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If your child is planning to study overseas...


Laura Corin
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..please consider how they will handle the drinking culture.   In recent years, a nearby university has had several American students die in falls from cliffs, although the cliffs are fenced and clearly marked with danger signs.  In all cases, the students were very, very drunk.

 

I'm not saying that UK students don't get drunk - they definitely do.  They do, from the limited sample here, seem to stay safer when they drink.  It's possible that they have more experience and that that keeps them safer.  In the UK, for example, most students will have been legally drinking in public with food since they were sixteen, and legally drinking in pubs, etc. from age 18.  

 

I'm not dictating to you what exactly you do, but there is definitely a safety aspect to be considered. 

 

L

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I agree.

I grew up in the "culture" of designated driver to get drunks safely home. People get drunk at weddings and at post-exams university hostel/dorms parties (legal drinking age for my home country is 18).

 

http://www.drinkdriving.org/drink_driving_information_designated_driver.php/

 

A girlfriend attended a university in Cork, Ireland for her MBBS. She said they had drinking parties.

 

ETA:

I wasn't the designated driver since I don't drive. I was the one in charge of calling a bunch of volunteer drivers from my hostel for the drunks. Most time we head for supper at 2am when the bar close and take the 6am bus back to hostel.

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In the UK, for example, most students will have been legally drinking in public with food since they were sixteen, and legally drinking in pubs, etc. from age 18.  

 

Are parents allowed to provide alcohol to their own under-16 kids at home?

 

That's illegal in America, apparently because some idiot parents were throwing drinking parties for their teens??

 

But my DH is miffed about it. "How are we to teach them how to drink normally and responsibly, if we can't even teach them in our own home?" Indeed.

 

It's a real problem.

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..please consider how they will handle the drinking culture.   In recent years, a nearby university has had several American students die in falls from cliffs, although the cliffs are fenced and clearly marked with danger signs.  In all cases, the students were very, very drunk.

 

I'm not saying that UK students don't get drunk - they definitely do.  They do, from the limited sample here, seem to stay safer when they drink.  It's possible that they have more experience and that that keeps them safer.  In the UK, for example, most students will have been legally drinking in public with food since they were sixteen, and legally drinking in pubs, etc. from age 18.  

 

I'm not dictating to you what exactly you do, but there is definitely a safety aspect to be considered. 

 

L

 

Not even sure if this is a drinking thing per se.  Not sure exactly how to word this except to give an example.  I did not grow up used to stuff like subways or trains.  DH did and is very comfortable around them.  He knows what not to do and what to do.  KWIM?  The kids no.  So the whole time I'm a freak around them.  He doesn't get quite why.  But thing is they have no respect for them at all. So good grief add alcohol into the mix....

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Are parents allowed to provide alcohol to their own under-16 kids at home?

 

That's illegal in America, apparently because some idiot parents were throwing drinking parties for their teens??

 

But my DH is miffed about it. "How are we to teach them how to drink normally and responsibly, if we can't even teach them in our own home?" Indeed.

 

It's a real problem.

 

That's not true. 

 

http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2013/10/legal-for-kids-to-drink-alcohol-with-parents.html

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Are parents allowed to provide alcohol to their own under-16 kids at home?

 

That's illegal in America, apparently because some idiot parents were throwing drinking parties for their teens??

 

But my DH is miffed about it. "How are we to teach them how to drink normally and responsibly, if we can't even teach them in our own home?" Indeed.

 

It's a real problem.

 

It's not illegal in "America," it's illegal in certain states. My state is fine with it, lol. 

 

Laura, I don't know that overseas vs US makes much of a difference . . . they drink here as well, regardless of age, so it's not strictly lack of experience. I'm not quite sure what it is, other than our talent for extremes at work. 

 

The same tragedies happen here in the states, although less falling off of cliffs and more freezing in the snow or drowning. 

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Are parents allowed to provide alcohol to their own under-16 kids at home?

 

 

Yes.

 

Binge drinking is different from drinking with a meal even if you have a couple too many.  Some (many?) students in the US actually binge drink.  

 

I agree - Calvin binge drank before he went to university.  Whilst it's not something I encouraged him to do, I was actually glad that he did it whilst he was still living at home: he was on home turf, with old friends whom he didn't have to impress, where he knew the terrain, could walk (five miles) home if necessary, and always knew we would pay for a taxi or pick him up.

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About 15 years ago I worked at a place in here in England owned by a Canadian university. I worked the the Pub there in the evenings mostly on my own. It was a castle where students could do a semester abroad and open to Canadian and American students. The attitude towards alcohol from the American and Canadian Students was radically different. We did have a problem with American students over indulging which didn't seem to happen with the Canadian students. They were all more or less the same age, Eighteen to maybe twenty.I just came to the conclusion that it was because the American students had suddenly gained the freedom to drink and they seemed to revel in taking their new found freedom to drink to extremes whereas the law and culture surrounding alcohol in Canada was more similar to our own.

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Are parents allowed to provide alcohol to their own under-16 kids at home?

 

That's illegal in America, apparently because some idiot parents were throwing drinking parties for their teens??

 

But my DH is miffed about it. "How are we to teach them how to drink normally and responsibly, if we can't even teach them in our own home?" Indeed.

 

It's a real problem.

This isn't completely correct.

 

Parents are not permitted to provide alcohol for anyone under 21 who is not related. But there are some grey areas not completely spelled out. Parents are not going to be arrested for having their child participate in a Seder with wine and other ceremonies. Parents will be arrested for allowing their children to just sit around and get drunk.

 

I'm not sure what teaching them to drink in their own home means anyway. In ancient times (70s and 80s) parents weren't arrested for providing alcohol for drunken teen parties. there were no consequences for being away while your dc had a party either. I witness quite a few binge drinking events hosted by my brother. During that same period through our teen years, my father was a good model for how to appropriately consume alcohol (and always has been). We were permitted to drink alcohol if we requested it. I do remember him conversing with my mother about not liking there not being food available at some events that involved alcohol (them having a convo and me overhearing gave me more of an impression than getting a lecture because it was part of everyday life, not extraneous). Part of why we were encouraged to drink at home is because my grandparents had a small vineyard on their farm. I spent a good bit of my childhood tending to grapes. A few seasons my father held some grapes back from sale to wineries, do he could try to make his own wine. He also liked to try wine from the various wineries our grapes sold.

 

But my siblings still binge drank in high school. I binge drank in college a few times and then decided the natural consequences (lost study time due to hangover) were not worth the antecedent fun.

 

Dh is a little older, so he was in high school during a time of heavy drinking in the US. Alcohol was common at all social and business events day or night. Now, business events have alcohol occassionally in the evening. And the amount of alcohol per person at social events seems lower. Dh spent Friday nights playing poker with friends at his best friend's home. Lots of beer consumed. Dh best friend still drinks a lot today, in fact I belive he's a functional alcoholic.

 

I think the U.S. has an unhealthy relationship with drinking in general. And changing the drinking age has not changed that. When the drinking age was lower and legal consequences were lower people still didn't "learn how to drink". there seem to be other factors at play.

 

I also don't think you need to teach "how to consume intoxicants." I think you can teach how to be safe and responsible. Responsible like the importance of designated drivers and just looking out for eachother. Last fall my niece was returning to her dorm and entering through a side door (less used) when she came across an unconscious person. It turned out "friends" had abandoned this person there. Niece alerted an RA. The person was in very bad shape and needed hospitalization. The person is OK now, because niece did something unlike the persons "friends." When I took a college tour with dd last fall I noted posters that were PSAs informing students of the responsiblity they had to peers in the presence of drugs and alcohol. It outlined briefly all the steps for helping protect an intoxicated person from disaster. I think young people could do better with lessons responsibility to self and others.

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Are parents allowed to provide alcohol to their own under-16 kids at home?

 

That's illegal in America, apparently because some idiot parents were throwing drinking parties for their teens??

 

But my DH is miffed about it. "How are we to teach them how to drink normally and responsibly, if we can't even teach them in our own home?" Indeed.

 

It's a real problem.

 

In Canada we can provide our kids alcohol when they are underage.  I think it depends on the province.  I know in BC that there was no age (it actually might have said something about not under 5...).  We have always let our kids have little sips when they ask.  Dd was allowed to have a cooler on occasion from the time she was about fifteen or sixteen.  She's 19 now and a very responsible drinker.

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My son was in Germany for a year when he was 17.  The drinking culture there is similar to ours here in the USA in that binge drinking is common, but the difference in Germany is that there are actually bars meant for 15-18 year olds that serve diluted alcoholic drinks (like beer+lemonade or beer+coke).  He told me that kids in those age groups go to the clubs without parents and often get very drunk.  

 

Sounds positively nauseating to me...

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I saw plenty of kids (as young as 12? ) puking outside clubs in my dh's home country. They were so young. I often worried that they were simply working on building their tolerance level. My conclusion is that we depend too much on driving in the US. Most of these folks/kids simply walked/staggered home.  I can't  believe the alcoholism rate in the US is very different from other countries.  I've heard from expat friends that college students often drink to excess, no matter where they are from.  *Aussies* I'm looking at you. lol  PS No laughing: Be safe out there, people.

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..please consider how they will handle the drinking culture.   In recent years, a nearby university has had several American students die in falls from cliffs, although the cliffs are fenced and clearly marked with danger signs.  In all cases, the students were very, very drunk.

 

I'm not saying that UK students don't get drunk - they definitely do.  They do, from the limited sample here, seem to stay safer when they drink.  It's possible that they have more experience and that that keeps them safer.  In the UK, for example, most students will have been legally drinking in public with food since they were sixteen, and legally drinking in pubs, etc. from age 18.  

 

I'm not dictating to you what exactly you do, but there is definitely a safety aspect to be considered. 

 

L

 

 

Totally agree!!!

 

DD is overseas in Germany this semester.  Her experience with others is, shall we say, atrocious.  Every American in a frat or sorority lives up to every single stereotype - no one parties like a greek.  (not capitalized to not offend people who are truly from Greece!)  But it's not just the greeks.  Many Americans are "over" drinking and being stupid in public.  She has said that the Canadians do well. They drink, they over-drink, but they also know how to handle it, to not be stupid in public, to take care of one another.  Their drinking age (according to her) is 18 and they've been drinking that long, in public.  There are friends over there that she has decided to never travel with because of their drinking.

 

DD had required orientation sessions for study abroad.  And at one of them drinking was addressed. It was stressed in the session to not give anyone overseas more fodder on American drinking - to be responsible.  Maybe that was just dd's school?

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Are parents allowed to provide alcohol to their own under-16 kids at home?

 

That's illegal in America, apparently because some idiot parents were throwing drinking parties for their teens??

 

But my DH is miffed about it. "How are we to teach them how to drink normally and responsibly, if we can't even teach them in our own home?" Indeed.

 

It's a real problem.

 

It's not really an issue as the law(s) aren't completely black and white. You can provide alcohol to your minor children in your home. I think modeling works better anyway. Though, of course, that's no guarantee that kids won't binge drink later.

 

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This is something I've discussed with ds many times. We have addiction issues on both sides of his family and, imo, there is a genetic component. I've worked to model responsible drinking so it's not taboo in our household. I'm not naive enough to think he'll never try alcohol, and he hates to feel out of control, so we talk and hopefully it will never be an issue. 

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When the drinking age was lower and legal consequences were lower people still didn't "learn how to drink".

 

This.  I could legally drink before I graduated from high school (the drinking age was 18) and people still got drunk in college.  There were no legal consequences as long as you didn't drive (and even that was more a matter of bad luck than anything else).  Parties did not even bother to offer soda or water.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My son was in Germany for a year when he was 17.  The drinking culture there is similar to ours here in the USA in that binge drinking is common, but the difference in Germany is that there are actually bars meant for 15-18 year olds that serve diluted alcoholic drinks (like beer+lemonade or beer+coke).  He told me that kids in those age groups go to the clubs without parents and often get very drunk.  

 Since it's not illegal, no one gets arrested or suspended, and it doesn't make the paper.

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Is it really about the alcohol, do you think? I see American young people as less mature in general, and the drinking is a manifestation of that.

Think of the issues with credit cards being offered on university campuses, for example. There was an uproar about it among parents a few years ago. I was horrified that parents didn't think their 18-year-olds were prepared to turn down a free t-shirt for applying, or to use a card responsibly once they had it. The parents of a young man who killed himself over having racked up tens of thousands of dollars in debt blamed the school!

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Is it really about the alcohol, do you think? I see American young people as less mature in general, and the drinking is a manifestation of that.

Think of the issues with credit cards being offered on university campuses, for example. There was an uproar about it among parents a few years ago. I was horrified that parents didn't think their 18-year-olds were prepared to turn down a free t-shirt for applying, or to use a card responsibly once they had it. The parents of a young man who killed himself over having racked up tens of thousands of dollars in debt blamed the school!

 

I really don't know.  I do think that UK universities expect an awful lot of self-management from students.  A friend who used to teach at an American university and now teaches here says that students here expect a lot less hand holding.  He prefers the US system - he thinks it's too much for students to cope with.  I don't know.

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It's not really an issue as the law(s) aren't completely black and white. You can provide alcohol to your minor children in your home. I think modeling works better anyway. Though, of course, that's no guarantee that kids won't binge drink later.

 

 

If you're talking about the US, many states do explicitly prohibit providing alcohol to your minor children in your home. The laws vary but they are actually pretty black and white. You just have to know the law for your state, or any state you visit. 

 

Check the link below; I think it will go directly to Alabama, which has a "no consumption, no exceptions" law. I think 5 states have no exceptions whatsoever. 

 

All of the other states have certain exceptions that vary quite a bit. The most common is to allow consumption in a private residence with a parent/guardian present. About 10 states also allow parents to buy their minor offspring a drink at a restaurant or such, and about 6 do not criminalize consumption at a private residence even without parental consent. 

 

https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/APIS_State_Profile.html?state=AL

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I was an exchange student in the UK for a year and was surprised by the quantity of drinking among students... It was expected and encouraged and pubs were on campus and there were dumb t-shirts and bumper stickers about drunken student crossings or puking university students. I do drink moderately but the idea it would interfere with study was shocking to me.

 

Also, I'd imagine that the American students who travel overseas are probably more adventurous than those who stay at home and certainly have a lot less oversight from family. Perhaps that's why they appear more drunkenly stupid? I don't know...

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Laura, I don't know that overseas vs US makes much of a difference . . . they drink here as well, regardless of age, so it's not strictly lack of experience. I'm not quite sure what it is, other than our talent for extremes at work. 

 

The same tragedies happen here in the states, although less falling off of cliffs and more freezing in the snow or drowning. 

 

Yep, I attended a large state university known for its fraternity/sorority life and for its party culture. Even after I graduated, I lived in the same city as the campus for a few years. It seemed like every year a few students would be injured or killed in the first few weeks of the academic year when they got drunk at a party and fell off something. 

 

One I remember in particular was a freshman who died after climbing up the roof of a fraternity house to play Frisbee and fell off the building.

 

This was also the city in which prospective tenants were assured that all or most of the interior doors in a rental house had been replaced, because apparently it was simply accepted that students got drunk and kicked in doors.

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