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Struggling with pre-algebra choices


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I know, sorry, this is another question about pre-algebra. And I have been reading all of the current posts on this topic, but I'm still uncertain.

 

Dd will be finished with Singapore Math (Level 6) by this fall...the start of her 7th grade year. I know that I can supplement this year/summer with resources such as CWP, pre-geometry, etc. By this fall, I really need her to start her new curriculum.

 

About her: she is a strong student...including in math, but due to too many moves over the last couple of years...not accelerated yet.  She has never needed much more instruction than what we go over using the Singapore textbook and the follow-up with the workbook. We have used some of the problems from the CWP books (various levels) over the years, but have not completed any of these books. Her independent work from the workbook is almost always completely correct or almost completely correct when I look at it later. She liked Singapore's occasional puzzle approach. She is definitely moving towards a heavy science field.

 

I'm uncertain which is the better route for her. Here are my choices:

 

  • MEP but the amount of printing and organizing has kept me away from this
  • JA and would follow up with the other two books if we liked it...I have Jacob's and worry this will be repetitive if we use Jacob's for Algebra and unnecessary to purchase if I have the latter book anyway..not sure about the amount of writing although this is not an issue for her
  • I have Dolciani Algebra 1 and could try to purchase the pre-algebra book
  • Singapore's DM...staying with Singapore is appealing too, but they seem to keep changing and eliminating books...not sure...
  • I'm very interested in AOPS but worry that it will be too much for me. The level of challenge may be just what she needs to prepare her for possible choices in science fields...including astrophysics.
  • I'm definitely not interested in Chalkdust, Saxon or TT for various reasons

Would it be completely wrong to just start right into Algebra I and Geometry and let this carry out over 7th -9th? I have Patty Paper Geometry, Hands-On Geometry, Jacob's Algebra I, Dolciani Algebra I and Jacob's Geometry  (2nd edtion).

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

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Random thoughts:  she might not need a full prealgebra following SM6, though depending on what you choose to move to, you may want to explore what topics she has mastered and whether any topics need more coverage before algebra 1.  My guess is that you could go directly from SM6 to Jacobs for algebra 1 because it starts off so gently.  As for AoPS, I'd lean toward doing the whole AoPS Prealgebra text first before AoPS Intro to Alg.  Do keep in mind that AoPS also has video lessons for all of the prealgebra text and up through ch 13 of Intro to Alg.  Dolciani is also an excellent choice both for prealgebra and algebra 1, though she may not need all of the prealgebra text.

 

I've never used JA but my gut would agree with you, that it wouldn't necessarily make sense to do both JA and Jacobs coming from SM6.  (Maybe Rose can speak to that if she sees this?)

 

You have honed in on some fantastic options - Jacobs, AoPS and Dolciani are all great.  Which will work the best might depend on what sort of student you have.  I'm thinking Dolciani if she needs very straightforward lessons, Jacobs if she is afraid of challenge (coax her into it as the challenge ramps up in the second half of the book and also within each set of exercises), and AoPS if she could benefit from biting off more challenge than she's had to date and/or if she's a big-picture, visual-spatial thinker.

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I agree, you've got only good options in front of you, I don't think you can go wrong.  I love the idea of spending 7th-9th covering Algebra and Geometry in a relaxed, yet thorough way - so much that it's exactly what we are doing too, using many of the same materials.  You could do the Arbor School books - JA, Crocodiles & Coconuts, Chuckles the Rocket Dog, and also Geometry in that period of time and have plenty of time.  Or you could use Jacobs for Algebra 1.  I wouldn't plan to do both the 3 Arbor School books plus all of Jacobs, that would be redundant.  Shannon did JA in 6th and then did Jacobs Ch. 1-7 in 7th.  It was repeated, but I was ok with that, I know she's got it down solid now.  JA and the first 6 chapters of Jacobs cover the same material - basically preAlgebra, but an advanced preA for the student who is solid on their operations and is ready to explore all the operations using variables and solving equations. Having used both, Shannon actually likes the Arbor books better, and so she asked if she could do the next two books for Alg 1 rather than finishing Jacobs.  So we're going to go that route. We're doing Geometry concurrently, right now using the Geometry class on EdX, then she'll do Understanding Geometry from CTC.  After that, probably an outsourced Geometry class in 9th grade, at which point it should be overtrained, I think.

 

If I were sitting in your shoes, I'd just have her start with Jacobs.  Otherwise you'll get into the situation I'm in - owning Jacobs but buying a whole other program because it's just a little bit better!  :001_rolleyes:  If Shannon had never done JA, she would have been perfectly happy with Jacobs, it's great.  She just likes the voice and style of the JA author a little better.  Since I bought AoPS to indulge myself, least I could do was buy the Arbor books to indulge her, right?  But Jacobs really is perfectly fine.

 

ETA:  Just to reiterate - you don't need to do both JA and Ch. 1-6 of Jacobs.  If I was starting with a 7th grader, I wouldn't do both.  In my situation I had a 6th grader who was getting bored with MM 6, but who I didn't want to start on "real" Algebra yet, I didn't want her accelerating that much.  So JA was a perfect bridge in our particular situation. But where you are, I'd do either Jacobs or the 3 Arbor books, not both.  Does that make sense?

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I would not worry about AoPS being too much for you. The book is very clear, IMO, and there is additional help on the website. Our only problem with it was that my ds did not like working that hard on the problems and there were not enough of them to get assistance figuring out how to do one, and then having plenty more. If your dd likes math puzzles and is willing to accept regular problems as being puzzles to work with she may like AoPS. If you think it may fit her and would be the best for her interests, I'd go with it.

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You can take three years for algebra and geometry. You can do them concurrently for three years too.
 

Why is nobody staying put on SM through 8B? I have a kid I am planning on keeping in SM all the way through grade 8. Looking at the scope of the program, it appears grade 7 and 8 cover through Algebra 1. I was thinking to look elsewhere afterwards.

I didn't continue with DM 7&8 because I was bored looking at the samples and my kids have covered bits and pieces of the topics in 7&8 elsewhere. I do have a copy of additional math Singapore edition which I intend to use as PreCalc prep.
Another reason is the DM7&8 is not similar to the version I use as a school kid in Singapore so no love lost. SM wasn't the version I used either as a elementary school kid.

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You can do them concurrently for three years too.

 

 

 

Yes, I was thinking about this too. I could spend the better part of 7th using the earlier chapters/work for a pre-algebra/pre-geometry type work load and then spread the rest of it out over the next two years. If she finished early, I can then move her into Dolciani Algebra 2 (which I also have).

 

We're already planning on handling science this way...at least for the 7-9th years.

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I agree, you've got only good options in front of you, I don't think you can go wrong.  I love the idea of spending 7th-9th covering Algebra and Geometry in a relaxed, yet thorough way - so much that it's exactly what we are doing too, using many of the same materials.  You could do the Arbor School books - JA, Crocodiles & Coconuts, Chuckles the Rocket Dog, and also Geometry in that period of time and have plenty of time.  Or you could use Jacobs for Algebra 1.  I wouldn't plan to do both the 3 Arbor School books plus all of Jacobs, that would be redundant.  Shannon did JA in 6th and then did Jacobs Ch. 1-7 in 7th.  It was repeated, but I was ok with that, I know she's got it down solid now.  JA and the first 6 chapters of Jacobs cover the same material - basically preAlgebra, but an advanced preA for the student who is solid on their operations and is ready to explore all the operations using variables and solving equations. Having used both, Shannon actually likes the Arbor books better, and so she asked if she could do the next two books for Alg 1 rather than finishing Jacobs.  So we're going to go that route. We're doing Geometry concurrently, right now using the Geometry class on EdX, then she'll do Understanding Geometry from CTC.  After that, probably an outsourced Geometry class in 9th grade, at which point it should be overtrained, I think.

 

If I were sitting in your shoes, I'd just have her start with Jacobs.  Otherwise you'll get into the situation I'm in - owning Jacobs but buying a whole other program because it's just a little bit better!  :001_rolleyes:  If Shannon had never done JA, she would have been perfectly happy with Jacobs, it's great.  She just likes the voice and style of the JA author a little better.  Since I bought AoPS to indulge myself, least I could do was buy the Arbor books to indulge her, right?  But Jacobs really is perfectly fine.

 

ETA:  Just to reiterate - you don't need to do both JA and Ch. 1-6 of Jacobs.  If I was starting with a 7th grader, I wouldn't do both.  In my situation I had a 6th grader who was getting bored with MM 6, but who I didn't want to start on "real" Algebra yet, I didn't want her accelerating that much.  So JA was a perfect bridge in our particular situation. But where you are, I'd do either Jacobs or the 3 Arbor books, not both.  Does that make sense?

 

Yes, this makes perfect sense. Thank you so much. This helps a lot! :)

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With those options, I'd choose JA and its sequels. At the end, I'd use Foerster or AOPS to finish off algebra (unless you're confident that everything was mastered.

 

We went from SM 6b to Galore Park 2 and 3 to Foerster Algebra. It's been a good path for us.

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We used math in focus course 2 this year. Our of all the math Math in Focus is my favorite (more visuals, less words)however I noticed the topics are getting harder for me to jump in and help. Are there any math in focus online courses for middle grades? What is math in focus course 2 comparable to? Would my girls be prealgebra next year? Still considering derek owens prealgebra over summer to tie up loose ends before starting algebra.

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We used Singapore through 5b, then DD1 fiddled around with Russian Math for a few months before we moved directly into Singapore Dimensions Math 7A. She did 7A, 7B and 8A, then moved to a standard geometry course, which she completed in one semester because she had had quite a bit of Geometry in Singapore. She will be doing Algebra 2 next fall.

 

With DD2 we did Singapore through 5B, then tried Dolciani pre-algebra, but the Dolciani was too many problems, not of the same quality as Singapore, and much more drill. So after just a couple chapters she also moved to Singapore Dimensions 7A and is doing great. I looked at so many pre-algebra and algebra texts but found nothing that compared with the quality of the problems in Singapore, especially the way the program integrates review right into the chapter problems - i.e. the problems are complex enough that you are always reviewing old skills as you learn and master new skills. I think Dimensions 7 and 8 are fantastic, and have never understood why they don't get much respect here. I have heard other posters say that the DM program was easier than NEM, but I will say that I found the Dimensions (Common Core) program to be very, very rigorous. 

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We used Singapore through 5b, then DD1 fiddled around with Russian Math for a few months before we moved directly into Singapore Dimensions Math 7A. She did 7A, 7B and 8A, then moved to a standard geometry course, which she completed in one semester because she had had quite a bit of Geometry in Singapore. She will be doing Algebra 2 next fall.

 

With DD2 we did Singapore through 5B, then tried Dolciani pre-algebra, but the Dolciani was too many problems, not of the same quality as Singapore, and much more drill. So after just a couple chapters she also moved to Singapore Dimensions 7A and is doing great. I looked at so many pre-algebra and algebra texts but found nothing that compared with the quality of the problems in Singapore, especially the way the program integrates review right into the chapter problems - i.e. the problems are complex enough that you are always reviewing old skills as you learn and master new skills. I think Dimensions 7 and 8 are fantastic, and have never understood why they don't get much respect here. I have heard other posters say that the DM program was easier than NEM, but I will say that I found the Dimensions (Common Core) program to be very, very rigorous.

Would you say Dimensions 8 corresponds to Algebra 1?

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We used Singapore through 5b, then DD1 fiddled around with Russian Math for a few months before we moved directly into Singapore Dimensions Math 7A. She did 7A, 7B and 8A, then moved to a standard geometry course, which she completed in one semester because she had had quite a bit of Geometry in Singapore. She will be doing Algebra 2 next fall.

 

With DD2 we did Singapore through 5B, then tried Dolciani pre-algebra, but the Dolciani was too many problems, not of the same quality as Singapore, and much more drill. So after just a couple chapters she also moved to Singapore Dimensions 7A and is doing great. I looked at so many pre-algebra and algebra texts but found nothing that compared with the quality of the problems in Singapore, especially the way the program integrates review right into the chapter problems - i.e. the problems are complex enough that you are always reviewing old skills as you learn and master new skills. I think Dimensions 7 and 8 are fantastic, and have never understood why they don't get much respect here. I have heard other posters say that the DM program was easier than NEM, but I will say that I found the Dimensions (Common Core) program to be very, very rigorous. 

 

Thank you. I really did want to learn more about Singapore's middle school math.

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Would you say Dimensions 8 corresponds to Algebra 1?

 

The short answer is Algebra 1 +

 

It's spread out across 7 and 8. Dimensions 7 covers topics we might consider pre-algebra, beginning algebra and beginning geometry. Dimensions 8 covers the remaining algebra topics, more geometry and a few topics that might be covered in Algebra1 and/or Algebra 2 - such as fuller coverage of quadratics and fractional exponents.

 

So, a student who completes the series could transition into either an algebra 2 class or a geometry class (it doesn't really cover proofs the way most American geometry classes do, so we had our daughter add on some additional geometry. 

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