Help me decide between WWS and W&R

[Roadrunner]

So far we have done 7 chapters of WWS 1 and all of W&R up to Cheia (we are on third Chreia currently). My kid likes writing, so he will run with anything. So far he has enjoyed W&R, but I am really second guessing the wisdom of progym exercises. They seem outdated in style and content. He thinks the are "cool," but he thinks everything is "cool." In contrast we really enjoyed the writeup of Kepler in WWS. It felt relevant, interesting, and somehow more mature. It is also possible that we were stoked because we wrote about science. What we don't like about WWS are days 1-3 exercises. He can write a summary or put together a one level outline in his sleep. He gets really frustrated with "tediousness" of those parts. This kid will be going into fifth grade next year. What should I do? Can I condense WWS without breaking it? Should I go with W&R and trust that it takes us to the same place as WWS series? What is that place?

 

Oh, just want to add that we are also getting Blackbird essay guide, so we will work in those slowly and concurrently.

[Chrysalis Academy]

A couple of thoughts about WWS: yes, you can absolutely condense it.  Ruth (lewelma) posted about doing this, if I can find the thread I'll come back and link it.  

 

Shannon's experience with WWS was that she did the first 10 lessons in the spring of her 4th grade year. She didn't find them too difficult.  It does ramp up after lesson 10 or 11, so do be prepared for that - you might slow down a bit and feel more challenged.  

 

Your son is an advanced writer.  WWS might be just the ticket for him.  Use it as long as it works.  You have the Blackbird guide coming, so you have options.  Ultimately we dropped WWS because it was too piecemeal for too long. You might find that to be the case also, but you might overcome that issue by working on a more big picture, whole to parts program (I.e. blackbird, I assume) concurrently.

 

I know you want to do writing across the curriculum but struggle with coming up with assignments.  I think working through WWS will really help with that.  After doing WWS in 5th grade, Shannon spent 6th doing a lot of WWS-style assignments in history and science - chronological narratives, biographical sketches, basic reports with references.  If it helps you see what kind of assignments are appropriate and come up with ideas for applying writing across the curriculum, it's worth its weight.

 

ETA: Two threads that might help with this:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/490567-here-is-how-i-am-teaching-the-material-in-wws1-3-what-are-you-doing/

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/530226-condensing-wws1-for-a-natural-writer/?hl=wws&do=findComment&comment=5972568

[Roadrunner]

 

 

ETA: Two threads that might help with this:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/490567-here-is-how-i-am-teaching-the-material-in-wws1-3-what-are-you-doing/

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/530226-condensing-wws1-for-a-natural-writer/?hl=wws&do=findComment&comment=5972568

 

Thank you for those links. I feel so much more confident about WWS and more sure that's it's a right path for us next year.

You are right. I ordered the Blackbird guide so I can show a big picture to DS. I also have MCT Essay Voyage on hand. We both do better if we can see the forest, but yet still need working on parts.  

[Chrysalis Academy]

Thank you for those links. I feel so much more confident about WWS and more sure that's it's a right path for us next year.

You are right. I ordered the Blackbird guide so I can show a big picture to DS. I also have MCT Essay Voyage on hand. We both do better if we can see the forest, but yet still need working on parts.  

 

Oh good.  Yes, EV is good for the forest.  Pretty much no help for the trees, but it is a nice panoramic view of the forest!  :lol:

[crazyforlatin]

Thanks Rose, don't know how I missed both those threads or maybe I intentionally avoided them. But I kind of need to condense WWS1 and finish by August. I enrolled DD in WWS2 and the good thing with WTMA is that I can go back to WWS1 if WWS2 is just too difficult for DD - I'm really hoping it's not. It seems that the very beginning of WWS2 is a review of the previous book.

 

The syllabus for Intro to Rhetoric condenses way too much of WWS1, and we have more time than just a few weeks, so I'm going to add more to it.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Thanks Rose, don't know how I missed both those threads or maybe I intentionally avoided them. But I kind of need to condense WWS1 and finish by August. I enrolled DD in WWS2 and the good thing with WTMA is that I can go back to WWS1 if WWS2 is just too difficult for DD - I'm really hoping it's not. It seems that the very beginning of WWS2 is a review of the previous book.

 

The syllabus for Intro to Rhetoric condenses way too much of WWS1, and we have more time than just a few weeks, so I'm going to add more to it.

 

Well, really, thank Ruth, because she's the one who did all the work! But you're welcome.

[dauphin]

I've seen Writing With a Thesis mentioned a few places recently, it seems. How would it fit into the big picture vs. piecemeal continuum?

[Roadrunner]

I've seen Writing With a Thesis mentioned a few places recently, it seems. How would it fit into the big picture vs. piecemeal continuum?

No more writing books, please! :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

I've seen Writing With a Thesis mentioned a few places recently, it seems. How would it fit into the big picture vs. piecemeal continuum?

 

Yeah, I've been talking it up!  It's very big picture.  You start with the goal: all writing is persuasive.  Then you explore various topoi but all in the context of writing persuasive essays.  You start with the goal, the big picture, then you examine the various ways of getting there.  It covers Invention and Style but not Arrangement (can you tell who has been reading her Horner ?  ;) )  so very little on the mechanics of creating an essay - it's the next step once the basic essay form is mastered.

[Nicholas_mom]

Roadrunner -- Another you can condense WWS to work for you.  Based on Ruth and Rose's suggestions of adapting the curriculum, it was a blessing for us!  My ds is a natural writer and really likes what we are doing.  I agree there is way too many summarizing and outline writing which I just left out most of it.  In the Fall we summarized out literature reading book instead of the summarizing in WWS.  That suggestion was from Rose, and it worked like a charm.  He was done summarizing after we were done with the book and just kept moving on.

 

We did a couple of the copius exercises to give ds a lesson on using different words.  I also like the lesson on using metaphors for the descriptive science write-ups.  I was hesitant he needed this because in college it's striaght up science facts writing but then realized my ds has a talent to make mundane stuff sound interesting that I continued these lessons.   I hope the science professor will appreciate it. :)

 

Otherwise, you can skip those lessons.

[Roadrunner]

Roadrunner -- Another you can condense WWS to work for you. Based on Ruth and Rose's suggestions of adapting the curriculum, it was a blessing for us! My ds is a natural writer and really likes what we are doing. I agree there is way too many summarizing and outline writing which I just left out most of it. In the Fall we summarized out literature reading book instead of the summarizing in WWS. That suggestion was from Rose, and it worked like a charm. He was done summarizing after we were done with the book and just kept moving on.

 

We did a couple of the copius exercises to give ds a lesson on using different words. I also like the lesson on using metaphors for the descriptive science write-ups. I was hesitant he needed this because in college it's striaght up science facts writing but then realized my ds has a talent to make mundane stuff sound interesting that I continued these lessons. I hope the science professor will appreciate it. :)

 

Otherwise, you can skip those lessons.

Great suggestions. I am excited, but still a bit nervous about WWS. I think if we succeed with this program next year, I will hand my kid over to the WTM Academy for the next level up. :)