WTMA Expository Writing II feedback please

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I don't think that you are envisioning this correctly. 

 

My 10th grader is currently taking Rhetoric I with Mr. Hummel.  The kids do share their work in the online environment and comment on their classmates' writings.  However, Mr. Hummel is actively involved in the critiques, and my son has gotten a lot out of the weekly discussions.  My son incorporates the feedback/suggestions he receives when working on the next assignment.

 

This is exactly how I am envisioning it.  :)  The students and instructor critique the writing in class,  then move on to the next assignment. No written feedback from the instructor, no revisions, and thus no feedback on the revisions at all - not even in class.

 

I was rather hoping for a teacher lecturing and facilitating discussions on great works -  not other students' writing. Personally I would rather my daughter not spend precious time reading and discussing other students' writing. It's just not our goal for a writing class. I would instead hope to see the students being exposed to and discussing various techniques, noticing them in other works, and considering how to apply them to their own writing.

 

I was also hoping for detailed written personal feedback.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Imo, I would not sign a middle schooler up for the Rhetoric sequence as I think a student will get much more out of the class when he is more mature.

 

Sorry for muddling things. I'm discussing Rhetoric for a 9th grader. The issue is not maturity. Hmmm.... well maybe it is. The maturity level will most likely not be the same across the board, and this may lessen or negate the benefits some students receive from the workshop model.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Hmmm...I wonder how many degrees we have among us? (Just a rhetorical question! No need to post your educational achievements!) I was just thinking we could get our kids together on Skype and take turns facilitating writing discussions! It would save on tuition!  (I'm totally joking! ;) )

[RootAnn]

Y'all got me thinking. I wonder if doing the Delayed Option would be a better bet if I can talk the teacher into giving written feedback on a regular basis? Hmmm.

 

WMA - My degree isn't known for producing great writers or speakers:  engineering.  :laugh: I hope you are able to find a class on what you are looking for -- perhaps a Great Conversation w/a writing component or a Lit Class w/a separate-but-integrated writing component? (It looks like there are a couple of drafts before the final essays are turned in.)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

WMA - My degree isn't known for producing great writers or speakers:  engineering.  :laugh: I hope you are able to find a class on what you are looking for -- perhaps a Great Conversation w/a writing component or a Lit Class w/a separate-but-integrated writing component? (It looks like there are a couple of drafts before the final essays are turned in.)

 

Nice try, but having an engineering degree is not considered an acceptable excuse for skipping your turn facilitating the class... :glare:  :toetap05:  :lol: 

 

Thanks for the link!

[MorningGlory]

Yes, I wondered about that too. I noticed that the teacher for Exp II will be teaching a total of 11 sections this fall, including writing, rhetoric and history. The teacher for Exp I has the same total number of sections, I believe, for various courses. (According to the "Printable Master Schedule Worksheet" at (edit) near the top of the Courses page. http://www.wtmacademy.com/courses/)  That just seems like a big workload for those instructors, so perhaps that makes it unrealistic for them to provide written feedback on every weekly assignment . . . hence the workshop model?? IDK.

 

 

This concerned me most of all. I will grant that all 11 sections may not make, and if they do, Ms. Brian will probably not have 15 students in each of them. But the perception of "over scheduled" is still there. Ms. Brian's schedule coupled with the workshop model (which would be pure torture for my son) made me quickly realize that Exp. Writing II was not a good fit for us after all.

 

I requested and promptly received my pre-registration fee back last week. Mr. Otto is very professional and kind. Which makes me even sadder that the class will not work for us...I am SO disappointed. :-(

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Have you found another class for your son? I'm wondering if there are other options I've missed.

 

I'm feeling disappointed as well.

[crazyforlatin]

If enough of us are disappointed, is there any chance for the teacher to drop the workshop method? Hello WTMA?

 

I am truly sad about this because it's one of the classes I was looking forward to for DD (other than Jetta's class). How is it possible for students to critique one another when they are still learning the craft themselves?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

It might be even better if an additional teacher and section were added. (Probably too late for the upcoming year.) If a teacher feels strongly about a method of teaching, requesting they alter it might not produce a positive change. Better to find a teacher that believes and excels in the teaching model you're hoping to find.

 

Now, if only I knew where to find that teacher...

[melmichigan]

It might be even better if an additional teacher and section were added. (Probably too late for the upcoming year.) If a teacher feels strongly about a method of teaching, requesting they alter it might not produce a positive change. Better to find a teacher that believes and excels in the teaching model you're hoping to find.

 

Now, if only I knew where to find that teacher...

:iagree: This model doesn't work for my DC, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work well for other students (such as those mentioned up thread).

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Interesting. It looks like Mr. Hummel is also teaching a geometry class.

[melmichigan]

I spoke with the WTMA Academy and they should be weighing in on the conversation soon.   :)

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

It's unfortunate this has come to the attention of some of us right at the cut-off of preregistration. Better than after class starts, though!

 

Looking forward to hearing the Academy's thoughts...

[chiguirre]

If enough of us are disappointed, is there any chance for the teacher to drop the workshop method? Hello WTMA?

 

I am truly sad about this because it's one of the classes I was looking forward to for DD (other than Jetta's class). How is it possible for students to critique one another when they are still learning the craft themselves?

 

I sincerely hope they keep the workshop model for at least some sections of ExpWriting2. I really want to change things up for T next year. This year in EW1 with Ms. Meyers was excellent, but IMHO students need to have different writing instructors and different teaching styles in order to become well rounded writers with their own individual voice. Learning how to give and receive constructive criticism is a vital life skill and I'd rather T learn it in a well moderated, online writing class. I know that not every class will work for every student but there is a market for the workshop model and I don't want TWTM Academy to feel pressured to change their class structure, at least not for all of the sections.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I also think it would be helpful to have video clips of both types of classes available. Better yet, a short clip of each instructor.

[crazyforlatin]

DD is fine with peer review, apparently. I asked whether she could take criticism from classmates and still maintain a positive attitude about it. I'm just not sure how kids can help kids. But, I really need to outsource writing and I truly believe in SWB's method, so I'm still going ahead with the class.

 

Just as an example of my uncertainty with peer review. DD's friend is in PS. Everyday the kids write in school. Everyday the kids learn grammar. Everyday the kids write at home. I'm not saying that this particular kid's writing is reflective of the teacher's method or even a sample of the average student in PS. But this particular child cannot possibly evaluate another's writing. This child would actually be giving wrong and misleading feedback based on the work I have seen. In this particular case, DD can help her friend because there is such a wide gulf of writing ability between them.

 

Since there is a teacher present during peer review, I'm sure the teacher will participate and step in should there be misleading advice. I do like the fact that there is interaction with peers. And, DD may actually be the worse writer in class, so she will actually learn something from other kids, LOL.

[WTMA Headmaster]

I sincerely hope they keep the workshop model for at least some sections of ExpWriting2. I really want to change things up for T next year. This year in EW1 with Ms. Meyers was excellent, but IMHO students need to have different writing instructors and different teaching styles in order to become well rounded writers with their own individual voice. Learning how to give and receive constructive criticism is a vital life skill and I'd rather T learn it in a well moderated, online writing class. I know that not every class will work for every student but there is a market for the workshop model and I don't want TWTM Academy to feel pressured to change their class structure, at least not for all of the sections.

To all,

 

Many parents have commented positively on each of our instructors, and we're  glad the Academy has been a help to your families!

 

We strive to have a variety of instructors in our writing classes each year. We appreciate the interest in different teaching styles, and are excited to announce that we will be updating our schedules today for our expository and rhetoric writing courses, which will reflect the following: 

 

Kayla Meyers will now be teaching 1-2 sections for each of our Expository Prep, Expository 1, and Expository 2 courses. 

 

Chloe' Richardson is now teaching an additional section for our Rhetoric 1 class.

 

We have additional instructors available, which should provide even more options for students as we continue to add sections as needed

 

We appreciate the support of our families, so please email or call us if you have any questions!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Thanks for listening in and addressing our concerns.

 

When will the new sections be added? (ETA: They have now been added. :) )

 

Thanks!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I found a copy of Chloé Richardson's syllabus from this year. It looks like the books are the same, which is what I was hoping.

[melmichigan]

The schedules are posted.

[Beach Mom]

I have a student who is about to complete WWS2 with WTMA.  This has been a wonderful experience for my son.  We completed WWS1 independently last year.  I was skeptical of the workshop model, and to be honest my son was a little intimidated by the peer feedback at the beginning.  However, Mrs. Brian handled the class very well and was careful to ensure balanced feedback was provided.  She also provided independent written feedback on his assignments throughout the course.  His writing has improved, the class has helped him learn to partition assignments and manage deadlines, and he has learned to both provide and accept verbal feedback.  I can also attest that she was extremely responsive and helpful when I had any questions or concerns.

 

Everyone's experience will be different but ours was excellent and I have registered my other son for WTMA writing for the fall.  We are in the midst of a high school decision for my older son.  If he does not go to private high school we will register him for another WTMA writing class without hesitation.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Beach Mom,

My son has done half of the book WWS 2 at home and is very challenged with the poems. Does the class use the book exclusively? I wonder if he will be bored if I sign him up for WWS 2 since he has done half of it. I have not been good at providing feedback and such. I definitely would like to outsource writing. Right now I let him do Lively Art of Writing to finish the rest of the school year. He did do WWS 1 very well at home.

[Beach Mom]

I would think your son could be bored.  Our experience has been that there is an occasional assignment from outside the book but the majority of the work and discussion come directly from the book.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Thanks for your response. I wonder what other online classes should I consider for him.

[RootAnn]

Jade - Had you thought of the Rhetoric class? It says:

 

 

Prerequisite: At least two years completed study in Expository Writing, using Writing With Skill, the Institute for Excellence in Writing, Classical Composition, or a comparable program

 

By the end of this school year,  he will have done WWS 1, 1/2 of WWS 2, and some of the Lively Art of Writing. From what I've seen of the reviews, there is less homework than  in the Intro to Rhetoric class that goes through WWS1-3 in one year. 

[JadeOrchidSong]

RootAnn,

You are right! In fact, he did WWS1, IEW Writing Intensive B, 1/2 of WWS 2, and is now doing Lesson 4 of Lively Art of Writing. I will think about rhetoric for him. Thanks!

[Halcyon]

Hi! I am looking at WTMA for writing for my son. He has done WWS1, part of WWS2 (maybe a couple months worth) and then a few months of Attuneup. He is a middle-of-the-road writer, but a hard worker. I am considering Expository Writing 2, but wonder if that would be the right fit for him. Thoughts? 

 

And how do I determine from the syllabus whether a teacher will be using the workshop model?

[Hot Lava Mama]

Does it bother anyone else that other students will be doing the critiquing? Quite honestly, I've seen this model go very badly in the classroom as a teacher and it is one of the aspects about PS that I go out of my way to avoid in homeschooling. Not because I don't value peer interaction (which I do), but because all too often it just ends up being the blind leading the blind and the other students, who are still learning to write properly themselves, offer critiques which are completely unhelpful at best and incorrect at worst. I doubt that this is the type of writing class I would be looking for as a homeschool parent, and that disappoints me.

 

FWIW, My dd is in the Creative Writing class this year.  They are doing the workshop posts in that class.  It sounds like it is a bit different in that the student posts the creative writing assignment on BB, and then students have to provide a written comment on the writing (not orally).  Each student must provide 5 comments (meaning comment on 5 students writing) that include both a positive and constructive criticism for the piece.  I have mixed feelings about this part.  I do like that I can see what level of writing her peers are doing and compare it to where she is at.  I really dislike that students who can't spell, can't punctuate, and can't capitalize are making comments on my daughter's writing.  I feel like it is a bit of "lazy teaching" in that I paid for a professional teacher to help improve her writing, not other 7th graders.  Given that, it has helped make her feel more confident in her writing (given that she doesn't have the extensive spelling errors and grammatical errors as the other students).  My preference, however, would not be this model.  I would prefer to have the comments from only the teacher.  I would not mind her reading the work aloud in class, but I do not like the part where the students will then evaluate her writing orally.

 

Even with my reservations, she is signed up for the EW1 class next year, in spite of the fact that they have to do the critique model.

 

Oh, my ds was in the Rhetoric 1 class and they do NOT do that at that level.

 

Hot Lava Mama

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I think it might depend on which instructor is teaching Rhetoric 1.

[Halcyon]

So for Expository 2, or Rhetoric 1, how do we determine which teacher is using which approach?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Search the threads or email instructors to be sure. It's my understanding Thomas Hummel and Kathleen Brian use the workshop model. Chloe Richardson does not.

[Hot Lava Mama]

Search the threads or email instructors to be sure. It's my understanding Thomas Hummel and Kathleen Brian use the workshop model. Chloe Richardson does not.

 

Could be.  Ds had Ms. Richardson and he did not do the workshop posts.

Hot Lava Mama

[Halcyon]

My apologies if this has been answered already, but what is the workload for Expository Writing 2? My son is a slow-ish writer, if that matters. 

[VANURSEPRAC]

Thanks Jetta.  My twins took Expository I this year, but it is a different teacher is listed for Expository Writing II.  

 

 

I am so glad you started this thread. I want to register my 12 y/o daughter in WWS I in the. She is a public school.  I want to do this "after school" with the delayed class.

 

What did you think?

 

she is currently in 6th grade. I am really not sure where to place her but I think WWSI will be around right.  How many hours a day, per week, # of days a week did your kiddos work on WWS I?

 

Would you recommend it.

 

Did your kiddos learn a lot?

 

Thank You!

[VANURSEPRAC]

What is the "work shop" model?

 

[TarynB]

FWIW, My dd is in the Creative Writing class this year.  They are doing the workshop posts in that class.  It sounds like it is a bit different in that the student posts the creative writing assignment on BB, and then students have to provide a written comment on the writing (not orally).  Each student must provide 5 comments (meaning comment on 5 students writing) that include both a positive and constructive criticism for the piece.  I have mixed feelings about this part.  I do like that I can see what level of writing her peers are doing and compare it to where she is at.  I really dislike that students who can't spell, can't punctuate, and can't capitalize are making comments on my daughter's writing.  I feel like it is a bit of "lazy teaching" in that I paid for a professional teacher to help improve her writing, not other 7th graders.  Given that, it has helped make her feel more confident in her writing (given that she doesn't have the extensive spelling errors and grammatical errors as the other students).  My preference, however, would not be this model.  I would prefer to have the comments from only the teacher.  I would not mind her reading the work aloud in class, but I do not like the part where the students will then evaluate her writing orally.

 

Even with my reservations, she is signed up for the EW1 class next year, in spite of the fact that they have to do the critique model.

 

Oh, my ds was in the Rhetoric 1 class and they do NOT do that at that level.

 

Hot Lava Mama

 

Thank you SO much sharing this. This would be a huge concern for me as well.

[TarynB]

Search the threads or email instructors to be sure. It's my understanding Thomas Hummel and Kathleen Brian use the workshop model. Chloe Richardson does not.

 

Thank you for this.

 

I wish the info on the WTMA website would make it very clear which format (workshop or traditional) each section/instructor will be using. One really shouldn't have to search threads here (and what's to say an instructor won't change methods over time) and/or contact each instructor separately. It's probably a hassle for the instructors too if they're getting a bunch of inquiries. This type of info is critical and should be plainly available for anyone who might be considering signing up. Just my humble opinion.   :coolgleamA: 

 

Studying the posted syllabus and looking for phrases like "workshop participation" is the first step, in a multi-step process (reading syllabi, searching threads, emailing), towards trying to ascertain what format the class will use. And obviously that doesn't work if the syllabus for a particular instructor isn't posted.

[RootAnn]

Van - Go back to the first page of this thread & read all the way through. The discussion of "workshop model" came up & you will see it described & discussed on the first page of the thread. My understanding is that Ms. Meyers does not use the workshop model for Expository Writing 1, either. She's the one who is in charge of the 'delayed option' for that class.

 

Halcyon - I haven't seen any info on the workload for WWS2 (Expository Writing 2) in any threads. 

 

I did register my dd#1 for Intro to Rhetoric (the catchup class, not Rhetoric 1), but ultimately decided not to register my dd#2 for Exp Writing 1. If I would have signed her up, it would have been with Ms. Meyer's section. (Unfortunately, it would have been back-to-back with her older sister's class, which would NOT have worked with our sibling interactions & computer set up.)

[RootAnn]

TarynB - Some of us have saved syllabuses from last (this) year. (So, ask if you want to see one with a different teacher. I saved almost all of them.) I'm assuming you will get a new syllabus if your instructor is different than the one who posted it. I know that there are (date) errors on the one posted for Intro to Rhetoric & the teacher is aware of them. I don't think they are the final syllabus for the class in all cases. I agree it would be nice if there was a little more clarity. [i think WTM Academy is really good about helping you if you find out you need to change sections/teachers because you end up with a different model/teaching style than will fit your kid. The problem is that other sections might not fit your schedule. But, they might not fit your schedule now, either....]

[TarynB]

RootAnn, thank you. I'll PM you if that's OK.

 

To clarify, about the 2015-16 syllabi, I just meant that we can tell (hopefully) what format an instructor will use by studying the posted syllabus, but if there isn't a syllabus posted for a particular instructor, then we have to email that instructor and ask. If the course format was clearly stated right on the course page, those extra steps would be unnecessary. (In other words, I'm not even to the point of worrying about dates and specific assignments yet . . . I'm still trying to figure out what format each section will use.)

[VANURSEPRAC]

Not Melissa, but Exp Writing 1 this year had written feedback on the assignments. The teacher, Ms. Meyers, does make general comments that apply to everyone, but their aren't any individual critiques during class time.

 

T is going to do EW2. I explained the format and she said it was okay. She's not shy at all, though, so ymmv.

 

 

I am registering DD 12 for WWS 1 Delayed  class tonight and will be watching for your review of EW2.

[VANURSEPRAC]

 D12 is registered for the WWS I Delayed course and I see this is with Kayla.

 

If this course works out well, then I would like D12 to take WWS II Delayed class the following year while she is in 8th grade public school. I would assume the delayed

 

courses would not be workshop style. I don't see how that would work.