]

I needed the third "compromise" option as well.  The last minute changes would not fly here either - unless the event happened to work with our schedule that day, DD13 would not be going.

 

I would be ok with th ecommunication coming thru DD13's phone.  She understands that I will be reading all her texts and emails for the next few years while she is developing her online communication skills.

 

But if my Spider-Mom senses were tingling about any of this being inappropriate, I would totally be tagging along as chaparone at all events.

[BooksandBoys]

I am not religious, but I used to be. Very. Very. Religious.

 

While I was lucky enough to not have any creepy pastors or youth pastors (that I know of, anyway), I was witness to what happens when youth pastors don't pay enough attention and communicate well. Several of my friends got into some very inappropriate situations that may have been avoided with more structure and communication. In addition, his claims about technological incompetence raise red flags. If my son was in this group, I'd pull him.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

He may have no ill intentions, and is probably not creepy at all.  BUT, he lacks judgment, and integrity, and wisdom.  I would not trust him with the care of my 13yo child.

 

The definition of "lock in" is that the kids will be "locked in", all night, and won't come out until they're picked up in the morning.  Taking them all out for pizza or whatever in the middle of the night is contrary to the definition, and to the expectation of the parents.  If the kids are bored, feed them and/or make them go to sleep.  Don't take them out to a town 40 miles away, or even just downtown.  Can he even imagine what it would feel like to be a parent awakened in the middle of the night to hear that their child had been in a car accident?  Sheesh.

 

Not including parents in correspondence regarding the plans and whereabouts of their children, especially young teens, is asking for trouble.  He needs to be protecting himself and covering his actions at all times.  He needs to never be alone with any child in his care.  He needs to include parents in all plans, correspondence and decisions.

 

I think he has a false sense of his mission.  He's trying to be a buddy to these kids, instead of a leader/mentor.  He's acting like a kid himself.

If he suspects problems at home, that is a different thing, and should be well trained in how to deal with that.  But, for regular youth group plans, he is way off.

 

If my kid were 17 years old, I would allow him/her to be in this group.  If they were only 13, there is no way I'd have them in the care of this man.  

[fairfarmhand]

By the way, we have a youth pastor whose attitude is : "I am so incredibly grateful to be working with your teens. I want you to know what's going on and if you have any questions or concerns you come see me yesterday. I will make time for you. If something bugs you, let me know because you are the parents and I can't raise these kids for you! I can only help you." He would NEVER put any of our teens in the position that your dd is in. NEVER.

 

He sweats bullets every time there is an activity because he's so keyed up about the trust and responsibility that he holds at our church with our kids. He knows it is a big deal for families to turn their kids over to him.

 

It doesn't seem that this guy is giving you these vibes.

[Orthodox6]

Oh, yeah, and I'm not sure about these co-ed overnighters.  Is this common in Christian church youth groups?  Because I'd never let my young, teen dd do co-ed overnighters.  Sorry.  

 

(We are Buddhist, by the way)

 

Nor would I countenance my older teens (those who legally are minors) attending a co-ed overnight lock-in.  

[fairfarmhand]

Oh, yeah, and I'm not sure about these co-ed overnighters.  Is this common in Christian church youth groups?  Because I'd never let my young, teen dd do co-ed overnighters.  Sorry.  

 

(We are Buddhist, by the way)

Our church does lock ins like this: Kids show up to the church around 9 pm. For the next nine hours, they have a huge variety of activities occurring. They start with games of all kinds. At some point, a lesson is taught. The kids have something to do for the entire time that they are there. Our church also has many chaperones for these activities. I'd bet the ratio is like 1 adult to every 3-4 kids, and these aren't college kids either. These are many of the parents of the teens...mature fully grown, responsible adults. Our youth lock ins are very busy and packed with wholesome fun. It doesn't remotely resemble a sleepover or slumber party.

 

 

ETA: Some churches have less organized lock ins that are poorly supervised and the kids can really get into trouble. Our church's lock in s are very good though.

[Starr]

Who drove how many kids to the diner? And how many adults were present at the overnight?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm a liberal atheist. I don't believe overmuch in sheltering kids. I also think that there's something weird about what you describe. You can go tell your daughter that it isn't just conservative Christians who think this is not acceptable.

 

Last minute changes of plans? No contact with the parents using a really, really dubious excuse as to why not? I wouldn't jump to "predator", but that sounds pretty irresponsible - and it sounds like other people agree with you if the youth group attendance has been declining. Do you know why other kids have stopped participating?

 

That said, the stupid text from the older teen? That sounds like something I'd try to ignore in that position. It's not good to make too big a deal about things like that, teens and kids do these things precisely so you'll make a huge deal out of them.

 

This sums up my response pretty well. I'm also a liberal atheist, and this guy would bother me on a couple of levels. I don't get red flags about a predator based on just what's been posted here, but I do get red flags about an adult who's actively trying to usurp parental authority and using BS excuses to do it. Sometimes these kinds of people are just really flaky and disorganized, sometimes they're trying to relive their own youth, sometimes they're just trying to feel like part of the in-crowd, and yes, sometimes they're trying to prey on kids. The why of it doesn't matter.

 

If I can't trust someone to be clear with me about where I should expect MY OWN CHILD to be at any given time, then he is no longer trusted with the care of my child in any capacity. That's just the way it works. I'm sorry for your daughter, but fun doesn't come at the expense of safety, ever. 

[WinsomeCreek]

I see flags. Even if this guy has the best intentions, his actions are the subtle kinds used to groom kids. I wouldn't want my younger teens getting the message that this is ok. It would make them vulnerable to guys intentionally grooming. I don't buy that he can't figure out his text or email issues. Give me a break. What really bothers me is the middle of the night dining 40 mins away. Somehow it screams to me desperation to be that cool "breakin' the rules" guy. I'm pretty sure your 13 yo can easily find a group of older teens+ to do that with. I guess I would expect a youth pastor to be more open about what may or may not happen on an overnight. Out driving at 1 am without my permission would tick me off and I would imagine be a nightmare for the church should anything happen.

[Catherine]

The last word from me: our UU church has allowed the junior high and youth groups to have a yearly retreat or "lock-in" though we did not call it that.  In our case, neither could go forward until several parent chaperones had signed up and committed to attending and staying the entire time.  Teachers of all the grades are informed at the beginning of the year about rules WRT: being alone with students-we are never to do that.  

 

So there are rules out there governing these activities and some organizations make it work with the help of parents, who are included as partners in the supervision and education of the students.  Even though I hate co-ed teen sleepovers, I did allow my kids to participate if one of us could chaperone.  

[TechWife]

This is setting off alarm bells for me, a lot of them. I would meet with the sr. pastor, put my concerns in writing, copy them to sr. pastor and the board of elders and find another church. It's that serious. 

[Rosie_0801]

(She's worried that this is a conservative, Christian, homeschool board and everyone will automatically agree with me). 

 

Sorry Daughter of Slipper. Atheist Pagan here, but I still agree with your mum. I'd have pulled you out of the group by now if a female youth pastor was behaving like this, let alone a male. I do not think this is the kind of man who should be allowed to help teach you how young men and women should behave. He doesn't have a proper handle on it himself yet.