Another language arts question

[woolybear]

Sorry for so many LA questions of late. Up til now we have done mostly copywork, a little (very little) grammar, spelling, and a teeny tiny bit of dictation. However, I see ds really needs more. A lot more than what I was doing. So, I have decided to add in All About Spelling. I would also like some grammar and possibly a writing program or maybe that should wait a bit.

 

Here are the programs I am mulling over. I don't want to be redundant on the programs or have over kill. Please give some suggestions:

 

Grammar:

Easy Grammar

First Language Lessons (start with level 3, I think)

 

Writing:

Writing with Ease (probably start with level 2

 

I also really like the look of Bravewriter's new program Faltering Ownership

 

Ds is 12. He does not like to write because he is not confident with spelling and his handwriting is slow. I think he would be quick to learn some of the grammar but as of now does not know much. I think he needs to start probably at the beginning.

 

I think I'm forgetting something here. Going to check my notes.....

[woolybear]

Oh yes. Jennifer Bogart recommended CLE for LA. I think that is a possibility as well. My head is spinning.

 

I would like to get this going this year. So need to make decisions soon.

 

Thank you for any help.

[Aurelia]

I don't think I would do FLL with a 12 year old, but if I did, I would use level 4. It starts from the beginning but doesn't spend weeks teaching what a noun is. You might look into Analytical Grammar, it's designed for older kids, and I think it starts at the beginning.

 

If you are going to do WWE, I'd go with the Fundamentals book rather than one of the leveled workbooks because he'll likely master the skills much faster than a 7 or 8 year old (the intended audience for WWE2) would. That way he won't get bored with the repetition. From there, you can move to WWS. 

[Ellie]

Sorry for so many LA questions of late. Up til now we have done mostly copywork, a little (very little) grammar, spelling, and a teeny tiny bit of dictation. However, I see ds really needs more. A lot more than what I was doing. So, I have decided to add in All About Spelling. I would also like some grammar and possibly a writing program or maybe that should wait a bit.

 

Here are the programs I am mulling over. I don't want to be redundant on the programs or have over kill. Please give some suggestions:

 

Grammar:

Easy Grammar

First Language Lessons (start with level 3, I think)

 

Writing:

Writing with Ease (probably start with level 2

 

I also really like the look of Bravewriter's new program Faltering Ownership

 

Ds is 12. He does not like to write because he is not confident with spelling and his handwriting is slow. I think he would be quick to learn some of the grammar but as of now does not know much. I think he needs to start probably at the beginning.

 

I think I'm forgetting something here. Going to check my notes.....

 

I wouldn't do both Easy Grammar and FLL.

 

If he is not confident with his spelling and his handwriting is slow, because I am the Spalding geek I would recommend several months of Spalding first, then the other things. Your ds is at an age when his spelling and handwriting will affect the work he does in almost all other subjects. Yes, he could do all his work on a computer, but then he's tied to a device, KWIM?

[woolybear]

Thank you. That is all really helpful advice. My concern with starting at the higher levels was that he would miss important basics. However, I understand that you're saying that is not the case. Honestly, his knowledge of grammar is very limited. He does know nouns, verbs, and adjectives but not much more. Yes, this is my fault. Hangs head in shame, but trying to correct it now. I think he will get it pretty quickly, but I'm hoping for a not too boring approach.

[MerryAtHope]

Thank you. That is all really helpful advice. My concern with starting at the higher levels was that he would miss important basics. However, I understand that you're saying that is not the case. Honestly, his knowledge of grammar is very limited. He does know nouns, verbs, and adjectives but not much more. Yes, this is my fault. Hangs head in shame, but trying to correct it now. I think he will get it pretty quickly, but I'm hoping for a not too boring approach.

 

Easy Grammar is spiral--meaning that you can jump in at an older age, even if he's never done the younger levels, and even if he hasn't retained much about grammar other than the basics. 

 

Another program to consider is Essentials in Writing by Matthew Stephens. That was incredibly helpful for my reluctant writer. 

 

You mentioned starting AAS for your son--if he really struggles with spelling, you may find that writing becomes a bit easier after AAS 3. At that point the student has mastered over 1000 basic words, and that's often a tipping point at which writing can become easier. Also, AAS includes a gradual progression of writing exercises that helps kids improve their stamina. Level 1 starts with words and dictation phrases, Level 2 has dictation phrases and sentences, Level 3 has more sentences and introduces a "Writing Station" activity where kids start to make up their own sentences to reinforce some of the words they have been working on. And so on. (Level 7 has a fun story-writing activity that my youngest really enjoyed! My oldest preferred the old writing station activity, so he just did sentences as he had done previously.)

 

I say all of this to encourage you--writing this year may still be really difficult for your son. Don't be down on yourself because your son struggles to retain grammar or struggles with writing. Know that you are working hard to gradually build up those skills (and he is working hard too--kids who struggle are typically putting out a lot more energy and less to show for it, which is frustrating for them--so encourage him to keep working and praise the small successes). Your son will get there, even if it feels like he never will. My struggling, reluctant writer is graduating this year, and it really is amazing the progress kids can make in high school. Keep working with him, encourage him, encourage yourself, don't give up. It's worth it. 

[woolybear]

Thank you for all the help and encouragement.

[VANURSEPRAC]

Thank you. That is all really helpful advice. My concern with starting at the higher levels was that he would miss important basics. However, I understand that you're saying that is not the case. Honestly, his knowledge of grammar is very limited. He does know nouns, verbs, and adjectives but not much more. Yes, this is my fault. Hangs head in shame, but trying to correct it now. I think he will get it pretty quickly, but I'm hoping for a not too boring approach.

 

 

Following........

 

Pick you head up.......my DD is a public school 6th grader. I just asked her what a prepositional phrase is and she replied 

 

"Something in English" !!!!!

 

She then did the Easy Grammar Elementary placement test and left 1/3 of it blank

 

Me: Digging my head out of the sand......

[Farrar]

If you're interested in Brave Writer, you might consider doing Partnership Writing instead of Faltering Ownership. The ages are just suggestions. Many of the assignments can be beefed up if needed, but if he is a reluctant writer, the projects in PW are really fun - FO is so new that I haven't done any of them yet, but they seem like they're going to be less "fun" overall. Which is fine, but if your goal in using BW would be to get him to enjoy writing and feel more confident, you might start with something else.

 

But don't go overboard. It sounds like you're trying to make decisions and start things. Do one thing at a time. You're adding AAS now? Maybe just let that sink in for a few weeks and then add the next thing, whether it's a grammar program or writing or what. And I wouldn't try to do too many approaches. Think about what he needs. WWE is very parts to whole - it really dismantles and breaks down the writing process which some kids need. Brave Writer is very whole to parts - it approaches it more as a whole, something to try and work out and that anyone is capable of with the right level of support. Just something to think about.

[SnMomof7]

Oh yes. Jennifer Bogart recommended CLE for LA. I think that is a possibility as well. My head is spinning.

 

I would like to get this going this year. So need to make decisions soon.

 

Thank you for any help.

We do like CLE LA. If you were interested, it would be important to have your DS take the LA placement test. He might place in 4th from the sounds of it. That is a fairly easy starting point. 6th is not, it's pretty rigorous.

 

CLE LA includes spelling but does NOT teach spelling rules in 4th and up if that is something you're looking for (we use Rod and Staff for those grades). It does cover grammar VERY well, along with punctuation, usage, homophones, using reference material (4th includes dictionary work and encyclopedias, I believe), all those LA topics that I forget to teach, and also includes basic expository writing.

 

That might be a plus for your son. It is VERY step by step with clear instructions written directly to the student, and there aren't a large number of writing assignments (could be a pro or a con depending on your goals). If you place appropriately, it is very easy to get done consistently.

 

Let me know if you have any questions :).

[woolybear]

If you're interested in Brave Writer, you might consider doing Partnership Writing instead of Faltering Ownership. The ages are just suggestions. Many of the assignments can be beefed up if needed, but if he is a reluctant writer, the projects in PW are really fun - FO is so new that I haven't done any of them yet, but they seem like they're going to be less "fun" overall. Which is fine, but if your goal in using BW would be to get him to enjoy writing and feel more confident, you might start with something else.

 

But don't go overboard. It sounds like you're trying to make decisions and start things. Do one thing at a time. You're adding AAS now? Maybe just let that sink in for a few weeks and then add the next thing, whether it's a grammar program or writing or what. And I wouldn't try to do too many approaches. Think about what he needs. WWE is very parts to whole - it really dismantles and breaks down the writing process which some kids need. Brave Writer is very whole to parts - it approaches it more as a whole, something to try and work out and that anyone is capable of with the right level of support. Just something to think about.

I just purchased Faltering Ownership and after looking at it, had the same thought- that maybe I should take a step back and start with Partnering, but I can't really put out another $50 right now.

 

I think adding in one thing at a time is a good idea. I don't have the spelling yet, but I have English Lessons Through Literature. I am starting with that. I will be doing BW lifestyle, plus copywork. Maybe hold off on FO.

 

Thanks for the input.