S/o mass exodus

[PrincessMommy]

But when I ask a question, I have no idea who might know the answer.

 

UGH.

 

i agree... I wish it were different... I wish this place was more private.  I do know of other places with parts of their forums that are private - so it does seem possible at some level.   But, I know it's not going to change here so I act accordingly.  I've learned to sit on my hands... I actually wish I did it more often here too.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't see why it's anyone else's business where people spend their time online.

 

As to the role of this board, it depends on the thread:

 

If it is a thread asking for information, then the role of the thread is to dispense information.  (Which btw, was the role of the thread that this is a spin-off from.  Someone asked for information and it was given.  The only reason it changed a bit was because one person was more personal in her information and it involved PMs.)

 

If it is a thread asking for hugs and sympathy or prayer then the role of the thread is precisely that - hugs, sympathy or prayer.  

 

If it is a thread asking for advice then I want advice that comes with a bit of empathy attached esp. if it is asking for advice on something that might be a sensitive topic to the person asking for advice.  

 

If it is a thread that is exploring an issue then what I want is the freedom to explore that topic without having to follow WWE debate rules (ie. feeling like I've entered a wrestling match instead of an exchange of ideas from a range of perspectives.)

[fruitofthewomb]

I started to post this in that thread in response to one poster's comment re: this not being a safe place to share problems and concerns. It sparked a question/general wondering - but one that seems broader than just that one particular thread and context. Now to see if I can put the question(s) into words...

 

If you don't mind indulging my curiosity a bit, to get started:

 

What role(s) do internet discussion forums play in your life?

 

Have these forums (and the people) replaced in full, or in part, a real live human(s) in your life? Or changed the relationship(s) in some way? If so, is this positive or negative in your opinion?

 

I'm still trying to flesh out my thoughts on this, but hopefully this will get the discussion started while my mind munches on the rest.

 

Thanks for playing.

What role?

 

I have enjoyed visiting these forums to get advice & input on a range of topics. I enjoy reading the lively debates although I don't like the name calling & am sensitive so I rarely participate in anything controversial. I live in the rural south so I am not regularly exposed to people who look or believe differently than me. This board has been great for branching out & learning more about the other cultures/opinions/lifestyles of fellow homeschoolers & moms.

 

Have these forums (and the people) replaced in full, or in part, a real live human(s) in your life?

 

I became more involved in this board after my friendship with a group dissolved. I needed to fill a void. I do have close friends IRL but none that homeschool. I am not close to any of the homeschoolers here now.

Or changed the relationship(s) in some way?

 

After being around the board for a while I felt more confident in my choice to avoid my old group of friends.

 

If so, is this positive or negative in your opinion

 

Positive.

 

I don't feel like this is a safe place to share much about myself. I am often afraid to post anything for fear of what may happen. I can't take criticism so I try not to give opportunity for it. I sometimes think about leaving the boards for good but I think the diversity keeps me here.

 

I think the education boards have helped me become a better homeschooler.

 

I asked for a PM in the christian forum post bc I do want a safe place to talk about things-not bc I plan to leave here. I haven't even checked out the other place yet. Too busy reading stuff here!! I also asked bc I didn't know of any other forums like this where you can discuss anything-not just curriculum. I haven't really looked but...it was easy to ask for a PM so I did!

 

This board does leave me scratching my head sometimes but I still enjoy it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't see why it's anyone else's business where people spend their time online.

 

 

Yep.  I don't think anyone needs to explain themselves.  And I find it kinda funny that some people act like ewww you spend that much time on line, but then there they are discussing it with me. 

 

And then there is the fact everyone I encounter is glued to their devices even when they are around other people. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

P.S.  This forum has given me some "real life" friendships.  Some were people I knew before coming to this board.  Some were people I met at WTM get-togethers.  Some are phone pals.  Some are pen pals.  The phone and pen pals are no less real pals despite us not having the money for airfare so that we could meet in person.  

[aprilleigh]

Since I started the christian board thread, let me say that I was not starting an exodus. I just wondered if there were other boards.

 

I don't fit anywhere anyway. I am a born again christian, but I believe in evolution, think women can be preachers, believe homosexuality is a sin( though no worse than gossip)that the church spends too much on buildings and sound systems than working among the poor, and that I should submit to my husband.

 

But I don't necessarily care if you don't think what I do, but I don't want you to think I'm intellectually inferior, bigoted or abused which is what I feel like sometimes.... Not sure it is the boards fault. I just need something more encouraging and we love you... I'm not necessarily leaving either. I have a house full of company coming so I may not post until Monday.

 

I'm with you, almost - my views differ on a couple things, but I'm of the opinion that this makes you different, not inferior or superior. I have loads of friends who don't see eye-to-eye with me on various topics, but it doesn't change the things that bonded us in the first place.

[Guest]

Are we even sure this board is populated overwhelmingly by Christians? I know people who didnt vote. There are perhaps thousands who lurk without posting much. I guess it doesn't make much difference really. I do think it has become more diverse with regard to religion, race, and sexual preferences. And that's what matters most, IMO, to everyone. Some embrace the diversity, some seem unsettled.

Diversity I have no problem with. It's the hostility and aggression I refuse to engage for any length of time. If that means I appear to lose any and all contentious discussions by way of bowing out, oh well.

 

I've seen this time and again. This forum is no exception.

[Guest]

I have many IRL friends that I share problems with, pray with, laugh with, and cry with. Some have children and homeschool, and some don't.

 

I come here to find help with homeschooling, find out about curriculum, and even medical help :p

 

I try to avoid the controversial topics because I am very sensitive in my nature. I am a pleaser and would hate to hurt anyone, even if I do not agree with them. Just my personality, that is all.

 

Saying all this, I do have a few posters/ ladies here I have a great fondness for in my heart, and smile when I see their posts, pray for them, cry for them, or just appreciate their kind words to my posts or to other posts. There are other posters here that I have great respect for because they take such a stand for their beliefs. Very few on here, I feel so sad when I see how others are being treated by them.

 

Life is short, Love.

Liking it wasn't enough. Excellent post.

[Joanne]

 

I just want people to follow the board rules. I've been called quite a few names, and completely disrespected on more than one occasion. I've seen many unnecessary comments on "He is risen" style threads and people seem to think that CC is code for lets go in and question everything about the church.

 

I have been here 15+ years and NEVER, EVER seen "He Is Risen" threads (and similar) disrespected. Ever.

 

I've also not observed "CC" threads frequently or pervsavely taken over by the type of discussion you mention. That said, there tends to be some ambiguity about what "CC" conveys. I remember when it was first being used, and it was to alert posters that there will be Christian Content, but it was not intended to convey exclusion - such as a JAWM.

 

I've been on Christians boards - as a Christian - and seen the same level of heated discussion.

[PeacefulChaos]

What role(s) do internet discussion forums play in your life?

 

Have these forums (and the people) replaced in full, or in part, a real live human(s) in your life? Or changed the relationship(s) in some way? If so, is this positive or negative in your opinion?

 

 

 

1. They're a place to use up time when I don't have anything else to do.  Occasionally, they are a place for me to get opinions - usually either on educational things or other things (opinions, situations) that my usual sounding board of friends doesn't have experience with.

 

2. Replaced at all?  Not a chance.  The boards are much more of a pastime for me and less of something that I'm actively engaged in.  The only way relationships could be considered changed is because I've heard of a whole lot more curriculum than my friends have lol.  :D  :lol:  Nothing real earth shattering.

[idnib]

What role(s) do internet discussion forums play in your life?

 

Have these forums (and the people) replaced in full, or in part, a real live human(s) in your life? Or changed the relationship(s) in some way? If so, is this positive or negative in your opinion?

 

I'm still trying to flesh out my thoughts on this, but hopefully this will get the discussion started while my mind munches on the rest.

 

Thanks for playing.

 

Role: Community, information, educational advice. This is really then only forum in which I participate but there are others I just read. WTM has made my homeschool so much better than it would have been if I had come up with stuff in isolation. It's much more dynamic and tailored. I have gone long stretches of avoiding the Chat board.

 

These forums have not in anyway replaced real humans. Sometimes a few things come together that cause me to spend more time on forums than I would like, but it's always temporary. So national election + interesting threads on WTM + major news item might become too much of a time suck for a week. But these things always fade soon.

[idnib]

I'm not talking about critique, but insults. The examples I gave were real ones; stupid (YEC thread), selfish (parenting thread on privileges) and a bad parent (discipline). All of those are old examples and I'm not searching for the links so please don't ask me to find them.

 

I've never intentionally said anything nasty to someone who disagrees with me. I do tend to word myself poorly and when I get called out on that I apologize because I truly am sorry, hence the editing. My smiley faces are a way of indicating that I'm trying to be friendly on a sensitive topic. There are a lot of people on this board who disagree with me. Do I think they're wrong? Yes, but I don't think they're foolish. I respect them.

 

There is a lot more conversation going on there than you can see. We want a safe place to discuss certain things, but as someone pointed out, this place is invaluable. I recently posted a topic on Miquon. I'm familiar with some of the people who responded and I take comfort in knowing that I understand where the person is coming from. I've learned how people here think about their particular schools and I know how to translate that into my own home. I'm just a baby homeschooler and I have so much to learn. I don't think any of us are going anywhere.

 

I just want people to follow the board rules. I've been called quite a few names, and completely disrespected on more than one occasion. I've seen many unnecessary comments on "He is risen" style threads and people seem to think that CC is code for lets go in and question everything about the church.

 

I'm not saying I agree with you. I actually don't have enough information one way or the other. But I understand this is the perception you have of the situation.

 

What happened when you reported what you saw as the breaking of board rules? Do you think it's realistic to expect that the rules will always be followed in a diverse community of (mostly) IRL strangers, or do you think the rules might be broken and will need to be reported X% of the time? And that when they are reported, the moderator may or may not agree with the person reporting?

 

I expect that rules will be broken some of the time when you have thousands of interactions/day on a diverse range of topics. I understand the desire to not want them broken in the first place, but I find that unrealistic. Then I have to add in the idea that what I consider breaking a board rules, others, including the mods, may not. 

 

:)

[blackjackoaktree]

I've been online since the early '90s and lurked here for ages, and even more likely signed up with some name over a decade ago that I don't even remember and probably don't even have the email for any longer. 

 

I use online forums to convey and learn information, to participate in discussions, and to find fun silly things to laugh at. Depending on the online hangout, there's going to be a skewed world-view based on the majority or the origin of the site, so I keep that in mind. (Like I'm not about to talk about half the things here I might talk about at Reddit or at one of my fandom forums or on Tumblr).

 

Sometimes people need to step back and take a break. Sometimes, you are looking for that niche space to talk about more in detail. I'm a huge fan of stuff like Star Trek, Stargate, Harry Potter, Tolkien fandom-- I'm not going to start 35345345 threads here about the minor details of that, I'd go hunting around for something more specific. My family life includes hardline and lapsed Catholics, Lutherans, non-denom christians, athiests, agnostics, pagans, but if I wanted more details or deep discussion, I'd probably look for that too.

 

 

I do think it can be an eye opening experience for people that never leave their self-contained communities, only get their news from one source, only stick around people of similar culture or religion or orientation or gender or fleshtone. How they handle that though, is another thing.

[hillfarm]

Role: information and entertainment, I live in a rural area at the end of a dead-end road, so it gave me a lot of mental stimulation and socialization with adults.

 

I think it is unwise to think of anything online as a private or safe space.

 

I doubt anyone has noticed, but I have cut way back on my presence here. And most of the time when I am here, I lurk only and don't comment. I used to feel that my opinions were welcomed and perhaps even helpful to others occasionally. However within the last year or so, I have felt very out of step with many who post here. It is not due to diversity - in other groups I participate in, I find the differences enlightening and thought provoking. Here it usually spirals out of control and quickly turns rude and spiteful. And I learned long ago not to bother when the other party is focused on taking snarky pot shots rather than truly trying to understand and willing to hear. Effective communication cannot take place in that type of environment. IMO some here are more enamored of conflict than with education or family life.

 

 

[Catwoman]

Role: information and entertainment, I live in a rural area at the end of a dead-end road, so it gave me a lot of mental stimulation and socialization with adults.

 

I think it is unwise to think of anything online as a private or safe space.

 

I doubt anyone has noticed, but I have cut way back on my presence here. And most of the time when I am here, I lurk only and don't comment. I used to feel that my opinions were welcomed and perhaps even helpful to others occasionally. However within the last year or so, I have felt very out of step with many who post here. It is not due to diversity - in other groups I participate in, I find the differences enlightening and thought provoking. Here it usually spirals out of control and quickly turns rude and spiteful. And I learned long ago not to bother when the other party is focused on taking snarky pot shots rather than truly trying to understand and willing to hear. Effective communication cannot take place in that type of environment. IMO some here are more enamored of conflict than with education or family life.

I have missed your posts, hillfarm, but I understand your reasons for cutting back. I wish you would start posting more often again, though.

[Stellalarella]

There are about 3-4 boarders I do think are hostile and whose posting tends to be geared to silencing others. Either thru belittling, antagonizing or getting threads closed.

 

I have noticed many members who I really enjoyed even if I disagreed with them don't bother posting anymore. I miss them but understand. I go through phases of walking away myself when I think or feel people aren't really interested in a genuine discussion anymore. Or that it's hitting the replay cycle. I've been home schooling for a while now and some topics just keep recycling.

 

I suspect many looking for another board won't necessarily leave this one. Or not totally abandon it. But I also think the bigger issue is some of those people don't feel comfortable sharing in discussions here. I understand why they might feel that way. It isn't necessarily about seeking like-minded people. It's wanting to have open discussion without feeling harassed and ridiculed.

 

 

Yep.  Thanks for saying it.  

[Chris in VA]

 I love it here.

I have received so much support, esp when my family was in hard situations. I know I overshared then; it was hard not to, because  my social role in real life left me with only a few places to seek support, and because I am the type of person who needs to talk to reach peace. I have edited a lot that I used to have online, because I became more informed WRT what is appropriate. So I'd say this forum supplements my IRL relationships. But in my head, I think of you as IRL people, too. (Of course you are--but I'm sure YKWIM.)

 

I'm sorry people have felt that others were mean to them. No one has ever, ever been mean to me here, and I'm sure there was opportunity to be. I feel you all let me be myself, and I really appreciate that.

 

People make me think here. The sharing of experiences and opinions helps me to see other viewpoints. I certainly don't agree with lots of people, but hearing their thoughts makes me dig deep into why I disagree. That can both strengthen and change my personal positions on matters that I really value.

 

I learn things here I never would IRL.

 

I just am very grateful for you.

 

 

[Seasider]

Role: information and entertainment, I live in a rural area at the end of a dead-end road, so it gave me a lot of mental stimulation and socialization with adults.

 

I think it is unwise to think of anything online as a private or safe space.

 

I doubt anyone has noticed, but I have cut way back on my presence here. And most of the time when I am here, I lurk only and don't comment. I used to feel that my opinions were welcomed and perhaps even helpful to others occasionally. However within the last year or so, I have felt very out of step with many who post here. It is not due to diversity - in other groups I participate in, I find the differences enlightening and thought provoking. Here it usually spirals out of control and quickly turns rude and spiteful. And I learned long ago not to bother when the other party is focused on taking snarky pot shots rather than truly trying to understand and willing to hear. Effective communication cannot take place in that type of environment. IMO some here are more enamored of conflict than with education or family life.

Hillfarm, I do miss your posts. You are so often the voice of reason.

[Stellalarella]

It seems to me that one thing that folks could do would be to kindly call out name calling/insults on the thread rather than reporting first.   

 

"To poster 123abc, It seems like you are using a really uncivil tone with  poster xyz.  Is that really what you are intending to express?  Is there a way you could focus your words a bit more on the topic and less on the person?"

 

And then if the incivility continues, then report it.  Seriously.  

 

I'm always so thankful when a wise poster calls someone out in a non-threatening way.  I do appreciate it, too, when people will step in and defend a poster's character if needs be.  

 

And sometimes people on the threads need to be interpreters.  If you have a handful of people who are going at it, it's helpful when someone steps in and says, "It seems like what you are trying to say is this and what you are trying to say is that."  Those posts will often give people just a minute to think.

 

I believe there is a learning curve in coming to be a positive, helpful poster on a forum.  It's not just automatic for everyone.  But a few kindly corrects might help put someone on the right track.  I've misstepped and learned from the harsh, angry rebuttal, but it's just nice to have folks assume I may have put my foot in my mouth and need a nudge to figure that out without assuming that I am the worst human being ever to post on a forum, ever. 

 

Also, I think  people are just reading things really fast, in tiny mobil phone print and are just not thinking things through before they hit "post."

 

 

 

[Slache]

I'm not saying I agree with you. I actually don't have enough information one way or the other. But I understand this is the perception you have of the situation.

 

What happened when you reported what you saw as the breaking of board rules? I've never reported things like that, but the particularly nasty ones have been deleted and threads locked. Do you think it's realistic to expect that the rules will always be followed in a diverse community of (mostly) IRL strangers, or do you think the rules might be broken and will need to be reported X% of the time? I think people need to act like adults under any circumstances. This means not name calling and not running to SWB every time someone upsets you. And that when they are reported, the moderator may or may not agree with the person reporting?

 

I expect that rules will be broken some of the time when you have thousands of interactions/day on a diverse range of topics. I understand the desire to not want them broken in the first place, but I find that unrealistic. Then I have to add in the idea that what I consider breaking a board rules, others, including the mods, may not. True.

 

:)

Eta: I'm not saying there isn't a time and a place for the report button, I'm just saying it seems to be overused.

[goldberry]

It is these types of responses, those which belittle the original posters, which make a board an "unsafe" place emotionally. And I apologize in advance for using your post as an example, it was just the first one I saw.

 

 

 

But see, that's what's so hard about it....I did not read her post as belittling the original poster at all.  I thought she was asking a valid question pertinent to the subject matter.

 

Now if she had said, "How stupid are you that you would think the internet has anywhere emotionally safe?" That's belittling.  She phrased her question respectfully and non-attacking, asking genuinely to hear another viewpoint from people who think that way. How is that belittling?

 

But...this is a good example of why things get turned around.  People see things totally differently.  We hear different things from the same statement.

[Guest]

Been there, done that, bought the T shirt.

 

Forum boards can get really nasty really fast. I don't have the time and energy for a "home on the internet" any more and have always tried to make that very clear here, both to myself and to The Hive.

 

I'm not Christian, but since the majority of people here are, I try to conduct myself accordingly--I wouldn't walk into a random church and start spouting out snark so I don't snark here or post personal information about my gay cousin or irrelevant details about my family and spiritual beliefs.

 

One of my first posts was an honest answer to the question, "How can ANYBODY be against adoption?" and I was mistaken for a troll. A bit of lurking cleared up the fact that this was an honest mistake and that walking away and letting my actions (posting honest answers to honest questions, giving hugs to folks in need, being polite and tactful to people with different life experiences, etc.) speak for themselves.

 

Can the chat board replace IRL friends? Would I really expect chat board friends to waste their vacation time and money to come visit me AFK?

 

I don't think so. It still has a valuable place in my life and I will still come to visit and appreciate little tidbits of advice, such as skipping the worksheets in my first grader's manipulative based math program, seeing if the library has this or that fun read aloud, not beating myself up over a few dishes in the sink, or not taking curriculum ads as seriously as I did pre-internet.

[fraidycat]

 

What role(s) do internet discussion forums play in your life?

 

Have these forums (and the people) replaced in full, or in part, a real live human(s) in your life? Or changed the relationship(s) in some way? If so, is this positive or negative in your opinion?

 

.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

 

1) Entertainment, education, edutainment. :)

 

2) It fills the gaps for daily, direct socialization. We move a lot, so my "social group" is often in flux. It has changed my real life relationships, positively, because as an extrovert, I am less "needy" of my real life family and friends.

 

However, my real life people are still my "safe place". I was caught off guard that anyone would have the expectation that a public forum, populated by multi-thousands of people from all over the world would/could/should be such a place. My eyes were opened just a little more to the diversity of perception and expectation. You'd think I'd know all this by now since I've been participating in forums since 2000, but I do have a weak memory, so I'm probably just re-learning an old lesson.

 

As for my choosing to use "mass exodus" as my wording: I've got no deep philosophical reasoning for it. It was was my knee-jerk reaction to that whole thread. I guess I had "the feels" - nothing more, nothing less.

[albeto.]

I'm not talking about critique, but insults. The examples I gave were real ones; stupid (YEC thread), selfish (parenting thread on privileges) and a bad parent (discipline). All of those are old examples and I'm not searching for the links so please don't ask me to find them.

 

I've never intentionally said anything nasty to someone who disagrees with me. 

 

The concept of accusing someone of inappropriate behavior is important enough to inspire civil law - one is allowed to face their accuser and to have the opportunity to defend themselves from accusation in a court of law. While this forum is not a court of law, by not providing that opportunity, you as the accuser are allowed to defame the character of this vague "someone" over and over again. Elsewhere this might be considered a nasty thing to do. 

[Slache]

The concept of accusing someone of inappropriate behavior is important enough to inspire civil law - one is allowed to face their accuser and to have the opportunity to defend themselves from accusation in a court of law. While this forum is not a court of law, by not providing that opportunity, you as the accuser are allowed to defame the character of this vague "someone" over and over again. Elsewhere this might be considered a nasty thing to do.

I imagine the aforementioned posts have been deleted, but I do point it out when I see it, as so others. I've written over 60 PMs in the past few days after being contacted from the other thread because of this very problem. I was flabbergasted to see that THAT many people have a problem with the goings on of this place.

[fraidycat]

 

There are about 3-4 boarders I do think are hostile and whose posting tends to be geared to silencing others. Either thru belittling, antagonizing or getting threads closed.

I agree. But, I bet my list of 3-4 is vastly different from your list - complete opposite ends of the spectrum different.

 

 

And honestly I don't think anyone cares about a mass exodus anyways. Not enough to change anything anyways. So it's good to have multiple community options and guard against emotional attachment to any of them. I too have seen many long time boards and groups (online & IRL) implode or divide or just go silent as people quietly left. It's made me jaded about how much people actually care about it and instead view it as a natural cycle of life of thing. Sad but inevitable and not the end, but a start of something else.

Agreed. Not just online forums, though. My entire view of all relationships tends to fall into this "jaded/cycle of life" camp. Reason, season, lifetime. Most are reason or season.

[Catwoman]

The concept of accusing someone of inappropriate behavior is important enough to inspire civil law - one is allowed to face their accuser and to have the opportunity to defend themselves from accusation in a court of law. While this forum is not a court of law, by not providing that opportunity, you as the accuser are allowed to defame the character of this vague "someone" over and over again. Elsewhere this might be considered a nasty thing to do. 

 

I think it would be considered a far nastier thing to do if people started naming names. 

 

Not only would there be anger, hurt feelings, and lots of people defending their friends who had been accused (followed by other people defending the accusers,) poor Susan would be inundated with reports from all sides.

[albeto.]

I imagine the aforementioned posts have been deleted, but I do point it out when I see it, as so others. I've written over 60 PMs in the past few days after being contacted from the other thread because of this very problem. I was flabbergasted to see that THAT many people have a problem with the goings on of this place.

 

If offending posts are gone, it sounds as if the problem addressed appropriately. 

 

The YEC thread is up and untouched. Can you link to the post in which you or someone else is called "stupid" against the board rules as you accuse?

 

You've gotten 60 PMs from people who want to know about a new secret place where their opinions won't be challenged because you offered that information via PM. Not everyone thinks that indicates a problem (comments start here).  I've received more than 60 "likes" since midnight last night, which suggests to me that what some see as problematic, others consider to be posts that are beneficial to the community or at least the topic at hand. Rather than getting into a pissing match about who has greater support, I wonder if it wouldn't be more prudent to explore the OP's idea about what function this forum serves. If it is understood to serve as a means of support for homeschooling, I think there's much credibility to that. If it's understood to serve as a means to support religious beliefs, I think that's an expectation not shared by all.

 

Further, I think that confusing being held accountable with being insulted is problematic. Ultimately, I think that's what's going on here. I think being held accountable for making claims (from the benefits of spanking to homeopathy to YEC to changing diapers at Starbucks to any number of ideas) is an integral part of a well trained mind, if you'll excuse my bad pun. Collecting a large database of knowledge, facts, information, and then applying them off one another in a logical manner is what classical homeschooling is all about. It should come as no surprise to find that very method utilized in general around here. 

 

But that doesn't mean that challenging an idea or a claim is equivalent to making a character analysis of a person. 

 

I think this is really fundamentally important, and I think this is the crux of many instances of personal discomfort. 

[albeto.]

I think it would be considered a far nastier thing to do if people started naming names. 

 

Not only would there be anger, hurt feelings, and lots of people defending their friends who had been accused (followed by other people defending the accusers,) poor Susan would be inundated with reports from all sides.

 

[/obligatory reminder of Ignore feature]

[fraidycat]

I think it would be considered a far nastier thing to do if people started naming names.

 

Not only would there be anger, hurt feelings, and lots of people defending their friends who had been accused (followed by other people defending the accusers,) poor Susan would be inundated with reports from all sides.

Direct links with direct quotes would suffice. If it's true, it's already here on the boards, unchecked for all to see.

 

The PERCEPTION of a direct attack is commented on time and time again in pretty much every controversial thread. When it did cross the line (in BOTH directions) SWB has dealt with it. The accusations outweigh the evidence 100:1, though.

[Slache]

If offending posts are gone, it sounds as if the problem addressed appropriately. But it continues to happen again and again, which is why I started avoiding certain threads.

 

The YEC thread is up and untouched. Can you link to the post in which you or someone else is called "stupid" against the board rules as you accuse? It was an older YEC thread, back when I first joined.

 

You've gotten 60 PMs from people who want to know about a new secret place where their opinions won't be challenged because you offered that information via PM. Not everyone thinks that indicates a problem (comments start here).  I've received more than 60 "likes" since midnight last night, which suggests to me that what some see as problematic, others consider to be posts that are beneficial to the community or at least the topic at hand. Rather than getting into a pissing match about who has greater support, I wonder if it wouldn't be more prudent to explore the OP's idea about what function this forum serves. If it is understood to serve as a means of support for homeschooling, I think there's much credibility to that. If it's understood to serve as a means to support religious beliefs, I think that's an expectation not shared by all.

 

Further, I think that confusing being held accountable with being insulted is problematic. Being called stupid is not the same thing as being held accountable. Ultimately, I think that's what's going on here. I think being held accountable for making claims (from the benefits of spanking to homeopathy to YEC to changing diapers at Starbucks to any number of ideas) is an integral part of a well trained mind, if you'll excuse my bad pun. Collecting a large database of knowledge, facts, information, and then applying them off one another in a logical manner is what classical homeschooling is all about. It should come as no surprise to find that very method utilized in general around here. I COMPLETELY agree, but that's not what I'm talking about.

 

But that doesn't mean that challenging an idea or a claim is equivalent to making a character analysis of a person. Agreed.

 

I think this is really fundamentally important, and I think this is the crux of many instances of personal discomfort. 

 

[Catwoman]

[/obligatory reminder of Ignore feature]

 

I have no idea what you mean by that. I was simply responding to your post.

[albeto.]

 

I have no idea what you mean by that. I was simply responding to your post.

 

 

I only meant that it would appear the best solution is one that seems to be forgotten - the ignore feature. 

 

There was no hidden meaning under that, it's just that everything I tried to articulate kept coming back to this idea, so I just put it in brackets. 

[Catwoman]

I only meant that it would appear the best solution is one that seems to be forgotten - the ignore feature.

 

There was no hidden meaning under that, it's just that everything I tried to articulate kept coming back to this idea, so I just put it in brackets.

OK, thanks -- Don't mind me; apparently I'm having another one of my clueless days! :)

[Scarlett]

Well, I love this forum. I did almost quit this forum very recently, due to the large tatooed model thread. I have concluded (again) that obesity is a topic I simply cannot discuss. I don't know if the fault rests solely on myself; that I just despise obesity so fiercly that I don't recognize how hurtful I am being, or if some posters just personalize what I say in an unbalenced way, or some mash-up of the two. It reminds me, though, that I need to police myself.

 

I have gotten priceless value from these forums over the years. It has made me a far more tolerant person. There are people and situations here that I'm very unlikely to interact with IRL. Furthermore, there is a frankness possible on the internet that is less accessible IRL. A member here helped me, partially thru PM, partially thru posts, to much better understand transgender realities. This is not very accessible to me IRL and I could have just lived on thinking, " I can't understand that weirdness."

 

Other than debate topics, I love the practical information, too. I love learning some clever thing or a recipe. I love seeing what people's kids are planning to do after high school; reading on the college board is delightful. IRL, you don't want to be that mom who can talk about nothing else but your child's college decisions, but on the college board, you can! Everyone there is ready to talk about post-high kids. It's marvelous!

 

I have IRL friends, too, but the great thing about this forum is that it's like having a little room where some of your friends are gathered any time, any day. Plus, you can zero in on the exact thing you want to discuss, which is not necessaily true IRL. To gather five friends IRL, it often takes weeks of notice. Once you finally do get together, who knows what topics are going to be discussed? Maybe one of the five friends has a major problem and that will be the focus. Which is fine - for sure, we all need that, too - but it's nice to be able to go to my little friend room, give a shout out on any topic, and momentarily have a big group of "friends" who are happy to talk about this subject right now.

You pretty much summed up exactly how I feel about this place.

[Minerva]

I take my job as a mother and a homeschooler seriously, and I find the forum to be a place where I can discuss my job with other people who share the same vocation. My husband gets to go to work every day and talk with other grown up professionals, and when I found this forum I realized this was missing from my life.  I am especially grateful for the LD forum which is way more emotionally supportive (as well as informed) than any real life place I know of to talk about our kids who need extra support. I am, without a doubt, a better educator because of the WTM forums. I don't post much on the Chat board but generally find it entertaining. I especially appreciate all of the strong voices who make their points with clarity and gusto. We are a community of educators and lively discussion should be encouraged. 

[Slache]

The question that is of interest to me, after reading these responses, is what do we do when there are multiple and competing perspectives of what's going on ?

 

I happen to share albeto's pov; other people happen to share Slache's pov. There is no objective reality to appeal to here, as this thread is about perceptions, and our perceptions are rarely 100% objective.

 

Even a moderator will have her responses - does this break a rule ? Is this reportable ? - coloured by perceptions.

 

So - what are some suggestions about how to negotiate these differing perspectives ? 'Giving up' - by looking solely for groups who share your perspective, or putting many people on ignore is one option. What are the others ?

 

Given we all have cognitive biases - every single one of us :) - is negotiating the space even possible ?

Watch the way you word things.

 

1. I don't think black people should have the right to vote.

 

2. N*ggers are retarded and shouldn't be voting.

 

Obviously an extreme example, but one isn't intended to offend (even if the content is offensive), while the other is.

 

Albeto and I disagree on *so* much, but she doesn't belittle or insult me. She thinks I'm wrong, but tries to point out what she considers ignorance with respect.

[Catwoman]

One thing that just occurred to me is that a few people seem to be focusing on albeto, as though she is the only person who has ever posted anything that might have offended someone.

 

I don't think that's fair, and I also don't think it's true. There are several people who could very easily be called snarky, bullying, and confrontational. I'm not proud of it, but I'm sure I would make it on to some people's lists for exactly those offenses -- and I'm really hoping people don't start naming names so I can find out for sure.

 

I think it's fine to talk about how people are feeling that they are being attacked or bullied because I do believe it happens and I also think our fellow boardies' perceptions of how they are being treated is important even if we don't necessarily agree with them about it, but I also think we can all quietly determine whether or not we might have been one of the instigators and try harder not to repeat our less-than-stellar behavior in the future, without anyone being called out individually.

[Guest]

One thing that just occurred to me is that a few people seem to be focusing on albeto, as though she is the only person who has ever posted anything that might have offended someone.

 

I don't think that's fair, and I also don't think it's true. There are several people who could very easily be called snarky, bullying, and confrontational. I'm not proud of it, but I'm sure I would make it on to some people's lists for exactly those offenses -- and I'm really hoping people don't start naming names so I can find out for sure.

 

I think it's fine to talk about how people are feeling that they are being attacked or bullied because I do believe it happens and I also think our fellow boardies' perceptions of how they are being treated is important even if we don't necessarily agree with them about it, but I also think we can all quietly determine whether or not we might have been one of the instigators and try harder not to repeat our less-than-stellar behavior in the future, without anyone being called out individually.

She wouldn't make the top five of my personal list. That's a fact, ma'am! Saying something disagreeable isn't problematic at all, compared to saying it in a disagreeable *manner*. Rude hotheads are what make me consider leaving boards, not diverse opinions or deep and unbridgeable differences in viewpoint.

[Audrey]

I think that other thread you're referencing is no more and no less than another version of a whiney swan song.  I just wish people would quit doing that and not let the door smack them in the butt on their way out.  Sheesh already!   :001_rolleyes:

[Slache]

One thing that just occurred to me is that a few people seem to be focusing on albeto, as though she is the only person who has ever posted anything that might have offended someone.

 

I don't think that's fair, and I also don't think it's true. There are several people who could very easily be called snarky, bullying, and confrontational. I'm not proud of it, but I'm sure I would make it on to some people's lists for exactly those offenses -- and I'm really hoping people don't start naming names so I can find out for sure.

 

I think it's fine to talk about how people are feeling that they are being attacked or bullied because I do believe it happens and I also think our fellow boardies' perceptions of how they are being treated is important even if we don't necessarily agree with them about it, but I also think we can all quietly determine whether or not we might have been one of the instigators and try harder not to repeat our less-than-stellar behavior in the future, without anyone being called out individually.

I think people are picking on her because she's here. If you asked me if *you* upset me I would answer *you* because it's honest. If you asked me about someone else I would decline to answer because I feel that that is dishonest. She asked, so she's fair game.

[Guest]

albeto is one of the most complained about, most reported people on these boards, for the least reason.

 

But anyway. Can we get back to the more interesting questions ? This isn't a classroom where the teacher gets us all to sign a contract to be good little kiddies.

 

It's grown and supposedly intelligent women, who could think about ideas around negotiating otherness, and discuss them.

I like the ignore button, humor, or rolling my eyes and walking away without posting. Ranting to my spouse about wrong people on the Internet is also helpful :)

[Audrey]

One thing that just occurred to me is that a few people seem to be focusing on albeto, as though she is the only person who has ever posted anything that might have offended someone.

 

I don't think that's fair, and I also don't think it's true. There are several people who could very easily be called snarky, bullying, and confrontational. I'm not proud of it, but I'm sure I would make it on to some people's lists for exactly those offenses -- and I'm really hoping people don't start naming names so I can find out for sure.

 

I think it's fine to talk about how people are feeling that they are being attacked or bullied because I do believe it happens and I also think our fellow boardies' perceptions of how they are being treated is important even if we don't necessarily agree with them about it, but I also think we can all quietly determine whether or not we might have been one of the instigators and try harder not to repeat our less-than-stellar behavior in the future, without anyone being called out individually.

 

 

You have been consistently accusatory toward albeto right along with the others who jump on her every post, so if you think you might be on a list of "not well-liked" posters, then there may be warrant for that. 

 

If people who do that could actually come up with posts where she explicitly does attack another poster, that would be one thing.  But, she doesn't do that.  Every time I see people attack her it is because they read some "tone" or "attitude" into her posts that simply is NOT there in her actual wording.  She's not tossing out riddles.  She makes very clear statements and most of her posts also offer links to evidence her statements.  She, of all people on this board, is one of the ones who best exemplifies logic and a well-trained mind.  That some people decide to be all butt-hurt over her very existence here is their own problem -- not hers. 

[Guest]

So. It seems there is still a need to vent about our emotional perspectives, before we talk about solutions to a situation where subjective perspectives differ and clash ?

There is no good solution, Sadie. Topics are avoided, they are spoken about humorously or carefully, or they're off limits. There really aren't other options that work in reality. People have to choose to not get personally offended even when they disagree, even when someone states something badly or they think it's meant to be a barb. Many folks can't do that, or just seem to get their kicks out of attacking posters. This isn't limited to one person or side, though I can think of a few who just break my brain with their refusal to engage others in good faith to actually understand their intent and not just assume the worst of their posts on any number of topics.

 

But I've been on online message boards for, wow, almost two decades of my less than three decade life. Eek. In forums from fanfiction to perfume to guinea pigs to parenting it always plays out the same way - like the mean girls crowd at school. Either it's a free for all, it's moderated so heavily no waves are ever made, or its in the weird and tenuous position of things being allowed but often shut down, self censored, or mod censored because too many people take offense and get upset at other posters instead of just walking away. So it's really up to the moderators how they want to structure their forums, because people devolve into bad behavior even on goldfish enthusiast sites if the rules allow for it!

[albeto.]

She said "butt"

 

 

 

[happi duck]

For me, the hive is like an awesome, ever changing magazine. I learn so much and especially enjoy finding out how others think.

 

My teens and I have great discussions based on topics that I see here.

 

Besides dh and my kids, I don't really have anyone irl so I appreciate feeling like I can take part in discussions here.

 

Irl, I'm not "X" enough so I appreciate the diversity here. I'd never be able to feel welcome in a narrow place.

[Catwoman]

You have been consistently accusatory toward albeto right along with the others who jump on her every post, so if you think you might be on a list of "not well-liked" posters, then there may be warrant for that. 

 

If people who do that could actually come up with posts where she explicitly does attack another poster, that would be one thing.  But, she doesn't do that.  Every time I see people attack her it is because they read some "tone" or "attitude" into her posts that simply is NOT there in her actual wording.  She's not tossing out riddles.  She makes very clear statements and most of her posts also offer links to evidence her statements.  She, of all people on this board, is one of the ones who best exemplifies logic and a well-trained mind.  That some people decide to be all butt-hurt over her very existence here is their own problem -- not hers. 

 

OK, so I guess we are naming names after all. :rolleyes: I guess I made your list of "not-well-liked posters." So be it.

 

I have had issues with albeto in the past and I stand by my words. I have also agreed with her on other occasions. Clearly, you and I will have to agree to disagree, because you seem quite determined to defend every last thing she has ever posted and I find that to be ridiculous. Neither you nor I can know for sure what her intentions are in every thread. All we really have are our own interpretations and clearly, our interpretations differ.

 

That said, I hope you will stop singling out albeto, as I don't think it helps the discussion to get mired down in a personal dispute. My point was that it isn't necessary to point fingers at individuals when many of us are guilty of the same offenses, and that it would be preferable if people would try to be more careful about attacking and bullying our fellow board members.

 

[Audrey]

I think it would be considered a far nastier thing to do if people started naming names. 

 

Not only would there be anger, hurt feelings, and lots of people defending their friends who had been accused (followed by other people defending the accusers,) poor Susan would be inundated with reports from all sides.

 

 

Really?  I think it's more junior-high-b!tch-posse to coyly or vaguely "call out" the "certain poster" or "certain someone(s)" when everyone reading knows exactly who you are talking about already. 

 

Say what you mean, or don't say anything, but certainly, don't insult people with bullsh-t games.

[Guest]

Well, I can personally speak to that. When they say things I know are wrong and insulting I just roll my eyes, choose to ignore the sting, and move to better topics. Trying careful, reasoned, thorough discourse on message boards is a big fail. I spent ten years doing that, and now I'm wiser and know to not even try except on rare occasion.

 

Pessimistic? No. Realistic, based on experience.

 

As for a starting point, it's a choice each and every one of us makes when we read something on here. We can feel hurt or upset, but we have full control over our response or lack therof.

[VaKim]

I just think there is a good reason people all throughout history have grouped together with others of like values and beliefs. And why so often, when differences arise, there are wars and splits. My opinion here, but I think we are meant to be with "our own kind." Now, don't go reading racism or anything into that. I am talking about beliefs, values, things like that.