Jump to content

Menu

CC: Describe a "Martha" personality and I think even harder, a "Mary" one


momee
 Share

Recommended Posts

We're covering Martha and Mary at our women's retreat and I'm looking for general descriptors for each...

 

 

I'd have to say, upon beginning to research it fully,

most women think of a Martha as a busybody, one who is discontent with her own lot and continuously active trying to achieve recognition

 

I think of a Mary as having a quiet spirit, exhibiting meekness and gentleness to everyone, while being a worshipper at all times.

 

OOOOh how I want to be a Mary, lol.

 

edited to correct spelling, I should edit more to correct the grammar...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But we don't know for sure any of that. I'd be very careful to say that Martha was a busybody and discontent and trying to achieve recognition when you don't know that at all. That's just imagination. That's not scripture. Martha was doing exactly as her culture expected of her. She may have been very confused as to why what she was doing was suddenly "wrong" when working and making food for the men was her *job*. That's what women were for back then.

 

What makes us think that Mary had a quiet spirit and was meek and gentle? She did leave her sister to do all the work. That didn't seem very nice to me. We could spin it that she was selfish and bucking the system and didn't care who it hurt and was being rebellious.

 

I wouldn't try to assign motives or personality traits other than what is already in the scriptures. You can get into error doing that. And I wouldn't preach it to other people if I was just making it up or making suppositions.

  • Like 35
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Garga for all that.  I wholeheartedly agree.  I should clarify, I am looking for those presuppositions so we can talk about what is given through scripture and what is heresay throughout female culture.

 

I intend to take each verse and define and support whatever I say through scripture, I come from a verse by verse teaching church and as a primary representative speaking about the topic, take this very thing seriously.

 

I should have said I'm hoping to hear those judgements we make against them both so I can compare that to the words and "judgement" of Christ regarding the situation.  I'd love to hear ideas that we have in our heads of who each "was".  (especially homeschool moms who are natually do-ers anyway.

 

I so appreciate your devotion to truth.  I sincerely am going to try my best to do just that~

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think of Martha as a busybody at all, nor have I ever thought of her as trying to achieve recognition, or being dissatisfied with her lot.  Both Mary and Martha were worshipers and Jesus was close to both. John 11 is a good place to see that part of Martha. In fact, in that story, the two sisters seem very similar. To extrapolate a whole lot about Martha from the other story is possibly putting too much emphasis on the personal part of it and on her behavior on one occasion, especially  without the context of cultural norms of the time. Craig Keener's book on the background of the New Testament has good information that will put some of this in context.

 

Martha was assuming the traditional woman's role in that culture. It would have been expected for Mary to be helping her. Instead, Mary took a very non-traditional role. (Women weren't supposed to be theologically educated yet she was sitting at the rabbi's feet, listening, absorbing all he said. ) Mary was also attempting to serve Christ in the way she understood--through feeding him and his followers. (So dinner for 12 disciples, Jesus, Mary, possibly her brother and others). That's a lot of work. I think many of us would be irked that our natural helper wasn't helping and they didn't even have running water in the kitchen, microwaves, or a grocery store down the street to buy premade bread, etc. The scripture says she was distracted by the many preparations that had to be made.   Jesus said that she was anxious/worried and bothered about many things, when only one thing was necessary.

 

I think many of us could be tempted to be frazzled in that situation like Martha was. I don't think it's necessarily indicative of personality, but of recognizing when we're in a situation where we are getting anxious/irritable and choosing the alternative.  I think the story is also indicative of the tension created when new roles for women were allowed. Martha was sticking to her traditional role; Jesus told her Mary had chosen the one necessary thing.

 

ETA: I was writing while you posted your second comment, OP. I guess I'm confused. I have never heard of anyone say anything about Martha along the lines of kinds of "judgments" you listed . I have heard the Martha was too busy "doing" instead of "being" and things along that line, which, as I said above, I think is simplistic, though one could infer that from the actual scripture.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please forgive the Friends reference here, I've been on a binge.  But I think that Martha would be a Monica who is very type A, organized, focused and driven.  All very good qualities.  And I think Mary would be a Phoebe, emotional, empathetic, people-person, full of child-like wonder.  Again, all good qualities.  

 

When Jesus said that Mary had chosen the better thing, He wasn't saying that Martha's work was unappreciated, worthless or sinful.  I think it was simply a lesson that sometimes we need to chill out and let the minutiae go and focus on the immediate present.  

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must say though, in my defense, lol...Martha could be a "busybody" according to this definition by urban dictionary, lol.

"The kind of person you just want to punch in the mouth for being so xx annoying. They have no life and way too much time on their hands. They frequently use their excessive amount of time to annoy and monitor others, taddletale for small meaningless xxx, butt into everybody's business except their own, and spy on people as if they think they are a cop or an important person or something. 

...

Busy bodies are usually self-righteous hypocrites that are quick to point out the faults in others but get defensive when you point out theirs."

This does fit her...don't you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I don't think it's necessarily indicative of personality, but of recognizing when we're in a situation where we are getting anxious/irritable and choosing the alternative."

 

Sooo the point of what I'm going to talk about... thank you!

I actually read the term used for Martha's getting up was one of getting up to assert herself of something like that, I think Martha gets into trouble when she starts attacking Jesus :) in that very situation, tell her to help me and Lord don't you care aren't statements that reflect a great heart attitude.

 

Normal to all of us and proven attitudes of my own heart, but ones I'd like to overcome~

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw this from an article put out by the Eastern Orthodox church. It speaks along the lines of what was said above about Martha not being the "bad" one and Mary the "good" one -- they both had good virtues and they both struggled with issues, too.  Just like we all do.

 

Another example from the New Testament is in order. The story of Mary and Martha in the Gospel According to St. Luke demonstrates to us several important virtues to acquire (Luke 10:38Ă¢â‚¬â€œ42). First of all, Mary was eager to learn from the Master, so she sat at His feet in humility, while Martha served Him with love. She complained a little about her sister, but nevertheless, she served Him well with love. The virtue of knowledge through learning, for which Mary thirsted, strengthens the virtue of faith. Since the more one learns, the more one realizes that faith is needed to accept that which is not understandable, and hence unknowable, like the substantial constitution of the Holy Trinity. At the same time, the virtue of humility, which again Mary exhibited by sitting at the feet of someone, is the beginning of the virtue of wisdom, which one must have on the narrow road of salvation. On the one hand, faith and wisdom are two of the most important virtues that advance someone on the narrow road of deification. On the other hand, the virtue of love is evident in MarthaĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s behavior as she served Him in her house. Despite the fact that she complained about her sisterĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s lack of service, she had obediently served her Master. A Church father remarked that the beginning of love is obedience. If someone is not obedient to anyone, he or she does not love anyone.

 

The prototype of faith, love, service, humility, and knowledge, among other virtues, is the Virgin Mary herself. She managed to combine the virtues that both Mary and Martha had, especially faith, love and service. She served Christ, her Son, and cared for His needs as would any good mother. She learned from Him every opportunity she had, despite the fact that she did not understand what He said in every instance

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Off on a tangent, but I'm sure you'll get the humor. The local RC parish is St. Martha's. I suspect someone in the archdiocese was making a snarky comment about the character of my town when they chose the name. OTOH, the parish like the person works very hard to raise money for causes that benefit poorer parts of the archdiocese rather than sit around and contemplate.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's something I wrote recently when I was pondering Mary and Martha: 

 

"I think we often assume that Martha is the type-A goal-oriented, efficient list checker and that Mary is the laid back, go-with-the-flow dreamer.  But nothing in the account tells us about their personalities. Only their actions. (Except that Martha can be bossy!) 

 

It could be that Mary, a list-checker, decided the most important thing on her list was to sit at JesusĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ feet and that Martha, a people pleaser, was caught up in dinner prep feeling sorry for herself.  I think we can cross off the list that Jesus favors a certain personality. WeĂ¢â‚¬â„¢re just not told that. (Probably for good reason)

Plus, regardless of personality, weĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ve all been Martha at some point, stressed by the dayĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s demands.

Luke says that Martha was distracted by dinner prep. The word Ă¢â‚¬Å“distractedĂ¢â‚¬ actually means Ă¢â‚¬Å“drawn away.Ă¢â‚¬ So while Mary was drawn to Jesus, Martha was drawn away."

Lisa

Here's the rest of the article if you're interested. I wrote it in context of the stress of holiday prep, but really it can apply anytime. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is my answer, more or less summarized from N.T. Wright's book Luke for Everyone:

 

In this culture, men and women didn't mix company in homes. The men were in the "living room" and the women were in the kitchen. So the fact that Mary was in the men's space had Martha in a tizzy...it was a huge cultural no-no.

Also, the "sitting at Jesus' feet"-learning from the rabbi was something only men did. Jesus affirmed Mary (it's ok for women to learn too).

 

It's a bit of a different interpretation than what we're used to, but I think it's an interesting one that also makes sense.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Martha was an extrovert who liked people in her home. She's a sensor not an intuitive because she looks at the external visible things as important not the conceptual things Christ is talking about. I'm not sure if she's a thinker or a feeler by preference. She is a judger as she saw Mary's behaviour as wrong without perceiving how else it could be seen. So I have her as an ES?J.

 

Mary may also have been an introvert as she was the one who stayed home when Lazarus died while Martha went to meet Jesus. Also Martha is the one that opens her home. She is an intuitive as she likes listening to Christ talk instead of taking care of practical details. She may be a feeler or thinker, a judger or perceiver I'm not sure.

 

That's just an interpretation as are most things that go beyond the actual story.

 

I agree that it's mostly a love/faith/grace versus good deeds and works story. That is the important take away from it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must say though, in my defense, lol...Martha could be a "busybody" according to this definition by urban dictionary, lol.

"The kind of person you just want to punch in the mouth for being so xx annoying. They have no life and way too much time on their hands. They frequently use their excessive amount of time to annoy and monitor others, taddletale for small meaningless xxx, butt into everybody's business except their own, and spy on people as if they think they are a cop or an important person or something.

...

Busy bodies are usually self-righteous hypocrites that are quick to point out the faults in others but get defensive when you point out theirs."

This does fit her...don't you think?

 

But I don't see her that way at all. I wouldn't be comfortable if someone described her that way at a talk. I don't think it's true.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, thanks Garga.  I'm going to keep looking at it all.

Maybe it  is just a difference of the way I'm communicating, which doesn't seem to be very clearly.  I was just saying her being carried away by all the distractions is a key focus but I think it is also important to note her attention - if at least for a few moments and not a general attitude she exhibits throughout life- was on Martha and how she was sitting and NOT helping.  As given by her telling the Lord to help her.

Her comment "do you not care" is also indicative, in my opinion, of how she felt about what was going on between Mary and Jesus. 

 

Had her desire been purely to serve, what was happening in the other room wouldn't matter to her.

I'm thinking the same thing about the time Jesus says to Peter in John 21.

http://utmost.org/what-is-that-to-you/

 

Definitely not disagreeing with you, I'm very interested in hearing other opinions.

 

My reason for the OP was to see what women, who may OR MAY NOT know this story, think of Martha and Mary both.

I so appreciate everyone's response.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would it be possible to have the talk be about Jesus and how he is shown to have handled two different people, rather than psychoanalyzing two women based on assumptions the story doesn't support?  We could speculate about "times I'm drawn away and what makes me draw close" rather than guess about Martha and maligning her character to fit our worst behaviors (or those of "women we know but won't name"). 

 

To be honest, Jesus sort of makes me uncomfortable in this story, perhaps because I'm reading into it based on a lifetime of assumptions. 

 

It should be mentioned that Martha seemed more faith-inclined than Mary did in the crisis when Lazarus died.  She believed right away, if I remember correctly. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thoughts: the Lord did not condemn Martha, and depending on tone his words to her could have been praise not rebuke. He also did not condemn Mary, and indicated that Martha should neither condemn nor compel her.

 

Perhaps the primary lesson to be learned is not that we should be like Mary or like Martha, but that we should not judge and try to change one another but should value different strengths and approaches to life.

 

There is more than one way to be a disciple.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do like the idea of how you said you wanted to get ideas of what people thought of Martha and then compare them to what the scriptures say. I do think you'll get a lot (LOT) of different opinions of what people think of Martha--some will vilify her, some will give her the benefit of the doubt, and some will fall somewhere in between. (And Mary, too.)

 

I think it's hard to tease out exactly who they were and what their personalities were like. There's not a lot to go on. Were they always this way or were these particular situations different from the norm? Was Mary always shirking her work or usually very industrious? Was Martha always flying into a tizzy when she didn't have help or was this the first time they had to feed all these people all at once?

 

Lest it sound like I'm picking on you, I do like the idea of throwing out all those ideas about what we think the two women were like and then looking at how Jesus thought about them.

 

It's a tricky tale and likely to offend many women if it's not handled carefully. It's easy to make it black and white when, as with everything in life, there is a lot of grey.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so amazed at all the different responses.  I'm swaying from wishing I hadn't posted to being very very glad I did.

 

Martha - I loved your blog post.  We would be good friends, lol.  

I am drawing out the anxiety, the troubled and worried words are key for me.  Her being distracted outwardly about the serving meant she was distracted in her heart in the presence of the Lord.  Bitterness and anxiety are never helpful when we're seeking intimacy.

 

elroisees (what a beautiful name)...I agree but I must ask you...tell me more :)))))))))))))

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I do like the idea of how you said you wanted to get ideas of what people thought of Martha and then compare them to what the scriptures say. I do think you'll get a lot (LOT) of different opinions of what people think of Martha--some will vilify her, some will give her the benefit of the doubt, and some will fall somewhere in between. (And Mary, too.)"

 

I am so glad you understand my intention.  Sorry for the confusion. There is so much I am hitting on as I'm planning to speak.  

The judgement of her sister, the bitterness in her heart and most importantly the fact that Jesus does NOT condemn her, He graceFULLy and carefully (and spot on I think as He hits right at the key issue) redirects her.

 

Thanks, Garga.  I am really finding this all beneficial and at first was concerned I had greatly offended :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so amazed at all the different responses. I'm swaying from wishing I hadn't posted to being very very glad I did.

 

 

I feel that way every time I post and it goes triple for every time I start a thread. Will this be the day I write something so amazingly stupid that the entire hive recoils and shakes their heads at me?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And watch out starting a thread about your DH or MIL. People see "DH" and "MIL" through their own filters and some of those filters are very dark. I asked a question about my sweet MIL once (she was doing something annoying,but is overall a sweet woman) and by the time the thread was done you'd have thought she was Cruella deVil. I was told never to let my children set eyes on her again. Sometimes things don't come across properly and balanced online. :)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 "38 Â¶Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.


 39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at JesusĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ feet, and heard his word.


 40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.


 41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:


 42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."  Luke 10


 


I've always thought of this story as choosing the better part.  There are many things in our life that are good and deserve our attention, but *the most important thing* in life is following Christ and keeping Him at the top of our priorities, keeping Him in our hearts, continually feasting on the Word, always having His example in our thoughts guiding our actions, having an eye single to His glory, and so forth.


  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Garga, now I am a bit less anxious than I was going to bed last night.

 

My dh shakes his head at why I'm even on here.  He thinks women can be downright scary :)

I love it though.  I think reading and seeing how women think is fascinating.

 

And I'm with you on the villifying a MIL on here.  Funny how one post can disintegrate, lol.  I've had that happen too.  

 

Were you around when posts took forever to show up and people would be soo far down their own rabbit hole by the time the page flipped - it wasn't even applicable anymore?  

I must say though, folks seemed to be a lot less quick to take offense back then.

 

So much dissension on the boards lately :(

So glad we've been able to discuss the misunderstanding in a mature and unemotional way.  Thank you for sticking to your point :) and for understanding mine.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I've completely landed on the works vs. grace thing as much as I could have.

I'm more feeling like I am going to focus on the intent of Mary's heart (to sit at His feet in spite of what was happening around her) and Martha's heart being bitter and accusatory toward the Lord that He does not care.

 

Sooooo me in the midst of getting ready to leave the house with 3 other females.  We get loud, bitter and fussy.  All because each of us are pressed tight and what's in the heart is coming out in an ugly way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 JohnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s disciples and the Pharisees were fasting; and they *came and *said to Him, Ă¢â‚¬Å“Why do JohnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?Ă¢â‚¬Â 19 And Jesus said to them,Â Ă¢â‚¬Å“While the bridegroom is with them, the attendants of the bridegroom cannot fast, can they? So long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.20 But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in that day. Matthew 2

 

I always make a connection with this passage when reading the Mary/Martha one. While Jesus was among them, the thing to do was focus on Him. Later, they would get back to "normal" life. But I also agree with those who have said that our relationship with Christ is of utmost importance, above everything else we do. Which doesn't mean we should not do those things. Just that they are less important.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I've completely landed on the works vs. grace thing as much as I could have.

I'm more feeling like I am going to focus on the intent of Mary's heart (to sit at His feet in spite of what was happening around her) and Martha's heart being bitter and accusatory toward the Lord that He does not care.

 

Sooooo me in the midst of getting ready to leave the house with 3 other females. We get loud, bitter and fussy. All because each of us are pressed tight and what's in the heart is coming out in an ugly way.

Please don't. It is lessons with such a "Do more, try harder" focus that make me avoid women's Bible studies.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean to speak more on the disdain Martha felt in her heart for Mary's conviction...and how that comes from lack of self care, lack of her own intimacy with Jesus, OR simply...being overwhelmed, drawn about in different directions and disquieted in her own mind, as Jesus says she is.  Also how all that is a good thing to seek out in ourselves and let the Lord correct.

 

So often we want to adore Him - but it can't be forced.  HOWEVER it can be something we become aware of and seek to grow in.  In seeking to grow in that, we can move toward actions that help - sitting at His feet being a priority - as well as actions we can move away from - looking at others, aiming for perfection, doing more, works vs. grace based thinking, etc.

 

I wouldn't dare add one more thing on a heavily burdened and full plate of any of the gals.  Drawing out they why's behind our behavior is part of the process of growth though, don't you think?

It's not like I shouldn't discuss it, right?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you keep the balance on Jesus and His grace, rather than our personalities or activities, you will do well. Many things are a matter of emphasis. Keep the main focus on the gospel and subordinate points will fall into the proper order.

 

I have no particular insight into this passage. Just the basic principle that the Gospels are about Jesus. He is the star of the show and the other people are supporting actors. So make the conclusion about Him rather than them.

 

This may be a rabbit trail but it may provide a helpful perspective. It is my basic gripe about women's studies. I don't think there are particular women's Bible passages or men's Bible passages. The whole Bible is for the whole Church. For example, we look at this passage which features two women and we think, this must say something to us *as women*. And like any good story, there is conflict, so we have a positive example and a negative example. The conclusion is obvious, be like the the positve example and avoid the negative example. See? Even Jesus agrees with that.

But here is the rub. Personally, I am much more a "Mary" than a "Martha". I would much rather sit on my butt and listen to a discussion of ideas than be in the kitchen fixing the cookie trays. So I'm golden, right? The problem is, I know my own heart. Yes, I am interested in "spiritual things", but I am also lazy and perfectly willing to leave all that silly serving work to others. I'm not taking advantage if they voluntarily do it all, right? And the temptation to feel slightly superior lurks just below the surface. So maybe I'm not such a great role model after all. Jesus commends faith. Maybe the rest is just window dressing.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you keep the balance on Jesus and His grace, rather than our personalities or activities, you will do well. Many things are a matter of emphasis. Keep the main focus on the gospel and subordinate points will fall into the proper order.

 

I have no particular insight into this passage. Just the basic principle that the Gospels are about Jesus. He is the star of the show and the other people are supporting actors. So make the conclusion about Him rather than them.

 

This may be a rabbit trail but it may provide a helpful perspective. It is my basic gripe about women's studies. I don't think there are particular women's Bible passages or men's Bible passages. The whole Bible is for the whole Church. For example, we look at this passage which features two women and we think, this must say something to us *as women*. And like any good story, there is conflict, so we have a positive example and a negative example. The conclusion is obvious, be like the the positve example and avoid the negative example. See? Even Jesus agrees with that.

But here is the rub. Personally, I am much more a "Mary" than a "Martha". I would much rather sit on my butt and listen to a discussion of ideas than be in the kitchen fixing the cookie trays. So I'm golden, right? The problem is, I know my own heart. Yes, I am interested in "spiritual things", but I am also lazy and perfectly willing to leave all that silly serving work to others. I'm not taking advantage if they voluntarily do it all, right? And the temptation to feel slightly superior lurks just below the surface. So maybe I'm not such a great role model after all. Jesus commends faith. Maybe the rest is just window dressing.

:iagree: I like this. I believe the whole point is that Jesus is the most important "thing." Not that the other "things" are not important at all.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's difficult to tell who two people really are when you get snippets of their lives. We can get lessons from them, but to characterize each woman from the experiences they have in one day is unfair. And I think might make a good point in any Bible study about them. We live in a culture that likes giving out little bits of our lives(usually just the really cleaned up, good parts!) and hoping others only see us that way. In the Bible, it's that way because they are not the "main characters" as it were.

 

That's not to say we can't learn from them, of course! It's just good to keep in mind about them. I sometimes get in the mindset of those people in the Bible were so much holier or better or something than I am, but they were just people, too.I think it's also good to see where else they are mentioned in the Bible, as in John 11 where their brother has died.

 

And I'm not sure I have all the pieces right here and I rambled a lot, but felt like getting these thoughts out. I pray your retreat is a success in learning and growing closer to God.

 

ETA:I also like where someone said the focus needs to be on Jesus and his grace. If we look at it from his perspective, he really LOVED this family a lot and wanted the best for them. I think that's always a good thing to come back to.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have time to read other responses, but I actually would not characterize the women that way at all.  

 

I think of Martha's virtue as a get-it-done person, but she became so immersed in her earthly tasks and responsibilities that she had a hard time just settling down at the feet of Jesus. 

 

Mary, on the other hand, was able to choose to settle down and pick the spiritual over the earthly, at least at that moment in time. (Maybe she was a scatterbrain, though, right? we just don't know!)

 

The whole point of the passage really isn't that Martha is wrong and Mary is right, or anything about the women's individual personality types--I think--but rather that our eyes, no matter what tasks we need to accomplish in our day (and hey, Martha was totally doing what needed to be done--meals have to be prepared!) have to be on Jesus, He has to be first.  This is across the board, no matter what our individual personalities are like.  

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would it be possible to have the talk be about Jesus and how he is shown to have handled two different people, rather than psychoanalyzing two women based on assumptions the story doesn't support?  We could speculate about "times I'm drawn away and what makes me draw close" rather than guess about Martha and maligning her character to fit our worst behaviors (or those of "women we know but won't name"). 

 

To be honest, Jesus sort of makes me uncomfortable in this story, perhaps because I'm reading into it based on a lifetime of assumptions. 

 

 

 

Your first paragraph is what I was thinking.  The idea that Martha was bitter doesn't fit with me.  She was just being "herself" and also in line with what society expected.  Not bitter.

 

The second part though....I love Jesus in this story!  His response was so freeing, I thought.  He was so amazing to women in general, treating them like human beings, and now freeing them from the societal (and "self") expectations.  No, you don't have to "do it all" and "serve everyone all the time".  Sometimes it is ok and even important to feed yourself first.  Wow!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole chapter is very interesting.

The beginning starts with the idea that there is work, but the laborers are few.

This sets the whole idea of a "Martha" working for the Lord being wrong - makes me happy to know my serving isn't bad - since I've gotten that idea through culture about Martha.  Busy, take initiative women feel guilty when they hear this.

Then there is a prayer by Jesus and some trying comments from a lawyer trying to justify himself.

Jesus sets the priority of what we have to "do" (again, work vs faith thread potential) and then we see the Good Samaritan story.

 

In the midst of that, Jesus warns the disciples about being prideful for their work and reminds them He was there when Satan fell.

 

I can't help but think pride is being spoken about and keep asking myself HOW does that correlate with Martha and Mary right after all mentioned above.

Just thinking out loud.

 

Thanks, Danae, I can see how you would gather that from what I've said.  Not quite what I was hoping to do but without going into it all - and how I hope to focus on the sitting at His feet more than anything...I will say thank you so much for your insight.  So helpful and very much welcomed.

 

MFG - If I can manage to have that come across, it will be beneficial time spent for all of us indeed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haven't read the other replies:

 

Martha: Loved to serve others. That's a great thing. However, sometimes there are better ways of serving. It;s so easy to get off track into doing lots of Good things that aren't necessarily God things.

 

Mary: Wanted to be with Jesus. Perhaps she had a reputation for having her head in the clouds?

 

One thing that we mustn't forget is that there may have been history or background between the 2 women that shouldn't be ignored.

 

"There's Mary. Leaving all the work to me...Again."

 

"Martha...what a bossy pants. I'm going to sit right here and listen to Jesus."

 

I hate the comparison of one woman=bad and the other good. I think they both had strengths and weaknesses that would need to be overcome.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"This story is far too often used not as Good News but as a way to criticize women, women's work, women's attitudes, and women's hearts.  "

Danae - "ain't nobody got time for that"  :)  I hate that too.  Who wants to sit under a speaker who is going to beat them up?  It is quite a balance to talk about something without bringing condemnation.  We women pick that up and run with it all on our own.  We don't need anyone heaping it on.  

 

I'm hoping Jesus through the Holy Spirit will be doing the correcting, not me.

 

Dear Lord, let me not do that!

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My mom always thought Martha got a bad rap - it always seems to turn into "doing = bad, being still = good".  I thought of her when I read a new perspective on that story, in a book on spirituality (Grace Upon Grace, by John Kleinig), and she'd appreciated me passing it on.  This post reminded me of that.  The author said that the issue with Martha wasn't that she was busy preparing food or that she was failing to sit at the feet of Christ like Mary - but that she yielded to anxiety, that she was annoyed with Mary. He maintains that they were both engaged in meditation - Mary by listening to Jesus and Martha by cooking for Him - because the core of Christian meditation is nothing more or less than focusing on Christ. Martha's problem came in when she lost her focus on Christ - *that* was the most needful thing. The author concludes that whether we are activists like Martha or contemplatives like Mary, Jesus must be the focus of our meditation; anything else is distraction.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Luke 10 passage opens with insight into Martha's character, as a woman of faith and generosity: "As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him." (Luke 10:38)

 

When describing the characters of Martha and Mary, don't forget to compare this passage with John chapter 11. In some ways, the events of this chapter show the two sisters' interactions with Jesus to be almost the reverse from the John 10 passage. And what a tribute to Martha's character and faith -- besides Peter (in Matthew 16:16), Martha is the only person recorded in the Bible to directly acknowledge Jesus as the Savior and the Son of God: "She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world" (John 11:27, KJV).

 

Her profession of faith also beautifully fulfills Jesus' earlier prophesy about the events around Lazarus' illness/death: "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby." (John 11:4, KJV)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must say though, in my defense, lol...Martha could be a "busybody" according to this definition by urban dictionary, lol.

"The kind of person you just want to punch in the mouth for being so xx annoying. They have no life and way too much time on their hands. They frequently use their excessive amount of time to annoy and monitor others, taddletale for small meaningless xxx, butt into everybody's business except their own, and spy on people as if they think they are a cop or an important person or something. 

...

Busy bodies are usually self-righteous hypocrites that are quick to point out the faults in others but get defensive when you point out theirs."

This does fit her...don't you think?

 

No, I see no basis for that at all. It comes across as judgmental. Though Martha is not here to be hurt by it, I think it's wise to be cautious because others who hear judgment toward a person in the Bible may make the assumption that they could also be judged by you. I'm wondering if there is someone in your life whose outward actions remind you of Martha in the story and who is like your descriptions of Martha it's triggering all that stuff .

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean to speak more on the disdain Martha felt in her heart for Mary's conviction...and how that comes from lack of self care, lack of her own intimacy with Jesus, OR simply...being overwhelmed, drawn about in different directions and disquieted in her own mind, as Jesus says she is.  Also how all that is a good thing to seek out in ourselves and let the Lord correct.

 

So often we want to adore Him - but it can't be forced.  HOWEVER it can be something we become aware of and seek to grow in.  In seeking to grow in that, we can move toward actions that help - sitting at His feet being a priority - as well as actions we can move away from - looking at others, aiming for perfection, doing more, works vs. grace based thinking, etc.

 

I wouldn't dare add one more thing on a heavily burdened and full plate of any of the gals.  Drawing out they why's behind our behavior is part of the process of growth though, don't you think?

It's not like I shouldn't discuss it, right?

"The disdain Martha felt in her heart for Mary's conviction"

"How that comes from lack of self-care"

"Lack of her own intimacy with Jesus" 

 

I think all the above are things that can happen in our lives; however, they are not supported by the text with regards to Martha. If these things are true of yourself when you act like Martha, I think it's fine to say so and to riff off the passage. Or to ask women to consider what is going on inside themselves when they act like Martha.  However, the only thing the passage supports about Martha is your statement about what Jesus said about her (The "OR simply" part: distracted, anxious, bothered, likely from being overwhelmed. I would be cautious as a Bible teacher not being clear about what is and isn't actually in the text or supported by the text. It could cause women unnecessary guilt and become one of those "assumptions" you started out asking about.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We just discussed this in my Bible study this past week.  We looked at it from two different concepts.  I think there are many ways to look at this Bible story, and I don't think that it applies only to women.

 

First, as Christians (men and women), how often do we do things to prove we are "good" Christians.  As if all those little things give us points in heaven.  Don't be foolish to think that because one does a,b,c,d all the way to z, they have any more value than one doing only x and y.  We are so busy doing what we "should" and trying to please/impress God or others, that we lose focus on what is really important.

 

Second, it illustrates that women are meant to be at the table of faith.  Our place is right next to Jesus and the men, the message is for us too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I don't see Martha as a busy body that I want to punch in the mouth. That is a bizarre take on that passage IMO.

 

I see her as overwhelmed with her responsibilities and wondering if anyone cares. I see Jesus telling her, gently, to slow down and be still and not to let her worries consume her to the point of bitterness.

 

The point of the story is not to make us all feel superior to Martha or make us want to be Mary, but rather to see what Jesus has to teach us about our own hearts in view of what both of them did.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...