Who is a Good Candidate for Challenge?

[elmerRex]

I keep reading and every where on this web board I see mentionings of challenging students--especially if they are accelerated.

Now, my son is accelerated in some ways, not accelerated in others. He cries easily and at times he cries often. Everyone who knows him says he is bright and should be in school so he can be tested for gifted program and that he needs to be challenged and the gifted program is for him because its challenging.

 

Well my son hates "challenge". He doesn't mind working, he is a steady and dedicated worker. But he doesn't want to work hard. Is this a character flaw that we should monitor and remedy as parents or is this a personality thing that is okay for kids to have and retain to adulthood? My son enjoys middle of the road levels of challenge. I hope that I'm saying this correctly as English isn't my first language.

 

The best example to share with this web board is that he uses Saxon Math 65 ahead of grade level. People like other maths for "accelerated" math kids but my son likes Saxon. Its finally one thing we don't have to fight about with him. People on this web board know or feel that Saxon is not the most challenging or rigorous math book a boy can study from, but my boy, he is engaged by Saxon. He is gently challenged by Saxon, Saxon is a good fit for him because of the method.

 

The Saxon Method of gradual and constant review is the type of math program that he needs. It is--gentle, engaging and building a very good foundation. My son is making straight As with Saxon Math 65 now for many lessons in a row. Reading the web board I feel like I "should" be using something else, something with more challenge, but then I look at my son and think about how crazy it will make us both and I say "Naah," is this okay or is it me being a lazy mom? (sometimes I am lazy, I admit without shame).

 

 

If it is okay now, then when should I begin to direct him toward challenge?

 

My son is "babyish" he is not a self-starter book-student. If we didn't teach him from books, he wouldn't go learn book type things. He enjoys school okay, but is not independent like my daughter who is curious self-starter student and a harder worker than him. He likes to have help and guidance all the time but his sister is okay with having to figure it out. For my son using Saxon Method makes him more confident because when he sees a problem that he should know how to do--he does. No forgetting, no uncertainty, no pause and no frustration. He remembers what he learned last week, last month and last year because he has not forgotten it.

 

This is one example that I think many will understand, but there are other instances where my son is not a self-starter or does not like hard work, but is okay with doing work. He can work long time, but not always. He resists hard work almost every time.

 

[kiana]

Honestly, I don't think every subject needs to be challenging. I do think a student needs challenge from somewhere but it is totally ok to have easy subjects and hard subjects. As I recall, you were struggling with reading with him ... I would go ahead and let math be gentle while you work on the reading. I would look at ramping up the challenge eventually but I would go ahead and let him finish arithmetic for sure. Scope and sequence of arithmetic programs varies and I don't think changing in the middle of arithmetic is good unless it is clearly a bad fit. You can evaluate again when he is ready for algebra and decide then whether he will be better served by an easier program or more challenge. 

 

I don't think you need a plan from now until the end of the road. 

[Crimson Wife]

He's in 1st grade? Sounds like a maturity issue.

[Dmmetler]

At 1st grade, my DD wouldn't have been ready for highly challenging math, either.  It was really only in the last 2 years that she's matured to the point that she's ready for things that are significantly challenging and has the stamina to work through and push through hard stuff.

 

[pehp]

In first grade, I honestly believe you have to let a child ripen. Just because they CAN do something doesn't mean they SHOULD.  He needs time to mature.  Also, it's just a lot more important to establish a good relationship than start introducing too much, too fast.  In my observation this is a recipe for burnout for him and for you. 

 

At this point if he's pleased w/ Saxon and you're pleased with it...I wouldn't try to fix what is not broken.  

[elmerRex]

I guess I am not communicating well. I used my son as an example specific, but I meant in a sense of generality. Ugh! this is so frustrating to communicate.

 

Anyway, I am not looking for a plan for the rest of his childhood, I'm asking in a broad general sense: Who is a Good Candidate for Challenge? But maybe the wording of the question is clumsy and is missing the point that I want to make.

 

My son--his personality--is that he does not like challenge. Even young he is content with medium level things.

My brother was like that as a child and is still like that now as a grown man, a couple of my friends are like that too. So to me, it is possible that my son will never like or want for challenging work. Is this a problem to be remedied eventually or not?

 

My son is able to accelerate because we break things down for him in a way that he understands. He can grasp lots of things and usually very easily, but holding on to them is harder. This is one reason why we liked Saxon when we found it. A lot of my sons frustration comes from bad retention of knowledge--he can only remember that he's forgetting something but can't remember what he has forgotten, if that makes sense.

 

I guess I wonder what is the value in challenge itself? Most people will live lives close to the middle of the road, so to speak. Of course I don't want poverty for my son and there is a basic amount of decency in willingness and ability to work that I demand my children develop--once they know how to work, whether they work or not is up to them--but is challenge itself important for all people, and if so, why?

 

Honestly, I don't think every subject needs to be challenging. I do think a student needs challenge from somewhere but it is totally ok to have easy subjects and hard subjects. As I recall, you were struggling with reading with him ... I would go ahead and let math be gentle while you work on the reading. I would look at ramping up the challenge eventually but I would go ahead and let him finish arithmetic for sure. Scope and sequence of arithmetic programs varies and I don't think changing in the middle of arithmetic is good unless it is clearly a bad fit. You can evaluate again when he is ready for algebra and decide then whether he will be better served by an easier program or more challenge. 

 

I don't think you need a plan from now until the end of the road. 

 

 

[quark]

 

I keep reading and every where on this web board I see mentionings of challenging students--especially if they are accelerated.

Now, my son is accelerated in some ways, not accelerated in others. He cries easily and at times he cries often. Everyone who knows him says he is bright and should be in school so he can be tested for gifted program and that he needs to be challenged and the gifted program is for him because its challenging.

 

 

It is very easy to become overwhelmed or worried about what you read on this board. :grouphug:

 

 

Well my son hates "challenge". He doesn't mind working, he is a steady and dedicated worker. But he doesn't want to work hard. Is this a character flaw that we should monitor and remedy as parents or is this a personality thing that is okay for kids to have and retain to adulthood? My son enjoys middle of the road levels of challenge. I hope that I'm saying this correctly as English isn't my first language.

 

 

Taking his age into account, I would suggest not having a fixed idea in your mind that he is not a hard worker or that he has a character flaw. I suggest keeping an open mind, and like kiana says, being flexible about where you challenge him and where you don't and not having a fixed idea in your head that because he is like this now he will always be that way. Plus, not all kids will work hard at academic pursuits, especially in first grade!

 

 

The best example to share with this web board is that he uses Saxon Math 65 ahead of grade level. People like other maths for "accelerated" math kids but my son likes Saxon. Its finally one thing we don't have to fight about with him. People on this web board know or feel that Saxon is not the most challenging or rigorous math book a boy can study from, but my boy, he is engaged by Saxon. He is gently challenged by Saxon, Saxon is a good fit for him because of the method.

 

The Saxon Method of gradual and constant review is the type of math program that he needs. It is--gentle, engaging and building a very good foundation. My son is making straight As with Saxon Math 65 now for many lessons in a row. Reading the web board I feel like I "should" be using something else, something with more challenge, but then I look at my son and think about how crazy it will make us both and I say "Naah," is this okay or is it me being a lazy mom? (sometimes I am lazy, I admit without shame).

 

If it is okay now, then when should I begin to direct him toward challenge?

 

 

If it works why worry because of what others think? You are parenting and homeschooling the child in front of you. It is okay to question what you are using if you see *your* child disliking it. But if he likes it, something is working! What you can do, again remembering that he is so young and you have so much time ahead of you, is to play games with him (as per your signature), strategic ones where possible, and pose him some puzzles from time to time so that he is problem solving at a level that is comfortably challenging for him. You might want to start now since he is getting As in a row for a number of lessons. Maybe put Saxon away for a week and find him ability-appropriate puzzles to solve?

 

 

My son is "babyish" he is not a self-starter book-student. If we didn't teach him from books, he wouldn't go learn book type things. He enjoys school okay, but is not independent like my daughter who is curious self-starter student and a harder worker than him. He likes to have help and guidance all the time but his sister is okay with having to figure it out. For my son using Saxon Method makes him more confident because when he sees a problem that he should know how to do--he does. No forgetting, no uncertainty, no pause and no frustration. He remembers what he learned last week, last month and last year because he has not forgotten it.

 

This is one example that I think many will understand, but there are other instances where my son is not a self-starter or does not like hard work, but is okay with doing work. He can work long time, but not always. He resists hard work almost every time.

 

 

It sounds like you need to reassure yourself about your reason to use Saxon. Again, if it works, use it! Your son sounds like a different learner from your daughter and that's totally fine. Boys do tend to be generally less mature than girls their age. He will mature and find his way and you will find ways to help him when the time comes.

 

What I do suggest is to teach him that it is okay to make mistakes. Sometimes, in our quest for challenging our kids, we forget that the drive needs to also come internally, from within. A child who is always doing work and doing well at it isn't necessarily challenged. A child who does work (whether it is hard work or not) and makes mistakes and wants to give up all the time is also not being well-served. But a child who makes mistakes and is able to move on from the mistakes...that's an important skill to be able to take on more challenge.

 

I wouldn't worry now about him not working hard right now (and again, try not to think of it that way...think of it as him not finding his niche yet). I would worry if he is unable to move on from making mistakes. But because he is six/seven, there's time to teach him that mistakes are something to feel positive about because the next time he does the same thing, he is going to know a little (or a lot) more about it.

 

[kiana]

I don't think that there is an answer that is good for all children. It would be nice if we could reduce it to a formula (if child has these traits, challenge) but I just don't think there is one.

 

I think a child does need to learn to think hard in some way if they are going to be successful at university and beyond, and for accelerated students they are clear candidates for this. It doesn't have to be in math or in other subjects, but they need something where the answer is not obvious and they have to think hard and play with it in order to figure it out. This doesn't have to begin in very early childhood, but there may be more argument and fighting if they are not at least gently challenged early. Many very bright kids quit university simply because they think that if they have to work hard at something they are dumb at it. 

[Crimson Wife]

 

My son--his personality--is that he does not like challenge. Even young he is content with medium level things.

 

Saying this gently, but as mom to kids who are now 12 & 9, there is a LOT of maturing that goes on during the elementary years. What your child's tolerance for challenge is like at 6 is going to be radically different at 9 and even more so at 12. I presume this improvement will likely continue through the teen years but ask me again in 5 years.

[pehp]

"I guess I wonder what is the value in challenge itself? Most people will live lives close to the middle of the road, so to speak. Of course I don't want poverty for my son and there is a basic amount of decency in willingness and ability to work that I demand my children develop--once they know how to work, whether they work or not is up to them--but is challenge itself important for all people, and if so, why?"

 

Maybe it's an issue of semantics.  What do we consider "challenge" and how is it defined?  

 

I believe all children should have a rich and broad education.  Good educational habits are important--that is, just show up and be diligent.   I am not sure I would call this a "challenge" or not, though. I want my children to be prepared for whatever life has in store for them academically--and to just enjoy learning. 

 

Where I do think children can and should be challenged, more than in academics, is in development of life skills when they are little.  I'm no draconian taskmaster, but my children are learning to do their chores, to help around the house, to work in the garden, and so on.  If my child can do calculus at the age of 11 but is too trifling to work in the garden I will feel I have missed my mark.  

[MotherOfBoys]

It maybe a hard question to word properly but it's also a hard question to answer. My son was not challenged so we switched from Saxon to Beast. There was a chapter one adjustment period. We are set. Well until he burned through Beast 3 by the end of Feb. Now we probably have to get Beast 4 early because he quit Zaccarro after two weeks and Khan isn't as fun as it was last fall. I'm going with what he wants to do and not what I want (which is not to finish before production). I'm confident the program will challenge him and get him to where he needs to be.

 

My answer to challenge is: Is he thinking something out on his own each day? My son watches 60 minutes on Sunday nights till one section interests him and then he's solving the problem for the next 2 days. Asking to watch Youtube stuff on it. This happened out of laziness. I didn't feel like putting him to bed so he saw the water shortage episode and was hooked. Failing roads was even more interesting.

 

I did get to thinking about the challenge in every subject problem. I did that to him last year. Just because he can diagram a sentence doesn't mean my 1st grader needs to. We opted for ELTL's (listening to great stories, poems, and art with some copywork) so he can do what he wants (Beast Math and Pathway readers). As long as he's doing some thinking I don't care. He also loves SSL (his secret language :lol: ). He could have figured out LFCA this year and I would have gotten my moneys worth. Looking back though, my 4 yr old and I loved sitting with my 6 yr old on the couch cuddling while the Latin DVD played. We love singing the songs on long car rides to drive dad nuts.

 

We also have physical challenge. Without being asked my 6 yr old flattened the ground at our walk out basement and laid all the paving stones. It was a huge undertaking and he figured it out. Digging across and not down. He made nice rows without being told. I was really impressed. The stones sat there since last summer because the adults were too lazy. He was happy to use his shovel he got for his birthday.

 

This is daily life challenges that teach without tears. It's memories. I thought I had to build in challenge and now I realize a lot just happens on it's own.

[Arcadia]

Seems that your son has a good work ethic. If he doesn't like challenge, that isn't a character flaw.

 

If he face a challenge he can't cope with and stall there or run away instead of asking for help, that can become a flaw.

Also if he can't take failure in the future, that would be emotionally harming. At 6, I would still expect kids to be upset over failure.

 

As for curricula, pick what works for your kid regardless of subjects. Both my kids hit the ceiling for language arts test scores but they have no interest to do more than two world language. I have no interest in challenging them with Latin or Greek or a third world language. I scold them if they get complacent though.