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Stanford: Free Tuition For Families Making Under 125K/Full Ride Under 65K


SeaConquest
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Stanford has always been generous :-) 

Even many moons ago, 95% of my tuition was covered by scholarship money (including, of course, state & federal aid).

I am pleased to see them expanding their aid program.

 

Berkeley (a public school) can't offer as much, but it has also increased its aid; families making $80k or less now pay no tuition (in-state tuition amount), while families with incomes between $80k and $150k pay a maximum of 15% of tuition. In-state tuition is $12.8k next year.

 

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Many top schools tend to be the least expensive for many.  The main issue is getting in.  Someone on this board at one point did this:

 

X X X X X O X X X X

X X X X X X X X X X

O X X X X X X X X X

X X X X X X X X O X

X X X X X X X X X X

X X X X X X X X X X

X O X X X X X X O X

X X X X X X X X X X

X X X X X X X X X X

X X X X O X X X X X

 

Find the "Os?"  Those represent a 6% acceptance rate (higher than Stanford's).  All the Xs got rejected.  The Os were the fortunate apps.

 

THEN, consider half of those Os (give or take) came from the ED round - something those without certain financing are encouraged to skip.

 

'Tis not an easy task, esp when one considers the vast majority of apps are from worthy applicants.

 

I don't want to discourage anyone from trying.  We definitely appreciate our colleges that have been terrific with getting our financing down to our EFC.  I just want everyone to stay realistic with odds so that they keep Plan Bs.

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This is why we can foster Ds' Ivy League dreams.  We are in the "full ride" catagory.  It is actually cheaper for our son to shoot for Ivy than for State U.

 

 

We are in the full ride category for the Ivy type schools too, but we are not putting all of our hopes and dreams into that basket.  DD has considered applying to one or two Ivies and Duke, but those acceptance rates are so low that they are required to turn away amazing people.  I've heard of kids with perfect test scores not making the cut.  Only 1/10 of 1 percent of students make a perfect ACT score - and even they aren't guaranteed admissions.  I would love for dd to get into a highly selective school because it would be much cheaper for her.  We are on the search for good schools with more reasonable acceptance rates to apply to as well.

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Dont forget the key phrase 'and you have typical assets.' In other words, your parents havent passed on and left you assets,, and you have bought a pricy enough home and timed your vehicle purchases. Keep your money invested, and you will be paying full price if you are an older professional parent. Son at state U meets a lot of doctor's and other professional's children who dont want to pay full freight at an ivy or nyu.

 

I don't quite understand what you mean with this.

 

Probably because I'm not in this category.  LOL

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Also keep in mind that when you are applying to top schools, academics and test scores are not the only factors. Kids need major leadership roles, meaningful contributions to the community, etc. There are definitely kids on this forum I see very competitive for Ivys bc of their ECs (EOO's ds and dmmetler's dd are two who come to mind.)

 

But, my current 10th grader, for example, she is an incredibly strong academic student with an interesting educational background, but she doesn't have those "extras." I am too tired these days to drive her around for all sorts of extra curricular activities.

 

And, Heigh Ho's post needs to be highlighted. Income is not the sole source of financial consideration.

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Also keep in mind that when you are applying to top schools, academics and test scores are not the only factors. Kids need major leadership roles, meaningful contributions to the community, etc. There are definitely kids on this forum I see very competitive for Ivys bc of their ECs (EOO's ds and dmmetler's dd are two who come to mind.)

 

But, my current 10th grader, for example, she is an incredibly strong academic student with an interesting educational background, but she doesn't have those "extras." I am too tired these days to driver her around for all sorts of extra curricular activities.

 

And, Heigh Ho's post needs to be highlighted. Income is not the sole source of financial consideration.

 

Yep there are a lot of factors that go into they type of people they accept and that almost always include people in the category who have the money to get their kids into extras.  Frankly I think counting extras seems unfair.  Kids don't necessarily get into extras because they are super kids and decided they want to change the world by walking grandmas and puppies across the street with their spare time.  They tend to simply have the opportunities because their parents have the time and money to get them into it. 

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Yep there are a lot of factors that go into they type of people they accept and that almost always include people in the category who have the money to get their kids into extras. Frankly I think counting extras seems unfair. Kids don't necessarily get into extras because they are super kids and decided they want to change the world by walking grandmas and puppies across the street with their spare time. They tend to simply have the opportunities because their parents have the time and money to get them into it.

I don't know that that is a completely fair analysis. Much of the time it is child driven. I would say if you spoke to EOO and dmmetler they would say their kids drag them along. I don't get the feeling either of them are living luxurious lives. That said......it does take time, energy, and creativity (creative financing can fall into this category, researching unique opportunities, etc) on the part of the parent. Personally, that is where my kids are lacking. Mom just ain't what she used to be. ;)

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Keep your money invested, and you will be paying full price if you are an older professional parent. Son at state U meets a lot of doctor's and other professional's children who dont want to pay full freight at an ivy or nyu.

And if you are a younger parent who is still paying or just finished paying rent on their own degrees, ie student loans. We'd be in our early 40s when DS heads out. I'm not going to burden self with worries about paying full freight because they're helping us out with these admission rates :) so much to be thankful for, really ;)
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Dont forget the key phrase 'and you have typical assets.' In other words, your parents havent passed on and left you assets,, and you have bought a pricy enough home and timed your vehicle purchases. Keep your money invested, and you will be paying full price if you are an older professional parent. Son at state U meets a lot of doctor's and other professional's children who dont want to pay full freight at an ivy or nyu.

 

My DS at state U has been absolutely blown away by the number of very, very wealthy, extremely high achieving kids there.  These are kids who (from what DS can tell) come from wealth far greater than that of professional level people ('cause "older professional parent" pretty much describes us).  From what DS says the majority of these kids either have a parent who is a graduate of the school and has fond memories and/or parents who didn't see any point in paying full freight to an Ivy.  DS is loving it because he's making some really wonderful contacts.

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But with their acceptance rates one is more likely to be struck by lightening.

 

I think we have several Hive kids who have gone to Ivies and equivalent (like Stanford, MIT, etc).  How many Hive kids have gotten struck by lightning?  I can't think of any... ;)

 

 

 

 

Yep there are a lot of factors that go into they type of people they accept and that almost always include people in the category who have the money to get their kids into extras.  Frankly I think counting extras seems unfair.  Kids don't necessarily get into extras because they are super kids and decided they want to change the world by walking grandmas and puppies across the street with their spare time.  They tend to simply have the opportunities because their parents have the time and money to get them into it. 

 

This is not always true.  Most of the few kids from my average school who have made it in to top places have done so because these top places realize they are doing superb things (in their school and community) without many resources at their disposal.  What they are mainly looking for are students who have the ability to go places and do things with what they have, not what they don't have.  Oh, and it's not just ability they are looking for, but actually doing it.  Many could, but not all follow through and do.

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I don't know that that is a completely fair analysis. Much of the time it is child driven. I would say if you spoke to EOO and dmmetler they would say their kids drag them along. I don't get the feeling either of them are living luxurious lives. That said......it does take time, energy, and creativity (creative financing can fall into this category, researching unique opportunities, etc) on the part of the parent. Personally, that is where my kids are lacking. Mom just ain't what she used to be. ;)

 

But a lot of it started with the parent signing them up when they were little.  For example, signing your 3 year old up for dance and the kid stuck with it a long time.  What 3 year old doesn't say they want to dance?  Many of them do.  I credit the kid mostly with sticking with it, but the parent often encourages them, keeps paying for it, and keeps carting them there.  Then when the kid says they hate dance after some years, the parent bribes them to stick with it or heavily encourages or makes them.  Not saying this is always the case.  And you can't decide at 14 you suddenly want to take ballet lessons.  Not impossible, but not likely.  There may be zero opportunities for a late start even for non competitive fun dance classes.

 

I'm not saying the kid deserves zero credit.  They are ultimately the one who has to practice and work at it.  But they aren't usually the one paying for it nor driving themselves there nor paying for the gas to get there.  I wasn't in activities because my parents would not pay for it and would not drive there.  I did volunteer to read at a nursing home.  That was all me because I contacted them and walked there (over 2 miles one way).  But how long could I realistically keep that up?  I did not do it with the thought that it'll go on a college application.  I did it because I enjoyed it, but again I could not easily squeeze that in with the long hours I had to work a paid job and go to school.  It might not even look all that impressive that I read to senior citizens in a nursing home for a couple of hours a week, but of course nobody knew that it also meant I walked 4 miles in the dark there and back in an unsafe area.  I really think people often don't have any clue what some people go through to just get through.  There is no way to put that down on paper either.  It just looks like I didn't do much. 

 

So I maintain that activities are often about what the parent can afford or what they agree to. 

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I think we have several Hive kids who have gone to Ivies and equivalent (like Stanford, MIT, etc).  How many Hive kids have gotten struck by lightning?  I can't think of any... ;)

 

 

 

 

 

This is not always true.  Most of the few kids from my average school who have made it in to top places have done so because these top places realize they are doing superb things (in their school and community) without many resources at their disposal.  What they are mainly looking for are students who have the ability to go places and do things with what they have, not what they don't have.  Oh, and it's not just ability they are looking for, but actually doing it.  Many could, but not all follow through and do.

 

Without any resources at their disposal?  I highly doubt that is common.  HIGHLY

 

Even getting a ride to an activity is a resource at their disposal that not all people have. 

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But a lot of it started with the parent signing them up when they were little. For example, signing your 3 year old up for dance and the kid stuck with it a long time. What 3 year old doesn't say they want to dance? Many of them do. I credit the kid mostly with sticking with it, but the parent often encourages them, keeps paying for it, and keeps carting them there. Then when the kid says they hate dance after some years, the parent bribes them to stick with it or heavily encourages or makes them. Not saying this is always the case. And you can't decide at 14 you suddenly want to take ballet lessons. Not impossible, but not likely. There may be zero opportunities for a late start even for non competitive fun dance classes.

 

I'm not saying the kid deserves zero credit. They are ultimately the one who has to practice and work at it. But they aren't usually the one paying for it nor driving themselves there nor paying for the gas to get there. I wasn't in activities because my parents would not pay for it and would not drive there. I did volunteer to read at a nursing home. That was all me because I contacted them and walked there (over 2 miles one way). But how long could I realistically keep that up? I did not do it with the thought that it'll go on a college application. I did it because I enjoyed it, but again I could not easily squeeze that in with the long hours I had to work a paid job and go to school. It might not even look all that impressive that I read to senior citizens in a nursing home for a couple of hours a week, but of course nobody knew that it also meant I walked 4 miles in the dark there and back in an unsafe area. I really think people often don't have any clue what some people go through to just get through. There is no way to put that down on paper either. It just looks like I didn't do much.

 

So I maintain that activities are often about what the parent can afford or what they agree to.

Except those aren't the types of activities I was referring to. EOO's son is involved in environmental awareness and dmmetler's dd is involved in snakes and educating the public. Neither of them are typical interests or activities. I don't think high cost activities have to be the driving force, but a passionate interest that is valued by someone in admissions is.

 

ETA: and working is seen as valuable for admissions at many schools.

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My DS at state U has been absolutely blown away by the number of very, very wealthy, extremely high achieving kids there.  These are kids who (from what DS can tell) come from wealth far greater than that of professional level people ('cause "older professional parent" pretty much describes us).  From what DS says the majority of these kids either have a parent who is a graduate of the school and has fond memories and/or parents who didn't see any point in paying full freight to an Ivy.  DS is loving it because he's making some really wonderful contacts.

 

UNC, right?  (Assuming I'm remembering correctly?)  

 

This doesn't surprise me at all, esp since they are considered one of the top state schools in the country.  

 

Private schools do not always trump state schools in prestige and when one is fortunate enough to live in a state with a top,m affordable state school, it can easily be a win-win.

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Without any resources at their disposal?  I highly doubt that is common.  HIGHLY

 

Even getting a ride to an activity is a resource at their disposal that not all people have. 

 

A) I used many, not any.

 

B)  Our school provides rides to things like Science Olympiad, Envirothon, and other similar things as many parents can't/won't do it.

 

C)  Doing things within our school is easy.  They just need to have the insight of what to come up with and the drive to get it done.

 

D)  It's not too much more difficult within our community.

 

The creativity and drive are the two hard parts.

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Except those aren't the types of activities I was referring to. EOO's son is involved in environmental awareness and dmmetler's dd is involved in snakes and educating the public. Neither of them are typical interests or activities. I don't think high cost activities have to be the driving force, but a passionate interest that is valued by someone in admissions is.

 

ETA: and working is seen as valuable for admissions at many schools.

 

And both require the parent driving them places and helping them access stuff that costs money. 

 

I just picked some random activity.  I'm sure some more unique activities are attractive, but they rarely involve no parental involvement.

 

Right, I'm sure Stanford would have been very impressed with my long work time at McDonald's.  Doesn't matter, I would never have been able to go to Stanford.  I wouldn't have been able to afford the ride I'd need to the airport and then the plane ticket to fly there or the long bus ride to get there.  And that's just getting started in terms of the costs associated.

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A) I used many, not any.

 

B)  Our school provides rides to things like Science Olympiad, Envirothon, and other similar things as many parents can't/won't do it.

 

C)  Doing things within our school is easy.  They just need to have the insight of what to come up with and the drive to get it done.

 

D)  It's not too much more difficult within our community.

 

The creativity and drive are the two hard parts.

 

You might have an amazing district with opportunities. I don't know.  And as a homeschooler that is definitely not built in for me. Not that Stanford does anything with hiomeschoolers in mind.

 

I just think of everything my kids are involved with and there isn't a single thing that does not take my money, my time, and my energy.  That wouldn't be all that different if they were in school.  Of course I want to see my kids succeed so I suck it up and do it, but I don't love it.  That's for sure, and I often wonder who is really putting in the bigger effort. 

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I just picked some random activity.  I'm sure some more unique activities are attractive, but they rarely involve no parental involvement.

 

Yes and no.  Something that Calvin had to offer was a runner-up placement in a national poetry competition.  I did provide him with pens and paper....

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You might have an amazing district with opportunities. I don't know.  And as a homeschooler that is definitely not built in for me. Not that Stanford does anything with hiomeschoolers in mind.

 

I just think of everything my kids are involved with and there isn't a single thing that does not take my money, my time, and my energy.  That wouldn't be all that different if they were in school.  Of course I want to see my kids succeed so I suck it up and do it, but I don't love it.  That's for sure, and I often wonder who is really putting in the bigger effort. 

 

Our district is average in our state (literally - ranked around 250 +/- out of 500 school districts) and PA tends to be middle of the pack in various national rankings - maybe slightly better than middle.

 

And there are very, very few Ivy (and peers) students who come from here as very few have the drive needed to get there.  We don't even average one per year.  Those who do impress all of us.

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Yes and no.  Something that Calvin had to offer was a runner-up placement in a national poetry competition.  I did provide him with pens and paper....

 

Although you have said that Oxford is more interested in grades.  I'm sure schools here are more interested in grades too, but when you have 5000 highly perfect applicants and only 1000 slots I guess you have to get creative with selecting people.

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Yes and no.  Something that Calvin had to offer was a runner-up placement in a national poetry competition.  I did provide him with pens and paper....

 

Middle son did not apply to any Ivies (or any other school without merit aid), but the schools he did apply to were impressed with his high school service project of a major Hunger Banquet he put on.  I detailed that in another thread somewhere.  We didn't give him a single penny toward putting that on (we did donate at the banquet).  He called and got donations from everywhere and volunteers for everything service-wise.  I suppose we paid for the phone...

 

I've been reminded of his drive when he did just beat really low odds (13/240) to get his summer internship at Stanford.  He's been using that same drive at his college and over his summers and it still impresses people (other than family even!).

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Although you have said that Oxford is more interested in grades.  I'm sure schools here are more interested in grades too, but when you have 5000 highly perfect applicants and only 1000 slots I guess you have to get creative with selecting people.

 

It's more that Oxford is interested in things directly related to the degree you want to take: poetry was a definite plus (because he wanted to study English); high proficiency at the oboe, or work in a soup kitchen would not have helped.

 

The main way that Oxbridge distinguish between perfect candidates (we have that problem here too) is by setting an extra, harder exam, then putting everyone through an academic interview.

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Some free or nearly free things to help with college admissions and life.

 

Be a good writer... being able to express yourself in essays and tell your own story is huge. Academic style writing is a plus, too. (They Say, I Say, free at your public library.) Enter lots of writing competitions. Try to get published in a magazine. Start a blog.

 

Be good at math.... Use the free Alcumus Website, Kahn Academy, and the many years of freely available AMC Exams to prepare for and take the (usually freely offered) AMC and AIME exams. If you do really well, you can go to amazing free math camps!

 

Be good at standardized testing. Yeah, I know it sucks. But it's also something that doesn't cost a lot. Library has free test prep books and sometimes test prep classes. Bonus.

 

Go to your local university and get interested in something. Pick a topic and go to all the free lectures you can. Our local has a few professors that will let people sit in all semester, free. Just ask. Profs usually love to talk to people that are interested in their stuff.

 

Join your local science association... like this one. $35 bucks a year for a family membership (to the astronomy section for us) here buys you 2 lectures a month, free access to a dark sky site with a many telescopes, and regular paper presentations, not to mention friendships with many of the smartest, most interesting people in your town.  (DD#2 got to be a camp counselor there for a summer program. Leadership points!) If you live in or near any sized city you probably have one.

 

Try and get an internship in something in which you are interested. My dd#1 managed to squeak into one and it was full time, paid, for two summers. Bonus! And it was on the way to dad's office, so she got a ride everyday that didn't cost anything extra.

 

Get a part time job.

 

Read the paper and know what's going on in the world.

 

Learn to Code. Too many free places to list.

 

Read, a lot.

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I have so many thoughts going through my head I don't know where to begin.

 

Not everyone has a chance to participate in certain activities.  Our area doesn't have Science Olympiad and I have never heard of Envirothon (I will look that up).  If they were available here, I am pretty sure the school would not provide transportation.  As it is the Math Club advisor uses his own money to rent a van to get the Math Club students to competitions.  Heck, the school just instituted a policy where each student must pay $30 a year per activity (capped at $270 per family) in order to have access to school busses.  This access is not guaranteed.  The tennis team regularly asks for parent volunteers to drive to away meets.

 

ETA:  Just looked up Envirothon.  Oh my ~ $1300 for a team and $800 for a guest.  Our state does have a rep and LUCs which sponsor teams.  However, there is only one team in our area and that team is funded through their chapter of FFA.

 

Drats, that would have been a good program to know about 4 or 5 years ago.

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As for the bolded, it doesn't even have to be the local university. Professors are happy to Skype with kids. And there are a lot of free internet programs out there. Things like that are free and kid driven. Stanford is looking for internal drive.

 

Some free or nearly free things to help with college admissions and life.

 

Be a good writer... being able to express yourself in essays and tell your own story is huge. Academic style writing is a plus, too. (They Say, I Say, free at your public library.) Enter lots of writing competitions. Try to get published in a magazine. Start a blog.

 

Be good at math.... Use the free Alcumus Website, Kahn Academy, and the many years of freely available AMC Exams to prepare for and take the (usually freely offered) AMC and AIME exams. If you do really well, you can go to amazing free math camps!

 

Be good at standardized testing. Yeah, I know it sucks. But it's also something that doesn't cost a lot. Library has free test prep books and sometimes test prep classes. Bonus.

 

Go to your local university and get interested in something. Pick a topic and go to all the free lectures you can. Our local has a few professors that will let people sit in all semester, free. Just ask. Profs usually love to talk about people that are interested in their stuff.

 

Join your local science association... like this one. $35 bucks a year for a family membership (to the astronomy section for us) here buys you 2 lectures a month, free access to a dark sky site with a many telescopes, and regular paper presentations, not to mention friendships with many of the smartest, most interesting people in your town.  (DD#2 got to be a camp counselor there for a summer program. Leadership points!) If you live in or near any sized city you probably have one.

 

Try and get an internship in something in which you are interested. My dd#1 managed to squeak into one and it was full time, paid, for two summers. Bonus! And it was on the way to dad's office, so she got a ride everyday that didn't cost anything extra.

 

Get a part time job.

 

Read the paper and know what's going on the world.

 

Learn to Code. Too many free places to list.

 

Read, a lot.

 

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Jen, some of those things dont work for the poor. Jobs are not typically available for under 18 in many poor communities since they cant sell alcohol or operate a deli slicer.the rest require funding and transport that isnt available.

 

Has the AMC changed its rules? The poor typically send their children to school; back when ds was interested we fou d that if the school didnt want to offer the exam , the student was SOL.

 

Yes, you are correct. Some things don't work out for all people. Every person won't have access to every opportunity, even me. I was just trying to throw some low cost  things out there that maybe people haven't thought of. Truly, I can't make college possible for everyone. BUT if the parent is on this homeschooling board, with internet access, SOME of these things might be something they haven't considered.

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 Our area doesn't have Science Olympiad 

 

We didn't either until one of our superb students got the inspiration to get it going... not every school around us participates.  Many don't.

 

Kids who are driven find these types of things AND rather than feeling left out that they aren't around or can't do them, they figure out how to make them happen.

 

It seriously is very impressive as few have that combo to both see a need and fill the need in whatever way they can.

 

This is partially why I donate to school fundraisers all the time.  Kids are working to be able to afford what they can't.  I appreciate that.

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My dd's life would look entirely different if I didn't put in hours and hours of :driving:  and lots of $$. There is no way to get around that. Sure she has the interest and the will to make it worth the effort. I don't do anything but get her there, but without that small part, none of this would be happening.

 

And....I just realized this it the college board! Ignore me! Sorry!

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We didn't either until one of our superb students got the inspiration to get it going... not every school around us participates.  Many don't.

 

Kids who are driven find these types of things AND rather than feeling left out that they aren't around or can't do them, they figure out how to make them happen.

 

It seriously is very impressive as few have that combo to both see a need and fill the need in whatever way they can.

 

This is partially why I donate to school fundraisers all the time.  Kids are working to be able to afford what they can't.  I appreciate that.

 

I am not trying to be contrary and I hope this question is perceived as sincere...

How can a student with an interest know how to get something started when there is no knowledge of the program to begin with?  For example, my DS has participated in every environmental awareness opportunity he could find through the BSA.  He has spoken with DNR representatives, given presentations about and conducted Leave No Trace campaigns (he is a Nationally certified LNT trainer), etc and we have never heard of Envirothon.  This is something he would have jumped on and tried to implement but it never came across his (our) radar.  So yes, DS saw the need to increase environmental awareness and did what he could to fill that need but starting a competitive team was something that never crossed his mind because he was not aware that an environmental competition was a thing.

 

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My dd's life would look entirely different if I didn't put in hours and hours of :driving:  and lots of $$. There is no way to get around that. Sure she has the interest and the will to make it worth the effort. I don't do anything but get her there, but without that small part, none of this would be happening.

 

And....I just realized this it the college board! Ignore me! Sorry!

 

No need to apologize.  You are in the stage where you are fostering her interest so she'll have something on a college application. Maybe. If that's your and her intent.

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,, and you have bought a pricy enough home and timed your vehicle purchases. 

 

 

For the FAFSA, assets can be kept "hidden" in a home, right?  Same with vehicles? Is there a limit?  We may be selling off an asset that we have, and I think I have heard that the best thing to do is to pay off a chunk of our home, so that those assets won't count against us for FAFSA purposes.  Just wondering if that is true.  

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No need to apologize.  You are in the stage where you are fostering her interest so she'll have something on a college application. Maybe. If that's your and her intent.

 

Do you mean is going to college her intent? If so, yes.  The activities are just because she wants to, though. College apps are just a bonus.

 

I am learning so much from reading about your journeys. Thanks for sharing them.

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For the FAFSA, assets can be kept "hidden" in a home, right?  Same with vehicles? Is there a limit?  We may be selling off an asset that we have, and I think I have heard that the best thing to do is to pay off a chunk of our home, so that those assets won't count against us for FAFSA purposes.  Just wondering if that is true.  

 

Check your student's list of possible schools and see if they require the CSS profile.  The CSS wants a list of cars including make, model, year, purchase amount, year purchased, amount owed, and who drives the vehicle.  It also asks information on current home value, purchase price of home, and current amount owed on home.

 

The CSS goes into much more detail.  Every LAC DS applied to required the CSS.  None of the public universities did, though.  FYI - the CSS is not free, either.

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I am no expert...I do know people who have done so and recd quite a bit of aid. The 'give the kid a new car at 16' is aimed at optimal timing for financial aid purposes too.

 

Thank you.

 

We are in that middle class category as older parents within ten years of retirement (well, that is the hope, anyway), and we're trying to figure out if it will even be worth it for us to file the FAFSA. I know everybody says to fill it out anyhow, but I'm not so sure...

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I hope you don't mind me answering:

Typically here, they find out thru networking with scouters or the Env. Science MB counselor after they finish their Hornaday work. Presenting that gives them access to more people who might just be competition judges locally and will mention the next step if they think the lad is competitive and desiring more.

 

By the way, I am not trying to give anyone a hard time about level of poverty, but its clear that the path to excellence is also closing for the middle class. Do we want that world?

 

I don't mind you answering at all. 

 

But your response leads into the point I am trying to make.  DS was the first Scout in our area to even attempt Hornaday(he earned it BTW).  He has every MB in the Environmental/Conservation category but none of those counselors, reps, or contacts mentioned other opportunities. DS spent hours working with multiple individuals so it's not like it couldn't have come up in conversation. I am sure if those individuals would have known about Envirothon, they would have mentioned it.  At least I hope they would have.

 

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I do not believe you are bound by Union contracts as much as we are. A student cannot start a team here without a sponsor, and that must be a teacher who receives a stipend from the district. One can raise money for a cause, and people do, but without the district sponsor it remains a private team. My son asked to reinstate math club as a school sponsored activity with a petition signed by many, including all the diverse members of the commun ity. His principal was very honest...its a political no go, but he could do x, y, or z which arent perceived as elitist. Additionally, independent study is now banned as the district doesnt want to pay the teacher. In the past, students could take courses such as FL4 or Statistics via independent study...no opportunity now. People were allowed to raise money from the community and fund sports, but the BofE controlled which teams were given that money.

 

A poor child whose parents have no money for extras is better off with scouting, church youth group, or 4H if he wants to do more than raise money for charity...there are usually ways to get rides there. For fund raising, NHS is great.

 

Our school deals need sponsors in the faculty too, but fortunately, our school board is on board with good ideas as long as they are self-funded.  I feel for your district and the students in it.

 

And yes, there are plenty of outside of school activities available, but those don't get school transportation or funding.

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My dd's life would look entirely different if I didn't put in hours and hours of :driving: and lots of $$. There is no way to get around that. Sure she has the interest and the will to make it worth the effort. I don't do anything but get her there, but without that small part, none of this would be happening.

 

And....I just realized this it the college board! Ignore me! Sorry!

Yes. I joke that my DS is profoundly gifted...with me being the gift, LOL.
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I am not trying to be contrary and I hope this question is perceived as sincere...

How can a student with an interest know how to get something started when there is no knowledge of the program to begin with? For example, my DS has participated in every environmental awareness opportunity he could find through the BSA. He has spoken with DNR representatives, given presentations about and conducted Leave No Trace campaigns (he is a Nationally certified LNT trainer), etc and we have never heard of Envirothon. This is something he would have jumped on and tried to implement but it never came across his (our) radar. So yes, DS saw the need to increase environmental awareness and did what he could to fill that need but starting a competitive team was something that never crossed his mind because he was not aware that an environmental competition was a thing.

 

I hope you can read this with the gentle intent in which I am really responding, but some kids simply search under every rock, literally calling/emailing/researching every possible opportunity, and create opportunities when they don't already exist. It is the unwillingness to stop at something they are aware of which drives them to seek things that they aren't that distinguishes their accomplishments beyond others.

 

On an different note, for an inspirational story about a young man from a very difficult background who was accepted to Stanford, you might want to read Michael Tubbs's story.

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UNC, right?  (Assuming I'm remembering correctly?)  

 

This doesn't surprise me at all, esp since they are considered one of the top state schools in the country.  

 

Private schools do not always trump state schools in prestige and when one is fortunate enough to live in a state with a top,m affordable state school, it can easily be a win-win.

 

Yes.  To all of the above.

 

Check your student's list of possible schools and see if they require the CSS profile.  The CSS wants a list of cars including make, model, year, purchase amount, year purchased, amount owed, and who drives the vehicle.  It also asks information on current home value, purchase price of home, and current amount owed on home.

 

The CSS goes into much more detail.  Every LAC DS applied to required the CSS.  None of the public universities did, though.  FYI - the CSS is not free, either.

 

UNC requires the CSS profile.  I can't remember which, if any, of the other public schools DS applied to required it.

 

I think one extra-curricular that really make DS look good was his involvement in our city's youth council.  He volunteered for four years and was an officer for the last two.  There were lots of opportunities for working at the state level, too.  The total cost to us was transportation to/from their meetings, which were never held more than five miles from our house.  And membership in the youth council wasn't limited to kids who lived in the city limits.  Those from the surrounding areas were eligible to participate.

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That really depends on where a person lives. My district funds rides, as does NYC. what they dont do is fund sitters for those whose parents want them to babysit instead of participate in free extracurriculars, or give the students jobs that can be done after extracurriculars. My high school did give poor kids jobs...they would go to football practice, then work a 1 to 3 hr shift with the janitor. The union doesnt allow that here.

 

The other issue I have seen locally is that everything that involves talent that is accessible to a low income person except sports has been eliminated by the school district, at the request of the populace, who want remedial and do not want honors/AP. There is no math team, no science team, etc. There are private teams that are composed of relatively wealthy kids (parents who each make about 100k, usually one is a teacher and is available to coach )who use that wealth to advantage themselves....but they arent open invitation and their achievememts usually dont trump that of the kids who are busy in their garages doing what they can with community resources, or working and developing their leadership skills. Money at the level where the kid is still in public school isnt that great. No longer can a poor children go to state engineering school and succeed....the level of math and science offered at the high school isnt enough, and only someone with good financial aid and persistance is going to make it thru in six years.

 

I do think there are a lot more opportunities where I live now than where I grew up.  When I grew up I was not in activities because there were no free activities.  I worked where I worked because it was the only place I could walk to.  I had no access to tutoring or test prep.  Here they have that for free for those who cannot afford it. 

 

I do see that there is a lot less for those with talent.  That's always been the case in my experiences growing up and what I see now in the area I live.  Some parents get angry that the school even offers the IB program because their kid isn't a solid enough student to get in and why should we pay for that if it's not for everyone and anyone.  That attitude drives me nuts.

 

My husband and I don't have a ton of money, but one thing I am more so than my parents is resourceful.  I know how to find opportunities.  I encourage my kids.  I give them ideas.  I support them.  I had none of that at all growing up.  No help with any of it.  It was more like I was just a boarder at the apartment than someone's child.  But my parents just did not know about opportunities.  My mother did not graduate from high school.  My father did, but he never went to college.  The odds were not in my favor at all. 

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Check your student's list of possible schools and see if they require the CSS profile.  The CSS wants a list of cars including make, model, year, purchase amount, year purchased, amount owed, and who drives the vehicle.  It also asks information on current home value, purchase price of home, and current amount owed on home.

 

The CSS goes into much more detail.  Every LAC DS applied to required the CSS.  None of the public universities did, though.  FYI - the CSS is not free, either.

 

 

It seems like it will be hopeless for us, then.  It makes me just want to give up. 

 

I feel like the whole college tuition/scholarship pursuit is all a big game, and people like us are going to be the losers.  The discrimination in tuition pricing really bugs me.   It's as if the colleges and universities run a restaurant, and different patrons pay different prices for the exact same meal. 

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By the way, I am not trying to give anyone a hard time about level of poverty, but its clear that the path to excellence is also closing for the middle class. Do we want that world?

 

It's definitely the direction we're heading, and no, I don't want that world.  

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Except those aren't the types of activities I was referring to. EOO's son is involved in environmental awareness and dmmetler's dd is involved in snakes and educating the public. Neither of them are typical interests or activities. I don't think high cost activities have to be the driving force, but a passionate interest that is valued by someone in admissions is.

 

ETA: and working is seen as valuable for admissions at many schools.

 

At the same time, though, there is a cost, either in time, money or both. For DD, the primary cost right now is time (and gas money/auto expense to get there), but there is a financial cost as well. DD could not do what she does without a parent who has a reliable car, can afford several tanks of gas a month (and I'm seriously considering a hybrid when I replace my car because I do spend so much time on the road-besides, our natural partners are environmental groups), and can afford to pay for materials to distribute (a lot of DD's events are at preschools/kindergarten classes, where DD will take a snake or two, talk about snakes, read a book, sing a few songs, and do a craft related to snakes. We've gotten very good at finding crafts that use recycled materials-but there are usually still some costs involved).

 

And that's just the education side. Let's just say that I have some pretty big credit card charges for this summer's conference travel. DD's funding support covers registration and conference fees. It doesn't cover hotel fees or the cost of getting there and back.

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At the same time, though, there is a cost, either in time, money or both. For DD, the primary cost right now is time (and gas money/auto expense to get there), but there is a financial cost as well. DD could not do what she does without a parent who has a reliable car, can afford several tanks of gas a month (and I'm seriously considering a hybrid when I replace my car because I do spend so much time on the road-besides, our natural partners are environmental groups), and can afford to pay for materials to distribute (a lot of DD's events are at preschools/kindergarten classes, where DD will take a snake or two, talk about snakes, read a book, sing a few songs, and do a craft related to snakes. We've gotten very good at finding crafts that use recycled materials-but there are usually still some costs involved).

 

And that's just the education side. Let's just say that I have some pretty big credit card charges for this summer's conference travel. DD's funding support covers registration and conference fees. It doesn't cover hotel fees or the cost of getting there and back.

Yes, commitment of time and expenses are definitely there. I still think it is different from suggesting that kids need to be involved in dance, music, etc at an intense level. Those types of commitments are huge $$ activities. (My kids' ice skating is severely limited due to cost. In comparison, my son's physics and astronomy pursuits were cheap.)

 

But, simple reality is admissions is going to want a determined individual exemplifying that deep character trait. Being a smart academic isn't going to be enough.

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Going back to the OP with regards to the amount of aid at Stanford based on your income and assets:

 

 

 

THEN, consider half of those Os (give or take) came from the ED round - something those without certain financing are encouraged to skip.

 

'Tis not an easy task, esp when one considers the vast majority of apps are from worthy applicants.

 

I don't want to discourage anyone from trying.  We definitely appreciate our colleges that have been terrific with getting our financing down to our EFC.  I just want everyone to stay realistic with odds so that they keep Plan Bs.

 

What do you mean by the bolded?  Do you mean people without the means to pay for any college completely on their own, people who will definitely need financial aid to attend, should not try for ED?

 

 

Dont forget the key phrase 'and you have typical assets.' In other words, your parents havent passed on and left you assets,, and you have bought a pricy enough home and timed your vehicle purchases. Keep your money invested, and you will be paying full price if you are an older professional parent. Son at state U meets a lot of doctor's and other professional's children who dont want to pay full freight at an ivy or nyu.

 

I wondered this too.  The article states: "no parents with an annual income and typical assets of less than $125,000 will have to pay a single cent toward tuition."

 

What exactly does that mean, an annual income AND typical assets of less than $125,000?  Does that mean that the combined total of all your assets (home, cars, retirement funds, savings, investments) AND your annual income has to be less than $125,000?

 

 

 

For the FAFSA, assets can be kept "hidden" in a home, right?  Same with vehicles? Is there a limit?  We may be selling off an asset that we have, and I think I have heard that the best thing to do is to pay off a chunk of our home, so that those assets won't count against us for FAFSA purposes.  Just wondering if that is true.  

 

I've been wondering about this too, but don't know how to get answers on this.  If you have a mortgage, and some savings or investments, is it better to pay off your mortgage than to keep the money in savings?  Do they include the value of your home on the FAFSA as an asset?

 

If not, is it actually better to have a nicer home, than to have a bunch of money in savings?  

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