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Have we discussed the Finland's educational reforms yet?


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Our school is a happy medium. We thrive on integrated units, but some things are just easier to teach in a more traditional way. I applaud their efforts away from producing test bots, but I do wonder how an entire country's worth of children will fair. I think the ideal reform would be to let teachers teach the way they teach best. Great teachers may now be frustrated by the control to teach in a way they don't like or aren't good at doing.

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I love integrated units, but I've crashed and burned with every packaged PBL-type thing I've ever tried.  I guess it has to be more organic, it has to bubble up out of the life you live and the things you and your kids care about.  It is hard.  

 

And a second issue - it's hard to figure out how to translate those mushed-together integrated units/topics back into "subjects" for the purposes of transcripts/college apps.

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I love integrated units, but I've crashed and burned with every packaged PBL-type thing I've ever tried. I guess it has to be more organic, it has to bubble up out of the life you live and the things you and your kids care about. It is hard.

 

And a second issue - it's hard to figure out how to translate those mushed-together integrated units/topics back into "subjects" for the purposes of transcripts/college apps.

Actually the transcripts are not that difficult. :)

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Actually the transcripts are not that difficult. :)

 

 

But how do you take something that is all gloriously mashed-together and then figure out how to award credit for each subject?  I mean, I can't imagine actually counting hours and putting them into separate little boxes.  Do you just eyeball it?

 

As an example: we did the Big History project this year in 7th grade, with no worry about fitting into boxes/reporting credits.  We had tons and tons of added books, docos, online classes, etc.  We followed lots of rabbit trails, and it ended up including several social sciences - history, anthropology primarily - and multiple sciences - chemistry, cosmology, earth systems science, evolution,  ecology, sustainable ag and nutrition.  She also did a lot of essay writing. For the purposes of 7th grade, I have no problem eyeballing our year and saying: history, check.  Science, check. English, check (she did other English/lit/writing stuff too).  But can I do that in high school?

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Overall I haven't been a fan of unit based studies.  I don't really see them as working better in practice, and I think that in many cases, children are quite capable of making connections between subjects on their own - and perhaps more creativly than the ones they will be given. 

 

On the other hand, since I teach almost all the subjects in our homeschool, I can very easily coordinate things in a synergistic way when it seems like a good idea, and that has been really valuble.

 

I can see, in a more formal setting with more teachers, that it would likely require more planning ahead of time for the same effect.

 

Still - unit studies can seem really artificial, IMO, and I also think that they could end up sepping on the toes of the teacher rather than empowering them. 

 

 

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But how do you take something that is all gloriously mashed-together and then figure out how to award credit for each subject?  I mean, I can't imagine actually counting hours and putting them into separate little boxes.  Do you just eyeball it?

 

As an example: we did the Big History project this year in 7th grade, with no worry about fitting into boxes/reporting credits.  We had tons and tons of added books, docos, online classes, etc.  We followed lots of rabbit trails, and it ended up including several social sciences - history, anthropology primarily - and multiple sciences - chemistry, cosmology, earth systems science, evolution,  ecology, sustainable ag and nutrition.  She also did a lot of essay writing. For the purposes of 7th grade, I have no problem eyeballing our year and saying: history, check.  Science, check. English, check (she did other English/lit/writing stuff too).  But can I do that in high school?

 

Yes.  I just describe in their course descriptions what they were doing.  Dd's history and literature this yr have been Russian history, Russian culture, communism along with reading War and Peace the past few months and studying Russian.  Where does one end and the others begin?  Where I label them.   :)

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Yes.  I just describe in their course descriptions what they were doing.  Dd's history and literature this yr have been Russian history, Russian culture, communism along with reading War and Peace the past few months and studying Russian.  Where does one end and the others begin?  Where I label them.   :)

 

:iagree:  We ended using similar methods for ds. For instance, he wanted a space science elective. I planned one out, half a credit. The focus on the class changed as he added a ton of documentaries, really on his own time. 

 

For me, it's been helpful to loosely plan a direction and books, then let it evolve. That way if the rabbit trails don't happen, I'm not stuck without a plan to follow. 

 

 

I was thinking about this over the weekend. I'm currently working on a history research paper. I could organize it in 40 different way and it would still be right. In the end, I can do whatever works as long as I can support it with documentation. Creating a credit after the fact (or along the way) is kind of like that. 

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I went and reread the article. The information is really rather vague. It doesn't seem to replicate what I have seen of project based learning. With the exception of one part where they were discussing collaborative problem-solving (which isn't enough info to mean anything) most of the examples that were given seemed to me more like integrated thematic studies which are more in line with unit studies and cross curriculum teaching. I had to chuckle bc I am not a fan of project-based learning, but I personally do like integrated thematic studies. :)

 

I am still skeptical about how this will work if it takes autonomy away from their teachers. I personally thought that it was not micromanaging their teachers and allowing them to teach in their classrooms the way they taught best was what made their system so strong. But, over all, I really don't feel like I have enough information to even have a clear understanding of what is going on.

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Unit studies are fun and memorable--boons to learning. They have to go mess with success, though, don't they?

 

I think this is just international propaganda to keep the rest of us off their educational trail after their testing successes and the documentaries. They're not changing a thing. Just telling us they are. ;) Lol.

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Yes. I just describe in their course descriptions what they were doing. Dd's history and literature this yr have been Russian history, Russian culture, communism along with reading War and Peace the past few months and studying Russian. Where does one end and the others begin? Where I label them. :)

Do you have a resource for pulling an integrative unit study like this together? Every time I search for unit study lessons I find a ton of busy work and often they are geared for lower elementary. I'd like to focus on topics for my rising middle schooler. Your above example sounds wonderfully rich.

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What I really wish for is an attendance at your discretion school. The school is open every day, and children attend whatever days/times that they or their parents decide.

 

How can that possibly work? Is the teacher expected to re-teach Tuesday's material to the child who was not there and have the rest of the class sit by and be bored? Are the parents expected to teach Tuesday's material at home before sending their child on Wednesday?

 

As an instructor, I have to deal with students who miss class and then expect me to repeat for them what I told the class. I can expect adult college students to self study, but I do not think the same can be expected of 10 year olds.

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But how do you take something that is all gloriously mashed-together and then figure out how to award credit for each subject?  I mean, I can't imagine actually counting hours and putting them into separate little boxes.  Do you just eyeball it?

 

You can simply make sure to have enough hours to justify x number of credits.

We do integrated history and English, impossible to say where one starts and ends. We do enough hours for two credits - problem solved. Details are explained in the course descriptions.

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Maybe what we think of as unit studies is not what they are doing. For example next year we are doing VP ancient and we are using the suggested literature list that goes along with the time period. We are also doing iew ancients for writing. I could easily pull out passages from their reading books and have them label the parts of speech and that would be grammar. I don't think that would be to hard for a teacher to accomplish either.

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Do you have a resource for pulling an integrative unit study like this together? Every time I search for unit study lessons I find a ton of busy work and often they are geared for lower elementary. I'd like to focus on topics for my rising middle schooler. Your above example sounds wonderfully rich.

 

I am currently writing a course for parents on how to create your own integrated thematic studies.  I have built the course around a novel and how to take annotations from the book to explore topics across subjects that all link back to the general storyline in the novel.  The course is geared toward middle school students and shows the advantages of being able to pick resources that match your child's particular skill level vs. going with a pre-designed package that may or may not match your child's needs.  In addition to showing how to design your child's course, it also demonstrates how to generate writing assignments .

 

A brief summation is that the course includes how to weave history, science, literature, and composition into a cohesive study.

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I am currently finishing up a course for parents on how to create your own integrated thematic studies. I have built the course around a novel and how to take annotations from the book to explore topics across subjects that all link back to the general storyline in the novel. The course is geared toward middle school students and shows the advantages of being able to pick resources that match your child's particular skill level vs. going with a pre-designed package that may or may not match your child's needs. In addition to showing how to design your child's course, it also demonstrates how to generate writing assignments .

 

A brief summation is that the course includes how to weave history, science, literature, and composition into a cohesive study.

Thanks for the overview! Is the course you are taking linked in your signature?

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I agree. The article is a bit vague. I would love to have more detail on what they're implementing and how it translates into success in "industry and modern society" (as the article mentioned as their goal). The article also talks about how they're going to focus on changes in education to promote character, resilience and communication skills. I had a brief stint as a project manager in technology and worked with all kinds of "characters". Despite their character flaws, and lack of communication skills, many programmers were highly successful because of their ability to understand how complex systems work, and how they could add-to or change these systems without introducing new issues into the existing system--more of an "ability" than actual "knowledge". Changes in how we educate that would grow and enhance this "ability" would be interesting to me :)

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I am currently writing a course for parents on how to create your own integrated thematic studies. I have built the course around a novel and how to take annotations from the book to explore topics across subjects that all link back to the general storyline in the novel. The course is geared toward middle school students and shows the advantages of being able to pick resources that match your child's particular skill level vs. going with a pre-designed package that may or may not match your child's needs. In addition to showing how to design your child's course, it also demonstrates how to generate writing assignments .

 

A brief summation is that the course includes how to weave history, science, literature, and composition into a cohesive study.

Will you come here and teach me? ;)

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How can that possibly work? Is the teacher expected to re-teach Tuesday's material to the child who was not there and have the rest of the class sit by and be bored? Are the parents expected to teach Tuesday's material at home before sending their child on Wednesday?

 

As an instructor, I have to deal with students who miss class and then expect me to repeat for them what I told the class. I can expect adult college students to self study, but I do not think the same can be expected of 10 year olds.

 

Just to clarify, that was not actually a suggestion I'm seriously expecting you to implement. It's sort of a fantasy I have when the kids are being challenging. I imagine how nice it would be to just pop them in school for a couple or hours here, a day there, so I don't have to deal with them. [Ducks to evade flying tomatoes from supermoms who can't imagine not enjoying being with their kids 24/7/365.]

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I agree. The article is a bit vague. I would love to have more detail on what they're implementing and how it translates into success in "industry and modern society" (as the article mentioned as their goal). The article also talks about how they're going to focus on changes in education to promote character, resilience and communication skills. I had a brief stint as a project manager in technology and worked with all kinds of "characters". Despite their character flaws, and lack of communication skills, many programmers were highly successful because of their ability to understand how complex systems work, and how they could add-to or change these systems without introducing new issues into the existing system--more of an "ability" than actual "knowledge". Changes in how we educate that would grow and enhance this "ability" would be interesting to me :)

 

Yes, I thought there were a fair few buzzwords zinging around there. After all, every person involved with education claims to be preparing children for the global society of the 21st century, nurturing innovative learners, and the like. And no, the article I linked doesn't have enough detail to form a definite judgement on their pedagogy. But I did think it seemed odd that they would be tinkering around with a model that is already claimed to be superior to everybody else's, since the normal impetus for reform seems to be a critical mass of panic regarding an educational crisis (real or imagined).

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"No, Finland isn’t ditching traditional school subjects. Here’s what’s really happening."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/03/26/no-finlands-schools-arent-giving-up-traditional-subjects-heres-what-the-reforms-will-really-do/

 

Thanks for that.  This:

 

The concept of “phenomenon-based†teaching – a move away from “subjects†and towards inter-disciplinary topics 

 

 

sounds very appealing to me, and it's definitely the direction we're going.  We've done it this year with the Big History project and it's been awesome.  I'm really working on figuring out how to teach high-school level science in this way.  Some of the phenomena we want to study are evolution & genetics, watershed science/restoration ecology and agroecology/sustainable ag.  They all fit under the general topic of biology, but we want to approach them from an inter-disciplinary perspective, with as much field-based studies, work, and observations as possible, rather than just plowing through a textbook.

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  They all fit under the general topic of biology, but we want to approach them from an inter-disciplinary perspective, with as much field-based studies, work, and observations as possible, rather than just plowing through a textbook.

 

I struggle with this myself. In reality a lot of this has happened in my house just by virtue of how we live & being curious people. But I've also had several instances here - & I've definitely also observed it in other family's students - where a lack of attention to getting the nuts & bolts (whether it's math, or basic scientific facts knowledge or grammar) comes back to bite hard at the high school level.

 

Definitely not saying this of you - but just musing that there is a time & place for memorizing cell structure etc, kwim? And sometimes those things don't come up naturally.  I'm not an unschooler by any stretch but I was happy enough to float in an unschooly way wrt science through elementary & middle simply because we're a very sciency home. But there comes a time where you have to put butt in chair & do the grudge work.... Some of the unschooly kids have a lot of enthusiasm but completely inadequate knowledge bases & that hampers them at some point.  & I've also found myself wondering whether when the 'kids lose interest & move on to another topic' (which is how the parents present it) what's really happening is that the student realizes big gaps & is overwhelmed by the sudden need to really learn lots of background info to make sense of the more sophisticated topics.... I don't know. Just wondering out loud...

 

Definitely w/ my 2nd child I'm demanding much more textbooky stuff way earlier. Yes, integrated & yes inter-disciplinary but I'm more intent on refocusing some of the basics. My first has had to do some  catch up stuff at the college level & has some gaps which in 20/20 hindsight I should have prevented.

 

 

 

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I struggle with this myself. In reality a lot of this has happened in my house just by virtue of how we live & being curious people. But I've also had several instances here - & I've definitely also observed it in other family's students - where a lack of attention to getting the nuts & bolts (whether it's math, or basic scientific facts knowledge or grammar) comes back to bite hard at the high school level.

 

Definitely not saying this of you - but just musing that there is a time & place for memorizing cell structure etc, kwim? And sometimes those things don't come up naturally.  I'm not an unschooler by any stretch but I was happy enough to float in an unschooly way wrt science through elementary & middle simply because we're a very sciency home. But there comes a time where you have to put butt in chair & do the grudge work.... Some of the unschooly kids have a lot of enthusiasm but completely inadequate knowledge bases & that hampers them at some point.  & I've also found myself wondering whether when the 'kids lose interest & move on to another topic' (which is how the parents present it) what's really happening is that the student realizes big gaps & is overwhelmed by the sudden need to really learn lots of background info to make sense of the more sophisticated topics.... I don't know. Just wondering out loud...

 

Definitely w/ my 2nd child I'm demanding much more textbooky stuff way earlier. Yes, integrated & yes inter-disciplinary but I'm more intent on refocusing some of the basics. My first has had to do some  catch up stuff at the college level & has some gaps which in 20/20 hindsight I should have prevented.

 

 

 

 

I totally agree, and I do grapple with the bolded, and how to combine getting down the basic facts with developing an understanding of how the world works.  Some things you need to learn before you can fully appreciate the "cool" stuff, and sometimes you need to do that cool stuff in order to spark interest/motivation in doing the work of learning/memorizing the basics.

 

As I plan things out, I keep asking myself, "Ok, what basic knowledge does she need in order to study X" and then look for a way to do that, efficiently.  So it may involve doing lots of chapters from various textbooks, and more traditional labs. But maybe in a different order, with a different emphasis.  This is what ties back to studying interdisciplinary topics, rather than subjects.  Take watershed science.  Well, you definitely need some basic earth system science.  And ecology/botany/natural history.  And, oh yeah - water - so you need some of that very basic chemistry.  But I don't think you necessarily have to do a full chemistry course before you can start learning about your watershed.  So the challenge/goal is how to braid that all together, keep it engaging, and keep it real, as well as provide my student with the background she would need to study science in college successfully if that's what she chooses to do.

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I totally agree, and I do grapple with the bolded, and how to combine getting down the basic facts with developing an understanding of how the world works.  Some things you need to learn before you can fully appreciate the "cool" stuff, and sometimes you need to do that cool stuff in order to spark interest/motivation in doing the work of learning/memorizing the basics.

 

As I plan things out, I keep asking myself, "Ok, what basic knowledge does she need in order to study X" and then look for a way to do that, efficiently.  So it may involve doing lots of chapters from various textbooks, and more traditional labs. But maybe in a different order, with a different emphasis.  This is what ties back to studying interdisciplinary topics, rather than subjects.  Take watershed science.  Well, you definitely need some basic earth system science.  And ecology/botany/natural history.  And, oh yeah - water - so you need some of that very basic chemistry.  But I don't think you necessarily have to do a full chemistry course before you can start learning about your watershed.  So the challenge/goal is how to braid that all together, keep it engaging, and keep it real, as well as provide my student with the background she would need to study science in college successfully if that's what she chooses to do.

 

When I was in high school I took two courses that were meant to be interdisiplinary science, and one seemed to work, and the other didn't. Both had good teachers.

 

The first was a new grade 10 science course that was meant to prpare students for grade 10 and 11 biology, physics, and chemistry.  It was built around the brethalzer machine.  But, it didn't really seem to capture the students or hang together that well.

 

The other was oceanography, and wasn't even listed as a science, it was an elective credit like art.  We only had it because one of the science teachers had developed it, and it included kids from all the streams - general, academic, and so on.  It was really popular, and we talked about things like erosion, seawater chemistry, fishing, it was really quite broad.  Of all the science classes I took in high school, it's the one I retained the most from and still find useful.

 

The first class was based on a textbook, and in the end seemed really artificial, as if it was a gimmick.  The second wasn't like that at all and I could easily see it inspiring more in depth study into the nitty-gritty information.

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I struggle with this myself. In reality a lot of this has happened in my house just by virtue of how we live & being curious people. But I've also had several instances here - & I've definitely also observed it in other family's students - where a lack of attention to getting the nuts & bolts (whether it's math, or basic scientific facts knowledge or grammar) comes back to bite hard at the high school level.

 

Definitely not saying this of you - but just musing that there is a time & place for memorizing cell structure etc, kwim? And sometimes those things don't come up naturally.  I'm not an unschooler by any stretch but I was happy enough to float in an unschooly way wrt science through elementary & middle simply because we're a very sciency home. But there comes a time where you have to put butt in chair & do the grudge work.... Some of the unschooly kids have a lot of enthusiasm but completely inadequate knowledge bases & that hampers them at some point.  & I've also found myself wondering whether when the 'kids lose interest & move on to another topic' (which is how the parents present it) what's really happening is that the student realizes big gaps & is overwhelmed by the sudden need to really learn lots of background info to make sense of the more sophisticated topics.... I don't know. Just wondering out loud...

 

Definitely w/ my 2nd child I'm demanding much more textbooky stuff way earlier. Yes, integrated & yes inter-disciplinary but I'm more intent on refocusing some of the basics. My first has had to do some  catch up stuff at the college level & has some gaps which in 20/20 hindsight I should have prevented.

 

 

 

 

I am slightly confused by your post b/c I don't see integrated studies in the slightest way connected to unschooling. I am pretty sure the Finnish are not planning on strewing information hoping that students decide to engage.

 

Teaching without a textbook does not mean not learning specifics.  It simply means learning it in alternative manner.  One way I control what my kids are learning is by controlling their output.  While we do integrated thematic studies based on their interests, what they do for assignments are 100% generated by me.  So, if they are reading about cell structure, they would have to write a report on how a cell is structured.

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"No, Finland isn’t ditching traditional school subjects. Here’s what’s really happening."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/03/26/no-finlands-schools-arent-giving-up-traditional-subjects-heres-what-the-reforms-will-really-do/

 

Thanks for sharing that link.  I was very happy to read

 

It leaves educators freedom to find the best ways to offer good teaching and learning to all children. 

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"No, Finland isn’t ditching traditional school subjects. Here’s what’s really happening."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/03/26/no-finlands-schools-arent-giving-up-traditional-subjects-heres-what-the-reforms-will-really-do/

"You may wonder why Finland’s education authorities now insist that all schools must spend time on integration and phenomenon-based teaching when Finnish students’ test scores have been declining in the most recent international tests. The answer is that educators in Finland think, quite correctly, that schools should teach what young people need in their lives rather than try to bring national test scores back to where they were."

 

two thumbs up!  even if  "integration and phenomenon-based teaching" turns out to be another fad at least they have a proper goal in mind

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