Rewards/Consequences for completing work (or not)

[AnniePoo]

I'm going to be granting my kids some independence on when to complete daily assignment starting next week.  To make this run smoothly, I need some way to help them comply and not just completely blow things off.  What are some reasonable rewards for finishing on time (or consequences for not).  I'm prefer it not be related to screen time, junk food, or money.  But at this point I can't think of a single thing that doesn't fall in that category.

[SparklyUnicorn]

How old are they?

 

 

[Χά�ων]

What Wendy said, how old are they?

[Petrichor]

I send mine outside or give him specific privileges outside. Eg. If you don't do your math you can't ride your bike - or - you can't play outside of our yard.

 

On a day that I expect him to be rather unenthusiastic about school, I let him pick the order of his subjects and try to bribe him with a fun outing - zoo, mall, pet store, panera, park, craft store.

 

I reread your post.I'm assuming you have upper elementary aged kids?

 

You could do something like, if you finish your work all week, you get to go to the zoo,( or trampoline park, or farmers market). If not, you stay home with other parent.

 

Or, for every assignment or day of work you don't complete, you get an extra chore. Cleaning the baseboards, scrubbing the fan blades, scrubbing the area under the sink, wiping table and chair legs, etc.

[EKS]

Lunch.  Play time.  Attending fun activities.  Dinner.  That sort of thing.

 

[MEmama]

I'm guessing you are trying to build internal motivation? In that case, I wouldn't link schoolwork with external life. The reward is a job completed (hopefully well); the consequence is having to do it over until it's satisfactory.

 

But I guess it comes down to how old your kids are, and why you are asking them to do something they might not be ready for?

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree with the others, this seriously depends on the age and maturity of your kids.  How old are they?  What are they expected to do each day?

[AnniePoo]

This is mainly for an 8.5yo.  She will be responsible for spelling, math, facts practice, copywork, and a Daily Gram.  It should take less than an hour and I am giving her 2.5 to complete it.  I'm so sick of prodding her all day and she's a fairly independent child so I'm going to give this a try for a time.  I feel like I have nothing to lose.  

 

Does it seem like a bad idea to assign more work for failure to complete the rest?  

 

I do have 3 other children at home and I can't it rewards like going to the zoo based on her performance or she'll ruin everyone's day.

 

I appreciate the ideas!

 

[AimeeM]

Lunch.  Play time.  Attending fun activities.  Dinner.  That sort of thing.

You take away meals for not completing school work?

[MinivanMom]

Why is it taking her 2.5 hrs to complete 1 hr of work? Is she getting off track . . . staring at the wall . . . wandering off?

 

With an 8.5 yr old, I would take the opposite approach. She clearly needs more supervision and assistance, not less. I would schedule an hour a day where I can give her 100% of my attention, and then I would sit right beside her and cheerfully keep her on track. Then I would point out that she finished her work quickly today, because she worked so diligently. I would repeat for however many weeks or months it took to get things back on track.

 

For the record, I think 8.5 is too young to be expected to work independently. I think my kids are pretty responsible, but I've never had an 8-yr-old that wouldn't go off track if I left the room to take care of something else. Around 9-10 is when the independence thing has really clicked for my kids, but they still work quicker and more diligently when I'm in the room with them.

[lllll]

..

[dirty ethel rackham]

8.5 is really too young to be expected to be doing 1 hour's worth of work efficiently unsupervised. Some may be able to do it, but I would not say that is expected for all kids that age.   When my oldest was that age, I usually sat down with him first while the middle played with the youngest.  We would get the hardest subject out of the way.  Then, I would give a short assignment (like 15 minutes worth) and set a timer - clearly explaining the expectations of what needed to be done in that 15 minutes.  I would move on to the next kid and work and then give a short assignment as well.  I ended up playing "kid pinball" bouncing from kid to kid to kid, but we managed to get our work done so that we could go do our other fun things.  The day took longer than if I were working with one child.  Gradually, I could expect more independent work for longer stretches, but it took time, planning, and lots of setbacks.  I basically checked in with them between each assignment to make sure it was done correctly (to prevent reinforcing the wrong thing and to avoid wasting time for both of us on unclear expectations.)  The timer and a list was my friend, but I did have to keep him focused. 

[AnniePoo]

Why is it taking her 2.5 hrs to complete 1 hr of work? Is she getting off track . . . staring at the wall . . . wandering off?

 

With an 8.5 yr old, I would take the opposite approach. She clearly needs more supervision and assistance, not less. I would schedule an hour a day where I can give her 100% of my attention, and then I would sit right beside her and cheerfully keep her on track. Then I would point out that she finished her work quickly today, because she worked so diligently. I would repeat for however many weeks or months it took to get things back on track.

 

For the record, I think 8.5 is too young to be expected to work independently. I think my kids are pretty responsible, but I've never had an 8-yr-old that wouldn't go off track if I left the room to take care of something else. Around 9-10 is when the independence thing has really clicked for my kids, but they still work quicker and more diligently when I'm in the room with them.

 

She's not working independently now.  I'd like to get her more independent and I think she would like that too.  I am giving her 1 hr of work and 2.5 hours to complete it.  I've never tried this.  I think she'd do better with ownership of the schedule (think Self-Propelled Advantage).

 

But basically, yes, she is a dreamer.  When I sit with her, she is getting off track and frankly I don't have time to deal with her nonsense anymore.  When she puts her mind to something, she can zip through it.  I'm experimenting next week to see if that will translate into better school output...and fewer grey hairs for me. 

[AnniePoo]

She isn't taking 2.5 hours to finish 1 hr of work.  She's not working independently now.  I'd like to get her more independent and I think she would like that too.  I am giving her 1 hr of work and 2.5 hours to complete it.  I've never tried this.  I think she'd do better with ownership of the schedule (think Self-Propelled Advantage).

 

But basically, yes, she is a dreamer.  When I sit with her, she is getting off track and frankly I don't have time to deal with her nonsense anymore.  When she puts her mind to something, she can zip through it.  I'm experimenting next week to see if that will translate into better school output...and fewer grey hairs for me. 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

My kids work off of a checklist but even at 11 and 14 there are still some things that I need to sit near them for.

 

If she is a day dreamer type then she may need more physical activity or a change of pace every 15-20 minutes to stay focused.  8.5 is still quite young.  Maybe give her a checklist of the things she is expected to do so she sees what is expected of her, then have her work through one thing with you for a set amount of time.  Let her check off that thing then get up and do something more physical for 15 minutes, like a chore (keep it light and encourage her) or something else she could maybe help you with, then have her return to work for a while on her own with whatever you think she can truly do independently, but again keep those sessions short.  

 

Once she is done with that thing, let her take a snack break or paint or build something with legos or whatever.  Then have her return to her work.  Cycle through in this way.  Is it work?  Yes.  Is it a pain when you have other kids that need you?  Yes.  But she is still very young.  Expecting complete independence for an hour or more while she tried to stay focused on her own seems fairly unrealistic for most kids at that age, especially the dreamer types.  She also may get really lonely just sitting by herself.  

 

What about teacher instruction?  When do you actually teach the material?  Could you make that more physical, more of a team effort where you show her something then she tries to teach it back to you?  It might help her stay more engaged.  Maybe even have her help instruct the other kids, maybe with game type things.  That might also boost her confidence...

 

Hugs and best wishes....

[AnniePoo]

I teach at other times.  The things I listed above are independent.  And yes, I would give her a checklist and be available for any help that's needed.  I don't care if she works at the kitchen table or in her room.  

 

I'm surprised so many people are against this.  Does everyone here sit with each child 100% of the time?  

[Lang Syne Boardie]

She's not working independently now.  I'd like to get her more independent and I think she would like that too.  I am giving her 1 hr of work and 2.5 hours to complete it.  I've never tried this.  I think she'd do better with ownership of the schedule (think Self-Propelled Advantage).

 

But basically, yes, she is a dreamer.  When I sit with her, she is getting off track and frankly I don't have time to deal with her nonsense anymore.  When she puts her mind to something, she can zip through it.  I'm experimenting next week to see if that will translate into better school output...and fewer grey hairs for me. 

 

MinivanMom is right -- in the experience-won opinion of most of us who have been doing this for decades, you are going in the exact wrong direction. Get closer to your child instead of moving farther away.

 

If she can't stay on track with you sitting next to her, there is probably very little chance she can do it on her own. I know you "don't have time to deal with her nonsense" but when we homeschool grammar stage children we are saying that we DO have time. Not to deal with nonsense, but to ensure that our children learn. My opinion is that leaving her with her homework, even for an hour, is just as nonsensical as the silly way she is responding to the pages while you sit there. You need to be her teacher until she has internalized both motivation and skill to learn on her own.

 

Your options are not these:

 

A. Sit there, growing ever more frustrated, as she twirls her pencil and stares into space.

 

B. Leave her with it, tell her you're coming back in an hour, and punish her if she fails.

 

I wouldn't do either of those. Not with such a young child. No, the other option is to teach her. You'll be teaching several things beyond just the lesson in the book -- you'll be teaching her to study. This is so worthwhile, and not a phase to skip.

 

She must learn to "attend." This means she must learn to pay total attention, and you also must pay total attention, until the lesson is done. "Staying engaged" is a more modern way of putting it. Better five minutes of total and effective concentration than an hour of dawdling. When you can consistently get five minutes, slowly increase the time.

 

How to teach:

 

1. Teach the lesson. Briefly, cheerfully, interestingly, while keeping good eye contact with your daughter. Keep her attention.

 

2. Next, model the response you wish to see from her (making sure she is able, and that what you're asking of her is effective pedagogy in the first place). Show her, while keeping her attention the whole time, how to solve the math problem, diagram the sentence, narrate the history account, recite the Latin, sketch the flower.

 

3. Require the (age-appropriate) response. Don't leave her with it, even if you think she can do it. Be there. Provide instant feedback and encouragement. Coach in the moment. Some people will sit at their child's elbow. I prefer to stand with the child at the blackboard, whenever possible, because I have wiggly boys who think best on their feet. Do the first problem, then the next, then the next.

 

4. Watch your child for signs of fatigue. She may get distracted or complain for two common reasons: The first being that your lesson has gone on too long; the next most likely being that she's mastered it and doesn't need any more practice today (although she'll need review tomorrow).

 

5. End the lesson, and let her know she is done. Make it very clear that the "time to attend" is over and she is dismissed to play/get a snack/run outdoors/doodle/read a book. Mild and brief praise is appropriate.

 

Once you start interacting this way, a new normal will soon be created in your homeschool. The questions of whether we'll study and whether we'll pay attention are answered, quite finally. The next question of how we will study -- whether at the blackboard or on the couch, whether at the table making a notebooking page or reciting conjugations on the swings in the backyard -- is a far more interesting question. Variety is good. Stretching the "how" skills is wonderful. You will see results.

 

Sending her off with her books and then punishing her if she fails (or even rewarding her when she does manage it) will not bring you the results you want. I hope you can see that now. We've all had to learn these lessons! Every one of us. You're not alone.

[SparklyUnicorn]

You take away meals for not completing school work?

 

I'm wondering the same thing!

[go_go_gadget]

Have you discussed it with her? I find mine are more likely behave in mature way if I treat them as if they're mature. I started grad school in September and we sat down to have a talk about how I needed to be really efficient with my time, and if they wanted to continue homeschooling, I'd need them to be more self-directed. We talked about how to structure our days and made a plan, and it's worked out very well. They helped design the plan, and so they feel a sense of shared ownership over it. We're at the point now that on days that I need to study and can't do anything with them (usually once/week), they have a set of things they can do on their own (some individually, some together), and they do it entirely without me. 

[kchrrs]

With my 12 year old he has a schedule and if he finishes his work prior to the alloted time being over he is free to do as he pleases until the next scheduled task. He is, of course, also allowed to move on as desired so he can end school early.

This usually works. However, should he not finish within the time set he must continue working until he is done which eats into his next section and potential free time. Occasionally, he has been working until late in the evening, but usually he is quite motivated and finishes well within his time limit.

This is what I found works for him.

[OneStepAtATime]

Do I sit with my kids all the time?  Not 100% of the time, no, and I never have had to 100%, but little children usually need more interaction and even pre-teens and teens still sometimes need that., although not nearly as much as when they were little.  

 

Tibbie has some extremely valid points and suggestions.  Punishing or rewarding when expectations are not developmentally sound for your child will not net the results you want.  I wish it were as simple as that.  I totally understand your frustration and your goals/desires.  

 

Honestly, just sitting and doing what amounts to a bunch of clerical work for an hour or more isn't very stimulating for a child's brain and it can make it hard to focus and retain the information, especially for dreamer types.  Keeping sessions shorter for the material they have to sit to do can help with retention and focus, but also interacting with them can also help with retention and focus.  I think Tibbie has some excellent suggestions.  Hugs.  I know this is frustrating.  

 

Best wishes...

[AnniePoo]

Mulling this over...

 

 

[lllll]

..

[SparklyUnicorn]

I agree too young.  I sit with my kids.  Only rarely can I get away with not doing that.  My 13 year old is more independent, but I have to help with him managing his time.  The 9 year old, forget it. 

 

I find either way when I've done rewards/punishments for anything that rewards work the best.  When they are young they will often feel happy by really little things like stickers or some small trinket.  My older kid I often offer money for a long term goal. 

 

 

[LaughingCat]

I am going to disagree with the advice to be more on top of her.  My own DD can be very distracted and for many things still needs me to be right there or very close by or she takes hours at it-- but for certain others, especially worksheety or computer stuff  (copywork, math facts, typing practice, daily gram, various worksheets and review sheets) she has always done far better doing them on her own.   Usually (but not always) it is the more mindless stuff so I just 'test out' something if I think it will be better done on her own.    I definitely can't just hand her anything though -- for example, this does not work well with math here -- and I didn't start out with an hour's worth of work but worked up (started at about 20 min I believe when she was 8).  I did start out with giving her several things though -- so she had choice/independence in what order to do those things. 

 

However even now she still struggles with self initiating -- so I still don't let her decide when she will do it (I've tried that now and again but so far it has always failed after a few days at most).   I just say "here is what I want you to do: <list everything and/or hand her worksheets>, after you finish you're free until <time>" and she can do it in whatever order she likes.  And now and then she says "I did <something on the list that's there every time like typing practice> this morning" then I say "great! mark that off your list".   With this method, as long as I'm careful what I give her, I have never had to give her any kind of reward or discipline and 98% of the time she finishes the work much more quickly and well than if I sat with her (and no nagging from me and no whining/complaining from her).  

 

I know some kids would not do better with this method and would need more oversight instead of less if they were acting dreamy/distracted (including this same DD for certain subjects)-- but for a kid who wishes to be more independent, I think it can be a very useful way to give them some independence.

[JumpyTheFrog]

My 3rd grader, who is a distractable boy, has gotten gradually more independent. This has mostly happened by me giving him something he doesn't need help on, and then me going to the bathroom or to check something somewhere else. Over the course of this school year, he has become able to sometimes complete maybe half his work without me there. It isn't consistent and some days he's more motivated than others. I am generally at the table with him, but now he can often keep himself on track for a while at the kitchen table while I do dishes. He has a few subjects that we always do together and others, like math, than go better if I am there to calm him down.

 

I enjoyed "The Self-Propelled Advantage", but often felt as though the author had unusually independent, responsible kids. I would suggest you make this a multi-year process. Start out with some easy subject, like copywork or coloring or something, and then once she is part way done, "go check on something" for two minutes. If she continues to work while you are gone, gradually increase how long you are gone, but try it for the easiest subjects. Make a goal, perhaps that after a year of this, she can do her three shortest, easiest subjects without you. Kids don't go from needing a parent at the table all the time to mostly independent in a year or two.

[pehp]

I agree w/ Tibbie & Minivan.  

 

As for the self-propelled advantage, it's a nice goal, that's for sure! But rewarding with treats or punishing by removing privileges is just implementing external rewards.  To be truly self-propelled, I think a child/teen/adult must have an internal motivation.  The carrots of a reward system undermine this. Just my opinion, and everyone is different!

[Coco_Clark]

My 7 year old started daily independent work (30-45 minutes, half of which is reading) at 6 and a half.

 

It's assigned at 1 (the end of our school day). If he finishes it by himself, he can do whatever he likes (aka screen time, let's be honest). If he does not finish it by himself, we work on it together at the end of the day (4 or 5).

 

I just presented it to him as, "hey, I have to go do other things now, clean, take care of littles, ect. This is everything we still need to get done today. Once you've done it, your time is yours." Until its finished, though, his time is NOT his. Just like he knows I can't relax in front of a movie until my work is done, and his dad can't play video games until his workday is done- neither can he. If I find its 4:30 and he hasn't finished, or even started its, "hey, let's get that checklist done so we can enjoy our night."

 

Caveats:1. I have been known to reward myself with screens, with food, with coffee ect to get my own housework done. So external rewards seem natural to me ;) I suppose I always thought of it more along the lines of the "finish your work before you play" life lesson.

 

2. My kid is probably on the independent side. He is fully capable of focused attention in a way my current 5 year old might not hit until 12.

 

3. The checklist is in no way actual teaching. It's very straightforward like read this book, do this copywork, a math fact drill sheet or easy review, make a nature journal entry, ect. The entire point of the checklist is learning to start and finish work Independently, not to be self teaching.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I am going to disagree with the advice to be more on top of her.  My own DD can be very distracted and for many things still needs me to be right there or very close by or she takes hours at it-- but for certain others, especially worksheety or computer stuff  (copywork, math facts, typing practice, daily gram, various worksheets and review sheets) she has always done far better doing them on her own.   Usually (but not always) it is the more mindless stuff so I just 'test out' something if I think it will be better done on her own.    I definitely can't just hand her anything though -- for example, this does not work well with math here -- and I didn't start out with an hour's worth of work but worked up (started at about 20 min I believe when she was 8).  I did start out with giving her several things though -- so she had choice/independence in what order to do those things. 

 

However even now she still struggles with self initiating -- so I still don't let her decide when she will do it (I've tried that now and again but so far it has always failed after a few days at most).   I just say "here is what I want you to do: <list everything and/or hand her worksheets>, after you finish you're free until <time>" and she can do it in whatever order she likes.  And now and then she says "I did <something on the list that's there every time like typing practice> this morning" then I say "great! mark that off your list".   With this method, as long as I'm careful what I give her, I have never had to give her any kind of reward or discipline and 98% of the time she finishes the work much more quickly and well than if I sat with her (and no nagging from me and no whining/complaining from her).  

 

I know some kids would not do better with this method and would need more oversight instead of less if they were acting dreamy/distracted (including this same DD for certain subjects)-- but for a kid who wishes to be more independent, I think it can be a very useful way to give them some independence.

 

I don't think you are disagreeing.  I think you have figured out the needs of your individual kid and what works best for her.  It's hard to give advice.  I think people are just saying it is not unusual for a younger kid to need someone nearby or it's not unusual for younger kids to be lousy at focusing. 

[Mommy22alyns]

For ODD, it's simple consequences.  If she does not finish her work by a certain time, she must miss gymnastics in order to finish her work.  Interestingly, she's never had to miss gymnastics to finish her work.

 

Of course, the difference is that she's almost 12.

[SparklyUnicorn]

For ODD, it's simple consequences.  If she does not finish her work by a certain time, she must miss gymnastics in order to finish her work.  Interestingly, she's never had to miss gymnastics to finish her work.

 

Of course, the difference is that she's almost 12.

 

Stuff like this does not work for my kids. They don't care about missing stuff.  I care because I'm paying for it!

[Mommy22alyns]

Stuff like this does not work for my kids. They don't care about missing stuff.  I care because I'm paying for it!

 

 

The depths of her obsession are astounding to me!

 

It doesn't work for Sylvia except for computer time.  She was the kid who wouldn't fall for the, "See you later, bye!" trick of getting her to leave a store.  She'd barely glance at us!

[LaughingCat]

I don't think you are disagreeing.  I think you have figured out the needs of your individual kid and what works best for her.  It's hard to give advice.  I think people are just saying it is not unusual for a younger kid to need someone nearby or it's not unusual for younger kids to be lousy at focusing. 

It is not just that I know my child and she's the independent sort.    Quite the opposite -- she was (and is) a child that gets off track, distracted, dreaming, unfocused-- for the stuff I originally gave her to do independently she easily could spend an hour or more doing 20 minutes of work with me right next to her redirecting and keeping her on track.    And yet when I stepped completely out of the picture, she was able to do the work quickly and well.   And giving her independence in these things made the rest of the day go better for both of us for the things where she did still need me to be right there with her.      

 

So I am suggesting that OP try giving her DD a few things to do independently   See how it goes.  Just be prepared to take back to "mom next to you" anything that it doesn't work for (because I do agree that a younger kid often needs someone nearby helping them focus).

[Daria]

You take away meals for not completing school work?

 

I would never say "No lunch for you, you didn't do your work!"  But I have no problem saying 

 

"Finish your work and then come to the table. We're having lasagna."

 

Or

 

"What do you think we should have for dinner?  OK, Buffalo Chicken salad wraps sound good to me too!  I'll go start them.  We can eat when you're done."

 

Or

 

"Copy out your last 3 spelling words, and then we'll eat!". 

 

I should note, that I would only say this if I knew 100% that my kid could do the work within a reasonable period of time. I wouldn't tell my kid that dinner came after their English essay, when I knew they hadn't started the thing, even if I knew they'd had a week to work on it.  But I would tell them "get your topic sentence down, and then we'll eat." 

 

I should note that I say this from the perspective of a parent of a kid who can be very day dreamy, by isn't one to power struggle.  If I thought there was a chance that saying "Copy out  . . . and then we'll eat" would lead to my kid refusing to copy, I wouldn't use this strategy.

[stutterfish]

nm

[EKS]

You take away meals for not completing school work?

 

I say, "You can have lunch after you finish that exercise [that should take you 10 minutes if you don't mess around]."  Or whatever.  That's not the same as taking away meals.  

[Momto4inSoCal]

I will tell my kids they can come eat when they are done. Its only when they are purposely going slow and I know they can finish quickly if they focus. For instance last week I told dd to finish cleaning her room. It could have been cleaned it in 15min but an hour after I told her to clean it she was still sitting on the bed mad that she had to clean it so I told her she wouldn't come to the table till it was finished. Her room was cleaned by the time dinner was ready. Its one thing if they need help or are struggling to get something done, its another when they are purposely not doing it.

[Pen]

I'm going to be granting my kids some independence on when to complete daily assignment starting next week.  To make this run smoothly, I need some way to help them comply and not just completely blow things off.  What are some reasonable rewards for finishing on time (or consequences for not).  I'm prefer it not be related to screen time, junk food, or money.  But at this point I can't think of a single thing that doesn't fall in that category.

 

More independence is a good reward for handling some independence well.  It could be more independence related to school, or it could be separate like getting to ride a bike alone a little farther than before showing good independence in school work, or it could be making another decision like choosing something to do or wear....     Having more work planned and reducing it when it is well done as a reward seems to me better than adding on more if not well done. It is the same actually, but I think the Reward is more motivating than a punishment especially when it is in regard to gaining hard skills in independence and time management.

[serendipitous journey]

One idea to add to all the above: we've done well by assigning only one subject/task at a time, and then taking a short break.  Sometimes I give A. 10 - 20 minutes to do a section of work and when it is done correctly and neatly and checked by me, he plays the rest of the time.   In 3rd grade, math was very challenging and he'd get a 2-3 minute break after every problem (this worked b/c of the materials we used, in which problems were multi-step or included a set of calculations).  He sometimes skips breaks to "save" them up into a longer one. 

 

If that isn't working and he's dallying I will let him know work unfinished after the time will be "homework" -- to be done just before or after dinner, which this child detests.   He's only actually gotten homework two or three times in the last year.  He also can get rid of his "homework" by completing other tasks quickly and using the time to work on what was left undone. 

 

Essentially I'm trying to train him to "work hard, play hard."  I want him to internalize focusing on a task and doing it well and promptly, and also internalize taking rests and having guilt-free fun interspersed in his day.  Oh: if I've misjudged an assignment and he is working hard for all the time, I do extend it, and I try to maintain an encouraging and friendly spirit.