ELTL vs. LLATL?

[vaquitita]

I was planning to use ELTL and CtGE (selected exercises) next year. But now I've stumbled onto LLATL and I wonder how these two compare?

[CelticHaiku]

Listening

[Hunter]

I was planning to use ELTL and CtGE (selected exercises) next year. But now I've stumbled onto LLATL and I wonder how these two compare?

That would be a lot of overlap and still some missing subjects, at least in the upper levels. I'm not sure which levels you are planning to use. CtGE does have a lot of phonics and spelling in the earlier levels.

 

ELTL uses public domain texts. That is a HUGE plus at least to ME. Author support is OUTSTANDING.

 

LLATL has been around long enough you can sometimes get used copies of the TM's dirt cheap. It is as complete as I want it to be. I don't find it outdated, but then...*I* am outdated so that is not saying much I guess. :lol: Staying stocked with the literature has been a problem for me, with transient tutoring students. I just bought a new scanner, though, and may be able to resolve this situation.

[vaquitita]

Nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[PentecostalMom]

I was planning to use ELTL and CtGE (selected exercises) next year. But now I've stumbled onto LLATL and I wonder how these two compare?

 

FWIW, I am not familiar with ELTL.  I am familiar with CtGE and LLATL.  Like Hunter, I also think LLATL is a complete and solid curriculum.  While the definition of rigor varies from person to person, the definition of complete should not.  I used it with my oldest ds a number of years ago, he was an outstanding writer and his grammar was impeccable.  Some students need supplementation, a shoring up so to speak, in some areas, and his was spelling.  We went through a remedial spelling book for older students and he quickly became a proficient speller as well.  There is no guarantee with any program that a certain child may or may not need additional help in one area or another.  However, it has all of the components of a complete and thorough LA program.  I am actually about to begin this again with one of my dds after using FLL and WWE for a bit.  I think she will flourish in this program.  She is a struggling speller and I will continue AAS with her for the time being. 

[vaquitita]

Nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[sweetpea3829]

We tried LLATL, blue through yellow and it in no way simplified our language arts routine.  If anything, it complicated our language arts routine because I had to spend so much time shoring it up.  Some folks have a lot of luck with it.  Us?  Its reading selections were subpar  ("The White Stallion?  For 3rd grade?).  The spelling in the early levels is practically nonexistent.  Maybe its just me but...I don't consider throwing a handful of words (5, maybe 6) on a page to be adequate spelling for 2nd grade.  

 

Thus far, there has been very little in the way of actual writing instruction.  Yes, there are some writing activities (write a letter, etc) but actual instruction?  Very little.  In its defense, we are only on 3rd grade and perhaps the writing instruction improves in later levels.  

 

About the only part of LLATL that was decent was the grammar.  

 

So...I had to supplement the reading selections, the spelling, and the writing.  Add in that it is very outdated, and we have given up on it.  

 

I have pretty much given up on ever finding a good all-in-one LA.  LLATL was so appealing because...for everything that is weak about it, it IS complete and a student using it through high school will have a thorough LA education.  

 

I just can't bring myself to use it anymore.  

[Hunter]

Well I finally got the search to work for me. There is not a lot of LLATL love on these boards. Lol.

 

LLATL covers: grammar, reading, spelling, vocabulary, writing mechanics, creative writing

I'm using, and probably wish to continue, AAR and AAS. ELTL covers grammar and writing. Vocabulary... I don't feel a need for a program for this now, if that changes later I'll figure something out then. So using LLATL won't simplify anything for me. ELTL might be simpler for me, because I can print the copy work in the vertical cursive I taught my kids.

 

If I like ELTL, then I should probably drop CtGE. I'm assuming ELTL will cover all the writing that CGE covers. I like CGE, I don't even know why. Lol. Maybe cause part of me panics over teaching four kids and wants independent. And the whole one room school house vibe. Lol. But the other part of me loves ELTL, it's how I'd like to teach. Or atleast makes me feel like I haven't totally abandoned CM even though I've ditched AO? Well, I've simplified other things, so I think I'll go with ELTL and drop CGE. If at some point independent grammar and writing becomes necessary, then maybe I'll go back to it.

I would drop CtGE if using ELTL. Wayfarers and ELTL are awesome for the person wanting to do CM/Neoclassical with REAL children in 2015. I am really impressed with the author's choices and adaptions IF a family is committed to slow readings and a 4 year rotation and some of those other things.

 

I do have a special love for LLATL, especially Orange through Gold. Yellow I can take or leave. I have no use for Red and Blue. Orange can drive some people batty, too, with the oldschool research paper requiring a snailmail request, but I like that.

 

LLATL is NOT going to be loved at THIS board. It is not neoclassical and rigorous enough for many here. It is based on Ruth Beechick's back to basics views of education, not TWTM.

[Hunter]

I also wanted say that CtGE is more than LLATL for the subjects that are covered in CtGE. CtGE is meant to be combined with Pathways readers and vocabulary workbooks, separate spelling, separate handwriting, and independent book reports. The entire Amish package is an excellent but very time consuming curriculum.

 

LLATL is just ONE book for all those subjects. It's going to be less. It's triage.

 

The original LLATL listed a set of books that the teacher was expected to own, have read, and be VERY familiar with. Five word spelling lists are from the Three R's and explained there. The later editions of LLATL not only dropped being based on those books, but don't even direct you to or give proper credit to the methods still used. When the new edition of LLATL came out, there were people that chose not to update, and there are people that still track down and use the older spiral edition version.

 

I do like the older edition better in general, but the program really changed as it was being written and I find the old orange and purple a jarring addition sandwiched between the levels that were written first. The revised edition offers more consistency. I don't think I would FULLY appreciate the revised LLATL without having used and read some the original books, and the books recommended, some of which are now OOP.

[Hunter]

Vaquitita,

 

Make sure you check out the DIY thread as a lot of LLATL info is being posted there.

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/547404-diy-language-arts/

 

I hate the holidays and get extra confued during them. I'm posting to distract myself, but I'm not at my best. I'm not really keeping track of what I've posted where and even if it's the best thread for the information. Sorry.

[vaquitita]

I would drop CtGE if using ELTL. Wayfarers and ELTL are awesome for the person wanting to do CM/Neoclassical with REAL children in 2015. I am really impressed with the author's choices and adaptions IF a family is committed to slow readings and a 4 year rotation and some of those other things.

 

I do have a special love for LLATL, especially Orange through Gold. Yellow I can take or leave. I have no use for Red and Blue. Orange can drive some people batty, too, with the oldschool research paper requiring a snailmail request, but I like that.

 

LLATL is NOT going to be loved at THIS board. It is not neoclassical and rigorous enough for many here. It is based on Ruth Beechick's back to basics views of education, not TWTM.

I think most of my personal education came from copious free reading, so I want to leave lots of time for that too. So I don't have a problem with LLATL not being 'enough'. I think the research project using snailmail sounds good! But im having trouble letting go of AAR/AAS, in which case it doesn't simplify things for me more than ELTL would. And ELTL simplifies things for me that LLATL wouldnt (cursive copywork, art study).

 

The thing that worries me with ELTL is I'm not sure what it's goals are. What exactly is progymnasia in the end? This is the problem I've had with AO, their goals are not my goals. With AO/TWTM, I figure I just won't worry about completing the whole 12 years. We'll take it at our own pace and stop when we've had enough. I don't know how well that works though. So far the wayfarers book selections seem to be a great fit for my kids.

 

Right now I'm leaning towards trying ELTL next year and just see how it goes. If it doesn't work out great for us, I could try LLATL Orange the following year.

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[vaquitita]

Maybe LLATL combines what appeals to me about CGE with what appeals to me about ELTL? I wish there were bigger samples of LLATL. Used copies are cheap. I'm tempted to buy an orange TM just so I can get a really good look

 

My biggest draw for using ELTL next year might be the ease of being able to print out copy work in the correct font! Lol

[vaquitita]

Ugg. The more I look at these, the more confused I am. All of these programs are good, if you stick with them. I'm trying to be realistic about what I can handle. Baby 4 has kicked my butt, I am Tired. I need git r done.

 

I want to pick one of them and then stick with it. I may have to bar myself from these boards. Spend more time teaching and less time researching. Lol

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[vaquitita]

Nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[Hunter]

ELTL is awesome. You cannot go wrong with any of these choices. None of them are perfect and none of them are bad. There is no right or wrong choice and all in all, I'm not sure any choice is superior to the others, as a whole.

 

I guess number 1 I look at expense, total expense to accomplish not just this curriculum, but all of langauge arts.

 

Next I look at bulk in storing pieces.

 

Then I look at time for student spent on task, and my own need to prep and teach.

 

Lastly, do I really look if it's the "best" academically. I guess first I look if it's even in the ballpark, but then I guess it's last if it's really spot on perfect.

 

When I was a kid, we used to watch MIss America, and we didn't understand why often one of the least pretty women was chosen. First only reasonably pretty women were chosen and then OTHER criteria than beauty were used to narrow the selection down to the final choice. I don't watch such sexist stuff now, or think superficial beauty is important, but I think it's a good analogy to how I choose curriculum. Get in the ballpark, then stop looking for perfect, and look for doable.

[vaquitita]

ELTL is awesome. You cannot go wrong with any of these choices. None of them are perfect and none of them are bad. There is no right or wrong choice and all in all, I'm not sure any choice is superior to the others, as a whole.

This is what I finally told myself. They are all good choices, just pick one. And I ended up back where I started. Sheesh. Well, other than I realized that I don't need to continue CGE.

 

Looking at LLATL, it is what I really needed 5 years ago. When I was teaching my oldest using just RB's the three r's. I loved it, but was struggling to do all the leg work. LLATL would have been great then, I could have continued what I was doing but had it all laid out for me. Which makes it very tempting to use now.

[Hunter]

This is what I finally told myself. They are all good choices, just pick one. And I ended up back where I started. Sheesh. Well, other than I realized that I don't need to continue CGE.

 

Looking at LLATL, it is what I really needed 5 years ago. When I was teaching my oldest using just RB's the three r's. I loved it, but was struggling to do all the leg work. LLATL would have been great then, I could have continued what I was doing but had it all laid out for me. Which makes it very tempting to use now.

:grouphug: