1-2-3 Magic....can anyone explain it in a nutshell?

[BatmansWife]

I don't post much on this particular board...but I didn't think the homeschool curriculum board would be the place to ask this.   :001_smile:

 

I've recently starting babysitting two kids, ages 8 and 9.  They both have issues.  The mom implements 1-2-3 Magic, supposedly (I'm not sure if it's on a regular basis).  I actually did read the book years ago, but I never implemented it because it turned out I never needed to.  I've been lucky that my kids have always been really good and well behaved.  By now I don't remember what's in the book...I could read the book again, if I really need to.  But, gosh...I have enough to do.  Can anyone give me the jist of how it works?  

[SeaConquest]

I can tell you how it works in our house:

 

Me: Sacha, please do X.

If Sacha ignores me...

Me: 1

If Sacha still ignores me...

Me: 2

If Sacha still ignores me...

Me: If I get to 3, Y is going to happen.

Sacha does X, or I count to 3 and Y happens.

Thankfully, I seldom get to 3. Surprisingly, it still works 99% of the time with my 6 year old.

 

[amo_mea_filiis.]

What is your Y, and does X still get done?

[SeaConquest]

My Y varies, but is usually some sort of natural consequence of not doing X. It can also involve taking away screen time (because that is my son's currency). We do not spank or do timeouts. And yes, X generally still gets done, usually after a discussion about how we treat other people, how we function as a family, how we help each other, etc.

 

Some things would go straight to a 3. For example, hitting another person.

[lauranc]

I read this book many, many years ago.  I didn't care for the technique:

But, basically you get 1, 2 chances and then 3: You're Out  (time out, maybe??  I can't remember--- I never used time out with my kids-- so maybe that's why this 'method' didn't appeal to me:  I didn't really buy into any of it)

 

 

[BatmansWife]

OK...this helps a little.  Thanks.

 

Yeah...we've never did time out either.  Basically I want X to happen when I say it and I don't even want to get to a number 1.   :lol:  But...we'll see how this goes with the other kids.  

[Joanne]

I would recommend Love and Logic, instead.

 

Children in other care benefit from:

 

1. Predictable structure and routine
2. Expectation of study time, downtime,
3. Some kind of connection/affection between child and caregiver

Gotta go, more later.

 

 

[Tsuga]

Count to three or else.

 

Helps if "or else" is swift, directly related to the offense / need, and realistic I.e. You can make it happen anywhere, from the grocery store to a church pew to lunch at home with a nursing baby on the boob.

 

It's not "magic" but it works.

 

Also, count fast every time. No games.

[idnib]

I've never read the book and am probably doing it wrong. But it's helped with math!

 

I count backwards because otherwise the kids, when young, think I can go higher. Later, they figure out negative numbers ("What if you keep counting down?") Also, if I realized they truly are trying but I've counted too fast, they get to learn about fractions. Bonus!

 

OK, so maybe it's not a good technique for us for discipline.  :D

[wendy not in HI]

I don't love the technique for my kids, but I have used something similar in group learning situation.  Saying something like, "please put your notebooks away in 5, 4, 3, 2,...."  If I get to "1" I make sure whatever I asked for happens immediately.  There is often a consequence at 1 - like the toy becomes mine.  Or the chance to choose which seat to sit in is now mine, with a "you can try again next time before I get to 1"

 

The thing I do like about it, is it encourages ME to make sure to follow through.  It gives me a deadline, too, you know?  It doesn't allow me to repeat myself (oh how I hate to hear a parent asking for the same thing over and over and over again without follow through...) it requires me to take action, too!  

 

When I have introduced the concept to a group of kids, and show how it works a few times, I can often get to the point of silent countdown - getting attention, and then counting down with my fingers!

 

It is only magic when you can keep yourself uninvolved emotionally.  Getting angry during the countdown can just ruin the whole dynamic.  A big huffy breath while dragging myself out of a chair to follow up tends to get everyone moving in a downward spiral.  But calm leadership can keep everyone moving in the right direction. (sometimes easier said than done!)

 

Best of luck!

[Guest]

I used it at one time when my kids were little and it did work for me, but I also didn't need to use the method for very long. The main thing that matters,is Joanne's Get Off Your Butt method, which is pretty much 1-2-3 without the counting. With GOYB, the important thing is that whatever you said was going to happen happens rapidly. So, in my household, it looked like this:

 

"M, you need to put the Legos in the bin now."

*M ignores me, continues playing.*

*I get off my butt, go to the Lego bin and say, "M, put the Legos in the bin now. I'll help." At this point, he is either cooperating, or I am moving his hand like a puppeteer to put the Legos away.

 

If doing the 1-2-3 method, it comes to the same thing, except you count after each statement of the desired behavior.

 

eta: clarity

[Farrar]

I would recommend Love and Logic, instead.

 

Children in other care benefit from:

 

1. Predictable structure and routine
2. Expectation of study time, downtime,
3. Some kind of connection/affection between child and caregiver

Gotta go, more later.

 

I totally agree with this... but the element of consistency is removed if it's one way at the babysitter's house and another at mom's. If I was in a long term, regular sitting relationship and the "issues" you mention aren't severe, I might want to do something more like Love and Logic and help the kids try to see my home or presence as the cue that this is how things will be when I'm around. Or, hey, it sounds like the OP really has a handle on something that works for her and you might just want to incorporate them into your family culture and expectations. However, if this is a temporary situation, or an occasional sitting thing, I feel like I might just want to go by what the mom does. It takes time to build this sort of trust and relationship and if you're only going to see these kids every few weeks or something or will only be sitting them for a few weeks, then I might just want to go by the mom's system - assuming that you can make the "y" in the example above something that is something you're comfortable or something like a logical consequence. And then I might suggest to the mom other resources to look at like this, especially if she's struggling.

[Daria]

I’m going to start off by saying that I read the 1, 2, 3 Magic book 20 some years ago, and that, as a result, I may have strayed pretty far from what they suggest.  However, in my job as a special ed teacher, it is one of the staples of my practice in the years when I’ve taught 3 – 10 year olds.  I’ve also used it as a parent, but I happen to have one very easygoing compliant kid, so I didn’t need it as much.

 

In my experience 1, 2, 3 Magic works best with behaviors that kids do semi-consciously, that we’re trying to bring to their consciousness so they can be our partner in fixing them (e.g. whining, pulling against your hand when you’re walking together), or for habits that we used to allow or tolerate, but that they’re ready to replace with something more age appropriate (e.g. calling for you to come to then, rather than coming and find you when they need you).  Or behavior that can be situationally appropriate, but you don’t want at the moment (e.g. playing noisily when the baby is sleeping, or during a church service).   In school, I also use it a lot for behavior that “works†for a kid at home, but that I don’t want to see at school (e.g. cursing).

 

The way it works for me is that I make it clear what behavior I want them to change, and what strategies I want them to use.  I usually provide some coaching or scaffolded practice, and then I let them try it on their own.  If they have difficulty, I use 1 and 2 as a short hand for “please fix thatâ€.   If we get to 3 then I step in and help them fix it.

 

Here’s an example:

 

4 year old has a new baby sibling who is outgrowing that “sleep anywhere anytime†stage and moving into more structured naps.  For the past few days, Big Sister’s woken up the baby with loud happy play with her cars and trucks.   She’s not misbehaving, she’s playing the same way she’s played for the past few years, but because the situation has changed, I’d like her to change her behavior. 

 

So, today at the start of naptime, I whisper “It’s kinda nice when the baby’s asleep isn’t it, we can do big kid things!  Do you want to do some play dough?† Big Sister nods, she loves playdough!  So we go downstairs and play playdough.  While we’re playing playdough, I keep my voice to a whisper, and my movements calm, and she naturally follows suit.  I comment a couple times that we’re playing quietly because of the baby.  When she starts to get bored with the playdough, I say to her “I am so proud of you, you kept your voice quiet the whole time we played playdough!  The baby is still asleep.  Do you want to play with your cars?† Of course she says yes! So I whisper “OK, but remember to play quietly with your cars.  Keep your voice quiet, just like you did during the playdough.†And I get out the cars.

 

She’s 4, so of course she forgets.  After a few seconds, I hear a siren noise that’s louder than I like, so I reach over and put my hand gently on her shoulder, or I whisper her name, when she turns I shake my head slightly, smile and put my finger to my lips, and it works! She plays quietly for a whole 30 seconds.  The next time she makes noise, I put up one finger, or I whisper “That’s oneâ€.  It’s her cue to use the strategies we practiced during playdough.  She remembers and holds her finger to her own lips.  Again, it works, for a while, and then it doesn’t, so I say “That’s two†or hold up 2 fingers.

 

The third time, it’s my turn to pick a strategy.  In this case, I go to her and take her hand, we walk to the spot in our living room that’s farthest from the baby’s room.  I get down on her level, make eye contact and say “That’s three, remember that it’s time to play quietly.  Can you take a couple deep breaths, and think about playing quietly?† She does, and I lead her back, thank her for trying so hard and let her play again. 

 

If she starts being loud right away, then I don’t go back to 1 again.  I simply bring out a new strategy.  I might go to her again, separate her from the activity and tell her “It seems like cars are really hard to play quietly, let’s pick something else.  I’m going to put the cars away, would you like to draw, or look at a book?†

 

On the other hand, if she makes a concerted effort to try (which, in a four year old might be 1 or 2 minutes of quieter play), then I’m likely to start back at one, and work my way up.  If we make it to 3 again, then I’ll do the same thing I described above with changing activities.  If I think she’s trying, I’m more likely to stop the play session at a point when she’s doing well and say something like “I am so proud of how you’ve been playing quietly and letting Baby sleep.  Do you want to . . . . (insert something that she enjoys that’s easier to do quietly like “go eat a snack†or “read a book togetherâ€), and we’d end on a high note.   When the baby wakes up, I let her know “Oooh, Baby’s up.  I need to go change her diaper.  Do you want to go play cars some more?  Now you don’t have to be so quietâ€.    That way she’s not confused about my expectations. 

 

1, 2, 3 Magic is one of many tools in my toolbox.  I don’t view it as something I do instead other techniques.  There are also plenty of times when it isn’t the right tool.  It’s not the right tool for significant misbehavior.  I would never 1, 2, a child who is hitting, for example.  That’s behavior I’m going to address the first time.  In my experience, it works best when you’ve made your expectations clear, and when you use it immediately after the behavior starts.  So, if you’ve set an expectation that your kid will walk next to the cart in the grocery store, then you say “one†when they first wander away, so that it functions like saying “rememberâ€.  If you let your kid wander off, and run wild for a few minutes, and then when you notice the people staring at you yell “Jimmy, that’s one, get back hereâ€, then you’ve just trained your kid to ignore your expectations until your second warning.   Finally, like every other tool in your repertoire, it will work best with clear developmentally appropriate expectations, in the context of a strong parent-child or caregiver/teacher-child relationship.

 

[Joanne]

I totally agree with this... but the element of consistency is removed if it's one way at the babysitter's house and another at mom's. If I was in a long term, regular sitting relationship and the "issues" you mention aren't severe, I might want to do something more like Love and Logic and help the kids try to see my home or presence as the cue that this is how things will be when I'm around. Or, hey, it sounds like the OP really has a handle on something that works for her and you might just want to incorporate them into your family culture and expectations. However, if this is a temporary situation, or an occasional sitting thing, I feel like I might just want to go by what the mom does. It takes time to build this sort of trust and relationship and if you're only going to see these kids every few weeks or something or will only be sitting them for a few weeks, then I might just want to go by the mom's system - assuming that you can make the "y" in the example above something that is something you're comfortable or something like a logical consequence. And then I might suggest to the mom other resources to look at like this, especially if she's struggling.

 

 

I found (running 2 daycares) that kids can learn rules and structure in my setting regardless of their home setting.

[Daria]

I found (running 2 daycares) that kids can learn rules and structure in my setting regardless of their home setting.

 

I agree.  Kids, especially 8 and 9 year olds, adjust pretty differently to different rules and expectations in different places.  I think in some ways it's more confusing when you have rules that seem the same but aren't really the same (e.g. mom waits until she's annoyed and then counts slowly, babysitter counts for the first infraction and counts quickly) than when the structures are different and transparent.

[Guest]

I agree. Kids, especially 8 and 9 year olds, adjust pretty differently to different rules and expectations in different places. I think in some ways it's more confusing when you have rules that seem the same but aren't really the same (e.g. mom waits until she's annoyed and then counts slowly, babysitter counts for the first infraction and counts quickly) than when the structures are different and transparent.

Yes, you can even see kids behaving poorly for one parent or caretaker, while they behave much better with a different parent or caretaker. They have learned that Miss Jo will brook no nonsense, even if Mama will.

[Farrar]

I found (running 2 daycares) that kids can learn rules and structure in my setting regardless of their home setting.

 

I agree, but that's why I said it depended on the sitting situation. In a daycare, that's a long term relationship where you can make that work. If she's only going to see them once a month or something, I wouldn't feel like it would be worth it to try and establish those rules. I'd go by the mom's system assuming it was something I could live with.

[Reefgazer]

This is how we implemented it when the kids were young.  I would just add that it is important to not get angry and keep a calm demeanor and tone when counting, and to follow through consistently with any consequences if you do finally get to three.  We do not spank or give timeouts either, and pulling privileges were our consequences. 

 

I imagine there are a few kids for whom this wouldn't work, but it really worked fast on my kids and a few neighborhood kids I know who's parents used it.  It would probably even work in a babysitting setting, if the kids were used to the system because the parents used it.

I can tell you how it works in our house:

 

Me: Sacha, please do X.

If Sacha ignores me...

Me: 1

If Sacha still ignores me...

Me: 2

If Sacha still ignores me...

Me: If I get to 3, Y is going to happen.

Sacha does X, or I count to 3 and Y happens.

Thankfully, I seldom get to 3. Surprisingly, it still works 99% of the time with my 6 year old.

 

[poppy]

I think 8 and 9 is  a little old for 1,2,3.  My almost-7 year old is now counting with me in a mocking voice (which she DOES get in trouble for trust me).  Just be prepared to adjust the pattern or your speaking tone a bit to not treat them like little kids, if necessary. 

[Reefgazer]

Yes, implementing it calmly was critical to success in this household.

I don't love the technique for my kids, but I have used something similar in group learning situation.  Saying something like, "please put your notebooks away in 5, 4, 3, 2,...."  If I get to "1" I make sure whatever I asked for happens immediately.  There is often a consequence at 1 - like the toy becomes mine.  Or the chance to choose which seat to sit in is now mine, with a "you can try again next time before I get to 1"

 

The thing I do like about it, is it encourages ME to make sure to follow through.  It gives me a deadline, too, you know?  It doesn't allow me to repeat myself (oh how I hate to hear a parent asking for the same thing over and over and over again without follow through...) it requires me to take action, too!  

 

When I have introduced the concept to a group of kids, and show how it works a few times, I can often get to the point of silent countdown - getting attention, and then counting down with my fingers!

 

It is only magic when you can keep yourself uninvolved emotionally.  Getting angry during the countdown can just ruin the whole dynamic.  A big huffy breath while dragging myself out of a chair to follow up tends to get everyone moving in a downward spiral.  But calm leadership can keep everyone moving in the right direction. (sometimes easier said than done!)

 

Best of luck!

 

[BatmansWife]

I think 8 and 9 is  a little old for 1,2,3.  My almost-7 year old is now counting with me in a mocking voice (which she DOES get in trouble for trust me).  Just be prepared to adjust the pattern or your speaking tone a bit to not treat them like little kids, if necessary. 

 

Normally I would agree with you.  But the 8 year is more like a 4 year old and the 9 year old has her own set of troubles too.  

 

Thank you everyone!  I have not had to start counting yet.  Right now I'm with them for about an hour before they get on the school bus, and sometimes for a few hours after school.  In the summer the days will be really long though.  I got a taste of that this spring break where I had them 3 full days.  It went ok...not perfect, but ok.