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Brand new to highschool HSing and starting in 12th HELP! STEM kid too!


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I have 3 years of HSing under my belt so not a total noob but my students are 8 and under.  This year we have moved out of state and my 17yo step-daughter, soon to be 12th grader will be home to HS for the very first time.  She has always been in public school down in WV so not a top school by a long shot unfortunately.  She is very science driven but she does struggle in math.  We are ok as far as history and English goes as she has taken all honors and AP courses up until now and I have afterschooled English in the past as well to get her stronger there.  

 

My main concern is getting her not only caught up in math but strong enough for a STEM path in college.  She right now is toying with an astronomy based major or going the route of hubby in software engineering.  She took Algebra this year for 11th and has been struggling with it and unfortunately with her being at her mom's the majority of the time we haven't really been able to help her with it either.  Would it be crazy of me to attempt INT ALG from AoPS and then maybe into pre-calc with a kid struggling in basic algebra?  I am lost where to go with her so I can challenge her yet not completely loose her.  

 

Next worry is for science.  I want to give her a good rigorous science but again with the struggling in math I am not sure where to go with it.  She has taken an honors bio course so not sure if I should go AP level bio or skip onto Physics since she has a greater interest in astronomy and astrophysics.  With physics what would be a good course that would not kill her in the math area?  i was originally looking at CPO or OM physics but I keep questioning myself.  

 

We have a good college minutes away from us now that is listed as an open center for CLEP testing which I was hoping to do for her, so I am really wanting to make sure we can get her well prepared for that as well. 

 

One thing I should mention is that we are living off the grid, so we cannot rely on online courses or materials due to the fact that electricity and internet are limited resources in our home.  

 

 

Thanks in advance for any responses as they are super greatly appreciated!!!!!  I am kind of freaking out a wee bit since I am about to jump into highschool with two feel and no prep HAHA

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Just a couple of quick thoughts:

 

1. Congrats!

Kudos to you and her and your family for being willing to do the work that it is going to take to make this transition happen! :)

 

2. Transcript

As she finishes up 11th grade at her current school in the next month or so (BEFORE she leaves the school), be sure to go in and get a copy of her official transcript. Legally, it may have to be her father to be the one to go in and request it. You want to have your own copy of it, but in future, for any admission applications to any future community colleges or 4-year universities, you'll also have to have the high school send an official transcript, along with your own homeschool transcript.

 

In addition: you mention honors and AP classes. Did she take any of the actual AP tests, and does she have AP scores for those tests? If so, you'll want to have her get access to her College Board AP account in case you later need to access those scores and have them sent to any future colleges for possible course credit.

 

3. Together, make a high school plan

Sit down together and look up what the local high school graduation requirements are, and what the typical college admission requirements are (for local universities, and any specific universities she is interested in attending). Esp. if interested in a STEM field, she will likely need something like this:

 

4 credits = English

4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2, Pre-Calc)

4 credits = Science, with labs

3 credits = Social Sciences (1 credit = Amer. Hist., 1 credit = World Hist/Geog., 0.5 credit each = Econ and Gov't)

2-3 credits = Foreign Language (of the same language)

1 credit = Fine Arts

4-6 credits = Electives

total = 22-24 credits 

 

As part of the plan, also figure out what other skills she may need to acquire and which she already has:

- writing (solid essays, research papers, and 'real life' writing)

- touch typing

- computer keyboarding and basic software use

- public speaking

- study skills (note-taking from lectures, studying for tests, time management, etc.)

- driver's ed

 

Also to help planning for future career paths, here are links to the educational requirements for the different fields you mentioned that she is interested in:

Physicists and Astronomers -- requires a Ph.D.

Software Developer -- requires a Bachelor's

Computer Programmer  -- requires a Bachelor's

 

4. Consider a 5th year of high school

Since she is very interested in going into a STEM field, I would discuss with her the possibility of doing a 5th year of high school -- so, do 2 years of homeschool high school. That will give her the additional time she needs to get rock solid in the math and science that she will need to do well in college math and science courses. That will also lay a solid foundation for then attempting some CLEP tests in that 5th year of high school. (I would not recommend trying to juggle CLEP tests next year while still struggling with Algebra 1 and figuring out science credits.)

 

5. Consider dual enrollment

Enrolling in a quality local community college for some dual enrollment (simultaneous high school and college credit) can slightly speed up her credit accumulation and provide extra rigor. However, from your description, I don't think I'd attempt that until a 5th year of high school. Dual enrollment requires applying for admission to the community college, and THAT process requires taking a placement test in reading, writing and math. If the math is not up to their standards, she may only be allowed to take remedial courses until her math levels are up to college entrance standards.

 

Also worth considering: look into the AAS degrees at the local community college; there are a number of 2-year Applied Associate's of Science (AAS) degrees that are in the STEM fields that can be started via dual enrollment and help the student into a higher paying job (than high school diploma only) in their field of interest -- examples of STEM AAS degrees: nuclear engineer/tech, medical imaging, radiology, computer software and IT, etc.

 

Also, some states offer FREE dual enrollment to high school students -- another reason to consider doing a 5th year of high school. :)

 

6. re: math

Ouch. If struggling with Algebra 1, it is NOT advisable to race ahead into Alg. 2 and Pre-Calc. Algebra 1 is absolutely foundational and Alg. 2 and Pre-Calc. build on it. And certainly I wouldn't jump into a rigorous program such as AoPS that requires high level problem solving when she has not had that previously, AND trying to start that rigorous program at a level above her struggling abilities right now...

 

One-on-one tutoring might be a good route. What type of program is she using now and struggling with?

 

I'd actually suggest backing up and starting this summer with something like Lial's Basic College Math (Pre-Algebra) to get solid with the foundations, and move through it at as brisk a pace as she can handle, and then move on to Lial's Algebra 1. Geometry can be done concurrently. Depending on how much it "clicks" for her, you might be able to start Algebra 2 before the end of next school year, and work through the summer to complete it. Or, finish it during the first part of the 5th year of high school and take Pre-Calc (or other higher math that would specifically be used in Astronomy or Astrophysics) as a dual enrollment course in the spring of the 5th year of high school.

 

Again, if wanting a STEM field, she absolutely needs to get solid with the foundations of higher maths FIRST. And only go at her pace -- you just canNOT rush math understanding. JMO! :)

 

 

Welcome to planning for high school, and BEST of luck to you all! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

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"struggling in basic algebra" and "STEM kid" will not fly. She MUST be rock solid in Algebra 1, before advancing into higher math courses.  I created a thread about some free online Math courses, a week or 2 ago, but you wrote that you are off the grid, so I don't know if you can use these or not.   If you can get better Internet access, here's the link about the free courses:

 

http://distancelearn.about.com/od/isitforyou/tp/free-online-math-classes.htm?utm_campaign=list_distancelearn&utm_content=20150330&utm_medium=email&utm_source=exp_nl

 

If and when she is completely competent with Math, then Astronomy or Software Engineering might be Majors for her to consider.  I wish her much good luck!

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I'd see about getting a math placement test - even at your local community college - or if you can, online, then plotting which math to go with.  Was she in Alg 1 or Alg 2?

 

You definitely want SOLID algebra skills before progressing on if she wants to head STEM.  If she has gaps in her knowledge, you'll want to know and fill them in.

 

Does she have AP test scores or did she just take AP classes?  IME, AP classes without the tests tend to be unworthy of the name, so you might not want to consider those top notch.  If they came with test scores (4 or 5 preferably) then I'd consider them worthy.

 

DE classes would be a good consideration if possible with the college close to you.

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My main concern is getting her not only caught up in math but strong enough for a STEM path in college.  She right now is toying with an astronomy based major or going the route of hubby in software engineering.  She took Algebra this year for 11th and has been struggling with it and unfortunately with her being at her mom's the majority of the time we haven't really been able to help her with it either.  Would it be crazy of me to attempt INT ALG from AoPS and then maybe into pre-calc with a kid struggling in basic algebra?  I am lost where to go with her so I can challenge her yet not completely loose her.  

 

 

Imo, I would not use AoPS with a student that was struggling with Alg. I.  If you do decide to go with AoPS, I would start in the 2nd half of the Introduction to Algebra book since that book covers most of the topics in an Algebra II class as well as the Algebra I topics. 

 

Good luck!

 

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As others have said, solid algebra skills are a must. IF you are interested in AoPS, I'd go as far to say to start at the beginning of Introduction to Algebra. I'd bet she'd have trouble with the initial chapters. Also the AoPS Intro to Algebra book covers algebra 1 and most of algebra 2.

 

There are lots of routes you can take with her in math, but if she doesn't have a solid algebra foundation, then she's never going to make it in a STEM field.

 

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thanks so much all :)  I believe I still have a copy of Lial's floating around from trying to help with math earlier and if not I will definitely grab another copy!  

 

I mentioned AoPS because I <3 them LOL  We have been using beast with my 8yo starting this past year and have been loving it and looking forward to using them for higher maths.  I will ask her what she has actually taken in math thus far so I can get a better picture of where she is actually struggling and where we can go from here.  Unfortunately with being in PS and for the last 11 years being 50/50 split custody we have simply not had the full amount of time to really help her gain a foundation the way we do with our younger children who start in SM+Miquon.  

 

So far as I know the other courses she has taken were honors.  This year was the first of the AP courses and it was American History I believe and her test for it is coming up soon.  I will have to talk to her and her dad about the idea of a 5th year of highschool because with where her interests lie I would really rather spend the time giving her a solid foundation then rushing her off unprepared and possibly ending up disappointed in what she is able to take in college.  

 

Again i appreciate the help more than you all know!  <3 

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I will have to talk to her and her dad about the idea of a 5th year of highschool because with where her interests lie I would really rather spend the time giving her a solid foundation then rushing her off unprepared and possibly ending up disappointed in what she is able to take in college.  

 

And I would encourage you all to see a 5th year of high school as a bonus year or college prep year for STEM career success, to have extra time to accrue a super solid math/science transcript, for college admission credits and scholarships. And it provides the opportunity to participate in extracurriculars that would make her even more attractive for college admission and scholarships -- things like:

 

- local summer science programs (usually hosted by local university or community college)

- high school "intern" or volunteer with one of the local university science/engineering clubs

- women in science high school group

- mentoring by a local adult women in science group

- science / robotics / engineering / rocket after school club, 4-H group, etc.

- community amateur astronomy association

- national science competition or science camp

 

A 5th year of high school should absolutely NOT at all be thought of as a "repeat" for failing / flunking, because she in NO WAY has failed.

 

 

And if a bonus year of high school won't work or absolutely gets vetoed, then I would probably do something like this for 12th grade:

 

1. Schedule 6 solid credits

- 1 credit = English

- 2 credits = Math (Geometry, and, finish Algebra 1 from summer, start Algebra 2 when ready)

- 2 credits = Science, with labs

- 1 credit = whatever is missing (see list in my post above)

 

2. Instead of time on dual enrollment or CLEP, use time to get solid in any other skills needed for college success

 

3. Also use that time on STEM extracurriculars and activities

 

4. For the 1-2 years after high school graduation, attend the local community college as a bridge to a 4-year university, and to knock out the "gen. ed." credits to transfer to a university.

 

 

One final thought: Does she have strengths and interests in writing, or in some other area besides science? Because integrated degrees are becoming much more accepted and desired in the STEM fields. Engineering, medicine and the sciences are hiring people with a minor in a STEM field or a double major in a science field, but who can write and "translate" the technical aspect of the STEM field into layman's terms. Or want people with business background for helping to market and sell scientific products. Or need artists, graphic designers, media people, etc. who understand the science to present it visually to the public. Etc.

 

So that might be an avenue to explore as well, which would allow her to pursue two interests, and not be hit as hard with the math required for a straight-up science degree. And, she may do just be a bit of a "late-bloomer" with the math and once her life situation settles down with your family, she may do great and catch up fine, and it will end up being a moot point. :)

 

BEST of luck in your exciting new family adventure! Warmest regards, Lori D.

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Follow on to my earlier reply. I read the first post again.

"She has taken an honors bio course so not sure if I should go AP level bio or skip onto Physics since she has a greater interest in astronomy and astrophysics.  With physics what would be a good course that would not kill her in the math area?"

 

I would skip the AP BIO.

 

Physics IMHO = NO at this time. Possibly she can handle Chemistry, with her current Math abilities.   I would look very carefully at the requirements for any Chemistry courses you consider.  

 

If there is some way you can improve your Internet access, a lot of Math help (mentioned in my first reply) is available to her and it is free.

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Does she like math? Being behind is one thing and can be remedied, but if she is seriously considering astrophysics, she needs to not just be good at math, but also like it. She needs to be aware that this is pretty much the most math heavy subject you can imagine aside from math itself.

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Does she like Music? My wife suggested that for your SD. There is a huge connection, between Math and Music. If she is good with Music, she will probably be good with Math.  Years ago, I shared an office with about 5 people. Two of them had a Bachelors degree in Music. Then, they got an M.S. in Math. Both of them were working as Engineers.

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She likes it but she has not had a good track record as far as teachers and curriculum goes.  I spoke with her a bit today and so far she is pretty against the idea of a 5th year of highschool.  

 

As far as math goes, she took math 3 this year.  Neither she nor I really know what that equates to and I am having trouble online figuring that out. We are pretty sure it has covered a decent amount of algebra but from my understanding it really tends to hop around actual topics.  I have linked her so far to the hippocampus page so she can start watching some more videos and we are going to look into getting her some curriculum to work on independently before she moves up with us this July.   

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She LOVES  music and she is quite good with it!!!  She is a self taught pianist.  :)  We got her a computer program that she can program to teach her virtually and music using her keyboard.  She also played flute for a number of years in band :)

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Does she like math? Being behind is one thing and can be remedied, but if she is seriously considering astrophysics, she needs to not just be good at math, but also like it. She needs to be aware that this is pretty much the most math heavy subject you can imagine aside from math itself.

 

I like to tell my students that Physics = Math Word Problems when they ask what that major is.  ;)

 

She likes it but she has not had a good track record as far as teachers and curriculum goes.  I spoke with her a bit today and so far she is pretty against the idea of a 5th year of highschool.  

 

As far as math goes, she took math 3 this year.  Neither she nor I really know what that equates to and I am having trouble online figuring that out. We are pretty sure it has covered a decent amount of algebra but from my understanding it really tends to hop around actual topics.  I have linked her so far to the hippocampus page so she can start watching some more videos and we are going to look into getting her some curriculum to work on independently before she moves up with us this July.   

 

I can see her (or anyone) being against a 5th year of high school as many do see it as failing rather than a better path to success.  I'll double my thoughts that a math placement test would be a good idea - to figure out what she knows and where there are gaps.  If she has internet access now, I know Teaching Textbooks offers placement tests online.  It doesn't mean you have to use their curricula if you don't like them - it just gives you an idea of where she's at.

 

Math 3 sounds like it could be Alg 2(ish) if Math 1 is Alg 1 and Math 2 is Geometry, but I'm just guessing - totally guessing.

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I believe her interest in music and her abilities with it will help her greatly with success in Math. That is very encouraging for her.  My wife believes Chemistry would be tough for her, without being solid in Algebra 1.  I believe if you follow what has been suggested and what you are contemplating, you will get her up to speed. She needs to be patient. She must be rock solid with Algebra 1 before proceeding.  

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Math 3 could also be Integrated Math 3. Integrated Math covers topics in algebra, geometry, statistics, and some other topics (bits of number theory, counting, probability), with the complexity of the topics increasing each year.

 

Here, the schools have IM 1-3 followed by precalculus.

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Math 3 could also be Integrated Math 3. Integrated Math covers topics in algebra, geometry, statistics, and some other topics (bits of number theory, counting, probability), with the complexity of the topics increasing each year.

 

Here, the schools have IM 1-3 followed by precalculus.

 

Based on her description, I believe this is what it is. It seems to cover various topics and move around between them quite a bit.  It is, from what I understand, the "basic" math course that her school offers.  In that it is what kids who were not able to fit the higher maths (honors, AP) into their schedule just get put into and what kids that could not get into honors etc get put into as well.  She is not a fan of it, because for one, the people taking it as well as the teacher are very unmotivated.  She really likes the environment in honors and AP courses because everyone wants to be there and are motivated to do well.  From how she has described the Math 3 class it is quite the opposite.  

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Based on her description, I believe this is what it is. It seems to cover various topics and move around between them quite a bit. It is, from what I understand, the "basic" math course that her school offers. In that it is what kids who were not able to fit the higher maths (honors, AP) into their schedule just get put into and what kids that could not get into honors etc get put into as well. She is not a fan of it, because for one, the people taking it as well as the teacher are very unmotivated. She really likes the environment in honors and AP courses because everyone wants to be there and are motivated to do well. From how she has described the Math 3 class it is quite the opposite.

Well, that's not cool.

 

In the public and charter schools here, there are three levels of Integrated Math. The highest level is basically AoPS-type problems! (My nephew is in this class. He's the same age as dd.)

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Here's a link to School Yourself.

 

https://schoolyourself.org/learn

 

They offer short lessons and review sets for high school math topics. This might be a good way to identify holes and fill them quickly. We've been doing their algebra course on EdX and while it's not challenging, it is a good road map to all the topics that are typically covered in algebra 1. Their main website includes topics through calculus, so I think it's a better fit for your dsd, OP.

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Jumping in about the "starting in 12th" part.......

 

DD21 was in public school k-11, but wanted to homeschool her senior year so she would have more time to concentrate on her music. She tailored her senior courses towards music theory and writing, with private lessons, sports and performance groups filling up her day. She is currently studying music education in college and doing extremely well.

 

DS19 was homeschool for grades 5-8, then went to public high school. He, too, chose to come home for his senior year so he could concentrate on what interested him (computers). For both kids, the colleges they applied to responded very positively to the non-tradional senior year on the transcript.

 

HS'ing a senior can be lots of fun. I would encourage you to help your SD to think outside the box with regards to courses. Yes, shore up the algebra skills, but also help her think about the things she loves and is good at.

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