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Struggling with writing


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I need some advice for my ODS. He absolutely hates writing, both the physical act of it and putting down thoughts. I try not to make him do too much, but I feel like at 8 he should be doing some writing on his own whether it be for school or fun. He strugglings putting thoughts into complete sentences (they are usually phrases or run on sentences) and when he writes it's usually phrases or one word answers. We do copy work, we are currently using Write Shop for our writing program, but it requires a lot of help from me. Any suggestions on how to help him in the process of getting his thoughts onto paper?

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My first thought is that he could have a Learning Challenge related to writing.

 

What program if any are you using for writing?

 

If you've not looked at it yet, I'd suggest you look at Bravewriter.

 

Requiring a lot of help may be normal for his stage of writing, and in general, writing tends to be teacher intensive.

 

Can he dictate to you so that he does not have to physically do the act of writing and focus just on trying to articulate his thoughts in words?

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My first thought is that he could have a Learning Challenge related to writing.

 

What program if any are you using for writing?

 

If you've not looked at it yet, I'd suggest you look at Bravewriter.

 

Requiring a lot of help may be normal for his stage of writing, and in general, writing tends to be teacher intensive.

 

Can he dictate to you so that he does not have to physically do the act of writing and focus just on trying to articulate his thoughts in words?

 

:iagree:

 

Bravewriter fans here.... and their online classes have worked well too. Getting positive feedback and suggestions from someone other than 'mom' worked wonders. 

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Brave Writer! Brave Writer!

 

I think I'd first say that you don't need to think about him as being learning challenged. A lot of kids at 8 struggle to get their own thoughts down onto paper. Be patient and continue that copywork. You're doing just the right thing. I don't know a ton about Write Shop, but it's okay if he needs help from you in general. Think of it this way - you're breaking writing into all these discrete skills - there's the handwriting piece, there's the getting the mechanics and spelling down piece (those are covered by copywork), and then there's the formulating interesting thoughts and having a strong voice piece - just because you can do the first two doesn't mean they're going to connect to this big third piece right away. So instead you scribe those interesting thoughts for him or help him get them out by not worrying about the mechanics piece so much when he writes himself. 

 

Of course, if Write Shop doesn't feel like it's getting you anywhere, you might want to move on. Like I said, we're Brave Writer fans... You could look at Jot It Down as a possible entry into BW - it's a set of projects as well as some explanation of how to implement the BW lifestyle (yes, "lifestyle" sounds cheesy, but it's really about thinking of all the things you do for language as a greater part of your writing program - it's about taking a relaxed approach to writing while still doing a lot to help a kid get where he needs to go). There's also a ton on the BW blog.

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It really is normal for an eight year old to not be writing yet. I would strongly recommend giving him more time, gently keeping up copywork and spelling but nothing that reduces him to tears or causes anxiety.

 

I understand your frustration--I had to wait until my son was 11 before he was truly motivated to learn to write. Before that we had tried various things, but what really clicked for him was using IEW. It breaks up the writing process into clear cut steps, even in the beginning removing the "what to write" (a huge, common stumbling block). There have been a ton of threads on IEW lately that you might want to browse.

 

Please don't jump to the conclusion that your son needs labeling unless there are strong indicators that he has underlying issues. Many, many, many 8 year old boys aren't writing yet, and many of those learn to hate it because they are pushed into it before they are ready. I WISH I had been more calm about it when DS was younger, but waiting until HE was ready was essential. As a result, in just a few months he went from super anxiety to happily writing (good!!) multi page essays. Really.

 

The right writing program can help tremendously in reducing or removing the fear and breaking down the process into something that makes sense. But I'm a huge advocate of waiting until the time is right, and as homeschoolers we get to have that flexibility.

 

Good luck.

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Thank you for the suggestions and words of encouragement!  I think I'll continue with Write Shop for next year, but look into Brave Writer and IEW for the year after.  I have heard so many great things about IEW and I may just need to get over the cost and take the plunge.  This mama may just need to allow him to slow down and do things at his rate!  The beauty of hsing, right? 

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Does your kiddo have problems "thinking" in complete sentences, or writing them?  (As another poster mentioned, there's a relationship between the two, but also an important difference.)

 

If you read something and ask your son to answer it in a complete sentence, can he do it?  If not, it's not a writing mechanics issue, but a thinking-through-and-articulating issue.  Either of these seems pretty normal to me at 8, since there's so much variability at that age...  But identifying exactly what the sticking point is might be helpful.  The thinking part has to come first, because writing is nothing more than making thinking visible.  Once he knows what he wants to say, then it's a pretty straightforward (but potentially tedious to a little one!)  process to translating that to paper and following all the conventions.

 

I started my kid with with oral sentences, and I'd have to remind my DD *every single time* for what seemed like years to restate her answer in the form of a complete sentence. And then I'd copy it down for her and have her read it back, and together we'd fix it the way she wanted it fixed; it was more important to me that she understand what she wanted to say than that she actually wrote it.   We didn't start writing in earnest until 4th grade.  (We used First Language Lessons the first four years, which perfectly fit my philosophy of teaching grammar/writing.  The main reason I started hsing was because I thought kids in ps were pushed too hard too soon to write, long before they'd been provided with the skills and experience to be successful--and the results I was hearing from PS teachers were predictably abysmal.  As a professional writer, I was willing to die on this hill.)

 

Now that my kiddo is finishing up 5th grade, she's able to write well.  (Still hates being assigned writing projects, but will do a decent job on them... and will write pages and pages when it's something she's passionate about.  Beautifully constructed sentences!  Her spelling isn't great, but that'll come eventually.  I'm a big believer in nailing the big chunks first, and refining later.)

 

Sounds to me like you're doing everything right.  You're sensitive to pushback but searching out ways to get your kiddo (eventually) where you want him to be.  Kudos!

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8 is too young to officially call him struggling in writing.  My own 8yo can put interesting ideas into words OR he can get words on paper nicely, but not at the same time just yet. I think that is perfectly normal developmentally.

 

 

 

Keep separating the skills for him. Pull oral narrations without any expectation of writing them down, at least once a day...2-3 oral narrations daily would see some serious maturation.  Then, do daily copywork and spelling with a smattering of grammar. I think I would spend the rest of this year ramping up copywork, focusing on visualizing the spellings of the words and noticing the punctuation. Cover the passage to copy with a separate piece of paper and write as much as he can from memory.  Peek as needed, but make it a competition with himself to see how few times he needs a peek.  

 

Don't take a full summer break off from oral narrations and copywork.

 

 

My personal thoughts are that most kids truly do want to write on their own, but they reach a point where they are keenly aware of their misspellings and grammatical mistakes, yet don't know how to fix it. If you keep teaching him those mechanics while simultaneously working on putting ideas into words, he will reach a point where he's brave enough to write his thoughts down or make stories or plans or pass notes to friends.  He will want to write.  At that point, a writing curriculum will be of greater benefit. jmvho

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I need some advice for my ODS. He absolutely hates writing, both the physical act of it and putting down thoughts. I try not to make him do too much, but I feel like at 8 he should be doing some writing on his own whether it be for school or fun. He strugglings putting thoughts into complete sentences (they are usually phrases or run on sentences) and when he writes it's usually phrases or one word answers. We do copy work, we are currently using Write Shop for our writing program, but it requires a lot of help from me. Any suggestions on how to help him in the process of getting his thoughts onto paper?

 

He's only 8. I would not expect an 8yo to be doing writing on his own. I would expect him to "struggle" putting thoughts into complete sentences. I have no expectations of a child that young having to put his own thoughts onto paper.

 

Personally, Write Shop overwhelmed me. I think it's an amazingly cumbersome method of teaching writing. It it requires a lot of help from you, and you're still not seeing the results you had hoped for, then possibly it isn't the right thing for your ds, either.

 

With a child that young, I would be more inclined to do Writing Strands, Level 2, or possibly Level 3.

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First, just because he is 8 doesn't mean he should be doing some writing on his own for fun. That might never happen - that is a matter of personal interests, so don't be discouraged or think something is wrong if he doesn't write for fun.

 

Second, I would make sure there weren't any hidden difficulties - anything from pencil grip/writing posture to a languaged based learning disability. Land consider learning styles of your child vs the curriculum. My ds10 has a hard time (hates writing) partly because his thoughts are grandiose, but his ability to parse them and communicate them isn't there, which leaves him frustrated. WWE was a horrible match!

 

Third, if he doesn't LIKE to write but NEEDS to you might have more success in a structured, spelled out program than one which is more open.

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Thanks again for all the suggestions and things to think about.   It's been on my mind and I've been observing him more when he has been required to write.  I know that he is able to make complete sentences both in his thoughts and verbally.  He is an extremely articulate child with a large vocabulary.  I know that he doesn't like the physical act of writing, but I am also wondering if some of the issue is that his vocabulary outweighs his spelling ability.  When he does dictate things to me they are well thought through and put together as complete thoughts.  Maybe writing those out is just overwhelming for him. We'll just continue working with copywork, narrations and taking it at his pace!

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Thanks again for all the suggestions and things to think about. It's been on my mind and I've been observing him more when he has been required to write. I know that he is able to make complete sentences both in his thoughts and verbally. He is an extremely articulate child with a large vocabulary. I know that he doesn't like the physical act of writing, but I am also wondering if some of the issue is that his vocabulary outweighs his spelling ability. When he does dictate things to me they are well thought through and put together as complete thoughts. Maybe writing those out is just overwhelming for him. We'll just continue working with copywork, narrations and taking it at his pace!

Yes, yes, yes!

 

My son was that way too, and is finally narrowing the gap. Huge vocabulary + deep and complex thought process + absolute awareness of his own inability to spell well and convey everything in his brain on paper = major writers block and panic. Of course it does! The same thing happened with his speech when he was younger--everyone around us was concerned about his speech (his therapist called it severe apraxia) yet he'd always communicated just fine. Even as new parents we *knew* there was a just a disconnect, an inability to get everything in his brain out of his mouth and that it just needed time. We were right. Writing is just another manifestation of that.

 

It sounds like your son is doing just fine and is on the right track. Good for you, mama! :)

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Thanks again for all the suggestions and things to think about.   It's been on my mind and I've been observing him more when he has been required to write.  I know that he is able to make complete sentences both in his thoughts and verbally.  He is an extremely articulate child with a large vocabulary.  I know that he doesn't like the physical act of writing, but I am also wondering if some of the issue is that his vocabulary outweighs his spelling ability.  When he does dictate things to me they are well thought through and put together as complete thoughts.  Maybe writing those out is just overwhelming for him. We'll just continue working with copywork, narrations and taking it at his pace!

 

 

Yes, and it is normal for an 8yo to have this huge working vocabulary and still be at a beginner's spelling level and feel frustrated at the expectation of writing below his intellect and yet above his mechanical skill level.

 

 

Keep plugging along in both areas separately and they will come together.  Merge them together with carefully studied dictations.

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